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On May 15 2011 02:50 Krehlmar wrote:
Listening to SotG and yeah there is some skewerdness but I still love this.
If foreigners feel so threatened by Koreans winning games then they're not spending as much effort or time as the Koreans and then they frankly don't deserve the fucking prizepool.
In Halo and CoD:BO MLG is mostly an all american business. Very few teams from eu and asia makes the trip. With the big US fanbase they have made US teams bigger tho the skill perhaps not is the best.
This will change with MLGs way to handle SC2, something that must threaten some US team that saw MLG as the base for US SC, like it has been for Halo and CoD.
Whit the new rules this will quickly become a EU vs. KR teams before the season ends. The only US based team with a chance is EG.
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On May 15 2011 23:19 Jiddra wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2011 02:50 Krehlmar wrote:
Listening to SotG and yeah there is some skewerdness but I still love this.
If foreigners feel so threatened by Koreans winning games then they're not spending as much effort or time as the Koreans and then they frankly don't deserve the fucking prizepool. In Halo and CoD:BO MLG is mostly an all american business. Very few teams from eu and asia makes the trip. With the big US fanbase they have made US teams bigger tho the skill perhaps not is the best. This will change with MLGs way to handle SC2, something that must threaten some US team that saw MLG as the base for US SC, like it has been for Halo and CoD. Whit the new rules this will quickly become a EU vs. KR teams before the season ends. The only US based team with a chance is EG.
Only EG? I agree that they have the HIGHEST chance but only? Root has Kiwi at least, and Fnatic has TT1/Fenix who could both do pretty well
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On May 15 2011 23:24 chipmonklord17 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2011 23:19 Jiddra wrote:On May 15 2011 02:50 Krehlmar wrote:
Listening to SotG and yeah there is some skewerdness but I still love this.
If foreigners feel so threatened by Koreans winning games then they're not spending as much effort or time as the Koreans and then they frankly don't deserve the fucking prizepool. In Halo and CoD:BO MLG is mostly an all american business. Very few teams from eu and asia makes the trip. With the big US fanbase they have made US teams bigger tho the skill perhaps not is the best. This will change with MLGs way to handle SC2, something that must threaten some US team that saw MLG as the base for US SC, like it has been for Halo and CoD. Whit the new rules this will quickly become a EU vs. KR teams before the season ends. The only US based team with a chance is EG. Only EG? I agree that they have the HIGHEST chance but only? Root has Kiwi at least, and Fnatic has TT1/Fenix who could both do pretty well
Fnatic is not a US based team. Root has kiwi, but will have fight to have more players in the top 16.
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On May 15 2011 23:27 Jiddra wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2011 23:24 chipmonklord17 wrote:On May 15 2011 23:19 Jiddra wrote:On May 15 2011 02:50 Krehlmar wrote:
Listening to SotG and yeah there is some skewerdness but I still love this.
If foreigners feel so threatened by Koreans winning games then they're not spending as much effort or time as the Koreans and then they frankly don't deserve the fucking prizepool. In Halo and CoD:BO MLG is mostly an all american business. Very few teams from eu and asia makes the trip. With the big US fanbase they have made US teams bigger tho the skill perhaps not is the best. This will change with MLGs way to handle SC2, something that must threaten some US team that saw MLG as the base for US SC, like it has been for Halo and CoD. Whit the new rules this will quickly become a EU vs. KR teams before the season ends. The only US based team with a chance is EG. Only EG? I agree that they have the HIGHEST chance but only? Root has Kiwi at least, and Fnatic has TT1/Fenix who could both do pretty well Fnatic is not a US based team. Root has kiwi, but will have fight to have more players in the top 16.
Oh.. Fnatic is listed as Americas on liquipedia so I went with that.
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On May 15 2011 23:30 chipmonklord17 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2011 23:27 Jiddra wrote:On May 15 2011 23:24 chipmonklord17 wrote:On May 15 2011 23:19 Jiddra wrote:On May 15 2011 02:50 Krehlmar wrote:
Listening to SotG and yeah there is some skewerdness but I still love this.
If foreigners feel so threatened by Koreans winning games then they're not spending as much effort or time as the Koreans and then they frankly don't deserve the fucking prizepool. In Halo and CoD:BO MLG is mostly an all american business. Very few teams from eu and asia makes the trip. With the big US fanbase they have made US teams bigger tho the skill perhaps not is the best. This will change with MLGs way to handle SC2, something that must threaten some US team that saw MLG as the base for US SC, like it has been for Halo and CoD. Whit the new rules this will quickly become a EU vs. KR teams before the season ends. The only US based team with a chance is EG. Only EG? I agree that they have the HIGHEST chance but only? Root has Kiwi at least, and Fnatic has TT1/Fenix who could both do pretty well Fnatic is not a US based team. Root has kiwi, but will have fight to have more players in the top 16. Oh.. Fnatic is listed as Americas on liquipedia so I went with that.
With the managment and and officie being in London I would say it is a EU based team. But perhaps liquipedia know something i don't.
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Lame..... placing well in MLG grants an opportunity to go to Korea to compete for 1 month at a grand prize of $1,400. Gee whizz Mister Wilson that sounds neat!!! And while these foreigners are in Korea competing for this "grand prize" are they going to be allowed to compete in other tournaments. Or is GOM going to tell them that they are not going to be allowed (if these foreigners even preform well enough to get out of their groups) to participate in other tournaments that they would like to attend as they did with Idra and Dreamhack Winter 2010? I don't think GOM really wants this. Rather it's the Korean players that want the opportunity to participate in Foreign tourneys. Got to keep the players happy.
Bottom line this is great for only MLG. To keep people purchasing stream tickets (that may or may not work), and get people intrested in seeing the Koreans own white dudes.
This doesn't benefit any foreigner imo.
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On May 15 2011 23:39 Jiddra wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2011 23:30 chipmonklord17 wrote:On May 15 2011 23:27 Jiddra wrote:On May 15 2011 23:24 chipmonklord17 wrote:On May 15 2011 23:19 Jiddra wrote:On May 15 2011 02:50 Krehlmar wrote:
Listening to SotG and yeah there is some skewerdness but I still love this.
If foreigners feel so threatened by Koreans winning games then they're not spending as much effort or time as the Koreans and then they frankly don't deserve the fucking prizepool. In Halo and CoD:BO MLG is mostly an all american business. Very few teams from eu and asia makes the trip. With the big US fanbase they have made US teams bigger tho the skill perhaps not is the best. This will change with MLGs way to handle SC2, something that must threaten some US team that saw MLG as the base for US SC, like it has been for Halo and CoD. Whit the new rules this will quickly become a EU vs. KR teams before the season ends. The only US based team with a chance is EG. Only EG? I agree that they have the HIGHEST chance but only? Root has Kiwi at least, and Fnatic has TT1/Fenix who could both do pretty well Fnatic is not a US based team. Root has kiwi, but will have fight to have more players in the top 16. Oh.. Fnatic is listed as Americas on liquipedia so I went with that. With the managment and and officie being in London I would say it is a EU based team. But perhaps liquipedia know something i don't.
He is talking about the players and you are talking about the organisation. I find it hard to believe you don't see this.
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On May 15 2011 07:56 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2011 07:01 JoeSchmoe wrote:
Incontrol neglected a lot of actual facts. Top seed gets placed into code S. All he talked about was how no one would want to go to code A. You get all expenses paid trip for an entire month. Again Incontrol brushes it off saying yeah they give you housing but the rest you are on your own. No it's not like that. In fact if you were ever interested in going to Korea, you can basically think of it as vacation for a month + starcraft. Of course if you have specific commitments like school or family this will be difficult.
It seems a lot of the argument on SOTG degenerated into a Korean vs Foreigner advantage discussion where the metric used was based on the amount of money obtainable in x period of time. Much of this was focused on Code A and how there's hardly and money in that pool. While that may be true, code S is extremely rewarding. In fact you get $1400 just for getting into ro32 which is basically just winning 2 games. This is equivalent to 4th place prize money at MLG. By getting into the semifinals you get $4800 which almost matches the 1st place prize money of MLG at $5000. If you're really confident/good you even have a shot at 1st place of $46 000 which is like getting 1st place MLG 9 times.
Basically if we consider an aggregate sum of the potential rewards for code A and code S and compare it to MLG assuming equal skill levels among all players, I think it should come out to be fairly even. Although I don't have any math to back this up, you can think of it as Code S >> MLG > Code A but u only get 1/4 spot for code S. Well I really think its really a player by player situation. For some players going to Korea for a month and playing in Code A would be worth it, but for others, even playing in Code S won't be worth it. Yes, GOM pays for everything (which is great, no doubt about that), but there is a huge opportunity cost. A lot of players in the foreign scene play in a ton of tournaments and team leagues. Being in Korea really hampers that. Then guys like iNcontroL and Idra cast and have shows they do. Being in Korea hampers that. Then a lot of pro's coach and make good money off that and being in Korea hampers that too. Not to mention they are leaving everything in their personal lives for a whole month, such as Tyler would need to leave his wife. Now if GSL would have their super tournament (and yes I know they are qualifying for the normal GSL season, just making a suggestion) be like a weekend or week long type tournament where the MLG qualifiers could come over and participate in, then it would be a much more fair exchange and much more attractive to foreign players.
I hate to say it, but playing in the GSL (especially code S) should be considered an honor. It's the most prestigious tournament on the planet. It might be an inconvenience, it might be hard to do for some, but honestly, how serious are (western) players about their SC2 careers if they're not willing to go?
Doesn't this pretty much illustrate the problem with parts of the western scene even further? You're either a professional player or you're not. If you are, I see no reason why you wouldn't go to korea and see how you measure up in the highest level competition out there. That's how it works in other sports, that's how it should work in a truly professional SC2 scene. To me, it seems like a defeatist attitude from certain players. They know they won't get far in a GSL, so heck, I might aswell stay home.
(Nah, I'm not going to the olympics, I'll miss out on more lucrative private opportunities.)
Professional teams should see the value in this too, having a player in the GSL brings huge publicity for your team and the entire foreign scene will be rooting for your guy. Time for teams to step up too in cases like this.
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On May 15 2011 23:19 Jiddra wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2011 02:50 Krehlmar wrote:
Listening to SotG and yeah there is some skewerdness but I still love this.
If foreigners feel so threatened by Koreans winning games then they're not spending as much effort or time as the Koreans and then they frankly don't deserve the fucking prizepool. In Halo and CoD:BO MLG is mostly an all american business. Very few teams from eu and asia makes the trip. With the big US fanbase they have made US teams bigger tho the skill perhaps not is the best. This will change with MLGs way to handle SC2, something that must threaten some US team that saw MLG as the base for US SC, like it has been for Halo and CoD. Whit the new rules this will quickly become a EU vs. KR teams before the season ends. The only US based team with a chance is EG.
There is almost no Halo scene outside the US. There was 1 EU team that has made it securely into MLG (Power), which is sad, because EU players are really good at esports in general. Also, CoD i a fake esport so I wouldn't worry about it being around next year
I hope that MLG becomes the world open tournament, so to speak, for sc2. I think that for next year, they will alter their format to make it more fair all around
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hey, that sounds great! cool!!
XD
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On May 16 2011 01:04 metbull wrote:
Lame..... placing well in MLG grants an opportunity to go to Korea to compete for 1 month at a grand prize of $1,400. Gee whizz Mister Wilson that sounds neat!!! And while these foreigners are in Korea competing for this "grand prize" are they going to be allowed to compete in other tournaments. Or is GOM going to tell them that they are not going to be allowed (if these foreigners even preform well enough to get out of their groups) to participate in other tournaments that they would like to attend as they did with Idra and Dreamhack Winter 2010? I don't think GOM really wants this. Rather it's the Korean players that want the opportunity to participate in Foreign tourneys. Got to keep the players happy.
Bottom line this is great for only MLG. To keep people purchasing stream tickets (that may or may not work), and get people intrested in seeing the Koreans own white dudes.
This doesn't benefit any foreigner imo.
In Code A, you compete for a chance to play in Code S, not for the prize money. Don't forget that there is 1 Code S spot for the best performance as a non-Code S player.
Also, GOM doesn't prohibit players from participating in other tournaments. Afaik, situation with Idra in Dreamhack Winter was schedule conflict which could not be resolved at the time.
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On May 16 2011 01:40 Derez wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2011 07:56 jmbthirteen wrote:On May 15 2011 07:01 JoeSchmoe wrote:
Incontrol neglected a lot of actual facts. Top seed gets placed into code S. All he talked about was how no one would want to go to code A. You get all expenses paid trip for an entire month. Again Incontrol brushes it off saying yeah they give you housing but the rest you are on your own. No it's not like that. In fact if you were ever interested in going to Korea, you can basically think of it as vacation for a month + starcraft. Of course if you have specific commitments like school or family this will be difficult.
It seems a lot of the argument on SOTG degenerated into a Korean vs Foreigner advantage discussion where the metric used was based on the amount of money obtainable in x period of time. Much of this was focused on Code A and how there's hardly and money in that pool. While that may be true, code S is extremely rewarding. In fact you get $1400 just for getting into ro32 which is basically just winning 2 games. This is equivalent to 4th place prize money at MLG. By getting into the semifinals you get $4800 which almost matches the 1st place prize money of MLG at $5000. If you're really confident/good you even have a shot at 1st place of $46 000 which is like getting 1st place MLG 9 times.
Basically if we consider an aggregate sum of the potential rewards for code A and code S and compare it to MLG assuming equal skill levels among all players, I think it should come out to be fairly even. Although I don't have any math to back this up, you can think of it as Code S >> MLG > Code A but u only get 1/4 spot for code S. Well I really think its really a player by player situation. For some players going to Korea for a month and playing in Code A would be worth it, but for others, even playing in Code S won't be worth it. Yes, GOM pays for everything (which is great, no doubt about that), but there is a huge opportunity cost. A lot of players in the foreign scene play in a ton of tournaments and team leagues. Being in Korea really hampers that. Then guys like iNcontroL and Idra cast and have shows they do. Being in Korea hampers that. Then a lot of pro's coach and make good money off that and being in Korea hampers that too. Not to mention they are leaving everything in their personal lives for a whole month, such as Tyler would need to leave his wife. Now if GSL would have their super tournament (and yes I know they are qualifying for the normal GSL season, just making a suggestion) be like a weekend or week long type tournament where the MLG qualifiers could come over and participate in, then it would be a much more fair exchange and much more attractive to foreign players. I hate to say it, but playing in the GSL (especially code S) should be considered an honor. It's the most prestigious tournament on the planet. It might be an inconvenience, it might be hard to do for some, but honestly, how serious are (western) players about their SC2 careers if they're not willing to go? Doesn't this pretty much illustrate the problem with parts of the western scene even further? You're either a professional player or you're not. If you are, I see no reason why you wouldn't go to korea and see how you measure up in the highest level competition out there. That's how it works in other sports, that's how it should work in a truly professional SC2 scene. To me, it seems like a defeatist attitude from certain players. They know they won't get far in a GSL, so heck, I might aswell stay home. (Nah, I'm not going to the olympics, I'll miss out on more lucrative private opportunities.) Professional teams should see the value in this too, having a player in the GSL brings huge publicity for your team and the entire foreign scene will be rooting for your guy. Time for teams to step up too in cases like this.
The problem with your arguement is that in other competitive scenes the pinnacle of competition is generally the most lucrative for the participants. Code A/S in Korea may not end up being the most financially rewarding for the western scene when it cuts you off from competition in Western events.
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On May 16 2011 02:33 MercuryViper wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2011 01:40 Derez wrote:On May 15 2011 07:56 jmbthirteen wrote:On May 15 2011 07:01 JoeSchmoe wrote:
Incontrol neglected a lot of actual facts. Top seed gets placed into code S. All he talked about was how no one would want to go to code A. You get all expenses paid trip for an entire month. Again Incontrol brushes it off saying yeah they give you housing but the rest you are on your own. No it's not like that. In fact if you were ever interested in going to Korea, you can basically think of it as vacation for a month + starcraft. Of course if you have specific commitments like school or family this will be difficult.
It seems a lot of the argument on SOTG degenerated into a Korean vs Foreigner advantage discussion where the metric used was based on the amount of money obtainable in x period of time. Much of this was focused on Code A and how there's hardly and money in that pool. While that may be true, code S is extremely rewarding. In fact you get $1400 just for getting into ro32 which is basically just winning 2 games. This is equivalent to 4th place prize money at MLG. By getting into the semifinals you get $4800 which almost matches the 1st place prize money of MLG at $5000. If you're really confident/good you even have a shot at 1st place of $46 000 which is like getting 1st place MLG 9 times.
Basically if we consider an aggregate sum of the potential rewards for code A and code S and compare it to MLG assuming equal skill levels among all players, I think it should come out to be fairly even. Although I don't have any math to back this up, you can think of it as Code S >> MLG > Code A but u only get 1/4 spot for code S. Well I really think its really a player by player situation. For some players going to Korea for a month and playing in Code A would be worth it, but for others, even playing in Code S won't be worth it. Yes, GOM pays for everything (which is great, no doubt about that), but there is a huge opportunity cost. A lot of players in the foreign scene play in a ton of tournaments and team leagues. Being in Korea really hampers that. Then guys like iNcontroL and Idra cast and have shows they do. Being in Korea hampers that. Then a lot of pro's coach and make good money off that and being in Korea hampers that too. Not to mention they are leaving everything in their personal lives for a whole month, such as Tyler would need to leave his wife. Now if GSL would have their super tournament (and yes I know they are qualifying for the normal GSL season, just making a suggestion) be like a weekend or week long type tournament where the MLG qualifiers could come over and participate in, then it would be a much more fair exchange and much more attractive to foreign players. I hate to say it, but playing in the GSL (especially code S) should be considered an honor. It's the most prestigious tournament on the planet. It might be an inconvenience, it might be hard to do for some, but honestly, how serious are (western) players about their SC2 careers if they're not willing to go? Doesn't this pretty much illustrate the problem with parts of the western scene even further? You're either a professional player or you're not. If you are, I see no reason why you wouldn't go to korea and see how you measure up in the highest level competition out there. That's how it works in other sports, that's how it should work in a truly professional SC2 scene. To me, it seems like a defeatist attitude from certain players. They know they won't get far in a GSL, so heck, I might aswell stay home. (Nah, I'm not going to the olympics, I'll miss out on more lucrative private opportunities.) Professional teams should see the value in this too, having a player in the GSL brings huge publicity for your team and the entire foreign scene will be rooting for your guy. Time for teams to step up too in cases like this. The problem with your arguement is that in other competitive scenes the pinnacle of competition is generally the most lucrative for the participants. Code A/S in Korea may not end up being the most financially rewarding for the western scene when it cuts you off from competition in Western events.
That's not actually true. The most prestigious events in a lot of sports are the olympics and world championships, which generally yield way lower profits per player then the regular events they attend. Thats not to say they arent financially rewarding, becaure good performance there is excellent in terms of sponsorship, contract renegotiations and things like that.
But, in most (real) sports, what players care about is their achievements, their place in history if you will. I love people like Naniwa for realizing that, and I wish that all of the SC2 scene felt that way. There's nothing wrong with saying 'I don't want to go to korea because I stand no chance there', 'I don't want to go there because it will interrupt my life too much' or 'I don't want to go because it will ruin my current financial situation', but it ruins your credibility as a professional 'sports player'.
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Plus, it's not like they'll be forcing this prize down players' throats. I'm surprised people are finding ways to not be excited about this. It'll afford players (who want it) an opportunity to prove themselves at the peak of the SC2 competitive scene, and it'll help e-sports get even bigger as it helps bring the foreigner and Korean scenes together that much more. I don't know about you, but I find the GSL a lot more exciting to watch when it has foreigners in it. I'm sure lots of other people feel similar. And I'm sure having Korean players participating over here will draw a lot of attention from the korean fanbase. And because it's only a month, and it's all paid for by MLG/GSL, is it really that big of a deal even if they don't walk away with a lot of prize money? I'm sure the experience would be worth it all its own for a lot of people. This is just win/win all around. I'm so hyped, StarCraft's future just keeps getting brighter and brighter!
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I hope if a foreigner declines the prize to join GSL that it isn't filled by the next guy down on the totem pole. I would rather see the spot unfilled then potentially someone not worthy getting a free pass because a bunch of the higher up foreigners declined it.
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So I didnt read all 50 pages so idk if its been talked about but I just started thinking, I wonder if this new program will encourage some of the members of team world to go the super tournament. Now they wouldn't have to choose (although I think only Jinro/Huk/TT1/Sen? went to MLGs out of team world but still) between the two.
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3 Lions
United States3705 Posts
big lols if Idra goes back to GSL and plays Clide again
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Any foreigner who goes to the GSL and does well has a lot more to gain than the prize money.
They have a chance to prove themselves as the best, and increase their profile greatly along the way.
In any case, I think its funny that some people are complaining that 'the koreans are going to come and take our money but we don't want to go to play in code A'.. tough luck if you arent good enough to beat them, you dont deserve to win.
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Funny how many of the same people that said there was no lag in KR to US/EU when the Koreans were losing are now saying they wouldn't go to Korea because they can't play in any of the US/EU tournaments due to unplayable lag.
Still the deal seems really one sided in MLG's favor, but I guess if it keeps the Koreans happy and playing in the GSL it works out for Gomtv
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EPT
