EPTPatch 1.3.3 PTR - Page 35
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Massive units are not affected by concussive shells. If you think they are, you are wrong. It's SPORE crawlers that are being changed, not SPINE. Please read carefully. | ||
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TheDemigod
Australia79 Posts
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On April 26 2011 13:55 hi_0 wrote: I'm not worried about a 2WARPgate proxy, i'm worried about a 2GATEWAY proxy. If they proxy now it takes them 38 seconds to build a zealot, whereas after the patch it will take 33 seconds Who the heck ever proxied warpgates anyways? If your opponent (or you) managed to get warpgates as proxy buildings they (or you) were probably going to win regardless. -.-; Seriously, this is getting ridiculous. Every other post about Protoss warpgate-gateway change is someone talking shit about how gateway buff changes Protoss macro past the early game. It's like these people don't even bother checking Liquipedia for simple build times. There will be NO DIFFERENCE in terms of gateway v. warpgate usage past the first few minutes of the game (at least at the upper levels of play where players can consistently use warpgates as soon as they are off cooldown). TL;DR: UNIT BUILD TIMES FROM WARPGATES ARE STILL SHORTER THAN GATEWAYS. Gateways are NOT faster than Warpgates now. On April 26 2011 13:58 AsianEcksDragon wrote: Yes but it's enough time for a defending protoss to get his robo tech up. That's more the result of the warpgate research time nerf than anything, imo. | ||
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pure_protoss
152 Posts
Therefore, you wont have enough money to hold it if you need a second pylon! In best case scenario, a very well executed 10gate chrono 1 zealot out might work with insane apm...and stil... | ||
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hi_0
Canada249 Posts
On April 26 2011 13:59 Ryuu314 wrote: Who the heck ever proxied warpgates anyways? If your opponent (or you) managed to get warpgates as proxy buildings they (or you) were probably going to win regardless. -.-; Seriously, this is getting ridiculous. Every other post about Protoss warpgate-gateway change is someone talking shit about how gateway buff changes Protoss macro past the early game. It's like these people don't even bother checking Liquipedia for simple build times. There will be NO DIFFERENCE in terms of gateway v. warpgate usage past the first few minutes of the game (at least at the upper levels of play where players can consistently use warpgates as soon as they are off cooldown). TL;DR: UNIT BUILD TIMES FROM WARPGATES AND GATEWAYS ARE NOW THE SAME. Gateways are NOT faster than Warpgates now. That was my point, no one proxies warpgates, so why are u talking about warpgate times, when it is the gateway build times that we are worried about. | ||
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susySquark
United States1692 Posts
On April 26 2011 13:59 pure_protoss wrote: I think people doesnt understand...6 pool is gonna be a HUGEEE issue since 1 pylon will not be able to power full wall in of 2 gate+1 forge to hold a 6 pool (not enough pylon radius). Therefore, you wont have enough money to hold it if you need a second pylon! In best case scenario, a very well executed 10gate chrono 1 zealot out might work with insane apm...and stil... Why the heck would you wall with 2gates and a forge, instead of a gate and a forge and a pylon? save 50 gold, dont get supply blocked when pumping zealots, and faster cannon. BTW People, get on the PTR! I've been searching for a match for forever! | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10361 Posts
you don't even need a forge to stop a 6 pool; all you need is a 2nd pylon at your gateway and basic zealot micro and basic decision making regarding when and how many probes to pull off | ||
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valuDe
Germany13 Posts
On April 26 2011 13:47 -Archangel- wrote: These changes are kind of strange. Toss changes do not actually change 4gate. Why? Simple math. Just have your 4 gateways built at the same time as before but instead of warping 4 units you build them. Build time for sentry/stalker is 37s, but WG research is +40s. So what this change makes is that your 1st "warping" is at home. How many toss used their 1st warping away? Placing a pylon well after that for second warping can start the 4gate as well as before. The pylon nerf is more significant for PvP then +40s for warpgates. I do not like the ghost buff, they should not be less gas intensive then infestors/HT. This will be huge, both in TvP and TvZ. Zerg buff is bullshit, if they really wanted to buff zerg early AA they would have given spores +1 range. U just seem to have no clue of PvP 4gate. OFC u have to warpin first round in front, NOONE warps them in in his own base? pvp 4g was that strong coz it even hit before a first immortal could come out, at like 5:45 with 6 stalkers 1 zealot, warping in 4 stalkers in the front. 40s will make a huge difference, esp. on bigger maps even if u get out those units out of ur gateways u have to wait for them to walk over and still u will come like 30-40 seconds later, enough time for a first immortal and 2nd round of 3gates to come out. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On April 26 2011 14:00 hi_0 wrote: That was my point, no one proxies warpgates, so why are u talking about warpgate times, when it is the gateway build times that we are worried about. If you actually read the post of the guy I was responding to, you'd realize that he was talking about late-game Protoss play, where proxy buildings don't matter. Yes, I realize that gateway proxies will be stronger. But the crux of my posts isn't about that. It's about trying to fix the misconception people seem to have that gateways>warpgates past the first few minutes of the game, which is wrong. | ||
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sOAvoid
Canada206 Posts
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Aequos
Canada606 Posts
On April 26 2011 13:59 pure_protoss wrote: I think people doesnt understand...6 pool is gonna be a HUGEEE issue since 1 pylon will not be able to power full wall in of 2 gate+1 forge to hold a 6 pool (not enough pylon radius). Therefore, you wont have enough money to hold it if you need a second pylon! In best case scenario, a very well executed 10gate chrono 1 zealot out might work with insane apm...and stil... Are you certain that 1 Pylon can't cover a Gateway and a Forge? From what I can tell, each building has a size of 3x3, and the Pylon radius is 6.5. I think that it'll be fine, you just have to be slightly more careful with the pylon placement. | ||
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TheDemigod
Australia79 Posts
On April 26 2011 13:59 pure_protoss wrote: I think people doesnt understand...6 pool is gonna be a HUGEEE issue since 1 pylon will not be able to power full wall in of 2 gate+1 forge to hold a 6 pool (not enough pylon radius). Therefore, you wont have enough money to hold it if you need a second pylon! In best case scenario, a very well executed 10gate chrono 1 zealot out might work with insane apm...and stil... You can still wall in just fine wat. Considering you could fit like 8 buildings on 1 pylon i this reducing it by 1 hex won't make it so you can't fit 3 buildings on it. | ||
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Severian
Australia2052 Posts
On April 26 2011 13:52 Ryuu314 wrote: Erm...how so? Where are people getting the idea that gateways build faster than warpgates now?? Taken from Liquipedia, warpgate cooldowns are: Zealot - 28 seconds Stalker - 32 seconds Sentries - 32 seconds Add the 5 second warp-in time and you get the exact same build times as the gateway unit build time buff. There is practically no change in terms of the relationship between warpgates and gateways outside of the first few minutes of the game. After warpgate research is done, warpgates will again be superior to gateways due to much greater utility. Gateways are still going to see no use past the 6 minute mark. The warpgate cooldown begins when the unit starts warping in, so Warpgates are actually still 5 seconds faster even with the patch. | ||
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Nifel
706 Posts
On the other hand, Zerg might be able to expand without taking insane losses now. Loving these changes. | ||
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Everhate
United States640 Posts
Gut reaction: Reduces rock/paper/scissors feel of PvP. Should make Robo timing more forgiving, so 3-gate robo or 3-gate stargate may become more of the 'standard' builds, as this should allow immortals before the threatening pushes (as well as a slight nerf to blink rush, though that's more of a critical mass thing than a 'hit as soon as wg finishes thing'). Archon change should be very nice. Anything that makes Templar more common I enjoy. Could make DT openings more reasonable vs T (not that they're completely unreasonable, will have to see how it plays out). Slightly hilarious note: would be funny if hallucinated archons didn't get the colossus treatment and crushed FFs, but I'm sure they'll take care of that. As strange as it sounds, the change to ghosts may make a mech style a bit better, as gas is often a limiting resource, and you could support with ghosts more easily to help vs toss or infestors. Also may have interesting interractions with gold bases. Overall, love ghost plays (like templar and infestor plays) so anything that encourages that is good, imo. Don't think the spore change is huge...suppose it will allow you to move spores around with DTs around, without 1 being able to kill it before it can burrow. 2-gate in general I think won't be too bad against Z, as long as it's scouted, since, on most maps, you should be able to get a few roaches out. Proxy 2-gate will still be annoying, but I don't think it'll be game-breaking or hugely more common than it is now. Most excited for PvP changes, will have to see how everything plays out, but have hope things will work out =D | ||
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pure_protoss
152 Posts
also...1pylon 1 gate 1 forge as mentionned by susysquark is not enough since he will focus the pylon (or the forge since they both work) and will destroy the wall in before the canon gets up. Then it is GG (assuming you dont go for forge first because it will put you even more behind zerg economically if he doesnt 6 pool) | ||
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Belisarius
Australia6232 Posts
On April 26 2011 13:54 LoliKuma wrote: LKAJSDFLKASJDFLKASDF MASSIVE ARCHONS GIVES ME MASSIVE BONER This. Thank you, Blizzard, very proud. Also pretty happy with the warpgate change. The pylon radius is overkill, I feel. 40 seconds longer on warpgates means 4G is dead and buried, even with the old pylon radius. I think people will be surprised how badly this screws up the early-game simcity. Scrap station 15nex, for example, is now really, really hard to wall in time for speedlings. Also this. On April 26 2011 11:24 Xapti wrote: Patch 16: Zealot build time increased from 33 to 38. Patch 17: Zealot build time decreased from 38 to 33. Patch 1.1.0: Zealot build time increased from 33 to 38. Patch 1.3.3: Zealot train time decreased from 38 to 33. I'm glad we've been given something to counteract the WG nerf, but proxy 10/10 just got crazy again. I feel like Zerg is completely unable to 14 hatch, now, perhaps even against a standard 12gate. | ||
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Rebel_
Canada94 Posts
On April 26 2011 13:51 Devolved wrote: That's one point in one match-up. I was wondering about the bigger picture. How will it change strategies and timing rushes in different matchups? That sort of thing. I don't play Toss so it's hard for me to visualize exactly how this is going to play out. But thanks for your condescension; always appreciated. Yeah sure, it might for some games against maruaders and to break FF (ultra, collosi and thor)... So its a good thing... This will help against PvT a little more... For PvP, since the new patch is trying to get the 4 gate out, it will help against sentries... | ||
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uSnAmplified
United States1029 Posts
Im glad to see 75% salvage and i am not sure if the ghost change is good or bad i am not that experienced with terran. My only complain is that blizzard is not doing a little more to change ZvP, the spore crawler change will help vs stargate builds and warpgate change will weaken 4gate but strengthen 2gate. Overall kind of neutral, im still waiting on blizzard to do something or for a Z to finally solve the riddle for lategame toss. | ||
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Dingobloo
Australia1903 Posts
On April 26 2011 13:51 Devolved wrote: That's one point in one match-up. I was wondering about the bigger picture. How will it change strategies and timing rushes in different matchups? That sort of thing. I don't play Toss so it's hard for me to visualize exactly how this is going to play out. But thanks for your condescension; always appreciated. Shouldn't change ZvP, Doesn't change PvP much as colossus timings already broke force field such that it makes expanding behind anything except a few collosus really difficult (the amount you need for the 4 extra zealots to be a non issue) there might be a way for an Archon bust vs Robo to break the force fielded ramp but Archons are more supply efficient rather than cost efficient so they don't suit 1 base play. Edit: on the other hand, archon cannot be picked off by pheonix like colossus can, so this might actually change the rock paper scissors nature of the match up a little bit with blink stalker into Archon. | ||
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CoSyN
United States122 Posts
On April 26 2011 11:24 Xapti wrote: ROFL WAFL Patch 16: Zealot build time increased from 33 to 38. Patch 17: Zealot build time decreased from 38 to 33. Patch 1.1.0: Zealot build time increased from 33 to 38. Patch 1.3.3: Zealot train time decreased from 38 to 33. WTF M8? Is this true? Because if so.... LOL BLIZZARD!!! However, besides that, I think this is a very good patch. I think it will fix the issue on 4-gates and other very strong early Warpgate harassments. The pylon power radius is so that it would be harder to warp in units into an opponent's base, I'm assuming. However, I feel it may be too cramped, especially in the late game when you have about ten Warpgates, for a single pylon to have enough space to warp in a lot of units. But besides that... good job, Blizzard! | ||
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