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Patch 1.3.3 PTR - Page 31

Forum Index > SC2 General
4401 CommentsPost a Reply
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Massive units are not affected by concussive shells. If you think they are, you are wrong.
It's SPORE crawlers that are being changed, not SPINE. Please read carefully.
Griffith`
Profile Joined September 2010
714 Posts
April 26 2011 04:25 GMT
#601
On April 26 2011 13:25 BluePanther wrote:
this makes the 10/10gate opening all that much stronger....


yeah... 10 gate is ABSURDLY strong if you dont scout after depot
griffith.583 (NA)
babyToSS
Profile Joined December 2009
233 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-26 04:28:55
April 26 2011 04:26 GMT
#602
On April 26 2011 13:23 Griffith` wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 26 2011 13:19 babyToSS wrote:
On April 26 2011 13:16 Griffith` wrote:
Sorry to say, but Ghosts still have ZERO relevance in TvZ. I'd rather have a tank over a ghost any day.


Agreed. Good tank positioning is still way better than ghosts in TvZ. Its a vision war and creep owns everything terran has. If anything, this patch buffs mech play in TvP.


Yep. One of the biggest dangers to siege expand was actually 4gate. 40 second+ research times makes siege expand WAAAY safer. Normal 4gate hits at 6:30, now it will come at 7:00+, when I'll usually have at least 2 tanks.


Also lower gas cost makes ghost+mech waaay more viable. This negates the immortal, a key roadblock in TvP mech.

Edit: As someone who loves BW TvP and loathes the bio play in the current SC2 TvP. Seriously, bio seems so fragile against mid to late game toss. I am loving this patch. Now, if blizz just lowered tanks to 2 supply (sigh, wishful thinking indeed).
babyToSS here! Can u go easy on me plzzz?
pyaar
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States423 Posts
April 26 2011 04:26 GMT
#603
Great changes (I'm a Terran). Gateway build times are a bit worrisome in the early game but I'm glad that they aren't shoving warp gates down everyone's throats anymore. (Some people had been asking for some time for a way to keep macroing in the middle of a battle without going back to look at a pylon.)

Ghost cost change is amazing. Glad that we'll get more gas freed up for other tech. I don't think anyone can legitimately be upset about the salvage nerf; it was ridiculous. Spore crawler change should help a lot with zerg's air problems early on. Archon buff is essential.

These changes are probably the products of the sweat, blood and tears of SC2's dev team. I'm glad to see that they're putting serious thought into their changes.
ABXG
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada16 Posts
April 26 2011 04:27 GMT
#604
On April 26 2011 12:36 OMG.The.AvataR wrote:
What does making archon a massive unit do?


Massive units gain the following benefits over normal units:
* Can break Forcefields
* Immune to Concussive Shells
* Immune to Graviton Beam


Regarding the patch changes:
* The Pylon / Warpgate / Gateway buff is going to help the PvP early game a lot. Four Gate builds are going to become a lot weaker in general, although this is going to change PvP the most. An extra 40 seconds to prepare for a Four Gate is going to open up so many new builds against Protoss players. It will be nice to see those "lol i 4gate" Protoss players get knocked down a peg.

* The only thing the Bunker nerf changes is defensive Bunkers really. The offensive Bunker was nerfed hard enough with all the build time nerfs. I say this because whenever you go into an Offensive Bunker push you are going to be prepared to lose some resources. It is the Defensive Bunker where you really hope you don't lose them so that you can defend against aggression without having to sacrifice too many minerals. I really kind of feel like players who can't hold off the current Offensive Bunker really do deserve the loss.

* The Ghost buff is nice. Terran is already extremely gas intensive once you move into T2 units, especially against Zerg. I feel that this change was intended to make it easier to support Ghosts versus Infestors (especially with the EMP bug fix). As it stands you really can't afford Siege Tanks and Ghosts while still having gas for other important things like upgrades.

* The Zerg change will help with early air pressure, it would be nice see the Spore Crawler buff applied to Spine Crawlers as well.
yarkO
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
Canada810 Posts
April 26 2011 04:27 GMT
#605
I think if these go live, the final change to make PvP actually divert away from Colossus wars would be to make Psi Storm do like 50% bonus damage to Shields. Maybe 50% is too much, but a number that makes Storm a viable alternative to Colossus. This would also make it a PvP only change.

I hope they test this idea out some day lol...
When you are prepared, there's no such thing as pressure.
gulati
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
United States2241 Posts
April 26 2011 04:27 GMT
#606
First of all, THANK YOU BLIZZARD! The Zerg buff to change root timing from 12 seconds to 6 seconds was the best decision you have made since nerfing repear build time, and forcing a supply depot before rax, to prevent BBS. This will ABSOLUTELY nullify any and all chances of 4gates killing you, provided they are scouted. So, so, so, happy, omg.

The Protoss changes impact PvP and 4gate. Increasing 4gate research time is such a better idea, since that will lead to more macro occurring in games, instead of Rofl4gate (feel free to hate, but you know it's true that 4gate is one of the most popular strategies, and by far the most brain-dead). Also, the gateway unit build times being reduced should primarily only impact PvP (I don't see how they will impact anything else, but maybe I am wrong.). I would lovelovelove to see 4warp vs 4gate + cyber in the future. Pretty sure the 4gate + cyber will prevail, thus making the metagame shift 100% from 4gate nonstop (reasong being that APM at the non-pro level will not optimally refresh cooldowns on all gateways, leading to the extra few seconds spent manually building units instead of warping them in optimal, since it nullifies human error). I will, however, symphathize with the range reduction. I think it's primarily to fend off early cannon rushing, which i personally think is utter bullshit, but since I am not a P, I don't know what else that would change other than cannon rushing and proxy pylons having to be placed closer in order to 4gate (which, as stated above, probably won't be occurring nearly as much as it does right now).

And the T... "nerfs", if you want to call them that... I believe the salvage value isn't that big of a deal, but maybe I am wrong. 100% was just silly, and you know it. As far as Ghosts, that's a buff IMO. MULEing will always give you more minerals, meaning that you can save on the gas, since T typically can float minerals because of MULEing.

-----

Either way, VERY happy. These changes were so mandatory, I couldn't wait. The P definitely got nerfed the most, but your 'power' units (VR/Pheonix/Colo) which directly rape us Z remained unchanged, so it'll be fun to fiiiiiinaly experience macro games without 4gate and cannon rushing :-)

<3333 ~~
C r u m b l i n g
Jayrod
Profile Joined August 2010
1820 Posts
April 26 2011 04:28 GMT
#607
On April 26 2011 13:24 Cabinet Sanchez wrote:
As a Protoss player but more of a GSL, TSL watcher more than anything, I'd still like to see more Zerg buffs. I feel sorry for anyone playing that race.

If you feel sorry for zerg you dont play this game and you probably read the forums too much. Im just glad blizzard has some sense in game design because if this was left up to the players 99% of them would fuck it up.
b0urne420
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada112 Posts
April 26 2011 04:28 GMT
#608
On April 26 2011 13:05 ishyishy wrote:
First of all archons arent used and never will be. Second of all, get off pvp....cant you see this nerf is going to completely change how this entire race is played vs zerg and terran as well? Less units, thats all it means. Wow great I will have a whole ONE more early stalker to defend those 1 marine 2 marader pushes that I...wasnt even having trouble with...before.

Instead of just killing terran before they get their little cloak banshee nonsense, now I will have to just sit on my *** with observers and stalkers in my base and never be able to attack because they will have seige mode by then. As I said before this change will not happen. If it does, I see a LOT of people changing races away from protoss..

Are people seriously still crying about 4 gate strat? Learn to beat it like everyone else or uninstall the game. It's part of the race. Zerg and terran have their cheese 1 base rushes and now protoss's cheese 1 base rush is slower? Makes a whole lot of sense....I dont see this warp gate timing change staying in effect for very long (if it even makes it to the real server).


lol, most people who complain about 4gate are protoss. its because 4gate is pretty much the only strat you can use in pvp, and it gets old fast.

i would say the new warp gate time increase may actually be beneficial to protoss early game. wtf are you talking about, an extra stalker or zealot is a huge deal vs the early marauder pokes. how would warpgate time even make a difference with those marauder pokes anyway? they hit before its done.

everyones gonna switch out of protoss now? give me a break, these changes can be seen as a buff. you need to stop crying, because toss is already widely known as the most powerful race atm, no ones gonna switch out over this
Jarmam
Profile Joined June 2010
Denmark140 Posts
April 26 2011 04:28 GMT
#609
Yes Yes YES YES YES YES YES YES YES

YES

YES YES YES YES!

ARCHONS ARE MASSIVE!

GATEWAY/WARPGATE/PYLON RELATION MAKES SENSE!

BUNKERS COST MONEY! (Even if only a little)

I cant find a single flaw in this entire patch. It has never happened before. I originally thought it was a jokepost of excellent ideas - but the link. Hope! HOPE!
"Freedom for Colossus" - White-Ra
ehalf
Profile Joined September 2010
408 Posts
April 26 2011 04:28 GMT
#610
On April 26 2011 13:22 Iracor wrote:
This is what I've learned from Blizzard:

-Protoss balance is centered around the zealot build time.

-Terran balance is entirely centered around the bunker.


absolutely correct
Jayrod
Profile Joined August 2010
1820 Posts
April 26 2011 04:29 GMT
#611
On April 26 2011 13:25 Griffith` wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 26 2011 13:25 BluePanther wrote:
this makes the 10/10gate opening all that much stronger....


yeah... 10 gate is ABSURDLY strong if you dont scout after depot

So scout after depot... and zergs should probably pool first all the time again.
Arolis
Profile Joined October 2010
United States496 Posts
April 26 2011 04:29 GMT
#612
These Protoss changes can potentially change the early game entirely. Very interested to see how strong 2 gate expands will be after the patch. Also if a zerg steals protoss second gas how that will affect the game. Maybe Forge fast expands will be stronger since gateway units can come out faster and not just zealots. I'm interested in how a DT opening might work in PvT with the archon change. All in all some pretty cool changes, but I'll probably lose quite a few ladder games messing around with dumb openings until I steal some good ones from the pros.
DarkRise
Profile Joined November 2010
1644 Posts
April 26 2011 04:29 GMT
#613
Free bunker was stupid to begin with, i didn't think that blizzard notice this just now.
I like the archon buff, its a useless unit but with this maybe templar tech will be viable
Cabinet Sanchez
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia1097 Posts
April 26 2011 04:29 GMT
#614
On April 26 2011 13:25 tomatriedes wrote:
Show nested quote +
Salvage resource return reduced from 100% to 75%.


This should have been:

Show nested quote +
Salvage resource return reduced from 100% to 0%
.

Bunkers are so good without salvage there is no reason at all for it to be in the game.


It's a start, at least Blizz acknowledged how stupid it was before and have begun addressing it.
Scabou
Profile Joined December 2010
Germany229 Posts
April 26 2011 04:30 GMT
#615
On April 26 2011 13:27 gulati wrote:
First of all, THANK YOU BLIZZARD! The Zerg buff to change root timing from 12 seconds to 6 seconds was the best decision you have made since nerfing repear build time, and forcing a supply depot before rax, to prevent BBS. This will ABSOLUTELY nullify any and all chances of 4gates killing you, provided they are scouted. So, so, so, happy, omg.


Its spore crawler only
askTeivospy
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
1525 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-26 04:32:08
April 26 2011 04:30 GMT
#616
2/2/0 archon + chargelot in PvT = how will terran ever overcome

seriously why get storm when archons will just flat out kill and tank everything

edit - also stalker + zealot poke comes like 10 seconds earlier?
hihihi
babyToSS
Profile Joined December 2009
233 Posts
April 26 2011 04:30 GMT
#617
On April 26 2011 13:26 petergibbons wrote:
Great changes (I'm a Terran). Gateway build times are a bit worrisome in the early game but I'm glad that they aren't shoving warp gates down everyone's throats anymore. (Some people had been asking for some time for a way to keep macroing in the middle of a battle without going back to look at a pylon.)

Ghost cost change is amazing. Glad that we'll get more gas freed up for other tech. I don't think anyone can legitimately be upset about the salvage nerf; it was ridiculous. Spore crawler change should help a lot with zerg's air problems early on. Archon buff is essential.

These changes are probably the products of the sweat, blood and tears of SC2's dev team. I'm glad to see that they're putting serious thought into their changes.


Gateway change is a big positive. With gateways there will actually be a defender's advantage where toss' reinforcements will have to walk across the map or he/she will have to wait for the late wp push.
babyToSS here! Can u go easy on me plzzz?
Khalleb
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Canada1909 Posts
April 26 2011 04:31 GMT
#618
On April 26 2011 13:29 Jayrod wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 26 2011 13:25 Griffith` wrote:
On April 26 2011 13:25 BluePanther wrote:
this makes the 10/10gate opening all that much stronger....


yeah... 10 gate is ABSURDLY strong if you dont scout after depot

So scout after depot... and zergs should probably pool first all the time again.

you guys talk like steps is still in teh map pool -_-, i cant see the 2 gate being THAT strong on taldarim altar
Liquid'Nony: "I only needed one probe to take down idra. I had to upgrade to a zealot for strelok."
BluePanther
Profile Joined March 2011
United States2776 Posts
April 26 2011 04:32 GMT
#619
On April 26 2011 13:25 Griffith` wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 26 2011 13:25 BluePanther wrote:
this makes the 10/10gate opening all that much stronger....


yeah... 10 gate is ABSURDLY strong if you dont scout after depot


except that no terran should ever lose to a 10/10, i was referring to PvP.
Devolved
Profile Joined April 2008
United States2753 Posts
April 26 2011 04:32 GMT
#620
Can someone explain how making Archons massive is going to affect gameplay in the different matchups?
$♥$
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