EPTOn May 05 2011 08:20 FakeBoxeR wrote:
Close spawns favor terran
Cross spawns favor zerg
Close spawns favor terran
Cross spawns favor zerg
Cross spawns does not favor Zerg.
[H] ZvT rationalization on close spawn Metalopolis - Page 3
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Like a Boss
502 Posts
Cross spawns does not favor Zerg. | ||
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Blackk
South Africa226 Posts
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PhiliBiRD
United States2643 Posts
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[GiTM]-Ace
United States4935 Posts
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eloist
United States1017 Posts
In regards to that battle report writeup, well, I could reply with a bunch of 'what if's' and then you'd have plenty more 'but then's' and it wouldn't get us anywhere. You're clearly a better player than I am so I'll back off now. | ||
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Snookemz
Australia26 Posts
This forces to the Zerg to expand further away thus opening themselves up to drops and especially multi pronged drops. The terran has such an easy push from his third into the zergs natural with tanks on high ground and the ability to pull back to the PF for extra defense if the push is failing. The OP is spot on. Cross positions don't favour the zerg, it just makes things even. | ||
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loveeholicce
Korea (South)785 Posts
On May 05 2011 08:38 FabledIntegral wrote: Is it really that hard to understand? Really? Do you not understand those are at different timings in the game? Here, I'll spell it out for you. Terran opens 2 rax aggression vs Zerg. If by some godsend Zerg holds it off without any drone casualties (I'll assume then Terran has no SCV casualties), he still has not more than 17 drones mining until the aggression stops, and is still forced to place a spine. Speed will not be done for a bit, and during this time, Terran expands freely. This is the most optimal situation for a Zerg, and occurs less than 20% of the time. Then, Zerg pumps drones after the spine, while Terran expos, now Zerg is starting to gain a worker advantage, and decides to high econ baneling bust. Zerg dumps a shitton of gas into banelings, and thus consequently stays on hatchery tech. While this is happening, Terran is teching up to siege mode, and is building bunkers to defend this baneling bust. Under an ideal scenario, the timing to hit with the bust happens just before the siege tank gets siege mode. Cool, but we run into bunkers, and as you say, we turn back and "light contain." But now the siege tank is out, and in siege mode, and another is incoming, and the second factory is building. You JUST started your friggin' lair tech. Stim hasn't finished yet, but who cares, he's not moving out, yet. By the time your lair finishes, he starts moving towards your base with ~3 tanks and a bunch of marines (with stim done now), combat shields on the way, and reaches your base in SECONDS. Baneling speed isn't anywhere close to done, suggesting mutas is a complete and utter joke, and you're boned when he has his siege tanks hugging the upper ridge. Oh, and you can't flank, or catch him offguard before he sieges. Honestly, any time you ZvT on close spawns metal you're going to be at a big disadvantage. I agree with what you're saying, but I think the only thing you can really do is choose a strategy that will somehow minimize your disadvantage or sidestep it, or use the factors to your advantage. I like doing a 2 base baneling bust because it turns the advantage of close rush distance to my side, its a fairly powerful all in in its own right, and it side steps the issue of "i can't get a 3rd base". Your analysis is right, bunkers and correct sige timing will nullify it, but I think its just the best chance Zerg has given the circumstances. | ||
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Frozenserpent
United States143 Posts
On May 05 2011 08:11 eloist wrote: Someone explain to me how zerg automatically gets behind by building units. Given the ability to produce multiple workers at once, is there not a way to stay on even worker production footage while getting units like the other two races? Perhaps I can provide an answer for you. It's a matter of how costly production is. The ability of a hatch and queen to pump out is the same production capability as 2 rax and a CC. On two base, you get the same production as 4 rax and 2 CC, which actually isn't much, if you've played Terran. This ignores orbital, so terran gets a pretty sizable boost on top of that. This sort of means if you pump out lings:drones in the same ratio as terran pumps out marines:scv's, you're going to be behind economically, while only staying even in military at present. That economic disadvantage leads to a military disadvantage in the future. That, obviously, is not good. The answer to why zerg macro mechanics is a strength of the race is that you have the option of going completely one side. So you can massively drone pump, and then massive army pump. At first glance, it seems like it's the equivalent to building constant drone and constant army, but it's not. The earlier you have econ, the more powerful it becomes, and so even if you build the same # of drones, if you build them earlier, they will be more useful. The game is balanced around the fact that zerg has this capability. If zerg doesn't use it, obv it will be at a disadvantage (in general). | ||
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Sure you can do a 2 base all in baneling bust or something if you really want to. But 4 spread out bunkers behind the wall in will easily deflect it, if not less bunkers. Then since its such a close spawn distance the terran can just get out of his bunkers and go counter attack before you can rebuild or even take a 3rd O_o
