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Massive units are not affected by concussive shells. If you think they are, you are wrong.
It's SPORE crawlers that are being changed, not SPINE. Please read carefully. |
On April 27 2011 04:45 shockaslim wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 04:28 Jayrod wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 27 2011 04:02 KimJongChill wrote:On April 27 2011 03:53 Jayrod wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 03:15 j3i wrote:
I was expecting a way for zerg to deal with forcefields, but I still like these changes. Maybe next time they'll make spine crawlers "massive." Burrow, ultras, air units, keeping sentry energy low through applying pressure, engaging in more open areas. There I gave you 5+ ways and I didnt even have to patch the game god i hate when people say ultras to deal with ff's, How are ultras not one of the many ways I listed to deal with forcefields? Or are you another one of those zergs that doesn't care about balance or appreciate the fact that without forcefields Protoss would never be able to compete. Pylon>Gateway>Cybernetics Core = Sentries(400/100) Spawning Pool>Lair>Infestation Pit>Hive>Ultralisk Cavern = Ultralisks (considerably more)
You lose to the 1 sentry push much? Please don't ignore the multitude of ways in which a zerg has to deal with forcefields. I didn't even include sidestepping in my list... do you know how fucking powerful it is to win by simply avoiding direct battles with a player. It works in ZvP and ZvT.
Source: personal experience
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On April 27 2011 05:06 Jayrod wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 04:45 shockaslim wrote:On April 27 2011 04:28 Jayrod wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 27 2011 04:02 KimJongChill wrote:On April 27 2011 03:53 Jayrod wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 03:15 j3i wrote:
I was expecting a way for zerg to deal with forcefields, but I still like these changes. Maybe next time they'll make spine crawlers "massive." Burrow, ultras, air units, keeping sentry energy low through applying pressure, engaging in more open areas. There I gave you 5+ ways and I didnt even have to patch the game god i hate when people say ultras to deal with ff's, How are ultras not one of the many ways I listed to deal with forcefields? Or are you another one of those zergs that doesn't care about balance or appreciate the fact that without forcefields Protoss would never be able to compete. Pylon>Gateway>Cybernetics Core = Sentries(400/100) Spawning Pool>Lair>Infestation Pit>Hive>Ultralisk Cavern = Ultralisks (considerably more) You lose to the 1 sentry push much? Please don't ignore the multitude of ways in which a zerg has to deal with forcefields. I didn't even include sidestepping in my list... do you know how fucking powerful it is to win by simply avoiding direct battles with a player. It works in ZvP and ZvT. Source: personal experience
Forcefields are not such a big problem late in the game - that's the point.
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On April 27 2011 04:28 Jayrod wrote:
Or are you another one of those zergs that doesn't care about balance or appreciate the fact that without forcefields Protoss would never be able to compete.
I call bullshit to the ff comment. While I will agree that if you took protoss armies as they are now and removed the ff, it would severely hurt the engagements; Saying that w/out ff's protoss would lose is complete and total bullshit. w/out ff you wouldn't spend 100g per sentry and you would have more gas for teching, If you are afraid of being overrun by zerg you would make more zealots, get charge, get upgrades. While I wouldn't want ff's to be removed (or even changed for that matter) saying stupid shit like "Without forcefields protoss would never be able to compete" is ludicrous. Perhaps the only argument to the ff being too crucial is banelings (another convo for another day).
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On April 27 2011 04:06 no.Stats wrote:
doesnt change anything about the ridiculous overpowered 2 base mass gateway push with 1947325872858230 forcefields
Thats my credit card number :0
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Not very many changes with this patch, and they all seem really acceptable.
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I love the pylon power reduction (even though I'll be messing up building placement for the next couple of weeks), as it makes warping in units up a ramp more difficult. I also like the Warp Gate research time nerf, but I'm worried it might make protoss weak in the early game. Also, if WG unit cooldown is the same as gateway unit build time, might we see WG tech as a midgame upgrade? It seems like the advantage of having extra chronoboosts, minerals, and gas might outway the benefit of having units when you went them, where you want them, until on 2 or 3 bases.
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On April 27 2011 05:09 ixi.genocide wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 04:28 Jayrod wrote:
Or are you another one of those zergs that doesn't care about balance or appreciate the fact that without forcefields Protoss would never be able to compete. I call bullshit to the ff comment. While I will agree that if you took protoss armies as they are now and removed the ff, it would severely hurt the engagements; Saying that w/out ff's protoss would lose is complete and total bullshit. w/out ff you wouldn't spend 100g per sentry and you would have more gas for teching, If you are afraid of being overrun by zerg you would make more zealots, get charge, get upgrades. While I wouldn't want ff's to be removed (or even changed for that matter) saying stupid shit like "Without forcefields protoss would never be able to compete" is ludicrous. Perhaps the only argument to the ff being too crucial is banelings (another convo for another day).
He's talking about PvT. PvT is unwinnable without forcefield.
That said he's right about PvZ too. I guess you need to play P to properly appreciate it. You cannot defend efficiently without them, and if you cannot defend efficiently you will get so outmacroed it doesn't matter what you do.
Also, if WG unit cooldown is the same as gateway unit build time, might we see WG tech as a midgame upgrade? It seems like the advantage of having extra chronoboosts, minerals, and gas might outway the benefit of having units when you went them, where you want them, until on 2 or 3 bases.
I guess if gateways built at the same rate as warpgates that might happen. But they don't so it won't.
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On April 27 2011 05:07 rbx270j wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 05:06 Jayrod wrote:On April 27 2011 04:45 shockaslim wrote:On April 27 2011 04:28 Jayrod wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 27 2011 04:02 KimJongChill wrote:On April 27 2011 03:53 Jayrod wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 03:15 j3i wrote:
I was expecting a way for zerg to deal with forcefields, but I still like these changes. Maybe next time they'll make spine crawlers "massive." Burrow, ultras, air units, keeping sentry energy low through applying pressure, engaging in more open areas. There I gave you 5+ ways and I didnt even have to patch the game god i hate when people say ultras to deal with ff's, How are ultras not one of the many ways I listed to deal with forcefields? Or are you another one of those zergs that doesn't care about balance or appreciate the fact that without forcefields Protoss would never be able to compete. Pylon>Gateway>Cybernetics Core = Sentries(400/100) Spawning Pool>Lair>Infestation Pit>Hive>Ultralisk Cavern = Ultralisks (considerably more) You lose to the 1 sentry push much? Please don't ignore the multitude of ways in which a zerg has to deal with forcefields. I didn't even include sidestepping in my list... do you know how fucking powerful it is to win by simply avoiding direct battles with a player. It works in ZvP and ZvT. Source: personal experience Forcefields are not such a big problem late in the game - that's the point.
This is wrong on so many levels. I can tell you as a protoss player unless ive made a switch to mass upgraded blink stalker in the late game I completely live and die by the forcefield no matter what the stage of the game is... Do zerg players really think this? Maybe thats why they are doing so poorly.
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On April 27 2011 05:09 ixi.genocide wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 04:28 Jayrod wrote:
Or are you another one of those zergs that doesn't care about balance or appreciate the fact that without forcefields Protoss would never be able to compete. I call bullshit to the ff comment. While I will agree that if you took protoss armies as they are now and removed the ff, it would severely hurt the engagements; Saying that w/out ff's protoss would lose is complete and total bullshit. w/out ff you wouldn't spend 100g per sentry and you would have more gas for teching, If you are afraid of being overrun by zerg you would make more zealots, get charge, get upgrades. While I wouldn't want ff's to be removed (or even changed for that matter) saying stupid shit like "Without forcefields protoss would never be able to compete" is ludicrous. Perhaps the only argument to the ff being too crucial is banelings (another convo for another day).
All the tech in the world won't save you against a roach surround.. .it just wont. You can get too many of them too quickly.
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I already love this patch, Templar tech is now more viable in pvt & pvp.
I hope to only use robo to get observers & immortals.
I want ptr for europe! 
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On April 27 2011 05:15 HellKey wrote:I want ptr for europe!
This ^ wish they would give EU PTR as well, they did in WOW so dno why they can't in sc2.
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On April 27 2011 05:15 HellKey wrote:I want ptr for europe!
+1
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On April 27 2011 03:53 Jayrod wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 03:15 j3i wrote:
I was expecting a way for zerg to deal with forcefields, but I still like these changes. Maybe next time they'll make spine crawlers "massive." Burrow, ultras, air units, keeping sentry energy low through applying pressure, engaging in more open areas. There I gave you 5+ ways and I didnt even have to patch the game
Well, I was unclear. A sentry-heavy 4/5gate push is what I was referring to, but I suppose the "keeping sentry energy low through applying pressure" could work. I'm not sure about burrow.
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Salvage resource return reduced from 100% to 75%.
That one is def. my favorite :D
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As a Zerg player I'm glad to see that the research time for Warp Gate is a bit longer. I wonder if the proxy 2 gate Zealot rush will make a comeback with the reduced build times again though? 
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Of all the things they could have changed with Zerg. (Just to try it out) They want to fix Spore Crawlers. I guess its helpful, 12 seconds for a Spore to burrow is quite a long time.
Wish they would lower Spine relocation time.
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This hasn't been mentioned much in this thread, but I think this could end up being a pretty big buff patch for protoss' ability to expand in PVT early game.
By cutting down gateway build times, it may allow toss players to 3-gate expand with fast hallu and delay warpgates and robo for an early second nexus.
Buffed gateways >> can afford to delay warpgates even longer >> hallucination before warpgate research >> earlier scout >> earlier expand/tech decision
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lets the two gatting begin!!!
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On April 27 2011 05:21 willyallthewei wrote:
This hasn't been mentioned much in this thread, but I think this could end up being a pretty big buff patch for protoss' ability to expand in PVT early game.
By cutting down gateway build times, it may allow toss players to 3-gate expand with fast hallu and delay warpgates and robo for an early second nexus.
Buffed gateways >> can afford to delay warpgates even longer >> hallucination extra early >> earlier scout >> earlier expand/tech decision
Well blizzard never said their goal in this patch was to buff or nerf protoss, they just stated they want to fix pvp.
Not directed towards you or anyone in specific: FUCK YEA ARCHONS MASSIVE, WHAT WHAT COCUSSIVE SHELLS WHAT?
Though making archons massive will make that late late game void ray tech switch that much more powerful.
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Is this even live on the ptr server? was just playing, hit 100 gas and went to make a ghost, it was still 150.
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EPT
