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On August 24 2011 14:05 Snorkle wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2011 13:47 nvs. wrote:If this show is only to hear rather famous people light heartedly discuss game balance without actually giving any real thought, consideration or preperation that is cool enough. Unfortunately this is kind of what ITG has become. When I first heard about the show I expected some well prepared deep, serious discussion from top educated pros. Me too, I thought they would distinguish themselves from SotG in this way. It just seemed like a segment that wasn't prepared for at all despite it being one of the major topics on the show for the day. There was nothing "inside the game" about it. Incontrol might as well have been a forum poster with his response, "its a meta-game build that protoss have a hard time with." Really!? jeeze thanks Incontrol so glad i could get that glimpse "inside the game" from you. ps. I don't hate Incontrol and I love the show, which is why I am posting this criticism. Maybe I want the show to be something it was never intended to be? However I have to believe the shows intention was not to be another Live on Three focused solely on SC2, which is what today felt like... except Slasher usually preps better for his segments.
I really feel the hosts should look into the subjects a bit more carefully before the show. Painuser said the Terran's don't research cloak for their 1-1-1 all-in and only do it if they fall back for the second wave when in reality was completely opposite in MC vs Puma game 1 on Xel'Naga. Puma immediately researched cloak when his starport finished, then harassed a bit with no great of a success and when the all-in came MC was still struggling to hold the first wave and the second wave crushed him.
I'm really disappointed that the hosts argue their points that are beside the topic discussed on forums and DjWheat specifically referenced the forum discussion about this build. Surely the discussion was focused on the new Korean TvP 1-1-1 timing with marine,tank,bashee,raven all-in we've recently seen.
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Anyone have an idea when the mp3 will be up?
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On August 24 2011 14:05 Snorkle wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2011 13:47 nvs. wrote:If this show is only to hear rather famous people light heartedly discuss game balance without actually giving any real thought, consideration or preperation that is cool enough. Unfortunately this is kind of what ITG has become. When I first heard about the show I expected some well prepared deep, serious discussion from top educated pros. Me too, I thought they would distinguish themselves from SotG in this way. It just seemed like a segment that wasn't prepared for at all despite it being one of the major topics on the show for the day.
I also hoped this would be more than just a talk show. On top of that iNcontroL is being more and more obnoxious. If his intend is to make himself look worse and worse then this will make 2 of my favourite SC2 shows unwatchable :/.
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Liked the cnc3 part  .
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On August 24 2011 18:51 Darksteel wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2011 14:05 Snorkle wrote:On August 24 2011 13:47 nvs. wrote:If this show is only to hear rather famous people light heartedly discuss game balance without actually giving any real thought, consideration or preperation that is cool enough. Unfortunately this is kind of what ITG has become. When I first heard about the show I expected some well prepared deep, serious discussion from top educated pros. Me too, I thought they would distinguish themselves from SotG in this way. It just seemed like a segment that wasn't prepared for at all despite it being one of the major topics on the show for the day. There was nothing "inside the game" about it. Incontrol might as well have been a forum poster with his response, "its a meta-game build that protoss have a hard time with." Really!? jeeze thanks Incontrol so glad i could get that glimpse "inside the game" from you. ps. I don't hate Incontrol and I love the show, which is why I am posting this criticism. Maybe I want the show to be something it was never intended to be? However I have to believe the shows intention was not to be another Live on Three focused solely on SC2, which is what today felt like... except Slasher usually preps better for his segments. I really feel the hosts should look into the subjects a bit more carefully before the show. Painuser said the Terran's don't research cloak for their 1-1-1 all-in and only do it if they fall back for the second wave when in reality was completely opposite in MC vs Puma game 1 on Xel'Naga. Puma immediately researched cloak when his starport finished, then harassed a bit with no great of a success and when the all-in came MC was still struggling to hold the first wave and the second wave crushed him. I'm really disappointed that the hosts argue their points that are beside the topic discussed on forums and DjWheat specifically referenced the forum discussion about this build. Surely the discussion was focused on the new Korean TvP 1-1-1 timing with marine,tank,bashee,raven all-in we've recently seen.
i agree. but this is the problem with talking to people who admittedly didnt know that ultras cant be mind controlled. as they admitted on the show they dont follow the game super closely, they just play the best they can. which is half the problem with foreigners i guess :D
i wasnt sure if i liked the show or not for the first few weeks, i do prefer the sotg style, but at the same time, they promised to not just be a sotg rip off :D its an entertaining show but that really kinda off sets from the idea that they wanted it to be serious discussion.
i dont like that geoff was being 'so' mean to painuser this week. but at the same time, geoff is the only guy showing up whos seen some relevant recent game, has playing experience, and wants to talk / seems interested. idra knows everything about XvZ but, like tyler on sotg, if it doesnt directly affect him, he doesnt give a shit. then painuser looks a bit silly. saying that he doesnt think robo is a good answer, but at the same time says cloak is bad for the 1/1/1.
i know all the hosts are busy, but if they want a real talk show i think they all need to prepare for the topics a little better, and maybe they should also drop the call in. maybe djwheat can arrange for a 'serious' caller each show. either a player or just someone involved in the game. most of the current callers just get laughed off the show, which while mean, is kinda the obvious response.
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On August 24 2011 21:10 turdburgler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2011 18:51 Darksteel wrote:On August 24 2011 14:05 Snorkle wrote:On August 24 2011 13:47 nvs. wrote:If this show is only to hear rather famous people light heartedly discuss game balance without actually giving any real thought, consideration or preperation that is cool enough. Unfortunately this is kind of what ITG has become. When I first heard about the show I expected some well prepared deep, serious discussion from top educated pros. Me too, I thought they would distinguish themselves from SotG in this way. It just seemed like a segment that wasn't prepared for at all despite it being one of the major topics on the show for the day. There was nothing "inside the game" about it. Incontrol might as well have been a forum poster with his response, "its a meta-game build that protoss have a hard time with." Really!? jeeze thanks Incontrol so glad i could get that glimpse "inside the game" from you. ps. I don't hate Incontrol and I love the show, which is why I am posting this criticism. Maybe I want the show to be something it was never intended to be? However I have to believe the shows intention was not to be another Live on Three focused solely on SC2, which is what today felt like... except Slasher usually preps better for his segments. I really feel the hosts should look into the subjects a bit more carefully before the show. Painuser said the Terran's don't research cloak for their 1-1-1 all-in and only do it if they fall back for the second wave when in reality was completely opposite in MC vs Puma game 1 on Xel'Naga. Puma immediately researched cloak when his starport finished, then harassed a bit with no great of a success and when the all-in came MC was still struggling to hold the first wave and the second wave crushed him. I'm really disappointed that the hosts argue their points that are beside the topic discussed on forums and DjWheat specifically referenced the forum discussion about this build. Surely the discussion was focused on the new Korean TvP 1-1-1 timing with marine,tank,bashee,raven all-in we've recently seen. i agree. but this is the problem with talking to people who admittedly didnt know that ultras cant be mind controlled. as they admitted on the show they dont follow the game super closely, they just play the best they can. which is half the problem with foreigners i guess :D i wasnt sure if i liked the show or not for the first few weeks, i do prefer the sotg style, but at the same time, they promised to not just be a sotg rip off :D its an entertaining show but that really kinda off sets from the idea that they wanted it to be serious discussion. i dont like that geoff was being 'so' mean to painuser this week. but at the same time, geoff is the only guy showing up whos seen some relevant recent game, has playing experience, and wants to talk / seems interested. idra knows everything about XvZ but, like tyler on sotg, if it doesnt directly affect him, he doesnt give a shit. then painuser looks a bit silly. saying that he doesnt think robo is a good answer, but at the same time says cloak is bad for the 1/1/1. i know all the hosts are busy, but if they want a real talk show i think they all need to prepare for the topics a little better, and maybe they should also drop the call in. maybe djwheat can arrange for a 'serious' caller each show. either a player or just someone involved in the game. most of the current callers just get laughed off the show, which while mean, is kinda the obvious response.
Fun fact, you actually can mind control an ultralisk, but only if it's burrowed.
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On August 24 2011 21:10 turdburgler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2011 18:51 Darksteel wrote:On August 24 2011 14:05 Snorkle wrote:On August 24 2011 13:47 nvs. wrote:If this show is only to hear rather famous people light heartedly discuss game balance without actually giving any real thought, consideration or preperation that is cool enough. Unfortunately this is kind of what ITG has become. When I first heard about the show I expected some well prepared deep, serious discussion from top educated pros. Me too, I thought they would distinguish themselves from SotG in this way. It just seemed like a segment that wasn't prepared for at all despite it being one of the major topics on the show for the day. There was nothing "inside the game" about it. Incontrol might as well have been a forum poster with his response, "its a meta-game build that protoss have a hard time with." Really!? jeeze thanks Incontrol so glad i could get that glimpse "inside the game" from you. ps. I don't hate Incontrol and I love the show, which is why I am posting this criticism. Maybe I want the show to be something it was never intended to be? However I have to believe the shows intention was not to be another Live on Three focused solely on SC2, which is what today felt like... except Slasher usually preps better for his segments. I really feel the hosts should look into the subjects a bit more carefully before the show. Painuser said the Terran's don't research cloak for their 1-1-1 all-in and only do it if they fall back for the second wave when in reality was completely opposite in MC vs Puma game 1 on Xel'Naga. Puma immediately researched cloak when his starport finished, then harassed a bit with no great of a success and when the all-in came MC was still struggling to hold the first wave and the second wave crushed him. I'm really disappointed that the hosts argue their points that are beside the topic discussed on forums and DjWheat specifically referenced the forum discussion about this build. Surely the discussion was focused on the new Korean TvP 1-1-1 timing with marine,tank,bashee,raven all-in we've recently seen. i agree. but this is the problem with talking to people who admittedly didnt know that ultras cant be mind controlled. as they admitted on the show they dont follow the game super closely, they just play the best they can. which is half the problem with foreigners i guess :D i wasnt sure if i liked the show or not for the first few weeks, i do prefer the sotg style, but at the same time, they promised to not just be a sotg rip off :D its an entertaining show but that really kinda off sets from the idea that they wanted it to be serious discussion. i dont like that geoff was being 'so' mean to painuser this week. but at the same time, geoff is the only guy showing up whos seen some relevant recent game, has playing experience, and wants to talk / seems interested. idra knows everything about XvZ but, like tyler on sotg, if it doesnt directly affect him, he doesnt give a shit. then painuser looks a bit silly. saying that he doesnt think robo is a good answer, but at the same time says cloak is bad for the 1/1/1. i know all the hosts are busy, but if they want a real talk show i think they all need to prepare for the topics a little better, and maybe they should also drop the call in. maybe djwheat can arrange for a 'serious' caller each show. either a player or just someone involved in the game. most of the current callers just get laughed off the show, which while mean, is kinda the obvious response.
I would agree with this and what others are saying about lack of prep. It is a fun show wheat but right now it is basically SotG 2.0. The people on the show don't seem like they prepared at all prior to it (aside from Wheat obviously) and they are basically just hanging out and chatting. Nothing wrong with that, but as a constructive criticism I would just point out that is not what the show was intended to be, at least if I understand the intentions Wheat laid out correctly.
We don't expect these guys to watch every match, but anyone who watched IEM or has been watching GSL for the past 4-6 weeks knows cloak happens a fair amount in the 1/1/1 in korea. Also the article they were talking about on the show starts off with the premise that fast nexus or 1G nexus are the best ways to stop 1/1/1 because they have paid for themselves and more by the time 1/1/1 arrives, and in fact you will have more units out with these than if you had one based (this is the articles assertion not mine just to be clear). These topics weren't even touched on and would have required minimal prep time from the players on the show.
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On August 24 2011 13:14 JoeSchmoe wrote:
Who was the person that made a guide "proving" 15 nexus was the best counter to 1/1/1? I'm interested to see this.
I don't see how it's the counter when you wouldn't even scout it when the nexus goes up. Killer did it in IEM against SelecT. SelecT scouted it and just did a 4 rax all in and won (this happened in 2 games as Killer went 15 nexus 3 times)
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Great piece of knowledge from PainUser: if you don't scout cloaked banshee, don't build robo. So, I am supposed to know a) did terran build starport and b) did terran go for marine-tank-banshee or cloaked banshee. And I am supposed to know all of that BEFORE I BUILT A ROBO AND OBSERVER. That's very helpful!
I also liked the discussion about how protoss gets contained if he doesn't expand and whether or not does he actually need economy from 2 bases to hold this push... oh wait, this wasn't discussed in the show, it was discussed in the TL thread that was mocked for about 5 minutes!
I like that I know exactly what to do if I hit 1-1-1 in ladder after this show, since they invited Axslav to walk through his counter build.
Next time in ITT: Idra says that zerg is weak, so that Incontrol can mock him in new creative ways
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On August 24 2011 20:41 Technique wrote:Liked the cnc3 part .
What where when? Infos please =)
C&C 3 was "Tiberium Wars", right? Played that online quite a bit. Shadows were such a cool unit before they patched them out of the game 
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On August 24 2011 20:41 Technique wrote:Liked the cnc3 part .
When the best part of an "in-depth strategy show" is the part when they talk about another game, some tweaks and changes need to be made. =(
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On August 24 2011 22:01 ProxyKnoxy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2011 13:14 JoeSchmoe wrote:
Who was the person that made a guide "proving" 15 nexus was the best counter to 1/1/1? I'm interested to see this. I don't see how it's the counter when you wouldn't even scout it when the nexus goes up. Killer did it in IEM against SelecT. SelecT scouted it and just did a 4 rax all in and won (this happened in 2 games as Killer went 15 nexus 3 times)
That's the whole problem with 1-1-1, the best counters to the Korean version we're seeing now is very weak to any other Terran aggression.
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Dissapointing show.
Painuser's comments on the 1-1-1 were apropos of nothing. It was painfully obvious that the discussion was about the 1-1-1 in PvT, yet he went off on a ridiculous tangent about it in TvZ and TvT. Really? Did he think people were complaining about the balance of the 1-1-1 in TvT? Yeesh.
Additionally, his comments about how Protoss should counter it were completely, embarrassingly, wrong.
Ultimately, though, he's a Terran player. And playing one race can give you skewed opinions on things. Until I played T, for example, it never occured to me that dropping meant you didn't have as many units in your main army to defend, so you might just get a-moved. I just wish he would've taken the question seriously.
Idra was glib. But that's Idra.
Incontrol also did a very poor job during the initial conversation as well. He spent more time defending Puma then helping people. Then he lost his temper about the chat. Maybe I'm off base, but I thought Inside the Game was about Starcraft 2, not the scene. Interestingly, when a caller asked a question about the 1-1-1, he did a good job. So it's strange how he let himself get so off topic.
Finally, DJWheat was a pretty bad host. I really don't care about his opinion on ITG. That's no disrespect, but again, Inside the Game is a show about the actual game, and he's not very good at it. Why the heck did he let Painuser talk about the 1-1-1 in TvT and Z? Cut him off, and focus on the topic at hand. Also, he's really got to do a better job at pressing the panelists. I have no idea if Inc thinks the 1-1-1, or PVT as whole, is imbalanced. Get some answers.
Most importantly: Don't waste your time saying silly things like "BUT THE INTERNET THINKS ITS IMBA GEOFF, THUS IT MUST BE, I SAW A THREAD ON TL.NET ABOUT IT" in a joke voice. When DJwheat said that in response to Geoff saying it might be a metagame issue, I just cringed. Really needed a follow up there. If you want to complain about the SC2 community, that's AOK, but do it on the right platform (LO3).
glhf!!!! I really like the idea for the show, it just hasn't caught its stride 100% yet.
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Wow I'm really disappointed about the 1-1-1 discussion on the show. Many have said it before here but they were ignoring all the important points like EXPO ACTUALLY HAS A BETTER CHANCE TO HOLD IT then a 1 base. And Painuser just didn't even say 1 correct thing about the whole thing :/. This build has been used so much for over a month now you'd think they actually know what's going on.
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I still can't get over how people believe this build is meant to "punish" 1gate expand. I swear for the last few weeks it has been known that it has the best chance of beating it.
Even SelecT said the best way to beat it is to fast expand!
And Painuser just didn't even say 1 correct thing about the whole thing :/. This build has been used so much for over a month now you'd think they actually know what's going on.
Yeah...
I get people having differing opinion, but this has been such a hot topic over the last few weeks. It was quite..awkward, kinda felt embarrassed at one point because of how much inaccurate some of the discussion was--well that feel you get when you see people talk out of their ass on camera. I thought DjWheat usually filters this kind of stuff 0o
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On August 25 2011 02:29 Dommk wrote:
I still can't get over how people believe this build is meant to "punish" 1gate expand. I swear for the last few weeks it has been known that it has the best chance of beating it.
Even SelecT said the best way to beat it is to fast expand!
Well Painuser's cluelessness about the 1-1-1 is somewhat expected as he has stopped being a full time player quite a while ago and with his new job I'm not sure how much free time he actually has to dedicate to the game.
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On August 24 2011 20:41 Technique wrote:Liked the cnc3 part .
And even they got that part wrong :\
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Canada13430 Posts
On August 25 2011 02:00 -_- wrote:
Dissapointing show.
Painuser's comments on the 1-1-1 were apropos of nothing. It was painfully obvious that the discussion was about the 1-1-1 in PvT, yet he went off on a ridiculous tangent about it in TvZ and TvT. Really? Did he think people were complaining about the balance of the 1-1-1 in TvT? Yeesh.
Additionally, his comments about how Protoss should counter it were completely, embarrassingly, wrong.
Ultimately, though, he's a Terran player. And playing one race can give you skewed opinions on things. Until I played T, for example, it never occured to me that dropping meant you didn't have as many units in your main army to defend, so you might just get a-moved. I just wish he would've taken the question seriously.
Idra was glib. But that's Idra.
Incontrol also did a very poor job during the initial conversation as well. He spent more time defending Puma then helping people. Then he lost his temper about the chat. Maybe I'm off base, but I thought Inside the Game was about Starcraft 2, not the scene. Interestingly, when a caller asked a question about the 1-1-1, he did a good job. So it's strange how he let himself get so off topic.
Finally, DJWheat was a pretty bad host. I really don't care about his opinion on ITG. That's no disrespect, but again, Inside the Game is a show about the actual game, and he's not very good at it. Why the heck did he let Painuser talk about the 1-1-1 in TvT and Z? Cut him off, and focus on the topic at hand. Also, he's really got to do a better job at pressing the panelists. I have no idea if Inc thinks the 1-1-1, or PVT as whole, is imbalanced. Get some answers.
Most importantly: Don't waste your time saying silly things like "BUT THE INTERNET THINKS ITS IMBA GEOFF, THUS IT MUST BE, I SAW A THREAD ON TL.NET ABOUT IT" in a joke voice. When DJwheat said that in response to Geoff saying it might be a metagame issue, I just cringed. Really needed a follow up there. If you want to complain about the SC2 community, that's AOK, but do it on the right platform (LO3).
glhf!!!! I really like the idea for the show, it just hasn't caught its stride 100% yet.
Those are my thoughts exactly. I really wish they would have discussed it a bit better. I understand that Raleigh is coming up and T players will be preparing for it etc and P players will be practicing against the inevitable 1-1-1 BUT make it known?
Axslav says its easy.
... ok how so? explain expound, discuss? Even if its being kept secret due to the MLG this weekend at least say "been practicing quite a bit against it and unfortunately I dont want to go into details" then djWHEAT can move on to dif topic instead of dancing around the 1-1-1 issue and prevalence in a "knowing" manner. Hope my perspective is understood its a bit hard to explain how I feel since Im on my way out the door but really wanted to echo -_-'s opinion about the matter
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I understood few things from the show today.
Apparently IdrA claims that his teammate Axslav is saying this build is easy to stop. I would love to see replays of that.
I like Painuser's claim that you shouldn't get robo against that build and only if you scout cloak banshee you should (wonder how you are going to scout that).
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I don't like EG that much, but please get demuslim instead of painuser, demuslim is awesome in explaining tactics (i watched his stream) . Sorry, but painuser is simply outdated and just a mediocre NA terran
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EPT
