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Massive units are not affected by concussive shells. If you think they are, you are wrong.
It's SPORE crawlers that are being changed, not SPINE. Please read carefully. |
On April 26 2011 14:25 [Atomic]Peace wrote:I'm going to go with Tyler on the Warpgate change: Show nested quote +
I'm tired of casual play negatively affecting pro play (4gate being addressed in next patch). Rule changes should happen only when necessary
He nails it. The change simply isn't necessary and is only being made to cater to casual play. Is it difficult to hold off a 4 warp gate? It can be. Is the build usually powerful for how easy it is to execute? Sure. But with proper training you can hold off 4 warp gate 100% of the time. By definition it is not imbalanced. i hate to burst your bubble but blizzard does not care about the pros concerning balance. pros are going to play no matter what.
blizzard cares about shipping as many copies as possible, and that means pandering to noobs with stupid nerfs and an entire race designed to be played by adolescents (guess).
User was warned for this post
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On April 26 2011 14:15 human_ko wrote:
can anyone tell me why archon being massive is a buff?
as far as I know it cant be lifted by phoen, cant be slowered by maur, cant be ffed
Marauders can't kite them like before anymore, unless they gotta stim and micro much more than that.
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On April 26 2011 14:25 [Atomic]Peace wrote:I'm going to go with Tyler on the Warpgate change: Show nested quote +
I'm tired of casual play negatively affecting pro play (4gate being addressed in next patch). Rule changes should happen only when necessary
https://twitter.com/#!/TylerWasieleski/status/61786904529616896He nails it. The change simply isn't necessary and is only being made to cater to casual play. Is it difficult to hold off a 4 warp gate? It can be. Is the build usually powerful for how easy it is to execute? Sure. But with proper training you can hold off 4 warp gate 100% of the time. By definition it is not imbalanced.
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Blizzard has stated before these patch notes came out that the warpgate change will be only to help change up PvP and allow for a wider variation of stategies. They don't consider a change needed for TvP and PvZ in regards to 4-gate necessary at all.
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On April 26 2011 14:27 ch33psh33p wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 14:25 [Atomic]Peace wrote:I'm going to go with Tyler on the Warpgate change:
I'm tired of casual play negatively affecting pro play (4gate being addressed in next patch). Rule changes should happen only when necessary
https://twitter.com/#!/TylerWasieleski/status/61786904529616896He nails it. The change simply isn't necessary and is only being made to cater to casual play. Is it difficult to hold off a 4 warp gate? It can be. Is the build usually powerful for how easy it is to execute? Sure. But with proper training you can hold off 4 warp gate 100% of the time. By definition it is not imbalanced. Tyler may have missed the boat on this one. Blizzard was trying to address 4 gate in PvP, which defines the matchup. They did not make this nerf for 4gates in PvZ and PvT, those are easy to hold with proper training regardless.
I don't think he did. There are other ways to address the issues related to 4 Gate in PvP. For example, I think it would be a fantastic change to make Colossus to 50% damage to massive. This simultaneously lowers the power of the Protoss death ball while making gateway units more important in PvP engagements. Heck, with the Archon change it might even make template a valid tech choice in PvP.
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i love most of the changes even as a protoss player having the warpgate time nerfed.
but way to mess zealot training time up.
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On April 26 2011 14:25 [Atomic]Peace wrote:I'm going to go with Tyler on the Warpgate change: Show nested quote +
I'm tired of casual play negatively affecting pro play (4gate being addressed in next patch). Rule changes should happen only when necessary
https://twitter.com/#!/TylerWasieleski/status/61786904529616896He nails it. The change simply isn't necessary and is only being made to cater to casual play. Is it difficult to hold off a 4 warp gate? It can be. Is the build usually powerful for how easy it is to execute? Sure. But with proper training you can hold off 4 warp gate 100% of the time. By definition it is not imbalanced.
Tyler gotta be shitting me. 4 gate doesn't effect pro play? As WhiteRa said, "4 gate is besty."
It's not that it's overwhelmingly strong, it's how it effects the metagame. It strains the kind of strategies you can do so much (speaking of PvP.)
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I think the cancelling nexus cheese is the biggest problem I have with protoss :/ wish that were being addressed.
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Did the PTR update to actually let us try these changes yet?
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On April 26 2011 11:20 Jimbo77 wrote:
Fixed a bug where players were still able to stack flying units on top of each other.
WTF Blizzard? Seriously? Why?
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On April 26 2011 14:29 GDbushido wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 14:25 [Atomic]Peace wrote:I'm going to go with Tyler on the Warpgate change:
I'm tired of casual play negatively affecting pro play (4gate being addressed in next patch). Rule changes should happen only when necessary
https://twitter.com/#!/TylerWasieleski/status/61786904529616896He nails it. The change simply isn't necessary and is only being made to cater to casual play. Is it difficult to hold off a 4 warp gate? It can be. Is the build usually powerful for how easy it is to execute? Sure. But with proper training you can hold off 4 warp gate 100% of the time. By definition it is not imbalanced. i hate to burst your bubble but blizzard does not care about the pros concerning balance. pros are going to play no matter what. blizzard cares about shipping as many copies as possible, and that means pandering to noobs with stupid nerfs and an entire race designed to be played by adolescents (guess).
I wouldn't be so sure. E-Sports represents a huge market as well. Sure Blizzard makes a lot of money selling copies of the game, but that only happening the year the game is out. E-Sports is a constant stream of revenue for years after the game is released.
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On April 26 2011 14:32 AndAgain wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 14:25 [Atomic]Peace wrote:I'm going to go with Tyler on the Warpgate change:
I'm tired of casual play negatively affecting pro play (4gate being addressed in next patch). Rule changes should happen only when necessary
https://twitter.com/#!/TylerWasieleski/status/61786904529616896He nails it. The change simply isn't necessary and is only being made to cater to casual play. Is it difficult to hold off a 4 warp gate? It can be. Is the build usually powerful for how easy it is to execute? Sure. But with proper training you can hold off 4 warp gate 100% of the time. By definition it is not imbalanced. Tyler gotta be shitting me. 4 gate doesn't effect pro play? As WhiteRa said, "4 gate is besty." It's not that it's overwhelmingly strong, it's how it effects the metagame. It strains the kind of strategies you can do so much (speaking of PvP.)
I totally agree. 4gate needed to be addressed. I'm still shaky on the zealot timing, but we'll see how that pans out. I'm glad PvP won't just be straight 4 gates now.
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On April 26 2011 14:32 Wolf wrote:
Did the PTR update to actually let us try these changes yet?
not yet, just tested
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On April 26 2011 14:32 AndAgain wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 14:25 [Atomic]Peace wrote:I'm going to go with Tyler on the Warpgate change:
I'm tired of casual play negatively affecting pro play (4gate being addressed in next patch). Rule changes should happen only when necessary
https://twitter.com/#!/TylerWasieleski/status/61786904529616896He nails it. The change simply isn't necessary and is only being made to cater to casual play. Is it difficult to hold off a 4 warp gate? It can be. Is the build usually powerful for how easy it is to execute? Sure. But with proper training you can hold off 4 warp gate 100% of the time. By definition it is not imbalanced. Tyler gotta be shitting me. 4 gate doesn't effect pro play? As WhiteRa said, "4 gate is besty." It's not that it's overwhelmingly strong, it's how it effects the metagame. It strains the kind of strategies you can do so much (speaking of PvP.)
I think he's more referring to the stability of the game, As a pro he would prefer changes to be made only when absolutely necessary, not just when they want to make a match up have more viable openers, in PvP you could push the game to it's later stages just by defensive 4 gating. It wasn't interesting, but the changes they're going to do are going to effect all 3 match ups as 4 gate is almost entirely off the table.
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On April 26 2011 14:29 GDbushido wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 14:25 [Atomic]Peace wrote:I'm going to go with Tyler on the Warpgate change:
I'm tired of casual play negatively affecting pro play (4gate being addressed in next patch). Rule changes should happen only when necessary
https://twitter.com/#!/TylerWasieleski/status/61786904529616896He nails it. The change simply isn't necessary and is only being made to cater to casual play. Is it difficult to hold off a 4 warp gate? It can be. Is the build usually powerful for how easy it is to execute? Sure. But with proper training you can hold off 4 warp gate 100% of the time. By definition it is not imbalanced. i hate to burst your bubble but blizzard does not care about the pros concerning balance. pros are going to play no matter what. blizzard cares about shipping as many copies as possible, and that means pandering to noobs with stupid nerfs and an entire race designed to be played by adolescents (guess).
you know a loser when you see one. im surprised you are not instantly perma banned from TL
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On April 26 2011 14:33 [Atomic]Peace wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 14:29 GDbushido wrote:On April 26 2011 14:25 [Atomic]Peace wrote:I'm going to go with Tyler on the Warpgate change:
I'm tired of casual play negatively affecting pro play (4gate being addressed in next patch). Rule changes should happen only when necessary
https://twitter.com/#!/TylerWasieleski/status/61786904529616896He nails it. The change simply isn't necessary and is only being made to cater to casual play. Is it difficult to hold off a 4 warp gate? It can be. Is the build usually powerful for how easy it is to execute? Sure. But with proper training you can hold off 4 warp gate 100% of the time. By definition it is not imbalanced. i hate to burst your bubble but blizzard does not care about the pros concerning balance. pros are going to play no matter what. blizzard cares about shipping as many copies as possible, and that means pandering to noobs with stupid nerfs and an entire race designed to be played by adolescents (guess). I wouldn't be so sure. E-Sports represents a huge market as well. Sure Blizzard makes a lot of money selling copies of the game, but that only happening the year the game is out. E-Sports is a constant stream of revenue for years after the game is released.
yup, this is not about selling copies or just catering to noobs. blizzard is not as stupid as you think. they understand the importance of esports and know that sc2 is leading a new wave in esports...
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On April 26 2011 11:20 Jimbo77 wrote:Balance PROTOSS Archons are now a massive unit. Pylon power radius has been decreased from 7.5 to 6.5. Cybernetics Core Research Warp Gate time increased from 140 to 180. Gateway Sentry train time decreased from 42 to 37. Stalker train time decreased from 42 to 37. Zealot train time decreased from 38 to 33. Warp Gate unit train times remain unchanged. TERRAN Ghost Cost changed from 150/150 to 200/100. Salvage resource return reduced from 100% to 75%. ZERG Spore Crawler Root time decreased from 12 to 6. Bug Fixes Fixed a bug where Ghosts could not quickly EMP the same location. Fixed a bug where players were still able to stack flying units on top of each other. http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/1213111662IMO Ghost cost change is a little buff. And zerg buff once again. Nothing concerning expected infestors nerf, sadly.
Sweet! Time to get test out stuff! I think what archons really need is to increase the speed a bit. No love for the carrier yet  . The Ghost change is okay, it was costing an insane amount of gas. And spore root time seems good too, though spine would've been quite nice.
And 2 gating might be a bit more valid now! 
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Wow this patch looks great to me as a protoss player.
Archons not being able to hit marauders ever is retarded, fixed.
Pylon radius shrinkage is great.
Gateway build time decrease is great.
Warpgate research time is probably too much and will affect non-pvp, I think the other changes alone are sufficient.
Bunkers are no longer absurd.
We'll get to see more ghost play.
Really couldn't ask for much more. Maybe something for carriers so 10 marines can't kill all your interceptors in 3 seconds.
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On April 26 2011 11:25 Looms wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 11:23 29 fps wrote:
are the gateway times gonna be faster than warpgate times for the same units? warp gates are still faster Can't wait until they talk about these balance changes on State of the Game tomorrow.
Hopefully they've actually read the notes and JP doesn't give them wrong information like every other patch they've ever talked about.
Also I look forward to the massive amount of BM I'll get when I pew pew with 2 gate zealot rushes on the ladder.
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On April 26 2011 11:52 entropius wrote:
And, once again, zerg still have no non-ass way to shoot at colossi and hydras (except for a very narrow use) still suck.
The problem in PvZ was the Cruncher-style "turtle until 200 and a-move" style, and these changes do absolutely nothing to address it.
Some of these changes are good -- archon change, salvage change, and 4gate timing changes. None of this addresses the fact that zerg can't win PvZ that goes beyond 10 minutes (before you call me a troll, look at recent tournament records -- there is some statistical validity here).
Edit: I don't think 2gate will be the problem it once was, since the maps are bigger these days. Proxy gateway shenanigans, perhaps.
You about a month late with this Zerg QQ. Zerg been getting their own colossi on ladder and Losira's stream these days. Own up GW good. Mark my words: infestor will be nerfed within 2 months.
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Yeeees! Protoss nerf!
But "Zealot train time decreased from 38 to 33" = a lot of proxy 2 gates incomming
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EPT
