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On January 19 2013 01:15 McDrizzle wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2013 00:20 CursedRich wrote:
wow the amount of people missing the point here, its up to EG to keep this stuff quiet and to not let it leak out - end of problem, the rest is just bullshit - it works this way in the real world too Who is saying it is just Team X telling Slasher what he wants to hear. Team Y or Z could of told him what was going on. Either way it is near impossible to keep some stuff quiet. If anything he could some rumor mill stuff or as unethical as what I am going to say have some misleading information (to a point) in an article. For example: In the snute to liquid he could of wrote that he wasnt going to re-sign to his team but he could of wrote all the teams looking at snute (even though he knows he signed with liquid) and leave it at that. Either way I dont care if he breaks the news or not. I dont bother watching the videos that often. I thought the Lo3 discussion points he made were better than his ITG appearance which was bad.
If all teamowners can unit against the kind of quality on the journalism. They should be able to unit to keep information within the teams.
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On January 19 2013 00:38 Me jan wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2013 00:07 Achaia wrote:On January 18 2013 23:42 Me jan wrote:
This discussion and that Garfield decided to make it public, and tell people to post on reddit makes me sick.
I once had a good feeling about the eSport scene, and I really enjoyed it and EG got me in to it more by their work on videos. Im a big fan of IdrA, DeMu and Thorzain ofc. But I felt filthy after watching last ITG.
I had higher thoughts of the eSport scene then this. Something that is meant to be a discussion offscreen is made public and effects atleast some ppls view of the eSport scene as a whole.
Your condescension "makes me sick", to steal a phrase from your self righteous rant. This is absolutely a discussion that should be had in public. Slasher has made it very clear to team owners that he doesn't care what team owner's desires are when handling sensitive information like this. Obviously this had been discussed in private many times but Slasher had basically spat in people like Alex's faces by ignoring their requests. I do agree that Alex got a little more heated than was probably acceptable (understandable since Slasher was being pretty bull headed and has been for a while on this subject from what I gathered from djWHEAT even), but everyone else seemed to be pretty even tempered about this. I don't see why anyone would be upset with how the rest of the guys on the show handled themselves. The eSports industry is still growing and maturing outside of Korea and there are going to be growing pains like this and you better believe this won't be the last heated discussion. I for one, thought that slasher's inability to answer anyone's questions directly and defaulting to the "But I have done that kind of journalism!" response instead of addressing their concerns was a complete dodge of the issue and he seemed to make it pretty clear that he doesn't care about the teams in the industry he works for. Like TB said, he reports on eSports. He hurts some teams in eSports when he takes value away from their sponsors by spoiling announcements. If he continues to contribute to detracting from team sponsor's ROI on stuff like this to the point where sponsors lose their worth in the scene then he is actively destroying the very scene that is employing him right now. People have diffrent view at things. My opinion is not based on the view that media can me silenced wich seemd to be the whole goal of the discussion and other teamowners sticking up to it afterwards. TB handled media and adapted to how media opporates, using them to his advantage.
Choosing not to communicate with certain journalists because you don't like the way they operate and "silencing the media" are two completely different things. No one is trying to "silence" Slasher here, it was however made extremely clear that they don't like him leaking certain things earlier than they are planning on announcing them. They also made it clear that they would offer him other exclusive things in return for not releasing said information prematurely. Since Slasher basically gave them the finger and did it anyways I'm not surprised they don't want to work with him going forward and they're completely within their right to do so. They are NOT, however, "silencing" him.
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On January 19 2013 02:30 Achaia wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2013 00:38 Me jan wrote:On January 19 2013 00:07 Achaia wrote:On January 18 2013 23:42 Me jan wrote:
This discussion and that Garfield decided to make it public, and tell people to post on reddit makes me sick.
I once had a good feeling about the eSport scene, and I really enjoyed it and EG got me in to it more by their work on videos. Im a big fan of IdrA, DeMu and Thorzain ofc. But I felt filthy after watching last ITG.
I had higher thoughts of the eSport scene then this. Something that is meant to be a discussion offscreen is made public and effects atleast some ppls view of the eSport scene as a whole.
Your condescension "makes me sick", to steal a phrase from your self righteous rant. This is absolutely a discussion that should be had in public. Slasher has made it very clear to team owners that he doesn't care what team owner's desires are when handling sensitive information like this. Obviously this had been discussed in private many times but Slasher had basically spat in people like Alex's faces by ignoring their requests. I do agree that Alex got a little more heated than was probably acceptable (understandable since Slasher was being pretty bull headed and has been for a while on this subject from what I gathered from djWHEAT even), but everyone else seemed to be pretty even tempered about this. I don't see why anyone would be upset with how the rest of the guys on the show handled themselves. The eSports industry is still growing and maturing outside of Korea and there are going to be growing pains like this and you better believe this won't be the last heated discussion. I for one, thought that slasher's inability to answer anyone's questions directly and defaulting to the "But I have done that kind of journalism!" response instead of addressing their concerns was a complete dodge of the issue and he seemed to make it pretty clear that he doesn't care about the teams in the industry he works for. Like TB said, he reports on eSports. He hurts some teams in eSports when he takes value away from their sponsors by spoiling announcements. If he continues to contribute to detracting from team sponsor's ROI on stuff like this to the point where sponsors lose their worth in the scene then he is actively destroying the very scene that is employing him right now. People have diffrent view at things. My opinion is not based on the view that media can me silenced wich seemd to be the whole goal of the discussion and other teamowners sticking up to it afterwards. TB handled media and adapted to how media opporates, using them to his advantage. Choosing not to communicate with certain journalists because you don't like the way they operate and "silencing the media" are two completely different things. No one is trying to "silence" Slasher here, it was however made extremely clear that they don't like him leaking certain things earlier than they are planning on announcing them. They also made it clear that they would offer him other exclusive things in return for not releasing said information prematurely. Since Slasher basically gave them the finger and did it anyways I'm not surprised they don't want to work with him going forward and they're completely within their right to do so. They are NOT, however, "silencing" him.
U would expect any professional organisation to take precautions against media, that's not the thing as far as i'm concerned. Trying to get the community with u while u do it is somehow trying to silence media. Maybe it will work.. But there will be someone else who takes Slashers position, since it is business. The intrests collide, well maybe it is time for teams to be loyal to eachother and don't leak. Trying to start a debate against Slasher is not the answer to the error.
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On January 18 2013 13:43 Me jan wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2013 13:24 coverpunch wrote:On January 18 2013 13:12 Irre wrote:
I have to say I'm fairly unbiased in this, but I just listened to the whole exchange and Alex Garfield was extremely disrespectful and took everything way too personally. Was really nasty, and should not have been had on a public show like that. It really came off as a classic EG gang up on someone session. I don't think Slasher necessarily is completely right or wrong on the matter, but he certainly didn't deserve that after coming on knowing that he would have a lot of people coming at him. Ultimately, its the Organizations responsibility to either protect their content or if they aren't happy take it up with the organization he represents (gamespot). He is a reporter and he is doing his job, RIGHT OR WRONG. In general, he can be doing more to help esports I guess as a writer, but people do appreciate his reporting. Also, demonizing him over a few leaks of information when he has been working for and in the industry for so long was not that cool. TB and Nazgul were a lot more rational and respectful, so nothing bad to say about them. EG really needs to get over the fact that they can't control every little bit of PR. Its a bigger world now, and no one can do that anymore. EG seems to be doing quite well regardless. I have to correct you that it wasn't an EG gang up since Alex Garfield did tell his players not to interject into the debate specifically to avoid the appearance of ganging up. When you play the "don't jump in, I'll take him alone" card, it's not a gang up. Slasher was in the EGshow and Garfield pretty much knew every one elses opinions. It was ganging up, read some group psycology or w/e. It was the wrong place and wrong time to take that turn of the discussion and he should have known better.
To be fair to Garfield, he did tell his team members to stay out of the discussion(see Idra's post in Naz'Gul's blog) to avoid ganging up on Slasher. Also, if this were a standard relationship between the press and a buisness that didn't want information leaked, there would have been no public discussion like this. It would have been behind closed doors and much meaner. Or the teams would have just taken efforts to limit Slasher's access and never talked to him about it at all.
I think this discussion took place because Slasher is friends with everyone in the Esports industry and a lot of people are not happy with the way he is reporting on them. I was really surprised at how unified all the points of view are between the team owners. Even Sir Scoots is calling Slasher out publicly on twitter for ignoring the "Owned.tv not paying people" story, which Scoots claims almost everyone knew about. I was really surprised by that, but it seems that everyone is pretty grumpy about this issue, even his close friends.
People can focus on the media and press issues if they want. But from where I am standing, I think we are seeing a group of good friends trying to figure out how to remain friends and all do their jobs. A lot of the team owners, like Alex Garfield and Jason Lake, put a ton of time and personal money into these teams. They care a lot and it is coming to the point where their personal relationship with Slasher cannot remain the same with the current business relationship.
Or to put it another way, my father has had some really good friends cost him a lot of money in a business deal. They are not friends any more and it still bums him out 15 years later.
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On January 19 2013 02:54 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2013 13:43 Me jan wrote:On January 18 2013 13:24 coverpunch wrote:On January 18 2013 13:12 Irre wrote:
I have to say I'm fairly unbiased in this, but I just listened to the whole exchange and Alex Garfield was extremely disrespectful and took everything way too personally. Was really nasty, and should not have been had on a public show like that. It really came off as a classic EG gang up on someone session. I don't think Slasher necessarily is completely right or wrong on the matter, but he certainly didn't deserve that after coming on knowing that he would have a lot of people coming at him. Ultimately, its the Organizations responsibility to either protect their content or if they aren't happy take it up with the organization he represents (gamespot). He is a reporter and he is doing his job, RIGHT OR WRONG. In general, he can be doing more to help esports I guess as a writer, but people do appreciate his reporting. Also, demonizing him over a few leaks of information when he has been working for and in the industry for so long was not that cool. TB and Nazgul were a lot more rational and respectful, so nothing bad to say about them. EG really needs to get over the fact that they can't control every little bit of PR. Its a bigger world now, and no one can do that anymore. EG seems to be doing quite well regardless. I have to correct you that it wasn't an EG gang up since Alex Garfield did tell his players not to interject into the debate specifically to avoid the appearance of ganging up. When you play the "don't jump in, I'll take him alone" card, it's not a gang up. Slasher was in the EGshow and Garfield pretty much knew every one elses opinions. It was ganging up, read some group psycology or w/e. It was the wrong place and wrong time to take that turn of the discussion and he should have known better. To be fair to Garfield, he did tell his team members to stay out of the discussion(see Idra's post in Naz'Gul's blog) to avoid ganging up on Slasher. Also, if this were a standard relationship between the press and a buisness that didn't want information leaked, there would have been no public discussion like this. It would have been behind closed doors and much meaner. Or the teams would have just taken efforts to limit Slasher's access and never talked to him about it at all. I think this discussion took place because Slasher is friends with everyone in the Esports industry and a lot of people are not happy with the way he is reporting on them. I was really surprised at how unified all the points of view are between the team owners. Even Sir Scoots is calling Slasher out publicly on twitter for ignoring the "Owned.tv not paying people" story, which Scoots claims almost everyone knew about. I was really surprised by that, but it seems that everyone is pretty grumpy about this issue, even his close friends. People can focus on the media and press issues if they want. But from where I am standing, I think we are seeing a group of good friends trying to figure out how to remain friends and all do their jobs. A lot of the team owners, like Alex Garfield and Jason Lake, put a ton of time and personal money into these teams. They care a lot and it is coming to the point where their personal relationship with Slasher cannot remain the same with the current business relationship. Or to put it another way, my father has had some really good friends cost him a lot of money in a business deal. They are not friends any more and it still bums him out 15 years later.
Sorry about jour fathers situation mate.
On the EG topic, I wich I could buy that but i'm too old and cynical to do it.
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On January 19 2013 03:05 Me jan wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2013 02:54 Plansix wrote:On January 18 2013 13:43 Me jan wrote:On January 18 2013 13:24 coverpunch wrote:On January 18 2013 13:12 Irre wrote:
I have to say I'm fairly unbiased in this, but I just listened to the whole exchange and Alex Garfield was extremely disrespectful and took everything way too personally. Was really nasty, and should not have been had on a public show like that. It really came off as a classic EG gang up on someone session. I don't think Slasher necessarily is completely right or wrong on the matter, but he certainly didn't deserve that after coming on knowing that he would have a lot of people coming at him. Ultimately, its the Organizations responsibility to either protect their content or if they aren't happy take it up with the organization he represents (gamespot). He is a reporter and he is doing his job, RIGHT OR WRONG. In general, he can be doing more to help esports I guess as a writer, but people do appreciate his reporting. Also, demonizing him over a few leaks of information when he has been working for and in the industry for so long was not that cool. TB and Nazgul were a lot more rational and respectful, so nothing bad to say about them. EG really needs to get over the fact that they can't control every little bit of PR. Its a bigger world now, and no one can do that anymore. EG seems to be doing quite well regardless. I have to correct you that it wasn't an EG gang up since Alex Garfield did tell his players not to interject into the debate specifically to avoid the appearance of ganging up. When you play the "don't jump in, I'll take him alone" card, it's not a gang up. Slasher was in the EGshow and Garfield pretty much knew every one elses opinions. It was ganging up, read some group psycology or w/e. It was the wrong place and wrong time to take that turn of the discussion and he should have known better. To be fair to Garfield, he did tell his team members to stay out of the discussion(see Idra's post in Naz'Gul's blog) to avoid ganging up on Slasher. Also, if this were a standard relationship between the press and a buisness that didn't want information leaked, there would have been no public discussion like this. It would have been behind closed doors and much meaner. Or the teams would have just taken efforts to limit Slasher's access and never talked to him about it at all. I think this discussion took place because Slasher is friends with everyone in the Esports industry and a lot of people are not happy with the way he is reporting on them. I was really surprised at how unified all the points of view are between the team owners. Even Sir Scoots is calling Slasher out publicly on twitter for ignoring the "Owned.tv not paying people" story, which Scoots claims almost everyone knew about. I was really surprised by that, but it seems that everyone is pretty grumpy about this issue, even his close friends. People can focus on the media and press issues if they want. But from where I am standing, I think we are seeing a group of good friends trying to figure out how to remain friends and all do their jobs. A lot of the team owners, like Alex Garfield and Jason Lake, put a ton of time and personal money into these teams. They care a lot and it is coming to the point where their personal relationship with Slasher cannot remain the same with the current business relationship. Or to put it another way, my father has had some really good friends cost him a lot of money in a business deal. They are not friends any more and it still bums him out 15 years later. Sorry about jour fathers situation mate. On the EG topic, I wich I could buy that but i'm too old and cynical to do it.
It is the nature of the beast and he said it was a mistake. Money can quickly ruin friendships. Hell, it can ruin families more often than not.
If you think of the heads of the teams as small business owners, rather than the huge sports franchises, I think their argument is a lot more reasonable. That and their relationship to Slasher as a reporter is not a traditional one. I don't think EG is trying to control the press or media, but just trying to balance the books and not have to take a really hard line with an old friend.
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On January 19 2013 03:18 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2013 03:05 Me jan wrote:On January 19 2013 02:54 Plansix wrote:On January 18 2013 13:43 Me jan wrote:On January 18 2013 13:24 coverpunch wrote:On January 18 2013 13:12 Irre wrote:
I have to say I'm fairly unbiased in this, but I just listened to the whole exchange and Alex Garfield was extremely disrespectful and took everything way too personally. Was really nasty, and should not have been had on a public show like that. It really came off as a classic EG gang up on someone session. I don't think Slasher necessarily is completely right or wrong on the matter, but he certainly didn't deserve that after coming on knowing that he would have a lot of people coming at him. Ultimately, its the Organizations responsibility to either protect their content or if they aren't happy take it up with the organization he represents (gamespot). He is a reporter and he is doing his job, RIGHT OR WRONG. In general, he can be doing more to help esports I guess as a writer, but people do appreciate his reporting. Also, demonizing him over a few leaks of information when he has been working for and in the industry for so long was not that cool. TB and Nazgul were a lot more rational and respectful, so nothing bad to say about them. EG really needs to get over the fact that they can't control every little bit of PR. Its a bigger world now, and no one can do that anymore. EG seems to be doing quite well regardless. I have to correct you that it wasn't an EG gang up since Alex Garfield did tell his players not to interject into the debate specifically to avoid the appearance of ganging up. When you play the "don't jump in, I'll take him alone" card, it's not a gang up. Slasher was in the EGshow and Garfield pretty much knew every one elses opinions. It was ganging up, read some group psycology or w/e. It was the wrong place and wrong time to take that turn of the discussion and he should have known better. To be fair to Garfield, he did tell his team members to stay out of the discussion(see Idra's post in Naz'Gul's blog) to avoid ganging up on Slasher. Also, if this were a standard relationship between the press and a buisness that didn't want information leaked, there would have been no public discussion like this. It would have been behind closed doors and much meaner. Or the teams would have just taken efforts to limit Slasher's access and never talked to him about it at all. I think this discussion took place because Slasher is friends with everyone in the Esports industry and a lot of people are not happy with the way he is reporting on them. I was really surprised at how unified all the points of view are between the team owners. Even Sir Scoots is calling Slasher out publicly on twitter for ignoring the "Owned.tv not paying people" story, which Scoots claims almost everyone knew about. I was really surprised by that, but it seems that everyone is pretty grumpy about this issue, even his close friends. People can focus on the media and press issues if they want. But from where I am standing, I think we are seeing a group of good friends trying to figure out how to remain friends and all do their jobs. A lot of the team owners, like Alex Garfield and Jason Lake, put a ton of time and personal money into these teams. They care a lot and it is coming to the point where their personal relationship with Slasher cannot remain the same with the current business relationship. Or to put it another way, my father has had some really good friends cost him a lot of money in a business deal. They are not friends any more and it still bums him out 15 years later. Sorry about jour fathers situation mate. On the EG topic, I wich I could buy that but i'm too old and cynical to do it. It is the nature of the beast and he said it was a mistake. Money can quickly ruin friendships. Hell, it can ruin families more often than not. If you think of the heads of the teams as small business owners, rather than the huge sports franchises, I think their argument is a lot more reasonable. That and their relationship to Slasher as a reporter is not a traditional one. I don't think EG is trying to control the press or media, but just trying to balance the books and not have to take a really hard line with an old friend.
I still don't get why it's so hard for TL and EG to mimic what TB did. Maybe he understands the business better.
If I was friends with someone treating me like that in public i would be freaking out, because that's not what friends do. They have had that discussion before, Alex mentioned they had talked about it 3-5 times. I guess he didn't get the answer he was looking for then.
Edit: I think we could have this discussion for years since we got such diffrent views on things. Thanks for the talk tho. Peace.
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Oh wow, I watched the episode and I can't believe how harsh people are reacting considering what was said. Before seeing it I thought it must have been terrible. Sure, Alex took it a bit far, but he was clearly emotional about the subject. On the other hand I could really tell that the people on the show, InControl, DJ Wheat are trying to act a bit more mature and with more respect for their guests and I think that is great. It is a shame that even when they lead the show in a much more mature way it still gets all this drama.
On the subject. I think that the way people expressed their opinion was quite biased and more based on what their own goals and motivations are than instead of trying to reach some consensus. Normally I would agree, a journalist is a neutral party that needs to operate in complete freedom. But guess what, Slasher is not covering civil wars in Mali, he is covering e-sports on a website that is known to fire people for writing negative reviews. Also it is a website that is making money from ads (eyeballs on their site). I can agree with Alex, Slasher is contesting them for viewers and feeding of their content and they are not getting much in return. It is not so hard to see that this leads to a lot of frustration, considering how lazily written the articles are.
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On January 19 2013 20:27 Domus wrote:
Oh wow, I watched the episode and I can't believe how harsh people are reacting considering what was said. Before seeing it I thought it must have been terrible. Sure, Alex took it a bit far, but he was clearly emotional about the subject. On the other hand I could really tell that the people on the show, InControl, DJ Wheat are trying to act a bit more mature and with more respect for their guests and I think that is great. It is a shame that even when they lead the show in a much more mature way it still gets all this drama.
On the subject. I think that the way people expressed their opinion was quite biased and more based on what their own goals and motivations are than instead of trying to reach some consensus. Normally I would agree, a journalist is a neutral party that needs to operate in complete freedom. But guess what, Slasher is not covering civil wars in Mali, he is covering e-sports on a website that is known to fire people for writing negative reviews. Also it is a website that is making money from ads (eyeballs on their site). I can agree with Alex, Slasher is contesting them for viewers and feeding of their content and they are not getting much in return. It is not so hard to see that this leads to a lot of frustration, considering how lazily written the articles are.
I found InControl to be pretty condescending and rude, like his remark about it being outside Slasher's bounds or whatever, but I constantly heard all the EG players mixing what a journalist does, and what a publicist does. EG does not sign Slasher's paychecks, and even if Slasher leaking information may have hurt EG, it is not his fault word gets out and he's the one to write an article on it. If teams can unite against Slasher (lol), they can surely do a better job and keeping these type of announcements in house. DJWheat did a decent job overall, I feel like during these debates/discussions he can do a slightly better job moderating in general.
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On January 19 2013 20:41 BryanSC wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2013 20:27 Domus wrote:
Oh wow, I watched the episode and I can't believe how harsh people are reacting considering what was said. Before seeing it I thought it must have been terrible. Sure, Alex took it a bit far, but he was clearly emotional about the subject. On the other hand I could really tell that the people on the show, InControl, DJ Wheat are trying to act a bit more mature and with more respect for their guests and I think that is great. It is a shame that even when they lead the show in a much more mature way it still gets all this drama.
On the subject. I think that the way people expressed their opinion was quite biased and more based on what their own goals and motivations are than instead of trying to reach some consensus. Normally I would agree, a journalist is a neutral party that needs to operate in complete freedom. But guess what, Slasher is not covering civil wars in Mali, he is covering e-sports on a website that is known to fire people for writing negative reviews. Also it is a website that is making money from ads (eyeballs on their site). I can agree with Alex, Slasher is contesting them for viewers and feeding of their content and they are not getting much in return. It is not so hard to see that this leads to a lot of frustration, considering how lazily written the articles are. I found InControl to be pretty condescending and rude, like his remark about it being outside Slasher's bounds or whatever, but I constantly heard all the EG players mixing what a journalist does, and what a publicist does. EG does not sign Slasher's paychecks, and even if Slasher leaking information may have hurt EG, it is not his fault word gets out and he's the one to write an article on it. If teams can unite against Slasher (lol), they can surely do a better job and keeping these type of announcements in house. DJWheat did a decent job overall, I feel like during these debates/discussions he can do a slightly better job moderating in general.
Hah, I thought InControl was quite tame. Sure, it is not Slasher's fault someone leaks, but Slasher is responsible for the how and when he puts information out. And Alex and TB said that they have no problem working with Slasher and providing him with exclusives/interviews that will benefit both parties. I just don't really see the point of stealing someones thunder except for his personal gain. This is not secret information that would not have come out if Slasher did not report it. This is not uncovering some great wrong in the industry, it is beating trustworthy organizations to the punch on their press releases. Hardly something I can respect or admire and hardly something that deserves "defense of the free press".
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After seeing the interview, i feel like everyone has valid points. The problem is neither journalism, or the "information-control", the problem is these two things colliding in our scene. You can't (or shouldn't) handle news about players etc like someone does in "real sport". Then again, Alex Gs approach is also stupid (give and take). You need to be more professional than that. As much as i don't like TB for his hipocrisy (scolding community for insults etc, when in fact he was warned on more than one occasion for that), but he had the most valid points and was surprisingly objective on the matter, except for some spikes.
I don't think Slasher did something wrong, but i feel like he could've done alot better. I agree when TB or all the others say that his approach is kinda lazy, and that he can do better. Guess we all (including Slasher) know that.
In the end, it was a nice discussion (which imo is needed) to resolve some of these "problems". Because we're setting the pace, we can not follow "normal" sportsjournalism due to the "unique" way esports is founded (as was explained more than once in the video).
Sadly, the one guy with the most influence (arguably), Alex G, behaved like a stupid kid. To me it feels like he was actively trying to stirr up more drama, and when Slasher did not bite, he just resolved to insulting/bashing. Somehow his whole appearance escalated without Slasher even responding, which tells me that he never wanted to have a discussion, but just vent steam.
Props (and thanks) to iNcontroL, Idra, Slasher and TB for that discussion, which was really interesting to me.
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Wow, listened to this finally. Slasher is so bad at defending himself. Incredibly bad. He's in the right totally and still doesn't manage to fend off a guy who in 1 second goes from a stupid accusation to generally just shitting on Slasher. Disagreeing with the premise of the question is something you should learn to do Slasher, amongst other things. Maybe clarify your own thoughts before talking.
Alex Garfield should NEVER be on something live. I've read really good (and bad) posts from him, but every time i've heard him on a show he comes across as a complete asshole without any self insight whatsoever. I really like most the EG players, but Alex Garfield is really not likeable. Strange for the head of a marketing agency as so many call it these days that he's unable to maintain a positive image.
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sorry but if you are too stupid to keep important information to yourself and the team than its your fault. YOUR FAULT.
i dont understand how you can think that slasher has to keep if for himself because he takes away pageviews. its obvious all about money and eg is just mad about not getting the money they wanted to have
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On January 20 2013 22:25 TRAP[yoo] wrote:
sorry but if you are too stupid to keep important information to yourself and the team than its your fault. YOUR FAULT.
i dont understand how you can think that slasher has to keep if for himself because he takes away pageviews. its obvious all about money and eg is just mad about not getting the money they wanted to have
I think you misunderstand how/from who Slasher gets his breaking news stories. On LO3 the following night; djwheat asked him a hypothetical on how he gets his information. I forget what exactly it was verbatim but it was essentially "very unlikely for a representative/player of a signing team to tell him breaking news beforehand".
Basically it broke down like this : Say TL and EG are going after Dimaga; Dimaga accepts Liquid's offer and informs EG of it. Then someone from EG would maybe say something to slasher etc. Obviously this example is fiction but it is basically what happens.
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It's rather easy for Totalbiscuit to say all these things for a new team that has few players and probably not even close to the amount of staff Liquid and EG employ, from Nazgul or Garfields point of view, if you have a reporter running around trying to get information out of every one of your 50 or so (vague guesstimation) employees, keeping a lid on things must be quite difficult, especially if Slasher offers some form of compensation for players or employees that come from poor backgrounds (not saying this is happening, I have no idea what his tactics are to get information the CEO's of the teams clearly don't want released).
Slasher refused to listen to reason even after Alex Garfield offered him more then adequate compensation, the way he was using the concepts of freedom of the press was just pathetic, he was trying to make it sound like he had reported on some controversial piece of news, while it was just a lazily written early report on a player transfer.
If he'd made an article about Own3d and got into trouble with someone for that, the community and teamleaders would have been behind him and his stupid freedom of the press arguments would have had some factual basis.
As it is, it seems Destiny is better at journalism then Slasher.
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Of course EG and TL are pissed at Slasher and they have every right to be. And everyone here saying that its EG's fault for their own information leaking is truly stupid. For an organization that size it is very hard to keep information private from a person who is friends with players on the team NDA's and all of that be damned. I work for a very large mining equipment company up in the oil patch. In our contracts we have NDA's and all of that, as do employee's of Syncrude, Suncor, Shell, CNRL, Kerl Lake etc... When something happens on a job site here pretty much everyone knows about it within 24 hours. There are roughly 10,000 people on each of the main sites up here all of us with signed NDA's. How does this information get out? Friends talk to eachother and stuff slips in passing conversation, the more you try to keep a secret as Wheat alluded to the harder it is to keep a secret. (Wheat said something to the extent of he was told at certain events some sensitive information that was blirted out and he said, "Oh great and now I know too.")
Aside from firing employee's caught leaking information which would be fairly extreme I do not think its plausible as organizations get larger and larger to censor these sorts of things. What Garfield and Nazgul wanted was for Slasher to work with them and he'd get the exclusive scoop. Hell I don't think they would mind if Slasher timed his articles to be released minutes after their announcements as supplementary information. Picture Slasher having an interview with the player and EG's management up minutes after an announcement is made and linked to his article in their announcement on their page. He would get pretty damn solid numbers doing things that way without burning every single bridge he has with team owners. That was Garfield's argument, he was willing to give those exclusives in exchange for Slasher not ruining the hype of their announcement. Now he's not willing to work with him at all and in the long run as more E-sports reporters get onto the scene I think that Slasher will have a harder time down the road now that these bridges have been burned.
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Teams aren't going to shut out reporters, like any legitimate competitive scene that gets bigger (unless SC 2 is stagnating which is probably more likely), you'll have more coverage and more leaks like this. It's beyond common, for people to flail around complaining about it and talking about banning reporters is actually comical. It WILL get worse, and if it doesn't? We'll know what happened to the SC 2 scene most likely.
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This situation isn't really comparable to any other business-journalist relationship. The reason teams are mad at Slasher is because he is taking away pageviews (=money) from the teams, which makes the scene he is reporting and writing about weaker.
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I think this all is just stupid.
EG not able to keep a secret a secret, infromation gets leaked by EG and now they blame the press Oo. This is just, and sorry that I have to say this, US american stereotype at its best. And Slasher did all right, its his job and he did his job well cause he leaked it first. If there where no slasher sb else would leak it.
I hope EG / Slasher are reading this.
EG do your homework keep information in your house.
Slasher keep on going.
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On January 22 2013 00:05 tadL wrote:
I think this all is just stupid.
EG not able to keep a secret a secret, infromation gets leaked by EG and now they blame the press Oo. This is just, and sorry that I have to say this, US american stereotype at its best. And Slasher did all right, its his job and he did his job well cause he leaked it first. If there where no slasher sb else would leak it.
I hope EG / Slasher are reading this.
EG do your homework keep information in your house.
Slasher keep on going.
It seems you don't comprehend how difficult it is to keep information for a big team like EG or TL, Axiom has only 5 players, keeping information inside should be a lot easier.
About 2 weeks after the Hobbit premiered the DVD screener (an early DVD copy of the movie for rental stores to preview) for the movie was uploaded to the internets.
Are Peter Jackson and Universal complete idiots now for making DVD screeners? An established practice to make sure the movie ships to the rental stores in time, whereas for the Hobbit there where undoubtedly many people waiting to see that movie, was there anyone who really benefited from Slasher releasing his news early? Apart from himself (that is if the embargo doesn't hold, otherwise I doubt we'll be hearing much of him anymore, it's not like any gamer over 12 gives a shit about the site he works for)?
For a player contract to get signed so many people have to get involved, a lot of which are not on EG/TL's payroll that someone like Slasher, who should be fairly familiar with these people due to his whole E-sports history can easily get at least one person to turn, as evidenced by the other pointless "scoops" he made.
Slasher is literally taking money away from E-sports teams to give to his overlords that coudn't care less about it, if you want him to continue these 2 line bullshit articles for easy pageviews, you must fucking hate E-sports.
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EPT
