EPTYou can of course criticize the quality of his work, but it is a completely separate topic. Would Slasher and Gamespot be better off doing long interviews and articles rather than quick breaking news? I don't know, maybe, maybe not. There probably are studies that have been done where the value of breaking news to other types of coverage is compared. But until you reference such a study, you don't know either. And in the end it's a business strategy decision that is between Slasher and Gamespot to decide.
[Show] Inside The Game - Official Thread - Page 443
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traja
Finland1 Post
You can of course criticize the quality of his work, but it is a completely separate topic. Would Slasher and Gamespot be better off doing long interviews and articles rather than quick breaking news? I don't know, maybe, maybe not. There probably are studies that have been done where the value of breaking news to other types of coverage is compared. But until you reference such a study, you don't know either. And in the end it's a business strategy decision that is between Slasher and Gamespot to decide. | ||
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seaofsaturn
United States489 Posts
On January 18 2013 08:16 Fiallach wrote: ... Edit: after re-reading my post, i feel i was to nice with everybody to fit the standards on the internets, so i have to be mean. First, slasher, your mic sucks, TB you dropping out of the call while being smart and all was infuriating, i hate you for that and wheat, you're not even a real DJ, or at least i don't know about it, and that's your fault, you're the one who should be producing content, and watchs streams all day instead. Take that! (sorry for any english mistakes of strange sentences, or repetitions i'm doing my best to be clear.) WOAH man. He was a real DJ. You stepped over the line. | ||
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izmatic
United States104 Posts
On January 18 2013 05:26 TotalBiscuit wrote: since the articles in question (my biggest criticism) are actually threadbare and provide very little added value if any. If someone else were to do the same thing, I think you'd very quickly find that Slasher doesn't actually have that much reach at all. Exposure to the overall Gamespot audience isn't really relevant either because the way these articles are written and titled has absolutely no draw to anyone who isn't already in the scene. "if you are out to describe the truth, leave elegance to the tailor." - Albert Einstein I find this criticism a bit unfair. He is breaking a story, on twitter. I look at this the same way as a tweet from you saying something along the lines of, " expect a WTF is such and such game soon." Granted when read in your voice, that can sound like some flowing prose, still, it is not your most elegantly written or recited piece. It is merely a weapon in your arsenal, much the same as Slasher. Even all his detractors say that also on his resume are articles of interest and depth. This stupid thing about this debate is that it's actually not about journalistic freedom and what is in the public interest at all. If this was the kind of shit teams were pulling when actual investigative journalism and criticism was in play, then there'd be a righteous shitstorm. But it's not, it's about leaking announcements that were about to be made public anyway, which does not serve the public good in any way. All during the show i remember most of the panel saying how this is an important topic, and please tweet and discuss this and join in threads and on reddit. If this important topic was Slasher sucks as a journalist, i think there are much more entertaining ways they could have kicked it off. But if not, then the only other keynote i see is journalistic reform within esports. And those seem to me dark waters indeed since most the talking heads seem to favor more control over the dissemination of imformation by individual companies and organizations. What i saw on that show i cant call a discussion as much as a torching of him professionaly in a public setting. And Slasher may be a big boy and you are absolutely right that organizations have every right to blackball and pressure journalists that leak there information, but i think these are things that probably should remain behind closed doors. What i saw was juvenile at best, and bottomline as a pair of those eyeballs brought up in the discussion, and one that was pretty excited for this type of content to kick off after the holiday lull. Its kind of a flat note for the new year. | ||
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Irre
United States646 Posts
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coverpunch
United States2093 Posts
On January 18 2013 13:12 Irre wrote: I have to say I'm fairly unbiased in this, but I just listened to the whole exchange and Alex Garfield was extremely disrespectful and took everything way too personally. Was really nasty, and should not have been had on a public show like that. It really came off as a classic EG gang up on someone session. I don't think Slasher necessarily is completely right or wrong on the matter, but he certainly didn't deserve that after coming on knowing that he would have a lot of people coming at him. Ultimately, its the Organizations responsibility to either protect their content or if they aren't happy take it up with the organization he represents (gamespot). He is a reporter and he is doing his job, RIGHT OR WRONG. In general, he can be doing more to help esports I guess as a writer, but people do appreciate his reporting. Also, demonizing him over a few leaks of information when he has been working for and in the industry for so long was not that cool. TB and Nazgul were a lot more rational and respectful, so nothing bad to say about them. EG really needs to get over the fact that they can't control every little bit of PR. Its a bigger world now, and no one can do that anymore. EG seems to be doing quite well regardless. I have to correct you that it wasn't an EG gang up since Alex Garfield did tell his players not to interject into the debate specifically to avoid the appearance of ganging up. When you play the "don't jump in, I'll take him alone" card, it's not a gang up. | ||
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Me jan
Sweden72 Posts
On January 18 2013 13:24 coverpunch wrote: I have to correct you that it wasn't an EG gang up since Alex Garfield did tell his players not to interject into the debate specifically to avoid the appearance of ganging up. When you play the "don't jump in, I'll take him alone" card, it's not a gang up. Slasher was in the EGshow and Garfield pretty much knew every one elses opinions. It was ganging up, read some group psycology or w/e. It was the wrong place and wrong time to take that turn of the discussion and he should have known better. | ||
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B_Type13X2
Canada122 Posts
On January 18 2013 13:43 Me jan wrote: Slasher was in the EGshow and Garfield pretty much knew every one elses opinions. It was ganging up, read some group psycology or w/e. It was the wrong place and wrong time to take that turn of the discussion and he should have known better. Except no one was really rude to slasher. I watched the entire exchange as a person who doesn't really like anyone on either side of the debate with the exception of TB. I think the points made against slasher were very valid, when you break the news you suck all the oxygen out of the room when teams try to build hype. Slasher does this habitually and there is no real good defense for it. It might be his job however it is not making him any friends in the industry, EG and TL both boycotting him is pretty damning, and don't be surprised if they make it a stipulation in contracts to have no contact with slasher in terms of media for all their players. 2 organizations that large can make it very hard for a guy like Slasher to do business and he burned his bridge with EG outright. Why your outraged by this when it was a 1 on 1 conversation and not a 5 on 1 drubbing is beyond me. FYI I found the whole Avilo thing to be childish and was absolutely against how that was handled. This was not one of those situations where any participant was treated with great disrespect even though Slasher is certainly deserving of contempt by many teams and organizations at this point in time. | ||
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xertion
Sweden52 Posts
As someone else stated above. First of all, Slashers obligation is to the shareholders of Gamespot, and to bring profit to that business. Because of the teams putting up News-sites and websites, they are direct competitors with other news agencies and they are competing for the same readers. Basically what it comes down to is EG is begging Gamespot to "Please don't steal our readers". Welcome to business! It's called competition! Just like EG states, they have constructed their business in a way that is competing with other gaming websites, where they need online readers and online viewers that read their news articles to earn money. Also, this is something the whole EG seem to blame on Slasher. They have flaws in their business plan where they are extremely dependent on Sponsorship Deals and Advertisement together with publications, and they are blaming Slasher for cutting in to that. To all EG members who are reading this: It's YOUR and ONLY YOUR responsibility to create a successfull business. It's your responsibility to get as many readers as possible and to create revenue. Personally I think you are bad entrepreneurs who just copy a flawed business model from other teams out there, instead of being a real visionary and entrepreneur, and come up with a new model that works better. | ||
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Daswollvieh
5553 Posts
 On a sidenote: People need to stop calling on "the market" as an excuse for acting like dicks. | ||
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Serpico
4285 Posts
On January 18 2013 17:03 Daswollvieh wrote: As a CEO and founder of an evern bigger business, I think Slasher actions were short-sighted and he will the reap what he sowed, namely distrust. This is fun. On a sidenote: People need to stop calling on "the market" as an excuse for acting like dicks. The only thing journalists deal with in regards to trust is not screwing their sources over or reporting on things spoken about off the record. | ||
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Zarahtra
Iceland4053 Posts
Now not having seen it, I really doubt my POV will alter anyway. I don't think Slasher needs to hold down any news for better or worse of esports or anything else. He doesn't owe anyone except his source for the information and can use it however he wants. That being said, he ofcourse doesn't really want to piss off his subjects(in this case the teams) and possibly reduce his own work, but that's his to value and decide. So aslong as he doesn't screw over his source, I don't see anything wrong with reporting stuff before they are officially announced, it should be in this case EG's job of keeping stuff confidencial/on the down low until that time. | ||
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Grettin
42414 Posts
On January 18 2013 17:23 Zarahtra wrote: Is the show not uploaded yet? :/ Missed it. Now not having seen it, I really doubt my POV will alter anyway. I don't think Slasher needs to hold down any news for better or worse of esports or anything else. He doesn't owe anyone except his source for the information and can use it however he wants. That being said, he ofcourse doesn't really want to piss off his subjects(in this case the teams) and possibly reduce his own work, but that's his to value and decide. So aslong as he doesn't screw over his source, I don't see anything wrong with reporting stuff before they are officially announced, it should be in this case EG's job of keeping stuff confidencial/on the down low until that time. Every onemoregame show VoD is almost instantly up after the show. http://www.twitch.tv/onemoregametv/c/1838714 ITG http://www.twitch.tv/onemoregametv/c/1841112 LO3 | ||
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Zarahtra
Iceland4053 Posts
On January 18 2013 22:05 Grettin wrote: Every onemoregame show VoD is almost instantly up after the show. http://www.twitch.tv/onemoregametv/c/1838714 ITG http://www.twitch.tv/onemoregametv/c/1841112 LO3 Thanks. My POV after watching it, I don't really think Slasher did anything wrong. That being said, I think djWheat's point of getting an exclusive with an embargo would've probably been way more popular, perhaps negotiating a link from EG's site to gamespot article at the end or something. But at the end of the line, the teams need to be more careful about this information if they don't want it out there. If there were more e-sport journalists I doubt you could get a single journalist to stop with leaking news, that is unless they embargo it. | ||
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thuracine
United States582 Posts
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Me jan
Sweden72 Posts
I once had a good feeling about the eSport scene, and I really enjoyed it and EG got me in to it more by their work on videos. Im a big fan of IdrA, DeMu and Thorzain ofc. But I felt filthy after watching last ITG. I had higher thoughts of the eSport scene then this. Something that is meant to be a discussion offscreen is made public and effects atleast some ppls view of the eSport scene as a whole. | ||
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Achaia
United States643 Posts
On January 18 2013 23:42 Me jan wrote: This discussion and that Garfield decided to make it public, and tell people to post on reddit makes me sick. I once had a good feeling about the eSport scene, and I really enjoyed it and EG got me in to it more by their work on videos. Im a big fan of IdrA, DeMu and Thorzain ofc. But I felt filthy after watching last ITG. I had higher thoughts of the eSport scene then this. Something that is meant to be a discussion offscreen is made public and effects atleast some ppls view of the eSport scene as a whole. Your condescension "makes me sick", to steal a phrase from your self righteous rant. This is absolutely a discussion that should be had in public. Slasher has made it very clear to team owners that he doesn't care what team owner's desires are when handling sensitive information like this. Obviously this had been discussed in private many times but Slasher had basically spat in people like Alex's faces by ignoring their requests. I do agree that Alex got a little more heated than was probably acceptable (understandable since Slasher was being pretty bull headed and has been for a while on this subject from what I gathered from djWHEAT even), but everyone else seemed to be pretty even tempered about this. I don't see why anyone would be upset with how the rest of the guys on the show handled themselves. The eSports industry is still growing and maturing outside of Korea and there are going to be growing pains like this and you better believe this won't be the last heated discussion. I for one, thought that slasher's inability to answer anyone's questions directly and defaulting to the "But I have done that kind of journalism!" response instead of addressing their concerns was a complete dodge of the issue and he seemed to make it pretty clear that he doesn't care about the teams in the industry he works for. Like TB said, he reports on eSports. He hurts some teams in eSports when he takes value away from their sponsors by spoiling announcements. If he continues to contribute to detracting from team sponsor's ROI on stuff like this to the point where sponsors lose their worth in the scene then he is actively destroying the very scene that is employing him right now. | ||
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CursedRich
United Kingdom737 Posts
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Me jan
Sweden72 Posts
On January 19 2013 00:07 Achaia wrote: Your condescension "makes me sick", to steal a phrase from your self righteous rant. This is absolutely a discussion that should be had in public. Slasher has made it very clear to team owners that he doesn't care what team owner's desires are when handling sensitive information like this. Obviously this had been discussed in private many times but Slasher had basically spat in people like Alex's faces by ignoring their requests. I do agree that Alex got a little more heated than was probably acceptable (understandable since Slasher was being pretty bull headed and has been for a while on this subject from what I gathered from djWHEAT even), but everyone else seemed to be pretty even tempered about this. I don't see why anyone would be upset with how the rest of the guys on the show handled themselves. The eSports industry is still growing and maturing outside of Korea and there are going to be growing pains like this and you better believe this won't be the last heated discussion. I for one, thought that slasher's inability to answer anyone's questions directly and defaulting to the "But I have done that kind of journalism!" response instead of addressing their concerns was a complete dodge of the issue and he seemed to make it pretty clear that he doesn't care about the teams in the industry he works for. Like TB said, he reports on eSports. He hurts some teams in eSports when he takes value away from their sponsors by spoiling announcements. If he continues to contribute to detracting from team sponsor's ROI on stuff like this to the point where sponsors lose their worth in the scene then he is actively destroying the very scene that is employing him right now. People have diffrent view at things. My opinion is not based on the view that media can me silenced wich seemd to be the whole goal of the discussion and other teamowners sticking up to it afterwards. TB handled media and adapted to how media opporates, using them to his advantage. | ||
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Me jan
Sweden72 Posts
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McDrizzle
United States131 Posts
On January 19 2013 00:20 CursedRich wrote: wow the amount of people missing the point here, its up to EG to keep this stuff quiet and to not let it leak out - end of problem, the rest is just bullshit - it works this way in the real world too Who is saying it is just Team X telling Slasher what he wants to hear. Team Y or Z could of told him what was going on. Either way it is near impossible to keep some stuff quiet. If anything he could some rumor mill stuff or as unethical as what I am going to say have some misleading information (to a point) in an article. For example: In the snute to liquid he could of wrote that he wasnt going to re-sign to his team but he could of wrote all the teams looking at snute (even though he knows he signed with liquid) and leave it at that. Either way I dont care if he breaks the news or not. I dont bother watching the videos that often. I thought the Lo3 discussion points he made were better than his ITG appearance which was bad. | ||
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