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Massive units are not affected by concussive shells. If you think they are, you are wrong. It's SPORE crawlers that are being changed, not SPINE. Please read carefully. | ||
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XXXSmOke
United States1333 Posts
On April 26 2011 13:53 hitman133 wrote: Time to fuck Terran balls up with mass archons lol. Archons + immortals + HTs, you can't deny it! Just need to fb ghost and I'll be good to go lol j/k tho Plz use that combo, I love 10 hp archons/shieldless immortals/ and energy less HT | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On April 26 2011 14:04 Severian wrote: The warpgate cooldown begins when the unit starts warping in, so Warpgates are actually still 5 seconds faster even with the patch. Ah, forgot about that. Thank you for correcting me; I'm gonna go edit my posts now x] On April 26 2011 14:05 pure_protoss wrote: kirishiwa have you ever faced lings+all drones all in? 1zealot and probes arent enough... also...1pylon 1 gate 1 forge as mentionned by susysquark is not enough since he will focus the pylon (or the forge since they both work) and will destroy the wall in before the canon gets up. Then it is GG (assuming you dont go for forge first because it will put you even more behind zerg economically if he doesnt 6 pool) So many things wrong with this...not even sure how to address this but... A 6-8 pool is easy to hold even if they pull drones if you scout and react properly. All you have to do is either pull sufficient probes to fight off the 6 lings and 6-8 drones OR to just completely wall off with a pylon(s) to delay for the zealot. Zergs had the ability to focus fire pylons before this patch so I have no idea what you're talking about in your second point... | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On April 26 2011 13:47 -Archangel- wrote: These changes are kind of strange. Toss changes do not actually change 4gate. Why? Simple math. Just have your 4 gateways built at the same time as before but instead of warping 4 units you build them. Build time for sentry/stalker is 37s, but WG research is +40s. So what this change makes is that your 1st "warping" is at home. How many toss used their 1st warping away? Placing a pylon well after that for second warping can start the 4gate as well as before. The pylon nerf is more significant for PvP then +40s for warpgates. I do not like the ghost buff, they should not be less gas intensive then infestors/HT. This will be huge, both in TvP and TvZ. Zerg buff is bullshit, if they really wanted to buff zerg early AA they would have given spores +1 range. the difference in pylon power means that a pylon has to be in stalker range in order to warp into a base (due to the width of cliffs and units) which means that your base is often much safer. | ||
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reptile
United States210 Posts
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dusthoof
279 Posts
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Arkless
Canada1547 Posts
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FiWiFaKi
Canada9859 Posts
Warpgate change is huuge. The way I see it, 3 gate robo holds 4 gate easily now... And 3 gate pheonix seems viable too because 4 gate is so late you can have those sentry. And there will be a nice mix of those two builds, Im curious if expanding will be possible, probably against a 3 gate robo it could work, either way, I liked 4 gate PvP, but I suppose Ill have to get used to this one. Also it seems like having 1 gate in your base, and 2 proxy gateways could be strong too. PvZ it shouldn't change 4 gate much as there it tends to arrive those 40-60 seconds later because you wait for more warp-ins and get a second gas too. PvT I don't see the change doing too much either. No big problems with these changes for me. As for shorter build times in gateways... 2 gate zealot won't beucg stronger IMO, but there are some good timings like the zealot + stalker pressure that might catch Zerg off guard if I have an extra 10 seconds. Lastly, the archon change is good... PvT they will actually get shots of and not get kited, seems to me people will be more lenient to get HT after this. For Zerg, the spore change seems somewhat unnecessary, that really weakens VR play, and I felt zergs were fine with it, however shouldn't effect me too much as I go pure pheonix with stargate. And lastly for terran, more spell casters is good IMO, but what bothers me is the really lame emp animation. And the bunker change is miniscule, also since you're salviging it later money is less valuable, and it's like you were only losing 10 mins. | ||
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Arkless
Canada1547 Posts
On April 26 2011 14:11 dusthoof wrote: Fcuk you Concussive Shells !!! Taste the wraith of my Archons !!! they can still be slowed not stunned. Much like ultras thors and cols User was warned for this post | ||
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dusthoof
279 Posts
On April 26 2011 14:11 TRG wrote: How is zerg supposed to deal with double proxy gates? I'm pretty worried about how powerful it's going to be. In the past zerg has to fear proxy plyons...you should be grateful. At least when you hold off proxy gates you win. You hold off proxy pylon, protoss only lost 100 minerals. So why so worry? | ||
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TheDemigod
Australia79 Posts
On April 26 2011 14:12 Arkless wrote: they can still be slowed not stunned. Much like ultras thors and cols Oh boy, here we go again. | ||
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da_head
Canada3350 Posts
Also, fixing 4 gate? Fuck yes blizzard. | ||
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human_ko
Russian Federation676 Posts
as far as I know it cant be lifted by phoen, cant be slowered by maur, cant be ffed | ||
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Rexar123
Croatia49 Posts
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dusthoof
279 Posts
On April 26 2011 14:12 Arkless wrote: they can still be slowed not stunned. Much like ultras thors and cols Massive units can't get slow.. | ||
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DannyJ
United States5110 Posts
On April 26 2011 14:12 Arkless wrote: they can still be slowed not stunned. Much like ultras thors and cols but but but... the post on the top... Anywho, i like the changes. 4 gate definitely is majorly weakened, which fixes the main (easily fixable) problem sc2 has had for a very very long time. | ||
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Sigz
Canada86 Posts
Proxy gates will be stronger now Basically leads me to believe a wall off against toss will be a lot better now especially with being able to snipe the pylon easier from in base. Bunker salvage nerf... doesn't bother me at all... 25 mins for the extra defense in times you need it is definitely worth the cost... especially if you are marine centric Spore Crawler build time buff... i think its good, will allow for better mobility of the detection/aa... people complaining that spines should be buffed, I think it would be somewhat detrimental to buff it to 6 secs due to offensive spines, although 12 seconds may be still too long (9-10 seconds may be more appropriate). Ghost change +50 mins -50 gas... I like it... I think the purpose of the change is to make the ghost more common in the midgame... 150 gas a pop is pretty expensive, a reduction will allow some mixing in of upgrades, medis, vikings, while allowing you to have some ghosts on the field. MM compositions will now have better synergies with ghosts because you won't need as much gas and will still be able to get some medis or vikings if needed + upgardes that will benefit all your units. It is impossible trying to mix in ghosts in the early to mid game without being severely bio centric with less then optimal upgrades and usually few to no rauders. Furthermore it will allow ghosts to be mixed in earlier to mech builds which are gas intensive. I think late game you will actually see more ghosts now because you will cut out some hellions or rines (obviously not all as you will still need a pure mineral sink) for some ghosts which fulfill the same roles but have some added utility. I just hope I can hear a lot more mass sniping sounds in the pro games and maybe some nukes will be dropped. If nukes do get dropped more often I think the benefit of the spore crawler change may come into more effect... if its your only detection and your about to get nuked you can move it and kill the ghost in time if it was just slightly out of range. Obviously situational but the fact that the other ghosts around can easily snipe an overseer in the area may not leave you with any other alternatives if you don't have infestors. Mid level terran's pov. | ||
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Mastermind
Canada7096 Posts
On April 26 2011 14:12 Arkless wrote: they can still be slowed not stunned. Much like ultras thors and cols No. | ||
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Chairman Ray
United States11903 Posts
Shit just got real | ||
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Severian
Australia2052 Posts
On April 26 2011 14:12 Arkless wrote: Thank you for making ghosts viable. Thank you for putting toss somewhat on par even though more areas need a nerf bat hardcore. Increase warp in cd, decrease all gateway unit build time. Take away thermal lance. Then someone can actually call themselves good when they win with P. On April 26 2011 14:12 Arkless wrote: they can still be slowed not stunned. Much like ultras thors and cols My kingdom for a report button. | ||
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DuneBug
United States668 Posts
Not sure how I feel about warpgate changes, i hope 4gate is still viable against zerg so I can get more free wins. Well, nearly free. I'm pretty sure they changed gateway build times a while back, or at least zealot build times because they said "proxy 2gate was too strong" and now they're reversing that so obviously we'll see proxy 2 gate a lot on the ladder for awhile. It used to be pretty common. Bunker salvage is probably necessary but I don't think anyone cares. I don't. 25 minerals whoop dee doo. ARCHON BUFF.... Omg soo awesome. Obviously no more conc. shells on archons is the most important but for other MU's? I guess void rays is the only thing that will do more damage to them, lol? (why wasnt this changed like a year ago) This ought to make templar tech slightly more viable against terran. I guess since they can break ff's that might change the way PvP is played also. /begin rant. I'd really like to see queen speed raised, it's just a stupid mechanic. I understand it was put there to stop queen pushes and a queen walking all the way across the map and the hatch cancel trick.. And it was stupid then, protoss can cannon rush. terran can bunker rush. why shouldn't zerg be able to crawler rush if the opponent is too lazy to have an army to queen snipe.. /rant. | ||
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