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On May 02 2011 23:15 hugman wrote:
This only works when there's a clear path between you and the obstacle you're trying to find, and that's not the case on a lot of maps. What I mean is that you need line of sight to your opponent's expo to "proxy scout" it.
Nevertheless, I still don't understand why unit pathfinding is done ahead of vision.
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Cool trick. My favorite pathfinder trick is putting a zealot in my mineral line then putting my probes on stop. It males an artificial choke for the zealots.
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On May 02 2011 23:05 Despicatus wrote:
Well, this is pretty evil for cannon rushes and just scouting in General, I really hope Blizzard updates the path finding engine to fix this.
I don't think that this is meant to be, nor that it should be in the game.
Uhm wait 1 sec, so how much faster can you actually scout your opponent on a 4 player map like tal darim with this?
It's not so much the "1 second" faster, it's that there are multiple spawn locations and the player never see's a probe wander in his base; thus there never is a missing probe to make him check around his base. It gives cannon rushers a HUGE advantage to get a "blind scout" as they will almost always get the pylon completely done.
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Sweden196 Posts
On May 02 2011 23:18 Talho wrote:
Program wise this might be very hard to fix without bugging other pathfinding stuff :/
I don't think it should be that difficult to base pathfinding on what's been scouted and always treat unscouted areas as empty.
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Wow this is like advanced tricks.
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Russian Federation88 Posts
On May 02 2011 23:24 fiskrens wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 23:18 Talho wrote:
Program wise this might be very hard to fix without bugging other pathfinding stuff :/ I don't think it should be that difficult to base pathfinding on what's been scouted and always treat unscouted areas as empty.
It's definitely not so simple but it's probable will not require big powers to recalculate path as new building appears / disappears within unit vision.
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On May 02 2011 23:15 PaPoolee wrote:
Wow needs to be patched ASAP, great find =>.
why?
Nice find!
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On May 02 2011 23:18 warshop wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 23:15 hugman wrote:
This only works when there's a clear path between you and the obstacle you're trying to find, and that's not the case on a lot of maps. What I mean is that you need line of sight to your opponent's expo to "proxy scout" it. Nevertheless, I still don't understand why unit pathfinding is done ahead of vision.
Pathfinding is very expensive to compute. If you would go via vision (unit vision or overall vision btw?) you would need to constantly check (whenever vision has changed) if there is a better path available. For every unit moving on the field.
I currently dont know if it updates at all (i.e. when a supply depot is lowered / raised) or if unit just computes the path once.
On May 02 2011 23:24 Ipp wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 23:05 Despicatus wrote:
Well, this is pretty evil for cannon rushes and just scouting in General, I really hope Blizzard updates the path finding engine to fix this.
I don't think that this is meant to be, nor that it should be in the game.
Uhm wait 1 sec, so how much faster can you actually scout your opponent on a 4 player map like tal darim with this? It's not so much the "1 second" faster, it's that there are multiple spawn locations and the player never see's a probe wander in his base; thus there never is a missing probe to make him check around his base. It gives cannon rushers a HUGE advantage to get a "blind scout" as they will almost always get the pylon completely done.
Depending on the spawn location (i.e. Metalopolis 3) your scouting probe could look at the minerals and see if they're being mined without the mining player seeing the probe. So I dont really see that much of a change.
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Hmm wow thats interesting.
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On May 02 2011 23:18 Talho wrote:
Program wise this might be very hard to fix without bugging other pathfinding stuff :/
Removing the pathfinding lines would make it hard enough, I think.
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On May 02 2011 23:39 Zocat wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 23:18 warshop wrote:On May 02 2011 23:15 hugman wrote:
This only works when there's a clear path between you and the obstacle you're trying to find, and that's not the case on a lot of maps. What I mean is that you need line of sight to your opponent's expo to "proxy scout" it. Nevertheless, I still don't understand why unit pathfinding is done ahead of vision. Pathfinding is very expensive to compute. If you would go via vision (unit vision or overall vision btw?) you would need to constantly check (whenever vision has changed) if there is a better path available. For every unit moving on the field. I currently dont know if it updates at all (i.e. when a supply depot is lowered / raised) or if unit just computes the path once.
Let me rephrase, since it is obviously a bit silly to recalculate pathfinding each time a unit moves within a certain radius.
"Nevertheless, I still don't understand why unit pathfinding sees ahead of vision. It should definitely evaluate the battlefield as empty (or with obstacles if the player has the information of it being there)."
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Russian Federation304 Posts
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don't let combatex find this
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i found the video rather difficult to follow, you dont have the most entertaining voice ever to be honest 
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It seems as if a unit moving is iterating between every objects (structures) in the battlefield, where it should, in reality, only iterate between visible objects (i.e. : the mini-map objects).
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Very nitfy findings, I hope to see it in TSL/GSL/NASL etc very soon.
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On May 02 2011 23:50 mprs wrote:
don't let combatex find this
ROFL...
To the issue, I think it's extremely hard to fix this. Maybe this will become just another subtle trick mastered by certain players.
Most importantly, you still can't find the opponent's main straight in a 4-player map? AFAIK, you must at least go up the ramp and only then you will see if he's there before seeing the buildings itself.
I don't think this will become a problem.
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Very nice video, if this stays, I can see it definitely being implemented into standard play.
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This is *very* neat. I'm hoping there could be a compromise that rewards this level of detail in play while at the same time... well, you know.
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EPT
