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On May 25 2011 10:39 Medrea wrote:
The ESRB rating of the game is T for Teen so technically no one can complain if the casting of the game stays at the teen level since lil kids shouldn't even be watching the game to begin with. Yeah I want e-sports to grow, but the game is still about killing people in mass quantities remember?
Also Day9 daily is extremely family friendly.
as hard as day 9 tries to keep it clean he often gets very excited about what he is talking about and he ends up saying fuck etc.
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In a PG 13 movie they are allowed to say Fuck twice. So, daily is still fine.
Also a lot of people are getting offtopic when they argue stuff like "Well my kids see more guts or whatever on the WB" and thats for another thread. Topic of thread is about maturity level of casting. I believe that casters should not be forced to limit there content to below what the ESRB standard is anyway. If they can, great. If they have to go into M for mature rating land then an advisory beforehand would be perfect.
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As a caster, player, and stream-watcher, I completely understand. My take on casting is that it never hearts to self-sensor. I feel like everyone can express themselves effectively without using harsh language. Not matter how I talk outside of casting, I prefer to take the safe bet when I do.
For the larger leagues and more popular casters, they're in the light much much much more than I am. When you are in the public's eye, you just have to make sure to act a certain way.
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I think that the casters could do themselves all a big favour to bring a higher level of professionalism to the table when they're casting. While I don't see what the point is of trying to keep your 8 and 12 year olds from hearing cuss words they probably already use regularly when you're not around, it's unprofessional. While I don't personally mind, I understand that it's something that will hold back the growth of e-sports.
I have to wonder, how often do the Korean commentators swear or use inappropriate jokes in their casts? I'll bet that number is close to 0.
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I agree with the OP keep things relatively PG rated. A good rule of thumb is that profanity is unprofessional same goes for the sexual innuendos. Using curse words is something that you do among friends and people that you know, should be used around people of mixed company, I mean that's just standard manners.
If eSports are going to get more popular, casters and the people affiliated with them, are going to have to be aware of what they are saying on air. But when they are off air, I don't really care what they say.
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It's unprofessional and will make people not take esports seriously
It should be kept relatively clean
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Why do so many people want esports to be all professional and serious (often times this means boring) at the expense of some of the fun and sillyness of it?
I mean it is a game and as such enjoyment and fun should be a the main priority.
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GSL is clean (minus whenever Jinro is on), and has the most popular casting duo.
I have nothing against bad words or sexual jokes - they can certainly be entertaining. But, as an adult, especially when I'm watching a big tourney, I'd rather the casters are professional.
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Its guns that kill people, not strong language or nudity.
Set you premise right in the land of freedom.
And btw. SC2 is rated T by the ESRB, how come your 8 year old kid is allowed to watch. Think about that before trying to make a serious point.
In addition to that i question the statement, that professional casters use strong language at all.
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Doesnt the Box have a rating on it? If its rated teen. then expect anything that has to do with it to be at the teen level.
By the time a kid is a teen he knows what words mean, cursing etc. and a vast majority of kids know about sex by the time that they are that age as well.
I normally hate analogies, but if you brought your kids to the movies, and it was a movie that was rated for people older than your kids, are you going to ask the producers to change the movies that they write?
EDIT: beat by guy ahead of me,
but also i know players like huk have a "I am 18" button on their steam, because in the instance like huk, he prefers entertainment over professionalism when it comes to his desktop
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You're watching dudes get melted by acid or incinerated, yet you care more about your kids hearing how "fucking awesome" it was?
I bet you complain about tits in A Nightmare on Elms Street.
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First of all, thanks for such a level headed post. Before reading this, I always thought that it was the parent's job to censor what their kids watch, but I do agree with you. I think that casts should be family friendly, both to seek professionalism and to appeal to a wider audience. By not dropping a curse word, basically everyone gets what they want.
That being said, I think that shows like SoTG and ItG should be able to use curse words if they wish. I'm not saying its a good decision, because limiting one'sTarget audience for no reason seems like a bad idea. However, I think that the format of these talk shows is a more relaxed, friendly atmosphere. I think that the hosts need to feel like they don’t need to watch what they can say as much as normal. For this to be true, I’m willing to accept a few curse words. That being said, my ideas are not set in stone, and I can see myself changing my mind in the future.
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I agree with the OP. Cursing and sex jokes belong in the dorm, not in a professional broadcast. I don't have children but I can definitely understand wanting to keep their innocence as intact as possible for as long as possible.
Just because you can swear and joke about sex doesn't mean you should. Just because it doesn't seem very important to you doesn't mean it's like that to everyone.
By bringing up arguments about "how the game is rated T for Teen" or how "this must be an American thing" or "words don't hurt anyone" ignores the fact that by saying such things you are:
1. Being hypocritical, imposing your standards on someone else.
1A. And you're doing it in a much less polite way than the OP did. He wasn't even trying to impose his standards. He even said so! All he said he wanted was a discussion about the situation and maybe some kind of rating system for broadcasts if casters still want to use strong language and make adult jokes. He's saying, have your fun, say whatever you want, but let people know beforehand so if they don't want to hear profanity they don't have to find out when the f-bombs start dropping.
2. Probably just being a jerk for the sake of being a jerk. If it's not that important, then it's not important enough to question someone's parenting ability and/or make snide remarks about other countries.
The posts disagreeing with the OP overwhelmingly seem to be very defensive. There's nothing wrong with it (us), there's something wrong with you! He wasn't attacking anyone. There's no need to attack him. He didn't even say he thought adults swearing amongst themselves was wrong! He just said he didn't think it's right to do so where children can hear it, especially if it's going to be frequent and incendiary.
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On May 25 2011 02:32 emythrel wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2011 02:29 Joedaddy wrote:On May 25 2011 02:26 elis wrote:On May 25 2011 02:24 Joedaddy wrote:
Its not about whether or not the game is beyond her comprehension. Whatever it is that you are doing, your kid is going to want to be there with you and take part too. She doesn't really understand football but she still loves to watch the games with me every Sunday. Aside from the language used by the casters, I can not recall anything that I felt was inappropriate for her to see or hear in a SC2 1v1 match.
What about the guys killing each other? She's seen more blood and guts watching me skin deer and clean fish. And you think that messes a child up less than hearing swearing? Holy moly...... I wouldn't even want to see that. Thats where the cultural divide really shows, if you think thats ok for your child but hearing some dude say the word fuck isn't.... we have completely different ideas about what is appropriate for a child, and I would guess 99% of the people in the UK would agree with me. I'm not saying you are wrong to let your child see it, but just goes to show that whats ok in one place is completely different from another, and with the internet..... thats what you have to deal with.
Yeah, where I'm from and how I was raised hunting and fishing is a way of life. We don't kill animals just to kill them. Each year most of the men in my family donate a deer to a foundation called "hunters for the hungry" where the processed meat is used to feed the homeless and needy. Processing the meat is part of it for us. The kids almost always follow us around and hold the ice chest lid open so we can drop the quartered meat into it.
I personally am not offended by cursing and admittedly I swear more than I should when I'm out of the house and away from my family. I don't want to impose my beliefs on anyone, nor do I believe that the SC2 community is obligated to censorship.
That said, I still wish I was able to let my daughter watch SC2 tournaments with me just like we do baseball and football. Me and my wife have made a decision though not to expose her to profane language and sexually suggestive material. I don't think people are wrong for disagreeing with me, but I don't think I'm wrong either for wanting a more family friendly e-sports scene.
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This is a very interesting topic and something I will luckily not have to deal with for another couple of years. However, I agree with Chill in most regards. Livestreams/user streams should remain uncensored.
Large tournaments with big followings - GSL, TSL, IPL, NASL, MLG etc should all have some rules not allowing swear words and overt sexual references. I watch GSL the most and feel that their casts are very appropriate and aren't really a worry for child audiences. Perhaps more casters should model language after Tastosis.
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A lot of hate in this thread, I'm surprised, we should be applauding parents who expose their children to esports - recruiting youth is a essential to the survival to any major sport, and many active sporting codes invest alot of money into running teams for younger children.
I don't think it's reasonable, and I personally wouldn't like it at all if all swearing was banned, I enjoy Huk's desktops, and Day9 can be profane and fucking hilarious (BEAR SEMEN anyone?), and would hate to see them changed, these players are providing us a service and can do whatever they want on their own production.
As for NASL, TSL, GSL, they have, and do seem to be more professional, which is fine and probably needed cause they are they "major" events that people are likely to get into Starcraft, these should be friendly, and mostly are.
Also, the ESRB argument is invalid, because it clearly states that Online Interactions Not Rated by the ESRB on the box if you care to read it.
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People here seem very concerned with appearing "desirable" and "professional" in order to promote Esports. I personally do not think that Esports needs to abide the rules of other sports when it comes to commentating, My view is that SC2 commentary should suit the audience's taste and nothing else, really. If the audience enjoys and demands a certain amount of profanity, dirty jokes or whatever, so be it, there is nothing wrong with it.
Esports culture does need to be traditional sports culture. It is the customer's needs that dictate the rules in business. Forcing a certain casting style purely of the sake of "professionalism" is pointless.
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Arguments against OP
1. Restricting free speech
2. Not very important
3. There are other methods that should be implemented to protect children, especially
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_corporal_punishment)
4. The streaming medium is similar to cable and not to the standards of over-the-air method
5. Divides the community (Lamers on one side and Gamers on the other side)
6. Dishonest to the community and "selling out"
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So to those who've been following this thread...
The arguments are:
1. Stop imposing American ideals on me.
2. It's rated T for Teen, so children shouldn't watch anyways.
3. Using a more refined and appropriate vocabulary for large tournaments can ONLY help e-sports grow. The professionalism of the commentary and respect for ALL viewers will only invite more viewers. Nobody stops watching GSL because Tastosis doesn't swear enough.
My personal bias here should be obvious to anyone with respect to the growing industry we all support.
Edit: LOL, a similar post above mine. :3
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United States12607 Posts
I agree with OP for the simple reason that I am embarrassed to recommend SC2 streams to my friends because I know there's a substantial chance they'll flip on the program and hear gratuitous cursing or a second-grade-level joke.
God bless DJWheat, but the one day I tweeted to recommend TSL on my personal twitter he opened the broadcast with "What up bitches??" That is not the impression I wanted to give my friends of what the SC2 scene is like.
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EPT
