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Massive units are not affected by concussive shells. If you think they are, you are wrong.
It's SPORE crawlers that are being changed, not SPINE. Please read carefully. |
On April 26 2011 14:42 ehalf wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 14:25 [Atomic]Peace wrote:I'm going to go with Tyler on the Warpgate change:
I'm tired of casual play negatively affecting pro play (4gate being addressed in next patch). Rule changes should happen only when necessary
He nails it. The change simply isn't necessary and is only being made to cater to casual play. Is it difficult to hold off a 4 warp gate? It can be. Is the build usually powerful for how easy it is to execute? Sure. But with proper training you can hold off 4 warp gate 100% of the time. By definition it is not imbalanced. Tyler being totally wrong here. 4gate isnt that strong in casual play, even in many low level tournament we see many pro/semi-pro cant execute 4gate precisely and get beaten by other builds. It's the pro play that made 4gate unstoppable like MC. MC's 4gate vs 4gate only got denied once in televised games, by San.
White Ra did it as well.
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archon massive, bunker not free! AWESOME! finally puts a risk for bunker rushes that are unsuccesful!  I like these changes, and the pylon power reduction helps with warp ins at the top since the pylon now needs to be closer to the high ground and thus easier to snipe! :D
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On April 26 2011 14:43 Schtroumpfs wrote:I'm will write up a resume of each matchup, because I switch from Z to P ( bored of 4gate) to T. ZvT + Show Spoiler +Spore root time from 12 to 6
Not bad, it makes the Cloak Banshee Rush less scary
Fixed a bug where players were still able to stack flying units on top of each other.
Good now i'm sure to Magic Box the Thors, awesome !
Ghost's cost changed from 150/150 to 200/100.
Well I guess that with the Fungal buff they need something to help.
TvZ + Show Spoiler +Ghost's cost changed from 150/150 to 200/100.Fixed a bug where Ghosts could not quickly EMP the same location.Now I have finaly a good response to Infestor ! Spore root time from 12 to 6 sadface my Cloak Banshee Rush is now less effective Fixed a bug where players were still able to stack flying units on top of each other.How i'm suppose to fight Muta with Thor when my Splash Damage is so inneffective ? I guess I have to train Ghost, and Snipe every Muta in my way ! *sarcasm ZvP + Show Spoiler +
Pylon power radius has been decreased from 7.5 to 6.5.
NICE ! Wall-in is more difficult for him ! Niark niark !
Research Warp Gate time increased from 140 to 180
Perfect :D
Spore root time from 12 to 6
Take that in your teeth Void and DT !
Zealot train time decreased from 38 to 33.
:O ...2 gate...my new nightmare...
PvZ + Show Spoiler +
Zealot train time decreased from 38 to 33.
:O...2 gate...my new dream...
Spore root time from 12 to 6
My poor DTs and Void :,(...but i still have 2 gate
TvP + Show Spoiler +Archons are now a massive unit.Damn those Archon ! I can't kite them anymore ! Research Warp Gate time increased from 140 to 180.More Safe Build...excellent Ghost's cost changed from 150/150 to 200/100.Fixed a bug where Ghosts could not quickly EMP the same location.It's a "ok" way to deal with archon...But no more Psi Storm YEAH !  PvT + Show Spoiler +
Archons are now a massive unit.
No more Kiting !
Ghost's cost changed from 150/150 to 200/100.
WHY ?????!!!!! ! ! ! ? ? EMP is just too much for me ...
ZvZ + Show Spoiler +
Spore root time from 12 to 6
Player 1: Look my Spore can root faster !
Player 2: Me too !
Player 1: ...
Player 2: ...
Player 1: ...
Player 2: ...
Player 1: ...
Player 2: ...
Player 1: ...
Player 2: ...
Player 1: I'll make zergling...
Player 2 : Me too !
TvT + Show Spoiler +
Salvage resource return reduced from 100% to 75%.
Player 1: Shit I lost 25 minerals because of his early push
Player 1: ...
Player 1: so what ?
Ghost's cost changed from 150/150 to 200/100.
Nice, my nukes are now 50 gaz cheaper, thanks Blizzard !
Oh but i don't use nukes in TvT
...
PvP + Show Spoiler +
NO MORE 4GATE
I'll get serious for a moment because the entire matchup is going to evolve ( finally).
every protoss has now a problem : Discover new builds orders
Worst : Create a Mid-game...
Unknown : The Late-game...
I mean actualy, we don't know anything.
Fast expend in PvP ? Every nerves in my body say no, but maybe we can now.
Mech and Stargate play ? Maybe
I'm just too thankful to blizzard to have do this patch, I LOVE YOU ! <3
I completely agree with this, except you neglected to mention the impact of this patch upon bunker rushes in ZvT... although with a cost of 25 minerals perhaps the impact will be near zero.
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On April 26 2011 14:42 ehalf wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 14:25 [Atomic]Peace wrote:I'm going to go with Tyler on the Warpgate change:
I'm tired of casual play negatively affecting pro play (4gate being addressed in next patch). Rule changes should happen only when necessary
https://twitter.com/#!/TylerWasieleski/status/61786904529616896He nails it. The change simply isn't necessary and is only being made to cater to casual play. Is it difficult to hold off a 4 warp gate? It can be. Is the build usually powerful for how easy it is to execute? Sure. But with proper training you can hold off 4 warp gate 100% of the time. By definition it is not imbalanced. Tyler being totally wrong here. 4gate isnt that strong in casual play, even in many low level tournament we see many pro/semi-pro cant execute 4gate precisely and get beaten by other builds. It's the pro play that made 4gate unstoppable like MC. MC's 4gate vs 4gate only got denied once in televised games, by San.
Yup. Tyler is wrong. MC could heavy sentry 4 gate his way to every GSL finals. I've never seen him lose it except to white ra once.
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This patch does NOTHING to 4 gate people will just wait 40 seconds build up and than move out with a bigger army.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On April 26 2011 14:43 Dingobloo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 14:41 lambchops wrote:
I didn't read every post, but does anyone else think that this might pose a huge problem early game for protoss for all the other match ups? If I recall correctly, stim finishes a whole 20 seconds before warpgate now, assuming warpgate/stim starts at the same time, they have a 30 second window to just wreck havoc to the protoss, if not just win with a strong stim timing push. I'm mid diamond and I've been hitting a lot of zergs who like to do that 3 roach/24 ling pressure(all in?) and it's already hard enough to stop that while going 3 gates with the current warp gate timing. Any suggestions as to how to stop that in the future, with this patch? there is currently no penalty for staying on gateways now, so warp gate being later should not effect how many units you have out, in fact you may have 1 or 2 more, what you don't have is the offensive capability.
Several timings relied on warpgates coming on line right and warping in a round so as to not get rolled. When you get the units at the end, there isn't that surge. This may be balanced out by earlier units coming quicker, so more can be built, but there is a legitimate question there
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139 Posts
Schtroumpfs
Pretty well writen
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didnt blizz say the warpgate time research increase was to save pvp and not affect other matchups?
wont that actually affect some people's build timings in the other matchups? and i dont mean 4gate.
archon massiveness is great and all, but to be honest, if you compare the 'oomf' of a colossus and an archon, the colossus is always more worth it. you only really made archons to have some use for templars after storm. so u didnt really have THAT many archons in ur army anyway...
i like the ghost cost change, their usage isnt nearly as widespread as it should be. Even if the army isnt templar or immortal heavy, emp was still... kinda awesome. and snipe is pretty great against anything that zerg sends other than uh...mass zergling or something o.o
yay spore change! but zerg players dont start asking for spine root change too -_- at least be thankful your static defenses can move. OR, blizzard can give back the moving photon cannon and make turrets move. that would be sick too o.o
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On April 26 2011 14:47 Rasky wrote:
This patch does NOTHING to 4 gate people will just wait 40 seconds build up and than move out with a bigger army.
Sorry, this is failed logic for example. PvP you will have time to get that exstra sentry out/immortal - Zerg (will have more workers you 4 gated) 40 more seconds is that much more time his econ is kicked in thus resuliting in more units/more spines if he scouts. TvP same thing except bunkers and mroe rauders also stim is same timing so it can be out. You must not be familiar with the matchups to state this.
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On April 26 2011 14:46 MUFFINS1 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 14:41 I Hott Sauce I wrote:
I'll never be satisfied until my Hydras get their speed back and a Nydus canal is silent once again That would be the most imbalanced thing in the world
That was in bw and it wasn't imbalanced.
I feel Zerg really doesn't need a buff aside from more mobility.
Hydras are pathetic in this game, and are pretty much being phased out. They need to become somewhat viable again.
Silent nydus would allow zerg so much more mobility all over the map, which is how the race should be played.
User was warned for this post
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On April 26 2011 14:41 fishjie wrote:
hmm, does this mean archons will be viable in pvp? now that they can break down force fields it could make the matchup a lot less stale.
Don't think so.. Archons are a huge gas dump, which is something you usually can't afford in PvP. Anyways, the standard army comp of stalker/colossi will rip through archons most likely.
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On April 26 2011 14:47 Rasky wrote:
This patch does NOTHING to 4 gate people will just wait 40 seconds build up and than move out with a bigger army.
Umm the scary thing about 4 gates is the speed it comes at. If u notice in most TvPs the bulk of the 4 gate comes when terran is just finishing siege tech, now terran can get it's siege out before the warpgate comes therefore being able to hold without throwing out 300 early game minerals in temporary bunker defense. If u are going pure bio then a 4gate is retarded regardless.
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On April 26 2011 14:44 Reborn8u wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 26 2011 14:42 FilmNoir wrote:
Would hallucinated archons now be resistant to concussive shells? If so, couldn't they become huge damage shields from both MMM and mech since they do have that 350 shield, acknowledging that hallucinations take double damage, but would only cost you the 100 sentry energy (granted which could be guardian shield or force field) instead of 100 minerals and 300 gas... maybe even eat up some ghost EMPs depending on the level of your terran opponent?
Just a thought. Especially following up with the players who discussed getting hallucination before warpgate since scouting and knowledge can be priceless in this delicate of a game. Don't hallucinated immortals still get hard shields? Probably a better thing to hallucinate over archons for a meat shield.
Against tanks, yeah I guess hallucinated immortals, assuming they still have hardened shields, would absorb more volleys, but against MMM, the archons would absorb a marginal amount of damage more, probably not worth it if hallucinating archons (or immortals for that matter) takes extra time to do (not knowing hotkeys,etc)
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I don't understand why people so sooo scare about 2 gates. In normal 2 gates, units have to cross the map. Proxy gates, can be stop and scouted and its all in unlike proxy rax. Also once you destroy proxy gates, you win. But if you destroy proxy plyons. There's still many pylons around and only cost 100.
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On April 26 2011 14:47 Rasky wrote:
This patch does NOTHING to 4 gate people will just wait 40 seconds build up and than move out with a bigger army.
You make it sound like 40 seconds is nothing. It's enough for instance to get out an immortal or maybe even a DT, timing in an RTS is everything and a strategy like 4 gate has a small timing window until tech builds begin to pay off.
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On April 26 2011 14:47 Rasky wrote:
This patch does NOTHING to 4 gate people will just wait 40 seconds build up and than move out with a bigger army.
For pvp? Do you know what a 3 gate robo could do in the extra "40 seconds" the 4 gater is waiting?
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On April 26 2011 11:20 Jimbo77 wrote:Balance PROTOSS Pylon power radius has been decreased from 7.5 to 6.5. This will be very interesting, i think its a good thing for them to test with but before i have much of an opinion i will need to see how this plays outCybernetics Core Research Warp Gate time increased from 140 to 180. this is amazing. PvP will become a much better match-up overall imo and players wont be able to get by on 4-gate like they have been. 4-gates been a great and essential strategy that every protoss player could use effectively once they have it under their belt, however players wont be able to get by on ladder by abusing it which i value greatly.Gateway Sentry train time decreased from 42 to 37. Stalker train time decreased from 42 to 37. Zealot train time decreased from 38 to 33. time to start chicken for proxies! obviously all these are needed in accordance with the aforementioned warp-gate research time change not much to comment on Warp Gate unit train times remain unchanged. TERRAN Ghost Cost changed from 150/150 to 200/100. Salvage resource return reduced from 100% to 75%. idk how i feel about this. Norisk to low risk, its small but good nontheless.ZERG Spore Crawler Root time decreased from 12 to 6. i like this change, im not sure what they were aiming for with this but i guess in clutch situations lairless zergs with spores may have a better chance against dts, this change doesnt scream banshee imo though
Im excited about this protoss stuff, i really want to see how it all plays out.
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On April 26 2011 14:47 Rasky wrote:
This patch does NOTHING to 4 gate people will just wait 40 seconds build up and than move out with a bigger army.
Yes it does. Give 3 gate robo a chance. Gives cannon walls / phoenix prob harrass with expansion a chance.
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On April 26 2011 14:43 CoSyN wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 14:29 GDbushido wrote:On April 26 2011 14:25 [Atomic]Peace wrote:I'm going to go with Tyler on the Warpgate change:
I'm tired of casual play negatively affecting pro play (4gate being addressed in next patch). Rule changes should happen only when necessary
https://twitter.com/#!/TylerWasieleski/status/61786904529616896He nails it. The change simply isn't necessary and is only being made to cater to casual play. Is it difficult to hold off a 4 warp gate? It can be. Is the build usually powerful for how easy it is to execute? Sure. But with proper training you can hold off 4 warp gate 100% of the time. By definition it is not imbalanced. i hate to burst your bubble but blizzard does not care about the pros concerning balance. pros are going to play no matter what. blizzard cares about shipping as many copies as possible, and that means pandering to noobs with stupid nerfs and an entire race designed to be played by adolescents (guess). You're wrong. Blizzard cares more for the professional scene of SC2, not the general scene. Do you think they would listen to the whines of casual gamers, good and bad alike? Why would they sacrifice the balance of the game for money, making all the SC2 pros go back to BW? SC2 would die away. Don't think progamers are so hooked to only SC2 that they will play it no matter what. Also, your statement bashing a race (I'm pretty sure I know which one you are referring to, but I won't mention it) on the skill level required to play it is very amateur. read my post again.
the professional scene is going to continue to grow no matter what changes blizzard makes. there's too much money involved now for people to just give up on it, especially in the west. if you're a north american gamer, SC2 is your only hope of making any real money.
with that in mind, blizzard can nerf the game to hell as long as it keeps copies flying off the shelves and money flowing into leagues likes NASL and IGN, because that means there will always be pros fighting for a payout.
and no, its not amateur at all to recognize that terran is easily the simplest race to play. at the elite level there is no skill difference, but among the masses terran is certainly the easiest race to be competitive with without resorting to "cheese" (4gate/cannon/6pool/etc).
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I like the ghost cost change alot. Could open up alot of interesting builds and become more commonplace in Terran compostion IMO .
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EPT
