EPTFending off the cheesier strategies like double 6pool is sometimes actually easier in 2v2 because it becomes a 1v2 where the 1 has a massive massive advantage. You just need to know how to play it out.
2v2 and why it isn't Cheese - Page 4
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DoubleReed
United States4130 Posts
Fending off the cheesier strategies like double 6pool is sometimes actually easier in 2v2 because it becomes a 1v2 where the 1 has a massive massive advantage. You just need to know how to play it out. | ||
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infinity2k9
United Kingdom2397 Posts
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Eknoid4
United States902 Posts
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DuneBug
United States668 Posts
On May 06 2011 01:37 JustTray wrote: You realize you can spot an upper warp in by looking for if a Protoss is stacking energy on his nexus right? Also, if they don't 10p in that situation, your T partner should send his first marine out on the obvious overlord path to kill it before it gets in position. Even if you don't do any of that, a bunker near the outter pylon or half your troops near it and a couple at the wall to kill lings also counters it. I don't think sending out a marine is a reliable counter. It's very map dependant, that certainly won't work on gutterhulk/tempest/several others. And it relies on you actually finding the overlord. You also risk losing your first marine to zerglings. Making two zerglings to deny scouting is fairly standard for any zerg build. Getting them to the marine before he kills the overlord shouldn't be hard unless the zerg FE'd. As for stacking energy on his nexus that's an indicator of a 4gate, but not necessarily a 4gate zealot warp in. If you prepare for the 4gate zealot warp in, you'll be behind when a normal 4gate actually hits. And vice versa. Bunkering in front of protoss's base I wouldn't anticipate solving the problem. They just focus all their zealots / lings on the bunker. The bunker is going to go down pretty quick without any scv's to repair it. Then the next set of 4 warps into their base. By then protoss opponent will be able to warp in stalkers but after the blocking zealot gets killed it's pretty much gg, zerglings run in and kill all the probes. | ||
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JustTray
127 Posts
On May 06 2011 01:57 DuneBug wrote: I don't think sending out a marine is a reliable counter. It's very map dependant, that certainly won't work on gutterhulk. And it relies on you actually finding the overlord. You also risk losing your first marine to zerglings. Making two zerglings to deny scouting is fairly standard for any zerg build. Getting them to the marine before he kills the overlord shouldn't be hard unless the zerg FE'd. As for stacking energy on his nexus that's an indicator of a 4gate, but not necessarily a 4gate zealot warp in. If you prepare for the 4gate zealot warp in, you'll be behind when a normal 4gate actually hits. And vice versa. Bunkering in front of protoss's base I wouldn't anticipate solving the problem. They just focus all their zealots / lings on the bunker. The bunker is going to go down pretty quick without any scv's to repair it. Then the next set of 4 warps into their base. By then protoss opponent will be able to warp in stalkers but after the blocking zealot gets killed it's pretty much gg, zerglings run in and kill all the probes. 1. You said Zerg goes 15p, in that case your first marine can easily kill the overlord before lings show up. Finding the overlord is very simple. Every zerg doing warp in sends it on a direct path from their base to the nearest opponent base because it's so slow it wouldn't make it in position on most maps in time for the warp in otherwise. Edit - losing 1 marine trying to kill the overlord is actualy cheaper than losing your scouting scv because you also lose potential mining with the scv. Losing 1 marine trying to get the key overlord is always worth it. 2. Stacking energy is ONLY an indicator of a warp in. All 4 gate builds that are non-warp in will use their first 3-4 chronoboosts, always. It is better than a 95% indicator that they're going to try to proxy warp in by using 4 chronos on warpgate. If you disagree, then I agree to disagree. 3. I was referring to bunkering on the high ground in your own base where the pylon is being used to warp in. Also a bunker at the front of your own base where the lings will try to break in is also successful because you can put more forces in the spot where they will try to warp in. For protoss this is much harder and you need to block your front with a sentry and zealot, use all your chronos on getting units out as fast as possible so that you can have stalkers before they start warping in on your high ground. A two pronged warp-in/speedling attack can be countered, albeit not easily, with this method. Again, as I mentioned in a previous post, Protoss starts at a significant disadvantage in 2s. | ||
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GxZ
United States375 Posts
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andiCR
Costa Rica2273 Posts
 Thanks!BTW, the replay section on sc2ranks seems to not work for me. | ||
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Eknoid4
United States902 Posts
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FMJ
United States169 Posts
On May 05 2011 22:59 zende wrote: I like how you define cheese. "Believe it or not, those are the only things that are cheese!". Why is that? It's because you think so, right? Yeah, what about curdled and cured dairy products? I agree with the OP though. Too many RT allies try to fast expo or straight tech or cannon their own ramp and leave allies to die. This is especially frustrating because 70% of diamond RT players do this. I can't make Masters without some sort of arranged team because RT is so full of idiots. I wish more people would "understand" team games. | ||
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
The fact is pretty much ALL competitive 2v2s that the community has seen involve "early game" play which almost always decides the game right there. Having said that, I must admit that when these games get past the midgame, they are really exciting. Worth pointing out that the OP clearly plays 2v2 seriously and practices it. The people who will be doing it in these big money tournaments do not (if they are smart). | ||
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iPBioOrMech
Turkey297 Posts
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Eatme
Switzerland3919 Posts
On May 06 2011 02:54 never_toss wrote: Great thread man Thanks!BTW, the replay section on sc2ranks seems to not work for me. Just look at the top 2v2 players and click on the + Last 10 replays. Also a really great writeup. | ||
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ROOTdrewbie
Canada1392 Posts
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teekesselchen
Germany886 Posts
It forces two players to react to it instead of only one. This means even when not followed up by many lings, it will cause a certain amount of damage by potentially forcing worker cuts and spendings like that into a forge. When one enemy is missing those preperation but plays rather greedy, it can still be used aggressively, but it doesn't have to. This is how different the same build can be just because there are two opponents suffering for the price of only one ally on your own side sacrifices something. | ||
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dmillz
Canada270 Posts
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DoubleReed
United States4130 Posts
On May 06 2011 03:47 drewbie.root wrote: it's not cheese because you have to do it, but I don't think that it is very much fun to play 6 minute games, some of the strats are like stupidly strong and impossible to scout and really hard to stop if you don't scout it I completely disagree. You don't have to do cheese in 2v2. Wait, drewbie?! Is that how you got to the top of the 2v2 ladder? By cheesing your way up there? I have yet to find a strat that is incredibly powerful, hard to scout, and doesn't lead to an easily won 1v2. Personally, I think the scary strats are the ones that incredibly powerful regardless of scouting (which I guess means they aren't cheese). They are easy to scout, but the information doesn't grant you that much. | ||
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Musketeer
142 Posts
On May 06 2011 01:15 stink123 wrote: I think this post is hilarious, "I am number 1 2v2 player because I play standard and defend cheeses" Yes, it is indeed truly unfortunate that 2v2 is currently in a state where just by being somewhat competent in 1v1, 2v2 is a joke. The idea of 2v2 is really fun, but unfortunately the game isn't balanced for it, and it doesn't quite work out so well. | ||
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Juanald
United States354 Posts
.-=[*420*]=-.JuaNaLd*.*.* | ||
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PowerDes
United States520 Posts
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Neo.NEt
United States785 Posts
Yet I'm in masters in 2v2, 3v3, and 4v4 and I've never made a pool before 14 so unless you are actually in the top 100 you really have no reason to cry that it's all cheese anyway. | ||
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