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MC: "[Flash] would definitely do well in SC2" - Page 27

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Mente
Profile Joined December 2009
United States288 Posts
May 27 2011 00:13 GMT
#521
starcraft 2 is more about who has the better counter to the build than who has better micro, macro and strategy, apm and game sense that you see in bw. Flash and JD would have to have quite a few games under their belts before they understood that concept for the early/mid game. But late game no matter what version of sc they played I'm sure they'd do exceedingly well just because they have everything they need from bw.
Solomon Grundy want pants too!
StarStruck
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
25339 Posts
May 27 2011 00:17 GMT
#522
On May 24 2011 20:28 Longshank wrote:
Such a stupid and hypothetical discussion. Flash would probably do well in SC2 but if anything we've seen that skills in one game doesn't magically transfer over to the next. Tyler was apparently the shit in foreign BW but in Sc2 he's struggling to produce any results, Grubby and Moon would beat Naniwa and Kas with one hand in Wc3 but in Sc2 it's a different story.

Until Flash actually switches all you guys are just coming with a various degree of uneducated guesses.


Ignorance is bliss.

If you weren't aware there are many other variables in play as to why NonY/Tyler has been under performing.

There is a correlation between certain aspects of games whether you like it or not.
sluggaslamoo
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Australia4494 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-27 00:43:01
May 27 2011 00:34 GMT
#523
On May 27 2011 09:13 Mente wrote:
starcraft 2 is more about who has the better counter to the build than who has better micro, macro and strategy, apm and game sense that you see in bw. Flash and JD would have to have quite a few games under their belts before they understood that concept for the early/mid game. But late game no matter what version of sc they played I'm sure they'd do exceedingly well just because they have everything they need from bw.


Actually that's why SC2 would be perfect for Flash. -_-

He has perfect expansion timing, perfect attack timing, perfect defense, perfect unit composition. His builds when he 3:0'd Jaedong were all two base timing attacks, where Jaedong seemed to just have no units and Flash would have the exact unit composition to counter whatever Jaedong had. It was like a hard counter composition on top of a hard counter strategy.

Flash would just send a big ball of units and lose almost nothing, but Jaedong would lose all his units and bases in one attack, it happened 3 times in a row. It seriously looked like Flash had god-mode & insta-gib hacks on.

Sounds a lot like SC2 right?
Come play Android Netrunner - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=409008
craz3d
Profile Joined August 2005
Bulgaria856 Posts
May 27 2011 00:38 GMT
#524
On May 27 2011 09:34 sluggaslamoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 27 2011 09:13 Mente wrote:
starcraft 2 is more about who has the better counter to the build than who has better micro, macro and strategy, apm and game sense that you see in bw. Flash and JD would have to have quite a few games under their belts before they understood that concept for the early/mid game. But late game no matter what version of sc they played I'm sure they'd do exceedingly well just because they have everything they need from bw.


Actually that's why SC2 would be perfect for Flash. -_-

His specialty is perfect expansion timing, perfect attack timing, perfect defense, perfect unit composition.


More like... perfect everything.
Hello World!
Zeiryuu
Profile Joined March 2010
Philippines231 Posts
May 27 2011 00:41 GMT
#525
Flash would do well in SC2. BW and SC2 really aren't that much different. BUT, we need to see Flash actually play to say whether or not he will DOMINATE SC2.
sluggaslamoo
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Australia4494 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-27 00:45:33
May 27 2011 00:44 GMT
#526
On May 27 2011 09:41 Zeiryuu wrote:
Flash would do well in SC2. BW and SC2 really aren't that much different. BUT, we need to see Flash actually play to say whether or not he will DOMINATE SC2.


Flash in his peak only slept 3 hours a night, the skin on his wrists were worn off as you could see in his photos, his team mates would force him to stop playing because his fingers would bleed from overuse, and even claimed he had achieved "enlightenment".

Compared to Nestea, he is on a completely different level.
Come play Android Netrunner - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=409008
Ezze
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada934 Posts
May 27 2011 00:47 GMT
#527
On May 27 2011 09:44 sluggaslamoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 27 2011 09:41 Zeiryuu wrote:
Flash would do well in SC2. BW and SC2 really aren't that much different. BUT, we need to see Flash actually play to say whether or not he will DOMINATE SC2.


Flash in his peak only slept 3 hours a night, the skin on his wrists were worn off as you could see in his photos, his team mates would force him to stop playing because his fingers would bleed from overuse, and even claimed he had achieved "enlightenment".

Compared to Nestea, he is on a completely different level.


Please tell me you're exaggerating. That sounds disgusting.
FeyFey
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany10114 Posts
May 27 2011 00:50 GMT
#528
since we have to wait atleast a few years on this I don't think there is need for a discussion, just my opinion. Well you could all put together and pay him a nice salary so he would switch xD. If i would be mean i would probably say something like he would dominate if he would play toss ;P.
Niklai
Profile Joined March 2011
289 Posts
May 27 2011 00:54 GMT
#529
On May 27 2011 09:47 Ezze wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 27 2011 09:44 sluggaslamoo wrote:
On May 27 2011 09:41 Zeiryuu wrote:
Flash would do well in SC2. BW and SC2 really aren't that much different. BUT, we need to see Flash actually play to say whether or not he will DOMINATE SC2.


Flash in his peak only slept 3 hours a night, the skin on his wrists were worn off as you could see in his photos, his team mates would force him to stop playing because his fingers would bleed from overuse, and even claimed he had achieved "enlightenment".

Compared to Nestea, he is on a completely different level.


Please tell me you're exaggerating. That sounds disgusting.


disgusting? it sounds like perfect passion
craz3d
Profile Joined August 2005
Bulgaria856 Posts
May 27 2011 01:06 GMT
#530
On May 27 2011 09:50 FeyFey wrote:
since we have to wait atleast a few years on this I don't think there is need for a discussion, just my opinion. Well you could all put together and pay him a nice salary so he would switch xD. If i would be mean i would probably say something like he would dominate if he would play toss ;P.


No one knows if he'll switch or not, because at the moment playing SC1 is more lucrative. There's no doubt in my mind the likes of Flash/Jaedong/Bisu will rise to the top very fast if they make the switch. And I really hope they do because they will raise substantially raise the level of SC2 in the long run, because in order to compete with them you'll need to practice as much as they do.

For those guys who want some evidence, refer to the numbers posted in the recent article that showed players stats in the proleague:

Flash: 402-155 (72.17%)
Jaedong: 435-205 (67.97%)
Bisu: 340-180 (65.38%)

MC: 1-9 (10.00%)
MVP: 30-46 (39.47%)
Nestea: 11-21 (34.38%)

Flash, JD and Bisu were just that much better at SC1 than the current top players in the SC2 scene. They aren't the best only because of their outstanding mechanics, but because of game sense and timing, as well.
Hello World!
Mente
Profile Joined December 2009
United States288 Posts
May 27 2011 02:15 GMT
#531
On May 27 2011 09:34 sluggaslamoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 27 2011 09:13 Mente wrote:
starcraft 2 is more about who has the better counter to the build than who has better micro, macro and strategy, apm and game sense that you see in bw. Flash and JD would have to have quite a few games under their belts before they understood that concept for the early/mid game. But late game no matter what version of sc they played I'm sure they'd do exceedingly well just because they have everything they need from bw.


Actually that's why SC2 would be perfect for Flash. -_-

He has perfect expansion timing, perfect attack timing, perfect defense, perfect unit composition. His builds when he 3:0'd Jaedong were all two base timing attacks, where Jaedong seemed to just have no units and Flash would have the exact unit composition to counter whatever Jaedong had. It was like a hard counter composition on top of a hard counter strategy.

Flash would just send a big ball of units and lose almost nothing, but Jaedong would lose all his units and bases in one attack, it happened 3 times in a row. It seriously looked like Flash had god-mode & insta-gib hacks on.

Sounds a lot like SC2 right?


Yes I do agree: having units is a hard counter to not having units but that's applicable to all games, not just starcraft....

What series are you even talking about anyway?
Solomon Grundy want pants too!
sluggaslamoo
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Australia4494 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-28 06:59:13
May 28 2011 06:49 GMT
#532
On May 27 2011 11:15 Mente wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 27 2011 09:34 sluggaslamoo wrote:
On May 27 2011 09:13 Mente wrote:
starcraft 2 is more about who has the better counter to the build than who has better micro, macro and strategy, apm and game sense that you see in bw. Flash and JD would have to have quite a few games under their belts before they understood that concept for the early/mid game. But late game no matter what version of sc they played I'm sure they'd do exceedingly well just because they have everything they need from bw.


Actually that's why SC2 would be perfect for Flash. -_-

He has perfect expansion timing, perfect attack timing, perfect defense, perfect unit composition. His builds when he 3:0'd Jaedong were all two base timing attacks, where Jaedong seemed to just have no units and Flash would have the exact unit composition to counter whatever Jaedong had. It was like a hard counter composition on top of a hard counter strategy.

Flash would just send a big ball of units and lose almost nothing, but Jaedong would lose all his units and bases in one attack, it happened 3 times in a row. It seriously looked like Flash had god-mode & insta-gib hacks on.

Sounds a lot like SC2 right?


Yes I do agree: having units is a hard counter to not having units but that's applicable to all games, not just starcraft....

What series are you even talking about anyway?


Hana Daetoo MSL Grand Final where Flash went 14CC every game and won the first 3 games of a Bo5.

Every single game the game was decided in a single 2 base push, which is what happens in the majority of SC2 games, and which is why so many people don't like Flash . This is obviously much more powerful in SC2, but the irony is that he can do this at the top level in BW.

This one Flash did a marine + medic + valkyrie against muta ling. Valkyrie is a hard counter to muta, and critical mass of bio would just melt the lings and Flash would simply not lose any units (except maybe 2 valkyrie to scourge).

Come play Android Netrunner - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=409008
Zapdos_Smithh
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Canada2620 Posts
May 28 2011 07:15 GMT
#533
On May 27 2011 09:13 Mente wrote:
starcraft 2 is more about who has the better counter to the build than who has better micro, macro and strategy, apm and game sense that you see in bw. Flash and JD would have to have quite a few games under their belts before they understood that concept for the early/mid game. But late game no matter what version of sc they played I'm sure they'd do exceedingly well just because they have everything they need from bw.


I don't think you realize how good JD/Flash actually are. Just for reference...MC/Nestea were shit/unheard of in BW, July/Boxer/Nada were way past their expiration dates before SC2 was even released, and most of these top level SC2 players who came from BW were B-teamers (i.e. probably barely made any money) from BW. There are a couple of War3 players in the Korean scene I believe but the majority of players are from BW.

A couple of people mentioned Nony or other players like Grubby/Moon who aren't doing well. For reference, considering Nony is now married and all that, I know for SURE he isn't playing as much as he did in his BW days. Grubby started SC2 what....4-5 months ago? 7 max? I know he started a bit late. Moon I have no idea about tbh.

Back to the point, Flash/JD literally would stomp these players on a regular basis in BW...considering how MC/Nestea's skills have transferred I would say Flash/JD's skills would transfer even better. Their sense of RTS is so high it's honestly incomprehensible...
MH_Gunner
Profile Joined May 2011
200 Posts
June 19 2011 12:34 GMT
#534
On May 27 2011 09:44 sluggaslamoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 27 2011 09:41 Zeiryuu wrote:
Flash would do well in SC2. BW and SC2 really aren't that much different. BUT, we need to see Flash actually play to say whether or not he will DOMINATE SC2.


Flash in his peak only slept 3 hours a night, the skin on his wrists were worn off as you could see in his photos, his team mates would force him to stop playing because his fingers would bleed from overuse, and even claimed he had achieved "enlightenment".

Compared to Nestea, he is on a completely different level.


Also you should add that he is only 18 y.o kid .
Megaliskuu
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5123 Posts
June 19 2011 12:37 GMT
#535
On May 28 2011 15:49 sluggaslamoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 27 2011 11:15 Mente wrote:
On May 27 2011 09:34 sluggaslamoo wrote:
On May 27 2011 09:13 Mente wrote:
starcraft 2 is more about who has the better counter to the build than who has better micro, macro and strategy, apm and game sense that you see in bw. Flash and JD would have to have quite a few games under their belts before they understood that concept for the early/mid game. But late game no matter what version of sc they played I'm sure they'd do exceedingly well just because they have everything they need from bw.


Actually that's why SC2 would be perfect for Flash. -_-

He has perfect expansion timing, perfect attack timing, perfect defense, perfect unit composition. His builds when he 3:0'd Jaedong were all two base timing attacks, where Jaedong seemed to just have no units and Flash would have the exact unit composition to counter whatever Jaedong had. It was like a hard counter composition on top of a hard counter strategy.

Flash would just send a big ball of units and lose almost nothing, but Jaedong would lose all his units and bases in one attack, it happened 3 times in a row. It seriously looked like Flash had god-mode & insta-gib hacks on.

Sounds a lot like SC2 right?


Yes I do agree: having units is a hard counter to not having units but that's applicable to all games, not just starcraft....

What series are you even talking about anyway?


Hana Daetoo MSL Grand Final where Flash went 14CC every game and won the first 3 games of a Bo5.

Every single game the game was decided in a single 2 base push, which is what happens in the majority of SC2 games, and which is why so many people don't like Flash . This is obviously much more powerful in SC2, but the irony is that he can do this at the top level in BW.

This one Flash did a marine + medic + valkyrie against muta ling. Valkyrie is a hard counter to muta, and critical mass of bio would just melt the lings and Flash would simply not lose any units (except maybe 2 valkyrie to scourge).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDuQ6yD1e9Y


To add to this, Flash's sick timings in the latest MSL where he easily 3-0'd Zero.
|BW>Everything|Add me on star2 KR server TheMuTaL.675 for practice games :)|NEX clan| https://www.dotabuff.com/players/183104694
Mailing
Profile Joined March 2011
United States3087 Posts
June 19 2011 12:40 GMT
#536
On May 27 2011 09:54 Niklai wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 27 2011 09:47 Ezze wrote:
On May 27 2011 09:44 sluggaslamoo wrote:
On May 27 2011 09:41 Zeiryuu wrote:
Flash would do well in SC2. BW and SC2 really aren't that much different. BUT, we need to see Flash actually play to say whether or not he will DOMINATE SC2.


Flash in his peak only slept 3 hours a night, the skin on his wrists were worn off as you could see in his photos, his team mates would force him to stop playing because his fingers would bleed from overuse, and even claimed he had achieved "enlightenment".

Compared to Nestea, he is on a completely different level.


Please tell me you're exaggerating. That sounds disgusting.


disgusting? it sounds like perfect passion


In the west, it would sound like an extreme addiction and possibly a mental disorder
Are you hurting ESPORTS? Find out today - http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=232866
XsebT
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Denmark2980 Posts
June 19 2011 14:38 GMT
#537
On May 27 2011 09:44 sluggaslamoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 27 2011 09:41 Zeiryuu wrote:
Flash would do well in SC2. BW and SC2 really aren't that much different. BUT, we need to see Flash actually play to say whether or not he will DOMINATE SC2.


Flash in his peak only slept 3 hours a night, the skin on his wrists were worn off as you could see in his photos, his team mates would force him to stop playing because his fingers would bleed from overuse, and even claimed he had achieved "enlightenment".

Compared to Nestea, he is on a completely different level.

Where do you have this from? It contradicts everything I've heard.
I'm not sure about his wrist/skin problems, but they've certainly not necessarily come from playing.
화이팅
Demand2k
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Norway875 Posts
June 19 2011 14:47 GMT
#538
Doubt Flash will ever switch to SC2. He makes 200k-300k usd a year playing BW, and at the same time he is considered one of the all time greats within RTS. He also has an uncurable problem with his wrist. I think he'll most likely ending up on the school bench.
Demand2k
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Norway875 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-19 14:50:31
June 19 2011 14:49 GMT
#539
On June 19 2011 23:38 XsebT wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 27 2011 09:44 sluggaslamoo wrote:
On May 27 2011 09:41 Zeiryuu wrote:
Flash would do well in SC2. BW and SC2 really aren't that much different. BUT, we need to see Flash actually play to say whether or not he will DOMINATE SC2.


Flash in his peak only slept 3 hours a night, the skin on his wrists were worn off as you could see in his photos, his team mates would force him to stop playing because his fingers would bleed from overuse, and even claimed he had achieved "enlightenment".

Compared to Nestea, he is on a completely different level.

Where do you have this from? It contradicts everything I've heard.
I'm not sure about his wrist/skin problems, but they've certainly not necessarily come from playing.


It's chronic of course, my own mother has the very same thing. It's fine, but very latent if you don't use your wrist, but instead of building up it's strength and durability from use, you're just accelerating it's deterioation.

edit: no idea why I capitalized 'chronic'
starmeat_
Profile Joined May 2011
105 Posts
June 19 2011 14:50 GMT
#540
On April 30 2011 10:50 Thorin wrote:
oGs (P)MC, the world's best StarCraft 2 player.....
[/url]

I was curious whether you'd seen a Korea player by the name of NesTea play Starcraft 2. If not I highly recommend it lol
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