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MC: "[Flash] would definitely do well in SC2" - Page 28

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
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karpo
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden1998 Posts
June 19 2011 14:51 GMT
#541
On June 19 2011 23:50 starmeat_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 30 2011 10:50 Thorin wrote:
oGs (P)MC, the world's best StarCraft 2 player.....


I was curious whether you'd seen a Korea player by the name of NesTea play Starcraft 2. If not I highly recommend it lol
[/url]

Not suprised a zerg prefering NesTea but looking at GSL wins AND total tournament wins i'm guessing MC has a way better record.
two.watup
Profile Joined March 2011
United States371 Posts
June 19 2011 14:55 GMT
#542
On June 19 2011 23:47 Demand2k wrote:
Doubt Flash will ever switch to SC2. He makes 200k-300k usd a year playing BW, and at the same time he is considered one of the all time greats within RTS. He also has an uncurable problem with his wrist. I think he'll most likely ending up on the school bench.

If he switched to SC2, he could stay teamless and make 600k usd+ off GSL alone.
ProxyKnoxy
Profile Joined April 2011
United Kingdom2576 Posts
June 19 2011 14:58 GMT
#543
On June 19 2011 23:55 two.watup wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 19 2011 23:47 Demand2k wrote:
Doubt Flash will ever switch to SC2. He makes 200k-300k usd a year playing BW, and at the same time he is considered one of the all time greats within RTS. He also has an uncurable problem with his wrist. I think he'll most likely ending up on the school bench.

If he switched to SC2, he could stay teamless and make 600k usd+ off GSL alone.


Or he won't be as good as everyone thinks and be on the level of say Nada eventually? Yes he's a good player but god they're two different games and he's a year behind. If he does switch he won't be "amazing" in a week as some of you assume.
"Zealot try give mariners high five. Mariners not like high five and try hide and shoot zealot"
TeWy
Profile Joined December 2009
France714 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-19 15:13:53
June 19 2011 15:09 GMT
#544
On May 28 2011 16:15 Zapdos_Smithh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 27 2011 09:13 Mente wrote:
starcraft 2 is more about who has the better counter to the build than who has better micro, macro and strategy, apm and game sense that you see in bw. Flash and JD would have to have quite a few games under their belts before they understood that concept for the early/mid game. But late game no matter what version of sc they played I'm sure they'd do exceedingly well just because they have everything they need from bw.


I don't think you realize how good JD/Flash actually are. Just for reference...MC/Nestea were shit/unheard of in BW, July/Boxer/Nada were way past their expiration dates before SC2 was even released, and most of these top level SC2 players who came from BW were B-teamers (i.e. probably barely made any money) from BW. There are a couple of War3 players in the Korean scene I believe but the majority of players are from BW.

A couple of people mentioned Nony or other players like Grubby/Moon who aren't doing well. For reference, considering Nony is now married and all that, I know for SURE he isn't playing as much as he did in his BW days. Grubby started SC2 what....4-5 months ago? 7 max? I know he started a bit late. Moon I have no idea about tbh.

Back to the point, Flash/JD literally would stomp these players on a regular basis in BW...considering how MC/Nestea's skills have transferred I would say Flash/JD's skills would transfer even better. Their sense of RTS is so high it's honestly incomprehensible...


Flash and Jaedong aren't "good".
They are good, excellent, SC:BW players. Not good players in the absolute, it makes no sense whatsoever.

MC Nestea's skills might have transferred well, but you've not heard about all the other B team players and the old BW players who failed miserably to qualify for GSL code A, precisely because they failed to qualify and show their faces on TV.
Being good at BW only increases the likelyhood of being good at SC2, it doesn't make it so.
Period.

Rotodyne
Profile Blog Joined July 2005
United States2263 Posts
June 19 2011 15:29 GMT
#545
Flash would crush everyone. Period.
I can only play starcraft when I am shit canned. IPXZERG is a god.
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-19 15:41:28
June 19 2011 15:37 GMT
#546
I think people are getting too far into quantifying Flash's skill and ignoring an unknown that could prevent him from retaining his BW dominance. If Flash started fresh in SC2 today, I have little doubt he would become the best with his work ethic, mechanical skills and analytical thinking. There's no doubt that BW and SC2 share these skill sets.

But he's not starting fresh and it's impossible for the human brain to do that. In this regard comparisons to Nony/IdrA/MC/Nestea are irrelevant because none of these players hold a candle to Flash when it comes to BW knowledge or intuition. There's a certain amount of unlearning and tendency removal he'll need to do and how well he handles that is completely unknown.

I don't know how pertinent the examples of Grubby and Moon are but it's certainly interesting that they've been surpassed by far worse WC3 players. Perhaps their mastery at WC3 holds them back in SC2. Maybe he'll still be fine, I'm just saying don't treat the brain like a workstation.
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
starmeat_
Profile Joined May 2011
105 Posts
June 19 2011 15:39 GMT
#547
On June 19 2011 23:51 karpo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 19 2011 23:50 starmeat_ wrote:
On April 30 2011 10:50 Thorin wrote:
oGs (P)MC, the world's best StarCraft 2 player.....


I was curious whether you'd seen a Korea player by the name of NesTea play Starcraft 2. If not I highly recommend it lol


Not suprised a zerg prefering NesTea but looking at GSL wins AND total tournament wins i'm guessing MC has a way better record.
[/url]

that is because NesTea doesn't participate in foreign tournaments. so that can't be used against him.

a good argument can be made that NesTea is the best player in the world, if not on equal footing with MC, since MC has been performing poorly in the past 2 GSL's.
Dalavita
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden1113 Posts
June 19 2011 15:40 GMT
#548
On June 19 2011 23:58 ProxyKnoxy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 19 2011 23:55 two.watup wrote:
On June 19 2011 23:47 Demand2k wrote:
Doubt Flash will ever switch to SC2. He makes 200k-300k usd a year playing BW, and at the same time he is considered one of the all time greats within RTS. He also has an uncurable problem with his wrist. I think he'll most likely ending up on the school bench.

If he switched to SC2, he could stay teamless and make 600k usd+ off GSL alone.


Or he won't be as good as everyone thinks and be on the level of say Nada eventually? Yes he's a good player but god they're two different games and he's a year behind. If he does switch he won't be "amazing" in a week as some of you assume.


The year behind doesn't matter as much as you think. He can skip all the figuring out the metagame part people had to struggle with and just instantly go with what works and learn the kinks and mechanics within a month or two.
Probe1
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States17920 Posts
June 19 2011 15:44 GMT
#549
I think we could agree that Flash or Jaedong would require a few months to acclimate to Sc2 but once they did they would be at the top of the GSL. Dominating it is too speculative but I strongly think that it is past debate that they would define gosu.
우정호 KT_VIOLET 1988 - 2012 While we are postponing, life speeds by
karpo
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden1998 Posts
June 19 2011 15:44 GMT
#550
On June 20 2011 00:39 starmeat_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 19 2011 23:51 karpo wrote:
On June 19 2011 23:50 starmeat_ wrote:
On April 30 2011 10:50 Thorin wrote:
oGs (P)MC, the world's best StarCraft 2 player.....


I was curious whether you'd seen a Korea player by the name of NesTea play Starcraft 2. If not I highly recommend it lol


Not suprised a zerg prefering NesTea but looking at GSL wins AND total tournament wins i'm guessing MC has a way better record.


that is because NesTea doesn't participate in foreign tournaments. so that can't be used against him.

a good argument can be made that NesTea is the best player in the world, if not on equal footing with MC, since MC has been performing poorly in the past 2 GSL's.
[/url]

One has more tournament wins. If the other doesn't want to travel to the biggest tournaments it's his loss.
nalgene
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada2153 Posts
June 19 2011 17:26 GMT
#551
He does have the dedication to do very well as he even trained for one month just to get a pro gamer's license in order to become a pro gamer ( he was the best at his school, too, and just decided to become a pro gamer )
Year 2500 Greater Israel ( Bahrain, Cyprus, Egypt, Iran, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Oman, Gaza Strip, West Bank, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Turkey, United Arab Emirates, Yemen )
starmeat_
Profile Joined May 2011
105 Posts
June 20 2011 12:30 GMT
#552


One has more tournament wins. If the other doesn't want to travel to the biggest tournaments it's his loss.


i completely agree but it's not the point i'm arguing.

what i'm saying is MC winning tournaments NesTea is not part of, cannot be used to argue MC is a better player than NesTea.

to be honest, i don't think it can be argued who the best player in the world is, since at this moment in time, it can't be quantified because there is no one dominant person.

having said that, the way NesTea is playing Zerg, it is not a ludicrous opinion to have for one to think NesTea is the best player in the world.

but again, they're all opinions.
tripper688
Profile Joined January 2011
United States569 Posts
July 05 2011 17:48 GMT
#553
BeSt would be the BeSt player to switch :D (sorry I had to). But honestly, one can't look at the control, multitasking, game sense, and dedication that current "S" or even "A" class BW pros have and not think that they would at least do well in SC2, especially when compared to their current SC2 counterparts...
"Excuse me I gotta do some vacuuming really fast *vrrrrrrmmmmmmmmm*" Day[9]
Gamegene
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States8308 Posts
July 05 2011 17:54 GMT
#554
I think it would be best for Flash to wait out until HOTS comes out. By then all players will be forced into a new metagame, making it easier for Flash to transition.
Throw on your favorite jacket and you're good to roll. Stroll through the trees and let your miseries go.
Olinim
Profile Joined March 2011
4044 Posts
July 05 2011 17:54 GMT
#555
On June 20 2011 21:30 starmeat_ wrote:
Show nested quote +


One has more tournament wins. If the other doesn't want to travel to the biggest tournaments it's his loss.


i completely agree but it's not the point i'm arguing.

what i'm saying is MC winning tournaments NesTea is not part of, cannot be used to argue MC is a better player than NesTea.

to be honest, i don't think it can be argued who the best player in the world is, since at this moment in time, it can't be quantified because there is no one dominant person.

having said that, the way NesTea is playing Zerg, it is not a ludicrous opinion to have for one to think NesTea is the best player in the world.

but again, they're all opinions.

MC did win a tournament nestea was apart of , quite recently in fact. Stars war tourney(had many top koreans), and he got much further in TSL. People always say "nestea hasn't done any foreign events" and its bullshit, yes they were online but other korean players have done well in them, its not an excuse.
fraktoasters
Profile Joined January 2011
United States617 Posts
July 05 2011 18:25 GMT
#556
On July 06 2011 02:54 Olinim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 20 2011 21:30 starmeat_ wrote:


One has more tournament wins. If the other doesn't want to travel to the biggest tournaments it's his loss.


i completely agree but it's not the point i'm arguing.

what i'm saying is MC winning tournaments NesTea is not part of, cannot be used to argue MC is a better player than NesTea.

to be honest, i don't think it can be argued who the best player in the world is, since at this moment in time, it can't be quantified because there is no one dominant person.

having said that, the way NesTea is playing Zerg, it is not a ludicrous opinion to have for one to think NesTea is the best player in the world.

but again, they're all opinions.

MC did win a tournament nestea was apart of , quite recently in fact. Stars war tourney(had many top koreans), and he got much further in TSL. People always say "nestea hasn't done any foreign events" and its bullshit, yes they were online but other korean players have done well in them, its not an excuse.


I'm pretty sure everyone now accepts cross server lag as an excuse.

But yeah, just owning more white dudes doesn't make MC better than Nestea.
Olinim
Profile Joined March 2011
4044 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-05 18:27:49
July 05 2011 18:26 GMT
#557
On July 06 2011 03:25 fraktoasters wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 06 2011 02:54 Olinim wrote:
On June 20 2011 21:30 starmeat_ wrote:


One has more tournament wins. If the other doesn't want to travel to the biggest tournaments it's his loss.


i completely agree but it's not the point i'm arguing.

what i'm saying is MC winning tournaments NesTea is not part of, cannot be used to argue MC is a better player than NesTea.

to be honest, i don't think it can be argued who the best player in the world is, since at this moment in time, it can't be quantified because there is no one dominant person.

having said that, the way NesTea is playing Zerg, it is not a ludicrous opinion to have for one to think NesTea is the best player in the world.

but again, they're all opinions.

MC did win a tournament nestea was apart of , quite recently in fact. Stars war tourney(had many top koreans), and he got much further in TSL. People always say "nestea hasn't done any foreign events" and its bullshit, yes they were online but other korean players have done well in them, its not an excuse.


I'm pretty sure everyone now accepts cross server lag as an excuse.

But yeah, just owning more white dudes doesn't make MC better than Nestea.

If its such a hindrance why did MC win the tournament...?
The only thing you can really go by is tournament results and MC has far more, and Nestea wasn't absent from all of them.
Snaphoo
Profile Joined July 2010
United States614 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-08 04:55:32
July 08 2011 04:54 GMT
#558
On July 06 2011 03:26 Olinim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 06 2011 03:25 fraktoasters wrote:
On July 06 2011 02:54 Olinim wrote:
On June 20 2011 21:30 starmeat_ wrote:


One has more tournament wins. If the other doesn't want to travel to the biggest tournaments it's his loss.


i completely agree but it's not the point i'm arguing.

what i'm saying is MC winning tournaments NesTea is not part of, cannot be used to argue MC is a better player than NesTea.

to be honest, i don't think it can be argued who the best player in the world is, since at this moment in time, it can't be quantified because there is no one dominant person.

having said that, the way NesTea is playing Zerg, it is not a ludicrous opinion to have for one to think NesTea is the best player in the world.

but again, they're all opinions.

MC did win a tournament nestea was apart of , quite recently in fact. Stars war tourney(had many top koreans), and he got much further in TSL. People always say "nestea hasn't done any foreign events" and its bullshit, yes they were online but other korean players have done well in them, its not an excuse.


I'm pretty sure everyone now accepts cross server lag as an excuse.

But yeah, just owning more white dudes doesn't make MC better than Nestea.

If its such a hindrance why did MC win the tournament...?
The only thing you can really go by is tournament results and MC has far more, and Nestea wasn't absent from all of them.


MC being able to better adjust to cross-server lag does not mean that he's better at SC2 than NesTea, as cross-server lag is not the norm (and I vaguely recall hearing from somewhere that oGs had the least lag of any of the major pro teams because of their ISP? can someone either confirm or deny?).

That being said, MC was the first 2-time champion and has been in the pantheon of "top 3 people playing this game right now, period" since at least GSL 3. I can't recall him being knocked out by any scrubs since he won his first GSL (NesTea, Polt, Bomber) so to say his recent efforts aren't amazing is fair, but keep in mind the quality of the competition that he's losing to. He's arguably the best, but until he wins another GSL, it's just arguable.
cheukwongathku
Profile Joined July 2011
United States1 Post
July 08 2011 05:14 GMT
#559


Bisu would stomp mc ~_~
seansye
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1722 Posts
July 08 2011 05:23 GMT
#560
Of course, Flash or Jaedong wouldn't dominate right away, but their experience, understanding of the game, awareness,etc... I think would help them greatly get to the top in no time. Just look at the best sc2 players in the world. MC, Nestea, MVP, MKP, Bomber, MMA, Losira, Puma, JulyZerg, Nada, SangHo, aLive, Genius etc............................., and prob just about more than 80% of the gsl players prob came from a BW pro team.
I will master Speshul Taktics.!
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