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On January 18 2013 05:16 TheSir wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2013 04:43 Zealos wrote:On January 18 2013 04:40 Me jan wrote:On January 18 2013 04:35 Zealos wrote:On January 18 2013 04:28 Broodwurst wrote:On January 18 2013 04:23 Zealos wrote:On January 18 2013 04:17 Me jan wrote:On January 18 2013 04:15 Zealos wrote:On January 18 2013 03:48 Me jan wrote:On January 18 2013 03:39 IdrA wrote:
[quote]
read what he said. that's tl's player manager. its a practical impossibility. as we';ve been saying all along.
It needs to be solved tho, somehow. Well, there we go, it has to be solved somehow. Perhaps the simple solution is for the journalists to contact teams to try and find a mutually beneficial way for the information to be used, so both parties come out on top? And u really belive that is a win/win situation? If it was, it would already work that way. Thats a bizzare and baseless assumption. How does Slasher benefit breaking the news ~2 days early with a boring 2 paragraph news story, instead of having those 2 days to prepare a good article, and then being the only news site with the information written up when it is first announced. How is being the first to report news not beneficial for a journalist? Obviously there is a bonus to that, but it's not that simple. Is he better off getting a few stories 2 days early, or is it better to keep his bridges unburnt so he can still make other articles with the involved teams or players? It's not only the journalist who needs to keep their bridges unburnt. Teams and sponsors needs exposure and shouldn't pull stuff like this off. I can be pretty sure Gamespot will still want coverage, they'll just have to do it without any interviews or exclusive content from the teams, not to mention they'll have it later than places that went to the teams for embargos, of which Slasher may not have access to do anymore. Wanna bet that if, for example, EG and TL ban Slasher they will talk with him pretty soon cause Slasher can do enough interviews with other players and teams to get enough articles but EG and TL would miss a lot of exposure, cause you can say what you want about Slasher.... he has a lot of reach and he can still get the scoops if they dont fix their shit. And his employer (Gamespot) is not going to punish him for doing his job, in fact if i was Gamespot and my employee would get banned from teams for a silly reason like this, i would put pressure on leagues which Gamespot sponsors and covers (MLG for example) to un-ban Slasher from teams. Banning serious journalists is the worst thing you can do.
Banning journalists is absolutely not the worst thing you can do. It's a very fine line journalists have to run, and if slasher gets blacklisted from enough major teams then of COURSE gamespot will have a problem, they want the coverage, and they'll want to know why Slasher can't get it.
See here:
On January 17 2013 19:33 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
Slasher on the one hand wants to use Liquid for information supply, as well as work with us officially on interviews and other content. Yet, on the other hand he will look for leaks outside of my organization that will impact me negatively upon releasing the information. I view this as poor relationship management. I don't think it works like that anywhere, neither here nor in other sports.
....
If he does these things, that again are ethically entirely acceptable, then our business relation will be in a poor condition. If he picks which one he wants to be doing, I will blame him for neither, but trying to do both makes it very difficult.
And I am also assuming you watched the episode where Alex of EG says near enough the same thing.
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On January 18 2013 05:01 Zealos wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2013 04:56 Broodwurst wrote:On January 18 2013 04:35 Zealos wrote:On January 18 2013 04:28 Broodwurst wrote:On January 18 2013 04:23 Zealos wrote:On January 18 2013 04:17 Me jan wrote:On January 18 2013 04:15 Zealos wrote:On January 18 2013 03:48 Me jan wrote:On January 18 2013 03:39 IdrA wrote:On January 18 2013 03:32 Me jan wrote:
[quote]
I would say it is. It's their intrests, therefore all teams should want to watch after information for each other and for all the teams sake. If they are leaking, it's them who have a problem. If they can't controll the information they will need to have another set-up on how things are arranged. read what he said. that's tl's player manager. its a practical impossibility. as we';ve been saying all along. It needs to be solved tho, somehow. Well, there we go, it has to be solved somehow. Perhaps the simple solution is for the journalists to contact teams to try and find a mutually beneficial way for the information to be used, so both parties come out on top? And u really belive that is a win/win situation? If it was, it would already work that way. Thats a bizzare and baseless assumption. How does Slasher benefit breaking the news ~2 days early with a boring 2 paragraph news story, instead of having those 2 days to prepare a good article, and then being the only news site with the information written up when it is first announced. How is being the first to report news not beneficial for a journalist? Obviously there is a bonus to that, but it's not that simple. Is he better off getting a few stories 2 days early, or is it better to keep his bridges unburnt so he can still make other articles with the involved teams or players? If teams refuse him interviews they won't end up on gamespot. That might not seem like a big deal, but considering it's one of the few big sites (which aren't primarily focused on esports) that even cover our small scene it's not the smartest choice if you want to grow exposure. If esports is ever going to become a mainstream thing you won't see people throwing crap at espn for breaking news on a transfer because no team in their right mind would "burn bridges" with them. The odds might seem a bit off at the moment because the contribution of independent media (as in: not directly affiliated with teams) to views etc. might be minorbut that will change if esports is really to become a major thing. Just try it, replace "Slasher" in this whole drama crap with "ESPN" and imagine how different this whole thing would've gone. There sure are things that could be improved, but it's stupid that only Slasher gets shit on because it's easier to blame one person instead of a whole system. But it's not ESPN, because if it were, the leaking wouldn't be a problem, because the excess exposure from /ESPN/ is not even comparable to Gamespot.
I agree but that's not of any concern for Slasher (or Gamespot). His primary concern isn't (and shouldn't be) the benefit of the teams he's reporting on but the people he's reporting to.
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On January 18 2013 05:23 Broodwurst wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2013 05:01 Zealos wrote:On January 18 2013 04:56 Broodwurst wrote:On January 18 2013 04:35 Zealos wrote:On January 18 2013 04:28 Broodwurst wrote:On January 18 2013 04:23 Zealos wrote:On January 18 2013 04:17 Me jan wrote:On January 18 2013 04:15 Zealos wrote:On January 18 2013 03:48 Me jan wrote:On January 18 2013 03:39 IdrA wrote:
[quote]
read what he said. that's tl's player manager. its a practical impossibility. as we';ve been saying all along.
It needs to be solved tho, somehow. Well, there we go, it has to be solved somehow. Perhaps the simple solution is for the journalists to contact teams to try and find a mutually beneficial way for the information to be used, so both parties come out on top? And u really belive that is a win/win situation? If it was, it would already work that way. Thats a bizzare and baseless assumption. How does Slasher benefit breaking the news ~2 days early with a boring 2 paragraph news story, instead of having those 2 days to prepare a good article, and then being the only news site with the information written up when it is first announced. How is being the first to report news not beneficial for a journalist? Obviously there is a bonus to that, but it's not that simple. Is he better off getting a few stories 2 days early, or is it better to keep his bridges unburnt so he can still make other articles with the involved teams or players? If teams refuse him interviews they won't end up on gamespot. That might not seem like a big deal, but considering it's one of the few big sites (which aren't primarily focused on esports) that even cover our small scene it's not the smartest choice if you want to grow exposure. If esports is ever going to become a mainstream thing you won't see people throwing crap at espn for breaking news on a transfer because no team in their right mind would "burn bridges" with them. The odds might seem a bit off at the moment because the contribution of independent media (as in: not directly affiliated with teams) to views etc. might be minorbut that will change if esports is really to become a major thing. Just try it, replace "Slasher" in this whole drama crap with "ESPN" and imagine how different this whole thing would've gone. There sure are things that could be improved, but it's stupid that only Slasher gets shit on because it's easier to blame one person instead of a whole system. But it's not ESPN, because if it were, the leaking wouldn't be a problem, because the excess exposure from /ESPN/ is not even comparable to Gamespot. I agree but that's not of any concern for Slasher (or Gamespot). His primary concern isn't (and shouldn't be) the benefit of the teams he's reporting on but the people he's reporting to.
And he can't give that benefit to the people he's reporting if he gets blacklisted.
Anyway, how much benefit does it /really/ give people having it reported 2 days early? You make it sound like he's doing this to benefit his audience, when in reality, it's for a few cheap views.
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On January 18 2013 05:15 Zealos wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2013 05:10 Me jan wrote:On January 18 2013 04:51 Zealos wrote:On January 18 2013 04:47 Me jan wrote:On January 18 2013 04:43 Zealos wrote:On January 18 2013 04:40 Me jan wrote:On January 18 2013 04:35 Zealos wrote:On January 18 2013 04:28 Broodwurst wrote:On January 18 2013 04:23 Zealos wrote:On January 18 2013 04:17 Me jan wrote:
[quote]
And u really belive that is a win/win situation? If it was, it would already work that way. Thats a bizzare and baseless assumption. How does Slasher benefit breaking the news ~2 days early with a boring 2 paragraph news story, instead of having those 2 days to prepare a good article, and then being the only news site with the information written up when it is first announced. How is being the first to report news not beneficial for a journalist? Obviously there is a bonus to that, but it's not that simple. Is he better off getting a few stories 2 days early, or is it better to keep his bridges unburnt so he can still make other articles with the involved teams or players? It's not only the journalist who needs to keep their bridges unburnt. Teams and sponsors needs exposure and shouldn't pull stuff like this off. I can be pretty sure Gamespot will still want coverage, they'll just have to do it without any interviews or exclusive content from the teams, not to mention they'll have it later than places that went to the teams for embargos, of which Slasher may not have access to do anymore. Wich also would mean sponsors and teams dont get a benefitual exposure. Wish seem logic... how? No it wouldn't, it would just mean the article on Gamespot would have to be later or of lesser quality, either way there exposure is there. You'll find, in the world of journalism, there is always someone willing to put a story out. Hell, your argument earlier was that he wants to leak stories to get ahead of the competition. That same competition will be the "beneficial exposure" you talk of. That was not my exact words but yes, obviously he gets the longer straw by posting it. Also he is doing his job as a reporter. I find it irrational to boycott media because they published the story. Because the teams don't benefit of that, the eSport as a whole don't eather and certainly the sponsors does not. That's just drama to me. Yes they do benefit, because people are less likely to run stories early next time. It's pretty basic. If a newspaper were given access to news, and they ran the story early, you can be as sure as hell that they won't be given access to that information again. It's all covered by Nazgul to be honest. If he wants to be the reporter who tries to get information on his own and run it early, he can be, but he can't be the guy close to the teams getting the inside information from them at the same time.
The thing is the information is out there already. Starting a boycott of a site who can get more ppl in to the eSport scene, while claiming Slasher is killing eSports rhyms bad.
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On January 18 2013 05:19 IdrA wrote:
eg+tl are far more important relative to other teams than slasher is relative to other esports journalists.
plus totalbiscuit and other team owners have also expressed annoyance, if not more, at him.
I'd also like to point out that people make a lot of claims about Slashers "reach" but without any real understanding of where the hits come from. Naturally we can only speculate because we don't have access to Gamespots analytics but I would be absolutely shocked if the majority of hits on those articles, the substantial majority, were not direct hotlinks from Reddit, Twitter and Teamliquid threads. His reach at present only extends as far as an entrenched audience that really doesn't care where the news comes from. There is not a substantial group of people "going to Slasher" on a regular basis for news. It could be anyone doing it, since the articles in question (my biggest criticism) are actually threadbare and provide very little added value if any. If someone else were to do the same thing, I think you'd very quickly find that Slasher doesn't actually have that much reach at all. Exposure to the overall Gamespot audience isn't really relevant either because the way these articles are written and titled has absolutely no draw to anyone who isn't already in the scene. Compare what he's doing to what I'm doing. If I create a kickass promo or I create an event or even just do a cast and promote it to my general gaming, then there is some reach outside of the already existing SC2 fanbase. There is a real possibility that we bring new people into the scene that way because the content is designed in such a way to be friendly to them. These announcement posts by Slasher have none of those quality and the only non-SC2 fans going to those articles are doing so to leave a snide comment about how eSports/Starcraft sucks.
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On January 18 2013 05:16 TheSir wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2013 04:43 Zealos wrote:On January 18 2013 04:40 Me jan wrote:On January 18 2013 04:35 Zealos wrote:On January 18 2013 04:28 Broodwurst wrote:On January 18 2013 04:23 Zealos wrote:On January 18 2013 04:17 Me jan wrote:On January 18 2013 04:15 Zealos wrote:On January 18 2013 03:48 Me jan wrote:On January 18 2013 03:39 IdrA wrote:
[quote]
read what he said. that's tl's player manager. its a practical impossibility. as we';ve been saying all along.
It needs to be solved tho, somehow. Well, there we go, it has to be solved somehow. Perhaps the simple solution is for the journalists to contact teams to try and find a mutually beneficial way for the information to be used, so both parties come out on top? And u really belive that is a win/win situation? If it was, it would already work that way. Thats a bizzare and baseless assumption. How does Slasher benefit breaking the news ~2 days early with a boring 2 paragraph news story, instead of having those 2 days to prepare a good article, and then being the only news site with the information written up when it is first announced. How is being the first to report news not beneficial for a journalist? Obviously there is a bonus to that, but it's not that simple. Is he better off getting a few stories 2 days early, or is it better to keep his bridges unburnt so he can still make other articles with the involved teams or players? It's not only the journalist who needs to keep their bridges unburnt. Teams and sponsors needs exposure and shouldn't pull stuff like this off. I can be pretty sure Gamespot will still want coverage, they'll just have to do it without any interviews or exclusive content from the teams, not to mention they'll have it later than places that went to the teams for embargos, of which Slasher may not have access to do anymore. Wanna bet that if, for example, EG and TL ban Slasher they will talk with him pretty soon cause Slasher can do enough interviews with other players and teams to get enough articles but EG and TL would miss a lot of exposure, cause you can say what you want about Slasher.... he has a lot of reach and he can still get the scoops if they dont fix their shit. And his employer (Gamespot) is not going to punish him for doing his job, in fact if i was Gamespot and my employee would get banned from teams for a silly reason like this, i would put pressure on leagues which Gamespot sponsors and covers (MLG for example) to un-ban Slasher from teams. Banning serious journalists is the worst thing you can do.
It's not a blanket ban of "serious journalists" though now is it? It's not uncommon for the pr department of sport teams to restrict access to certain journalists and it's certainly not the worst thing you can do, whatever that means.
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On January 18 2013 05:28 nihlon wrote:
It's not a blanket ban of "serious journalists" though now is it? It's not uncommon for the pr department of sport teams to restrict access to certain journalists and it's certainly not the worst thing you can do, whatever that means.
It's very common in fact. If journalists are actively disrupting the marketing plans of companies what do you expect them to do, sit back and thank them for it? Absolutely not, they're going to do what they are well within their rights to do which is try and control the message.
This stupid thing about this debate is that it's actually not about journalistic freedom and what is in the public interest at all. If this was the kind of shit teams were pulling when actual investigative journalism and criticism was in play, then there'd be a righteous shitstorm. But it's not, it's about leaking announcements that were about to be made public anyway, which does not serve the public good in any way.
While I as a team promoter accept that this is going to happen and take measures against it (which includes engaging with people like Slasher and making them a part of my media strategy, unwittingly or otherwise), I personally am repeatedly disappointed by the quality of these articles and the complete lack of value they add to anything. It disappoints me further because I know Slasher is better than that and at present seems mostly concerned with raw hits in order to satisfy his employer.
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On January 18 2013 05:26 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2013 05:19 IdrA wrote:
eg+tl are far more important relative to other teams than slasher is relative to other esports journalists.
plus totalbiscuit and other team owners have also expressed annoyance, if not more, at him. I'd also like to point out that people make a lot of claims about Slashers "reach" but without any real understanding of where the hits come from. Naturally we can only speculate because we don't have access to Gamespots analytics but I would be absolutely shocked if the majority of hits on those articles, the substantial majority, were not direct hotlinks from Reddit, Twitter and Teamliquid threads. His reach at present only extends as far as an entrenched audience that really doesn't care where the news comes from. There is not a substantial group of people "going to Slasher" on a regular basis for news. It could be anyone doing it, since the articles in question (my biggest criticism) are actually threadbare and provide very little added value if any. If someone else were to do the same thing, I think you'd very quickly find that Slasher doesn't actually have that much reach at all. Exposure to the overall Gamespot audience isn't really relevant either because the way these articles are written and titled has absolutely no draw to anyone who isn't already in the scene. Compare what he's doing to what I'm doing. If I create a kickass promo or I create an event or even just do a cast and promote it to my general gaming, then there is some reach outside of the already existing SC2 fanbase. There is a real possibility that we bring new people into the scene that way because the content is designed in such a way to be friendly to them. These announcement posts by Slasher have none of those quality and the only non-SC2 fans going to those articles are doing so to leave a snide comment about how eSports/Starcraft sucks.
You said "his reach at present." What if his reach grows, would that change things?
I agree with pretty much everything you said, but the question for me is how growth in whatever direction changes things and - more importantly - if it even should change things at all.
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On January 18 2013 05:37 Broodwurst wrote:
You said "his reach at present." What if his reach grows, would that change things?
I agree with pretty much everything you said, but the question for me is how growth in whatever direction changes things and - more importantly - if it even should change things at all.
His reach can grow if he ups the quality of his work, admittedly there is nothing within his writing at present that would appeal to anyone outside of the SC2 market anyway. Journalists aren't eSports evangelists and nobody expects them to be, that's what personalities and commentators are for, that's our job. What I would like to see from Slasher is a return to what I used to like reading his material for, which is the biggest possible focus on investigative work, exposing the problems our industry has and providing critical analysis with no punches pulled. If he does that he can gain respect within the scene and actually become a source of information and analysis that people actively seek out. Right now I see no evidence that this is the case. I expect better of him, I've spoken to him in private about this and he has not disagreed, he knows he can do better and I think teams would be far less hostile if the leaks didn't appear so lazily presented in the first place. Be a journalist, not a tabloid.
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On January 18 2013 05:37 Broodwurst wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2013 05:26 TotalBiscuit wrote:On January 18 2013 05:19 IdrA wrote:
eg+tl are far more important relative to other teams than slasher is relative to other esports journalists.
plus totalbiscuit and other team owners have also expressed annoyance, if not more, at him. I'd also like to point out that people make a lot of claims about Slashers "reach" but without any real understanding of where the hits come from. Naturally we can only speculate because we don't have access to Gamespots analytics but I would be absolutely shocked if the majority of hits on those articles, the substantial majority, were not direct hotlinks from Reddit, Twitter and Teamliquid threads. His reach at present only extends as far as an entrenched audience that really doesn't care where the news comes from. There is not a substantial group of people "going to Slasher" on a regular basis for news. It could be anyone doing it, since the articles in question (my biggest criticism) are actually threadbare and provide very little added value if any. If someone else were to do the same thing, I think you'd very quickly find that Slasher doesn't actually have that much reach at all. Exposure to the overall Gamespot audience isn't really relevant either because the way these articles are written and titled has absolutely no draw to anyone who isn't already in the scene. Compare what he's doing to what I'm doing. If I create a kickass promo or I create an event or even just do a cast and promote it to my general gaming, then there is some reach outside of the already existing SC2 fanbase. There is a real possibility that we bring new people into the scene that way because the content is designed in such a way to be friendly to them. These announcement posts by Slasher have none of those quality and the only non-SC2 fans going to those articles are doing so to leave a snide comment about how eSports/Starcraft sucks. You said "his reach at present." What if his reach grows, would that change things? I agree with pretty much everything you said, but the question for me is how growth in whatever direction changes things and - more importantly - if it even should change things at all.
But by the time his reach grows, there will be plenty of other journalists competing for exclusive access to the teams, and slasher will be left behind in the dust if he gets blacklisted.
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On January 18 2013 05:26 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2013 05:19 IdrA wrote:
eg+tl are far more important relative to other teams than slasher is relative to other esports journalists.
plus totalbiscuit and other team owners have also expressed annoyance, if not more, at him. I'd also like to point out that people make a lot of claims about Slashers "reach" but without any real understanding of where the hits come from. Naturally we can only speculate because we don't have access to Gamespots analytics but I would be absolutely shocked if the majority of hits on those articles, the substantial majority, were not direct hotlinks from Reddit, Twitter and Teamliquid threads. His reach at present only extends as far as an entrenched audience that really doesn't care where the news comes from. There is not a substantial group of people "going to Slasher" on a regular basis for news. It could be anyone doing it, since the articles in question (my biggest criticism) are actually threadbare and provide very little added value if any. If someone else were to do the same thing, I think you'd very quickly find that Slasher doesn't actually have that much reach at all. Exposure to the overall Gamespot audience isn't really relevant either because the way these articles are written and titled has absolutely no draw to anyone who isn't already in the scene. Compare what he's doing to what I'm doing. If I create a kickass promo or I create an event or even just do a cast and promote it to my general gaming, then there is some reach outside of the already existing SC2 fanbase. There is a real possibility that we bring new people into the scene that way because the content is designed in such a way to be friendly to them. These announcement posts by Slasher have none of those quality and the only non-SC2 fans going to those articles are doing so to leave a snide comment about how eSports/Starcraft sucks.
And you think these people you can turn to sc2 fans wont watch your announcements and get hyped because someone else leaked it on one of the sites they never visit?
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On January 18 2013 05:41 Dotq wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2013 05:26 TotalBiscuit wrote:On January 18 2013 05:19 IdrA wrote:
eg+tl are far more important relative to other teams than slasher is relative to other esports journalists.
plus totalbiscuit and other team owners have also expressed annoyance, if not more, at him. I'd also like to point out that people make a lot of claims about Slashers "reach" but without any real understanding of where the hits come from. Naturally we can only speculate because we don't have access to Gamespots analytics but I would be absolutely shocked if the majority of hits on those articles, the substantial majority, were not direct hotlinks from Reddit, Twitter and Teamliquid threads. His reach at present only extends as far as an entrenched audience that really doesn't care where the news comes from. There is not a substantial group of people "going to Slasher" on a regular basis for news. It could be anyone doing it, since the articles in question (my biggest criticism) are actually threadbare and provide very little added value if any. If someone else were to do the same thing, I think you'd very quickly find that Slasher doesn't actually have that much reach at all. Exposure to the overall Gamespot audience isn't really relevant either because the way these articles are written and titled has absolutely no draw to anyone who isn't already in the scene. Compare what he's doing to what I'm doing. If I create a kickass promo or I create an event or even just do a cast and promote it to my general gaming, then there is some reach outside of the already existing SC2 fanbase. There is a real possibility that we bring new people into the scene that way because the content is designed in such a way to be friendly to them. These announcement posts by Slasher have none of those quality and the only non-SC2 fans going to those articles are doing so to leave a snide comment about how eSports/Starcraft sucks. And you think these people you can turn to sc2 fans wont watch your announcements and get hyped because someone else leaked it on one of the sites they never visit?
These aren't the problem people when things get leaked early, it ruins the hype for people already in the scene.
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On January 18 2013 05:41 Dotq wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2013 05:26 TotalBiscuit wrote:On January 18 2013 05:19 IdrA wrote:
eg+tl are far more important relative to other teams than slasher is relative to other esports journalists.
plus totalbiscuit and other team owners have also expressed annoyance, if not more, at him. I'd also like to point out that people make a lot of claims about Slashers "reach" but without any real understanding of where the hits come from. Naturally we can only speculate because we don't have access to Gamespots analytics but I would be absolutely shocked if the majority of hits on those articles, the substantial majority, were not direct hotlinks from Reddit, Twitter and Teamliquid threads. His reach at present only extends as far as an entrenched audience that really doesn't care where the news comes from. There is not a substantial group of people "going to Slasher" on a regular basis for news. It could be anyone doing it, since the articles in question (my biggest criticism) are actually threadbare and provide very little added value if any. If someone else were to do the same thing, I think you'd very quickly find that Slasher doesn't actually have that much reach at all. Exposure to the overall Gamespot audience isn't really relevant either because the way these articles are written and titled has absolutely no draw to anyone who isn't already in the scene. Compare what he's doing to what I'm doing. If I create a kickass promo or I create an event or even just do a cast and promote it to my general gaming, then there is some reach outside of the already existing SC2 fanbase. There is a real possibility that we bring new people into the scene that way because the content is designed in such a way to be friendly to them. These announcement posts by Slasher have none of those quality and the only non-SC2 fans going to those articles are doing so to leave a snide comment about how eSports/Starcraft sucks. And you think these people you can turn to sc2 fans wont watch your announcements and get hyped because someone else leaked it on one of the sites they never visit?
I think they are more likely to read more things on Gamspot than visit the teams website. Or tune in to the next event, which may not even feature the team from the first announcement that brought them to the site.
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On January 18 2013 05:34 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2013 05:28 nihlon wrote:
It's not a blanket ban of "serious journalists" though now is it? It's not uncommon for the pr department of sport teams to restrict access to certain journalists and it's certainly not the worst thing you can do, whatever that means. It's very common in fact. If journalists are actively disrupting the marketing plans of companies what do you expect them to do, sit back and thank them for it? Absolutely not, they're going to do what they are well within their rights to do which is try and control the message. This stupid thing about this debate is that it's actually not about journalistic freedom and what is in the public interest at all. If this was the kind of shit teams were pulling when actual investigative journalism and criticism was in play, then there'd be a righteous shitstorm. But it's not, it's about leaking announcements that were about to be made public anyway, which does not serve the public good in any way. While I as a team promoter accept that this is going to happen and take measures against it (which includes engaging with people like Slasher and making them a part of my media strategy, unwittingly or otherwise), I personally am repeatedly disappointed by the quality of these articles and the complete lack of value they add to anything. It disappoints me further because I know Slasher is better than that and at present seems mostly concerned with raw hits in order to satisfy his employer.
So your concern is that Slasher is not doing a good job in your opinion? I'm sorry but where does that statment even come from? So the topic of the show was just to bash on how Slasher works, and telling him and the viewers he isn't professional.
That is a bad set-up imo.
Its kinda contradicting sice u in previous post claim that Gamespot doesn't matter and have poor content and therefore wouldn't effect the scene.
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On January 18 2013 05:40 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2013 05:37 Broodwurst wrote:
You said "his reach at present." What if his reach grows, would that change things?
I agree with pretty much everything you said, but the question for me is how growth in whatever direction changes things and - more importantly - if it even should change things at all.
His reach can grow if he ups the quality of his work, admittedly there is nothing within his writing at present that would appeal to anyone outside of the SC2 market anyway. Journalists aren't eSports evangelists and nobody expects them to be, that's what personalities and commentators are for, that's our job. What I would like to see from Slasher is a return to what I used to like reading his material for, which is the biggest possible focus on investigative work, exposing the problems our industry has and providing critical analysis with no punches pulled. If he does that he can gain respect within the scene and actually become a source of information and analysis that people actively seek out. Right now I see no evidence that this is the case. I expect better of him, I've spoken to him in private about this and he has not disagreed, he knows he can do better and I think teams would be far less hostile if the leaks didn't appear so lazily presented in the first place. Be a journalist, not a tabloid.
Oh, I totally agree on the release quality. I don't think that would've had any impact on the madness factor of certain people but maybe we'll find out in the future (:
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On January 18 2013 05:46 Me jan wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2013 05:34 TotalBiscuit wrote:On January 18 2013 05:28 nihlon wrote:
It's not a blanket ban of "serious journalists" though now is it? It's not uncommon for the pr department of sport teams to restrict access to certain journalists and it's certainly not the worst thing you can do, whatever that means. It's very common in fact. If journalists are actively disrupting the marketing plans of companies what do you expect them to do, sit back and thank them for it? Absolutely not, they're going to do what they are well within their rights to do which is try and control the message. This stupid thing about this debate is that it's actually not about journalistic freedom and what is in the public interest at all. If this was the kind of shit teams were pulling when actual investigative journalism and criticism was in play, then there'd be a righteous shitstorm. But it's not, it's about leaking announcements that were about to be made public anyway, which does not serve the public good in any way. While I as a team promoter accept that this is going to happen and take measures against it (which includes engaging with people like Slasher and making them a part of my media strategy, unwittingly or otherwise), I personally am repeatedly disappointed by the quality of these articles and the complete lack of value they add to anything. It disappoints me further because I know Slasher is better than that and at present seems mostly concerned with raw hits in order to satisfy his employer. So your concern is that Slasher is not doing a good job in your opinion? I'm sorry but where does that statment even come from? So the topic of the show was just to bash on how Slasher works, and telling him and the viewers he isn't professional. That is a bad set-up imo. Its kinda contradicting sice u in previous post claim that Gamespot doesn't matter and have poor content and therefore wouldn't effect the scene.
I think the topic of the show was to say that the type of reporting Slasher seemed to be focused on getting page views for Gamespot, making them more money. Slasher tried to make the argument that this type of reporting was good for everyone, because it got exposure for Esports. That is a bit of a stretch, in my opinion, since Gamespot wants page views as much as TL or EG. The teams disagree and point out that it is not good for them at all.
So yes, it the point of the show was for teams to express their displeasure with the style and quality of Slashers reporting, and to do it publicly. As TB put it, it appears to be driving less to provide good reporting and more to make money for Gamespot. That’s great, but if it is cutting into the team’s income, you can bet they would be pissed and call him it on.
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Before Wheat brings on Slasher he makes the best statement in regards to using knowledge to help place the journalist in a better overall position. By taking the information and parlaying it into possibly something much better i.e. swallowing the "breaking news" and using that information to gain exclusive interviews and statements etc.
What he is doing to himself could be crippling to his career in the long run. Say Nazgul, Alex, Jenna & TB become so annoyed/pissed off with how Slasher continues to go about with his reporting; they could all theoretically blacklist their employee's to him and GameSpot. Then in the end he is shut out of possible interviews with 3 major esports teams.
My thought is I understand exactly why teams are pissed off, but they also need to start being annoyed with their own employees who can't seem to keep their mouths shut.
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On January 18 2013 05:46 Me jan wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2013 05:34 TotalBiscuit wrote:On January 18 2013 05:28 nihlon wrote:
It's not a blanket ban of "serious journalists" though now is it? It's not uncommon for the pr department of sport teams to restrict access to certain journalists and it's certainly not the worst thing you can do, whatever that means. It's very common in fact. If journalists are actively disrupting the marketing plans of companies what do you expect them to do, sit back and thank them for it? Absolutely not, they're going to do what they are well within their rights to do which is try and control the message. This stupid thing about this debate is that it's actually not about journalistic freedom and what is in the public interest at all. If this was the kind of shit teams were pulling when actual investigative journalism and criticism was in play, then there'd be a righteous shitstorm. But it's not, it's about leaking announcements that were about to be made public anyway, which does not serve the public good in any way. While I as a team promoter accept that this is going to happen and take measures against it (which includes engaging with people like Slasher and making them a part of my media strategy, unwittingly or otherwise), I personally am repeatedly disappointed by the quality of these articles and the complete lack of value they add to anything. It disappoints me further because I know Slasher is better than that and at present seems mostly concerned with raw hits in order to satisfy his employer. So your concern is that Slasher is not doing a good job in your opinion? I'm sorry but where does that statment even come from?
That's the disconnect I am seeing now. There is rarely a more interesting story being unreported when it comes to players signing and changing teams. The same goes with the idea of getting an exclusive interview. An example of an exception would be NaNiwa's team situation but something like Snute joining Liquid? Aside from "Will you go to Korea" and "How much are you getting paid" are there any interesting things to report and discuss? There's plenty for Team Liquid to hype about the player to make us care but in terms of "news" the signing itself is 99% of what is interesting.
Edit to add: And from a team perspective the hype and page views for signing a player should be the LEAST important and least viewed announcement for that player. What the player does before, during, and after events, actually playing the game, and interacting with fans of the team should all be a magnitude above what they have for simply signing them to the team.
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On January 18 2013 05:40 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2013 05:37 Broodwurst wrote:
You said "his reach at present." What if his reach grows, would that change things?
I agree with pretty much everything you said, but the question for me is how growth in whatever direction changes things and - more importantly - if it even should change things at all.
His reach can grow if he ups the quality of his work, admittedly there is nothing within his writing at present that would appeal to anyone outside of the SC2 market anyway. Journalists aren't eSports evangelists and nobody expects them to be, that's what personalities and commentators are for, that's our job. What I would like to see from Slasher is a return to what I used to like reading his material for, which is the biggest possible focus on investigative work, exposing the problems our industry has and providing critical analysis with no punches pulled. If he does that he can gain respect within the scene and actually become a source of information and analysis that people actively seek out. Right now I see no evidence that this is the case. I expect better of him, I've spoken to him in private about this and he has not disagreed, he knows he can do better and I think teams would be far less hostile if the leaks didn't appear so lazily presented in the first place. Be a journalist, not a tabloid.
That is already displayed since this discussion already takes place. But teamowners shouldn't bark at the wrong tree. The structure needs to be re-newed of how the scene works, taking precautions. As u yourslef did. Maybe others can learn from how u handled the press. And being offensive towards a person on cam -not cool. What was the agenda with that?
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On January 18 2013 05:41 Dotq wrote:
And you think these people you can turn to sc2 fans wont watch your announcements and get hyped because someone else leaked it on one of the sites they never visit?
This is a strawman argument since I am one of the very few exceptions and made that abundantly clear during the show. Please listen to the show if you are confused as to what my argument is.
And being offensive towards a person on cam -not cool. What was the agenda with that?
Slasher is not a 10 year old and is completely used to both dishing out and taking trashtalk. People need to get over the "retarded cat" comment and stop taking it out of context. The way that Slasher writes those leaks is lazy, I've told him this publicly and privately and he has not disagreed, quite the contrary. I am most disappointed in that because I know he's capable of far better.
So your concern is that Slasher is not doing a good job in your opinion? I'm sorry but where does that statment even come from? So the topic of the show was just to bash on how Slasher works, and telling him and the viewers he isn't professional.
That is a bad set-up imo.
Its kinda contradicting sice u in previous post claim that Gamespot doesn't matter and have poor content and therefore wouldn't effect the scene.
You clearly did not comprehend my post very well. This is the problem with discussing these things with people who have no experience in the industry, it's difficult to do that because they have a ton of misconceptions and don't understand the topic very well. This would be why this became "drama" and not a real discussion.
Please read my post again and try to properly comprehend the point I was making. If after that you have any further questions and still don't understand it, I'll try and rephrase it for you.
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EPT
