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Massive units are not affected by concussive shells. If you think they are, you are wrong.
It's SPORE crawlers that are being changed, not SPINE. Please read carefully. |
On May 06 2011 06:31 Mehukannu wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 05:44 Juanald wrote:On May 06 2011 05:09 Mehukannu wrote:On May 06 2011 04:50 Juanald wrote:
i cant beleive you guys are complaning about ghost cloak i think cloak should acually drain energy faster so its not posible to cloak EMP my army.. we dont have scans too spot them and it will get out of hand peace
Totally right, we should never be forced to build detectors... dude are you serious? I mean, it is not that hard to build couple of detectors to spot cloaked ghost. You should probably learn to look after your units while doing that insane micro/macro stuff to make sure they won't EMP your army ever again!  accept for the fact you cant have a detecter everywhere and observers arent exactly cheap Why would you need to have detectors everywhere? Last time checked EMP had 10 range, not infinite. If you are really having that much trouble with them I would urge you to change your race to terran, but I don't think you will be doing that, now are you? So, have you ever considered having a observer following those ghosts that seem to give you so much hard time, that you have to make a comment about them in PTR patch thread. :O Also observers are actually really cheap and faster to produce compared to other races mobile detectors, but I guess protoss is quite gas heavy already, but if that is what it takes to not to lose, you should make them. 
Infinite Range EMP, it makes me drool
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On May 06 2011 06:51 Rokk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 05:44 Juanald wrote:On May 06 2011 05:09 Mehukannu wrote:On May 06 2011 04:50 Juanald wrote:
i cant beleive you guys are complaning about ghost cloak i think cloak should acually drain energy faster so its not posible to cloak EMP my army.. we dont have scans too spot them and it will get out of hand peace
Totally right, we should never be forced to build detectors... dude are you serious? I mean, it is not that hard to build couple of detectors to spot cloaked ghost. You should probably learn to look after your units while doing that insane micro/macro stuff to make sure they won't EMP your army ever again! accept for the fact you cant have a detecter everywhere and observers arent exactly cheap A single observer is 25/75. That's pretty cheap for a flying, cloaked detector.
u haveto remember that ties up or collosos prodution which we need to stay alive.
On May 06 2011 06:31 Mehukannu wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 05:44 Juanald wrote:On May 06 2011 05:09 Mehukannu wrote:On May 06 2011 04:50 Juanald wrote:
i cant beleive you guys are complaning about ghost cloak i think cloak should acually drain energy faster so its not posible to cloak EMP my army.. we dont have scans too spot them and it will get out of hand peace
Totally right, we should never be forced to build detectors... dude are you serious? I mean, it is not that hard to build couple of detectors to spot cloaked ghost. You should probably learn to look after your units while doing that insane micro/macro stuff to make sure they won't EMP your army ever again! accept for the fact you cant have a detecter everywhere and observers arent exactly cheap Why would you need to have detectors everywhere? Last time checked EMP had 10 range, not infinite. If you are really having that much trouble with them I would urge you to change your race to terran, but I don't think you will be doing that, now are you? So, have you ever considered having a observer following those ghosts that seem to give you so much hard time, that you have to make a comment about them in PTR patch thread. :O Also observers are actually really cheap and faster to produce compared to other races mobile detectors, but I guess protoss is quite gas heavy already, but if that is what it takes to not to lose, you should make them.
im just trying to put it into prespective that the balance is fine theres a reason ghost have to choose cloak OR emp.. we shouldnt be wining blizz knows wut their doing sory if i came off wrong way peace LOL
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Well the patch changed from being a buff to protoss to being a total nerf.
Shortening gateway times allow protoss to FE with gates and also allows protoss to put on early pressure. With this change, protoss can defend a ramp better and that's it. It can still barely put on any early pressure and now FE builds like 16nex, 1gate expo, even 2gate robo and 3gate expo are even harder to expand with, making it harder to deal with zerg/terran early all-ins (roach/speedling, early stim, concussive shell timing, etc etc).
Edit: my point is that protoss is always most vulnerable in the early game. I don't see how buffing protoss mid/late-game will balance out nerfing protoss early game even more -_-
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So it should be easy to put up an expansion and thwart an all-in???????????????????
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People seem to be forgetting 250MM Cannons 1-shot Immortals which is my theory of the nerf, I agree with the nerf also even being a Terran player.
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On May 06 2011 07:02 Mackus wrote:
People seem to be forgetting 250MM Cannons 1-shot Immortals which is my theory of the nerf, I agree with the nerf also even being a Terran player.
That and they take away huge immo dps that toss relies on to have a chance at dealing with thor pushes
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On May 06 2011 07:02 Mackus wrote:
People seem to be forgetting 250MM Cannons 1-shot Immortals which is my theory of the nerf, I agree with the nerf also even being a Terran player.
Then what's the point of cannons lol?!?!?
That's what I'm saying. If it's not meant to do this to immortals or anything related, then just remove it from the game and don't make us Templar fodder.
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On May 06 2011 07:14 DooMDash wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 07:02 Mackus wrote:
People seem to be forgetting 250MM Cannons 1-shot Immortals which is my theory of the nerf, I agree with the nerf also even being a Terran player. Then what's the point of cannons lol?!?!? That's what I'm saying. If it's not meant to do this to immortals or anything related, then just remove it from the game and don't make us Templar fodder.
3 strike cannons snipe hatcherys
4 will snipe nexus....
you could use it as a high damage strike force
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Infestor nerf!?!? Whaaa~aaaat, theyre going to be sitting ducks to Ghost EMP's now that they're almost as cheap as marines to make.
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United States5162 Posts
On May 06 2011 07:14 DooMDash wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 07:02 Mackus wrote:
People seem to be forgetting 250MM Cannons 1-shot Immortals which is my theory of the nerf, I agree with the nerf also even being a Terran player. Then what's the point of cannons lol?!?!? That's what I'm saying. If it's not meant to do this to immortals or anything related, then just remove it from the game and don't make us Templar fodder.
The point of strike cannons was not be to a 100% hard counter to their supposed hard counter. Right now there is no way to prevent a thor from using strike cannons. With the change it will require skilful play for T to use ghosts to neutralize HT and vice versa. If the P is better with feedback then T is with EMP then the immortals will be able to counter high dps armored units as designed, if not then T overcomes it through skill and not a I-win button.
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i think the new modified PTR, mainly because the sntry time was decreased and not the stalker or zealot, which is a brilliant move by blizzard in my opinion, i would kinda like the WG time to be 180 still but 160 is ok with me. I think infestors needed a small nerf and the movement speec i think did the trick.
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On May 06 2011 07:14 DooMDash wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 07:02 Mackus wrote:
People seem to be forgetting 250MM Cannons 1-shot Immortals which is my theory of the nerf, I agree with the nerf also even being a Terran player. Then what's the point of cannons lol?!?!? That's what I'm saying. If it's not meant to do this to immortals or anything related, then just remove it from the game and don't make us Templar fodder.
To stun a unit and deal a lot of dmg? It's really stupid that the seperate ticks aren't reduced by hardened shield anyway. I like this change
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On May 06 2011 07:19 SuperYo1000 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 07:14 DooMDash wrote:On May 06 2011 07:02 Mackus wrote:
People seem to be forgetting 250MM Cannons 1-shot Immortals which is my theory of the nerf, I agree with the nerf also even being a Terran player. Then what's the point of cannons lol?!?!? That's what I'm saying. If it's not meant to do this to immortals or anything related, then just remove it from the game and don't make us Templar fodder. 3 strike cannons snipe hatcherys 4 will snipe nexus.... you could use it as a high damage strike force
Why would you do that when stimmed bio will do the job better/faster for less $$$?
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On May 06 2011 07:19 SuperYo1000 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 07:14 DooMDash wrote:On May 06 2011 07:02 Mackus wrote:
People seem to be forgetting 250MM Cannons 1-shot Immortals which is my theory of the nerf, I agree with the nerf also even being a Terran player. Then what's the point of cannons lol?!?!? That's what I'm saying. If it's not meant to do this to immortals or anything related, then just remove it from the game and don't make us Templar fodder. 3 strike cannons snipe hatcherys 4 will snipe nexus.... you could use it as a high damage strike force
The normal attack of the Thor does more damage than the ability.
It takes 2 seconds to deploy, 6 seconds to fire and 2 seconds to undeploy.
In that time, the normal attack the Thor has deals more damage than the actual ability.
So versus buildings the ability is entirely useless.
It has one and only one use, to ignore Hardened Shields.
But I'd rather just get a Ghost, that way the Thors can keep using their regular attack.
Won't apply for a Thor rush, but that is dead now anyway as it will ages to get 150 energy.
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On May 06 2011 07:02 Mackus wrote:
People seem to be forgetting 250MM Cannons 1-shot Immortals which is my theory of the nerf, I agree with the nerf also even being a Terran player.
That is sort of what the 250mm is for though...
Tell you a better solution though, remove the most situational ability in the game, completely. So that those that don't play mass Thor but still would like to use a few in late game, as (the only) anti air in a mech stile, don't get bitch slapped with what would essentially be a 300/200 6 food Goliath (200hp).
Yes, it's hard for Protoss to fight a mass Thor timing attack. In the entire 2 weeks that this stile became popular it's been hard for Protoss. Almost having to think of new builds and army compositions. I understand that there are already 2 races that have biiiig problems in understanding and fighting the Protoss "death ball" for over one year now so, this sort of thing has to be stopped as soon as possible from now on.
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EMP'd immortal still deals damage. Strike Cannoned Immortal does no damage
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On May 06 2011 07:25 Myles wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 07:14 DooMDash wrote:On May 06 2011 07:02 Mackus wrote:
People seem to be forgetting 250MM Cannons 1-shot Immortals which is my theory of the nerf, I agree with the nerf also even being a Terran player. Then what's the point of cannons lol?!?!? That's what I'm saying. If it's not meant to do this to immortals or anything related, then just remove it from the game and don't make us Templar fodder. The point of strike cannons was not be to a 100% hard counter to their supposed hard counter. Right now there is no way to prevent a thor from using strike cannons. With the change it will require skilful play for T to use ghosts to neutralize HT and vice versa. If the P is better with feedback then T is with EMP then the immortals will be able to counter high dps armored units as designed, if not then T overcomes it through skill and not a I-win button.
Yes because apparently 250mm cannon was abused at pro level because it was so good.
wait....
Eitherway it should be removed then.
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On May 06 2011 07:19 SuperYo1000 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 07:14 DooMDash wrote:On May 06 2011 07:02 Mackus wrote:
People seem to be forgetting 250MM Cannons 1-shot Immortals which is my theory of the nerf, I agree with the nerf also even being a Terran player. Then what's the point of cannons lol?!?!? That's what I'm saying. If it's not meant to do this to immortals or anything related, then just remove it from the game and don't make us Templar fodder. 3 strike cannons snipe hatcherys 4 will snipe nexus.... you could use it as a high damage strike force
You do know that Thor as much damage without Strike Cannons ? I could just autoattack with Thors and Archive the Same on Main Buildings. Heck i can even move my Thor while doing that something i can't when using strike Cannons.
There's no reason to keep the ability if its costs 150 Energy and they don't change it . It not good enough to warrant the cost.
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I really like the patch changes. The buff to Archons means that getting and massing ghosts will be more important which is enhanced by the ghost buff. More tech options will be viable for Terran now in that mid/late game because ghosts will be competing for less gas. Templar did just suffer a massive nerf in the last patch, is it really so crazy that they get buffed in other ways?
I worry more about the Archon buff because of the ZvP match up. Zerg does have less early pressure potential put on them from protoss, so that evens it out some. The potential for infestors drops a little with the new change, but they will be easier to micro now. I think infestor micro is an art that hasn't really been mastered yet.
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On May 06 2011 03:01 space_yes wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 02:48 randplaty wrote:On May 06 2011 01:43 s3rp wrote:On May 06 2011 01:35 randplaty wrote:
Strike cannon is still usable. HTs didn't even come onto the field until late late game in TvP even with the amulet. Without amulet, HTs were almost non-existent. Protoss typically went Robo->Robo Bay->Council -> Templar tech. Thors with strike cannon can be on the field much earlier than HT.
With the Thors havng to regenrate 100 Energy to use the Ability probably not , a bit ealier maybe theres a small window but after that you can just stop building Thors at all. Thorzain vs Tyler and MC... Everytime Thorzain used thors he either used strike cannon really late in the game.. or he didn't even really use them at all. Thorzain strike cannoned Collossus in a pro match against Tyler, so even though collossus outrange Thors, I don't think its that easy to kite Thors with Collossus. Thorzain didn't even really use strike cannons against MC. MC went templar tech because he knew robotech wouldn't work against Thors. But MC got owned just as bad. There is 0 counter to Thors. Voidrays work when the army sizes are small, but not in larger numbers. Pre patch: Thormech > robo tech Thormech > templar tech Thormech > stargate tech Post patch: Thormech > robo tech Thormech > HT tech Thormech > stargate tech Thormech < HT + robo What's wrong with that? Silver protoss here and I agree 100%. Furthermore I don't understand why terran buildings don't have energy. Liftoff should cost mana IMO so I can have a counter to liftoff. Also, EMP is OP and should require the terran player to hit a 6-key alphanumeric key combination to execute. I think hellions are too powerful vs zealots. Possibly what blizz needs to do is make hellions cost some gas that way the terran cant mass them so easily. Finally colossus need an air attack. Colossus cost so much gas but can't defend themselves verse vikings.
Very nice haha ...
What do people think about going for battlecruisers rather than thors in tvp post patch? Whether intentional or not, I think the energy change really kills thors in this MU, could battlecruisers serve as a better late game unit than thors?
While their damage on the ground probably isn't as good, they won't be hard countered by immortals and toss will likely have to go heavy on stalkers to take them down efficiently. Yamato cannon has a very long range which could be nice for sniping key units before a large engagement, along with the added benefit that BC's are now faster and won't make the engagement as much of a clusterfuck on the ground. Beyond that, I don't think it would be as much of an investment to go BC since you will likely have a couple starports down by end game already and possibly you may have already upgraded air for your vikings once or twice.
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EPT
