On August 24 2011 09:37 Porcelina wrote: The 'analysis' concerning 1/1/1 was a disgrace.
If they think that the Protoss not playing conservatively enough with his expansion is the issue, there is no reason to listen to them.
And mocking the discussion on TL or on forums. If you want to compare relative skill levels, where would we see a bigger skill gap? Between a random Master level player and PainUser or between PainUser and a Code A player? Because I am pretty sure that the skill gap is way, way bigger in the latter example.
I also like how djWHEAT had this as a big discussion point for the show but had no facts to contribute. Because there certainly are facts galore you could supply regardless of skill level, such as win ratios of PvT in general, win ratios of PvT in GSL, there are stats concerning 1/1/1 PvT in GSL. Just saying that it is due to a metagame switch cannot really constitute an argument at this point. I am not saying that it is imbalanced, but honestly the level of analysis, based on its merits rather than the name of the analysts, was so low I am pretty sure that notable members of this community that are far from professionals would be a lot more enlightening.
If this show is only to hear rather famous people light heartedly discuss game balance without actually giving any real thought, consideration or preperation that is cool enough. I would certainly listen to the show just to hear the respective opinions on events in the community; it is certainly the main reason I tune in to SotG. But the stated differential was supposedly to be more informative, and in that regards this topic was a definite failure.
So you disagree with incontrol's opinion as a progamer about a build he sees on ladder a lot and therefore come to the conlusion that the show sucks. A bit of a kneejerk reaction, no?
I think he is just saying they basically ignored everything the koreans are saying.
People need to stop with "the koreans" line. 2 Tweets and one article doesn't represent the collective of all korean SC2 players.
That article is quoted from Gisado who is very in touch with the korean community. Well it certainly doesn't represent every korean progamer, I think making the assumption that it represents only a small minority of them is not a good idea either.
On August 24 2011 09:58 KadaverBB wrote: Where will the vod be uploaded? Im pretty stupid at finding stuff, and the OP isnt getting updated that much :D
No disagreement there, just would have been nice for them to give a counter-argument to the points that the koreans made and stats from GSL.
It would have been nice for them to actually discuss the timings, possible unit mixes, ways to delay the terran, the importance of perhaps having a pylon outside your base that you can warp in zealots to flank with etc. hell anything would have been better than what we got.
even though the terran didn't execute properly hardly anyone is talking about rushing to 3 colossus without range and engaging before the terran reaches your natural.
I can't really blame DJ wheat but when he gives the hosts the topics for the day it would be nice if they did a little research on it like Slasher does.
That build assumes that your terran isn't scouting you whatsoever. If he sees you aren't expanding he's not going to push out. He'll either get vikings or a ton of banshees, one base colossi can't support stalkers at all. Then when your main dries out he floats his CC to the natural and still has the same exact one base econ while you're long distance mining.
No disagreement there, just would have been nice for them to give a counter-argument to the points that the koreans made and stats from GSL.
It would have been nice for them to actually discuss the timings, possible unit mixes, ways to delay the terran, the importance of perhaps having a pylon outside your base that you can warp in zealots to flank with etc. hell anything would have been better than what we got.
even though the terran didn't execute properly hardly anyone is talking about rushing to 3 colossus without range and engaging before the terran reaches your natural.
I can't really blame DJ wheat but when he gives the hosts the topics for the day it would be nice if they did a little research on it like Slasher does.
That build assumes that your terran isn't scouting you whatsoever. If he sees you aren't expanding he's not going to push out. He'll either get vikings or a ton of banshees, one base colossi can't support stalkers at all. Then when your main dries out he floats his CC to the natural and still has the same exact one base econ while you're long distance mining.
Haha I didn't say it was the end-all buid, and yes that is exactly what makes the 1-1-1 so hard, the build used in the replays absolutely crushes a "normal" 1-1-1 when executed blindly but fails miserable if the terran responds to your play at all. None of this was discussed in the show. That is my complaint.
On August 24 2011 09:37 Porcelina wrote: The 'analysis' concerning 1/1/1 was a disgrace.
If they think that the Protoss not playing conservatively enough with his expansion is the issue, there is no reason to listen to them.
And mocking the discussion on TL or on forums. If you want to compare relative skill levels, where would we see a bigger skill gap? Between a random Master level player and PainUser or between PainUser and a Code A player? Because I am pretty sure that the skill gap is way, way bigger in the latter example.
I also like how djWHEAT had this as a big discussion point for the show but had no facts to contribute. Because there certainly are facts galore you could supply regardless of skill level, such as win ratios of PvT in general, win ratios of PvT in GSL, there are stats concerning 1/1/1 PvT in GSL. Just saying that it is due to a metagame switch cannot really constitute an argument at this point. I am not saying that it is imbalanced, but honestly the level of analysis, based on its merits rather than the name of the analysts, was so low I am pretty sure that notable members of this community that are far from professionals would be a lot more enlightening.
If this show is only to hear rather famous people light heartedly discuss game balance without actually giving any real thought, consideration or preperation that is cool enough. I would certainly listen to the show just to hear the respective opinions on events in the community; it is certainly the main reason I tune in to SotG. But the stated differential was supposedly to be more informative, and in that regards this topic was a definite failure.
So you disagree with incontrol's opinion as a progamer about a build he sees on ladder a lot and therefore come to the conlusion that the show sucks. A bit of a kneejerk reaction, no?
I think he is just saying they basically ignored everything the koreans are saying.
People need to stop with "the koreans" line. 2 Tweets and one article doesn't represent the collective of all korean SC2 players.
That article is quoted from Gisado who is very in touch with the korean community. Well it certainly doesn't represent every korean progamer, I think making the assumption that it represents only a small minority of them is not a good idea either.
I would also add that according to how they react in-game, i think they pretty much agree with the all "expand fast" thingy. See Killer at IEM for example. I would actually like the opinion of europeans player like socke and Mana. I wouldn't be surprise that they think like the koreans.
On August 24 2011 09:37 Porcelina wrote: The 'analysis' concerning 1/1/1 was a disgrace.
If they think that the Protoss not playing conservatively enough with his expansion is the issue, there is no reason to listen to them.
And mocking the discussion on TL or on forums. If you want to compare relative skill levels, where would we see a bigger skill gap? Between a random Master level player and PainUser or between PainUser and a Code A player? Because I am pretty sure that the skill gap is way, way bigger in the latter example.
I also like how djWHEAT had this as a big discussion point for the show but had no facts to contribute. Because there certainly are facts galore you could supply regardless of skill level, such as win ratios of PvT in general, win ratios of PvT in GSL, there are stats concerning 1/1/1 PvT in GSL. Just saying that it is due to a metagame switch cannot really constitute an argument at this point. I am not saying that it is imbalanced, but honestly the level of analysis, based on its merits rather than the name of the analysts, was so low I am pretty sure that notable members of this community that are far from professionals would be a lot more enlightening.
If this show is only to hear rather famous people light heartedly discuss game balance without actually giving any real thought, consideration or preperation that is cool enough. I would certainly listen to the show just to hear the respective opinions on events in the community; it is certainly the main reason I tune in to SotG. But the stated differential was supposedly to be more informative, and in that regards this topic was a definite failure.
So you disagree with incontrol's opinion as a progamer about a build he sees on ladder a lot and therefore come to the conlusion that the show sucks. A bit of a kneejerk reaction, no?
I think he is just saying they basically ignored everything the koreans are saying.
People need to stop with "the koreans" line. 2 Tweets and one article doesn't represent the collective of all korean SC2 players.
That article is quoted from Gisado who is very in touch with the korean community. Well it certainly doesn't represent every korean progamer, I think making the assumption that it represents only a small minority of them is not a good idea either.
I would also add that according to how they react in-game, i think they pretty much agree with the all "expand fast" thingy. See Killer at IEM for example. I would actually like the opinion of europeans player like socke and Mana. I wouldn't be surprise that they think like the koreans.
Socke actually held 1-1-1 in the very same event, and also he talked about it in short interview during finals... paying attention to the scene, are we?
On August 24 2011 09:37 Porcelina wrote: The 'analysis' concerning 1/1/1 was a disgrace.
If they think that the Protoss not playing conservatively enough with his expansion is the issue, there is no reason to listen to them.
And mocking the discussion on TL or on forums. If you want to compare relative skill levels, where would we see a bigger skill gap? Between a random Master level player and PainUser or between PainUser and a Code A player? Because I am pretty sure that the skill gap is way, way bigger in the latter example.
I also like how djWHEAT had this as a big discussion point for the show but had no facts to contribute. Because there certainly are facts galore you could supply regardless of skill level, such as win ratios of PvT in general, win ratios of PvT in GSL, there are stats concerning 1/1/1 PvT in GSL. Just saying that it is due to a metagame switch cannot really constitute an argument at this point. I am not saying that it is imbalanced, but honestly the level of analysis, based on its merits rather than the name of the analysts, was so low I am pretty sure that notable members of this community that are far from professionals would be a lot more enlightening.
If this show is only to hear rather famous people light heartedly discuss game balance without actually giving any real thought, consideration or preperation that is cool enough. I would certainly listen to the show just to hear the respective opinions on events in the community; it is certainly the main reason I tune in to SotG. But the stated differential was supposedly to be more informative, and in that regards this topic was a definite failure.
So you disagree with incontrol's opinion as a progamer about a build he sees on ladder a lot and therefore come to the conlusion that the show sucks. A bit of a kneejerk reaction, no?
I think he is just saying they basically ignored everything the koreans are saying.
People need to stop with "the koreans" line. 2 Tweets and one article doesn't represent the collective of all korean SC2 players.
That article is quoted from Gisado who is very in touch with the korean community. Well it certainly doesn't represent every korean progamer, I think making the assumption that it represents only a small minority of them is not a good idea either.
I would also add that according to how they react in-game, i think they pretty much agree with the all "expand fast" thingy. See Killer at IEM for example. I would actually like the opinion of europeans player like socke and Mana. I wouldn't be surprise that they think like the koreans.
Socke actually held 1-1-1 in the very same event, and also he talked about it in short interview during finals... paying attention to the scene, are we?
Maybe some people don't have time to watch every single games ? Instead of saying pointless thing you could have simply answered my question right ?
On August 24 2011 09:37 Porcelina wrote: The 'analysis' concerning 1/1/1 was a disgrace.
If they think that the Protoss not playing conservatively enough with his expansion is the issue, there is no reason to listen to them.
And mocking the discussion on TL or on forums. If you want to compare relative skill levels, where would we see a bigger skill gap? Between a random Master level player and PainUser or between PainUser and a Code A player? Because I am pretty sure that the skill gap is way, way bigger in the latter example.
I'd tend to agree with this, if I wanted to hear about how it's all metagame, no imbalance could possibly exist, and protoss players just need to learn to adapt, I'd read the TL thread.
I was hoping to get a little more insight into why it's currently a problem, not have what I was already reading be repeated to me by professional players.
On August 24 2011 09:58 KadaverBB wrote: Where will the vod be uploaded? Im pretty stupid at finding stuff, and the OP isnt getting updated that much :D
If this show is only to hear rather famous people light heartedly discuss game balance without actually giving any real thought, consideration or preperation that is cool enough.
Unfortunately this is kind of what ITG has become. When I first heard about the show I expected some well prepared deep, serious discussion from top educated pros.
If this show is only to hear rather famous people light heartedly discuss game balance without actually giving any real thought, consideration or preperation that is cool enough.
Unfortunately this is kind of what ITG has become. When I first heard about the show I expected some well prepared deep, serious discussion from top educated pros.
Me too, I thought they would distinguish themselves from SotG in this way. It just seemed like a segment that wasn't prepared for at all despite it being one of the major topics on the show for the day. There was nothing "inside the game" about it. Incontrol might as well have been a forum poster with his response, "its a meta-game build that protoss have a hard time with."
Really!? jeeze thanks Incontrol so glad i could get that glimpse "inside the game" from you.
ps. I don't hate Incontrol and I love the show, which is why I am posting this criticism. Maybe I want the show to be something it was never intended to be? However I have to believe the shows intention was not to be another Live on Three focused solely on SC2, which is what today felt like... except Slasher usually preps better for his segments.
EPT
