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Massive units are not affected by concussive shells. If you think they are, you are wrong.
It's SPORE crawlers that are being changed, not SPINE. Please read carefully. |
On April 26 2011 13:13 Cabinet Sanchez wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 11:31 Dommk wrote:Why didn't they reduce the research time of hallucinate? This warpgate change pretty much reverts that buff  Scouting shouldn't be nerfed! Good point, I don't think many people would have thought of that :/ a shame.
Maybe with the Zealot/Stalker/Sentry train time reductions, we'll see builds that get hallucinate before warp gate. A Hallucination 3 gate all-in/pressure? Or simply faster scouting as terrans may be walling off more against the threat of 2 gate.
I like most of the changes but not the pylon power range reduction. My sim city sucks enough as it is. I'd also like to see bunkers go back to 35 second build time.
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Im not worried about the gateway change because the maps are larger and unless your close positions on slag or metal it shouldn't change much
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Canada4525 Posts
On April 26 2011 13:32 Devolved wrote:
Can someone explain how making Archons massive is going to affect gameplay in the different matchups?
If it's massive it should be able to break Forcefields and it won't be slowed by Conc shells, that being said..I don't see why it wouldn't just die like it normally does if targeted by a bio ball (it can just run away after it's morphed more likely).
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On April 26 2011 13:28 Jayrod wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 13:24 Cabinet Sanchez wrote:
As a Protoss player but more of a GSL, TSL watcher more than anything, I'd still like to see more Zerg buffs. I feel sorry for anyone playing that race. If you feel sorry for zerg you dont play this game and you probably read the forums too much. Im just glad blizzard has some sense in game design because if this was left up to the players 99% of them would fuck it up.
It's a general consensus from pro gamers not just forums that Z is in a difficult spot. I don't see why Zerg keep getting overlooked for balance constantly, besides tiny little changes.
I can tell you one thing, if someone said to me that I have to play a race besides Protoss, I sure as shit wouldn't choose Zerg.
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I'm finding Ghosts to be much more accessible in TvZ now that we won't have to worry about where the gas will come from when trying to fund mech units. Hell I could think of a ton of things to do with Ghosts in TvZ now that they're marginally more affordable early game; medivac drop queen sniping, countering the quick infestor we've been seeing more of, opening hellion ghost for map control in the early game which would now counter both a zergling AND roach opening.
So many possibilities are opening. I'd gladly take the 75% return on bunkers given more viability against Zerg.
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I heavily doubt this Patch will make PvZ any easier, if anything, it's gonna get a lot harder cuz of 2-gate Pressure and the still pretty small Maps, especially on Close-Position (Metal, Blackwater, Slag Pits etc.).
4-gateing will be a bit harder, but that just means they'll start getting their second Gas, a little more Probes and maybe all start cancelling the Nexus, so it will be a lot stronger if it comes and a lot harder to scout. The Problem with 4-gate isn't that you absolutely cannot hold it, but that it is hard to scout/definitely know it is a 4gate. With possible expansion-timing now being even closer, practically Identical with an incoming 4-gate, scouting will be pretty much useless (as it basically was up to now, cuz neither 2nd Gas nor Nexus nor more Stalkers nor Pylon at the Ramp was really an indicator of a 4gate anymore, but might as well have been an attempt to trick the Zerg).
Archon-Buff is massive (yeah - word-play!) in PvZ, cuz more and more Zergs started playing Ling+Baneling-Drops+Infestors and Archons were already very good against this style, now, with no Fungal Snare on Archons, they are gonna be insane.
I'm really wondering when Blizzard will finally change totally underused Units/Spells (HSM, Carriers etc.) and when they're gonna give Zerg a decent and maybe even creative buff...
I kinda like the patch though, it will breathe new life into SC2 I guess, but I'm not expecting any MU to be any easier as Zerg (I've given up on that quite a while ago actually ^^').
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On April 26 2011 13:30 Teivospy wrote:
2/2/0 archon + chargelot in PvT = how will terran ever overcome
seriously why get storm when archons will just flat out kill and tank everything
edit - also stalker + zealot poke comes like 10 seconds earlier?
Yeah...until all your clumped archon mass gets hit by 3 emps from 2 ghosts, so 400/200 will decimate like 6 archons that cost 600/1800 and its still way more viable to tech switch into ghosts then archons at pretty much any point in PvT ever....even as an opening.
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On April 26 2011 13:27 gulati wrote:
First of all, THANK YOU BLIZZARD! The Zerg buff to change root timing from 12 seconds to 6 seconds was the best decision you have made since nerfing repear build time, and forcing a supply depot before rax, to prevent BBS. This will ABSOLUTELY nullify any and all chances of 4gates killing you, provided they are scouted. So, so, so, happy, omg.
its only for spores...not spines
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Force zealots to have their old build time until a cybernetics core is up, then have their build time decreased to the new times. That way you can't 2-gate proxy easily, but can be defensive with normal play.
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is it me or the pylon change is like the worst change in protoss history?
It changes everything for toss...3gate expand vs both terran and zerg will be badly nerfed...
sure 4 gate wont be as strong but the warg gate research time already does the trick...
and the WORST part...toss wont be able to defend 6 pool with the regular 9pylon 12 gate (see early pool), add forge and gate with 1 pylon 3building to defend + 1 canon...now, protoss will just need to 10 gate everygame vs zerg or to forge first...6pool will destroy protoss....
coming from a 3500 master toss...
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seems like these arent in affect for ptr because i logged in and everything was the same.
Anyway hopefully the pylon thing fixes delta quadrant
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The hallucinated Archon is not massive. Not that is matters, but the hallucinated Colossus is.
I am very happy about the bunker not being a full refund. I love Artosis wondering what the lore is for the refund.
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Blizzard seems to have forgotten why they nerfed Zealot build time in the first place. Better micro from top players and larger maps will probably make 2 gates and proxy gates holdable, but for people on the lower end of Blizzard's ladder, playing on maps with close spawn positions, it's going to be rough.
As far as stopping 4 gate in PvP goes, though, this patch will definitely help. You can now go robo expecting to get an immortal out before the opponent can start exploiting his warp-ins, and even gateway unit only builds should put you in decent shape.
Here's a thought though: 3 gate blink may become the new 4 gate. More early stalkers from gateways, fast blink research, push right as the first round of warp-ins happen. 3 gate blink is very strong against any kind of robo build, and now that it no longer has 4 gate to worry about... Yeah.
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As a protoss player these patchnotes make me smile like crazy :D pvp has been so awful, prevent 4 gate from becoming the dominant pvp build and a lot of other options are possible.
the only thing that scares me is that with the later 4 gate, zerg will happily drone up all early game if they know toss cant rush them at all :/ and my pvz is pretty awful
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On April 26 2011 13:35 kickinhead wrote:
Archon-Buff is massive (yeah - word-play!) in PvZ, cuz more and more Zergs started playing Ling+Baneling-Drops+Infestors and Archons were already very good against this style, now, with no Fungal Snare on Archons, they are gonna be insane.
Pardon me, but how does Archons have no Fungal Ensnare, if looking at Liquipedia I see in no way does Fungal growth not affect Archons previously, and considering the fact that Collousus are affected by Fungal growth it has nothing to do with being Massive, thus I think your wrong.
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On April 26 2011 13:35 Inori wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 13:32 Devolved wrote:
Can someone explain how making Archons massive is going to affect gameplay in the different matchups? more viable in pvt against bio since they can now actually walk up to marauder ball. some utility in pvp with ff breaking.
I think the biggest change will be in PvP, it might be viable to actually get archons now if you think about the sheer health archons and FF breaking they have along with their splash to kill zealots infront of collosus and their ability to hit voidrays/pheonix they are actually a superb support unit and might even be used in some timing builds due to all this.
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can you still warp units into the back expo from the natural on Delta? Cause that was my favorite build on that map.
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On April 26 2011 13:37 Azarkon wrote:
Blizzard seems to have forgotten why they nerfed Zealot build time in the first place. Better micro from top players and larger maps will probably make 2 gates and proxy gates holdable, but for people on the lower end of Blizzard's ladder, playing on maps with close spawn positions, it's going to be rough times.
As far as stopping 4 gate in PvP goes, though, this patch will definitely help. You can now go robo expecting to get an immortal out before the opponent can start exploiting his warp-ins, and even gateway unit only builds should put you in decent shape.
Here's a thought though: 3 gate blink may become the new 4 gate. More early stalkers from gateways, fast blink research, push right as the first round of warp-ins happen. 3 gate blink is very strong against any kind of robo build, and now that it no longer has 4 gate to worry about... Yeah.
I agree. In all honesty, it seems as though with Warpgate mechanic along with Blink, PvP in SC2 is fated to become what ZvZ was in BW. A fast paced, short micro war that will be more or less rock paper scissors in terms of build orders.
In all honesty, I think Blizzard should just embrace that and not worry too much about trying to "change" PvP lest they end up fucking up Protoss matchups too much.
That said, I think this is the first patch since beta where I actually agree/aren't completely wtf'd by the changes. The only thing I'm a little worried about is the warpgate research time nerf, but that could be okay considering the gateway buffs.
There still won't be much of a choice between using gateways and warpgates because the two buildings have identical build times for units and warpgates provide much more utility.
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Why does do people keep mention armor upgrades in relation to Archons? Armor upgrades do not help Archons really at all, that's what shield upgrades are for. Massive is cool, I must admit.
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EPT
