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de1irium
United States121 Posts
It's easy to say IGN's production is just glitter, but having a stream that's easy to watch and listen to is pretty key. If IGN gets caster duos and better matches, it will be a force for sure. The production is there, they just need to flesh the rest of it out. But I still think TSL does it best. Polished but not flashy, great matches, great casters, good stream. Boom. | ||
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TotalBiscuit
United Kingdom5437 Posts
On April 22 2011 12:51 sermokala wrote: my views arn't set in stone if you saw any of the threads I was completely jacked for IPL and I was loving the stream every moment until TB came on. "tiny minority"? did you even look at the viewer counts for tonight? NASL was 5k less then IPL at the start but at the end it was less then 1k away from each other. Even day9 said that he enjoyed his trolls and hes a god among us whats wrong with you? I'm saying my opinion you don't have to attack me because of that. I'm not attacking you, I'm not entirely sure why you're taking offence. Your opinion is not immune from criticism, nor is anyone elses. | ||
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iruehl
United States31 Posts
NASL need to step it up or they will lose more viewer to IPL and GSL. | ||
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Triscuit
United States722 Posts
I had both streams running simultaneously but was mostly listening to the audio for the NASL. I'm not going to bash casters, because casters tend to be an acquired taste (especially if you've been spoiled by Tastosis for months) but I favored the NASL casters over the IPL. I think Wheat is a fantastic caster but he is best paired with a Day9 or a Chill. You have to have a caster with the analysis hat on and a caster with the play-by-play hat on. It's just the best balance and provides the best experience for the listeners. Keep it up though IPL, only bigger and better things can come from this.  | ||
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zerglingsfolife
United States1694 Posts
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obsidia
122 Posts
possibly making casting combos could solve the issue, but again its a minor issue.... and might create a bigger problem with casters not being in synch with each others styles. Still max props to the IGN for 100% delivering what they promised. They have, as many people have previously stated set the bar for the production levels of tournements While I personally dont tune in to the NASL regularly, it doesnt mean we all need to start ripping on it because its had a questionable first week, all these tourneys are furthering SC2 as an e-sport, and just because one is initially more professional than the other, doesnt mean we need to tear into the NASL like a pack of hyenas, give them time and im sure they will try match the IPLs dedication to detail and smoothness. | ||
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darmousseh
United States3437 Posts
On April 22 2011 12:49 TotalBiscuit wrote: Not really. Some of you are alienated, but not all. The noisy few will always come out in opposition of play-by-play casting, but it's the silent majority that are more important. Every caster alienates somebody, it's not worth worrying about and in this case, the IPL was not aimed squarely at TL's demographic anyway, yet still managed to attract and SUSTAIN a significant viewer count from them, so that alone is proof the concept is worth pursuing. The negativity really is rather depressing if ya take it too seriously and it seems some people are more interesting in tearing down the efforts of others all in the name of 'true fandom'. A true fan would celebrate anything that moves eSports forward, I would think. I agree with total biscuit 100%, this kind of league put by IGN is the perfect way to introduce people to sc2 and it's entertaining to listen to. There are plenty of videos with game commentary as opposed to casting, but a tournament is supposed to be about hype and excitement. We can analyze the games later. Watch the MLB, during the season the commentators discuss the game, but the cast always needs someone to bring excitement. Once the world series hits, most of the commentating goes away and it's pure casting because people want to watch something exciting. The majority of people watching are not hardcore players, just ask day9. Good job total biscuit | ||
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relyt
United States1073 Posts
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DrivE
United States2554 Posts
On April 22 2011 12:55 zerglingsfolife wrote: Well, I will say that being spoiled of the results before the tournament even starts sucks. Especially when it's on twitter of all places ><. Hope that doesn't happen for the next tournament. I'm sure it wont happen again. I thought the stream was great, but they should put a few intermissions because the pacing was sort of fast. | ||
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pycho
Paraguay372 Posts
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Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
On April 22 2011 12:53 TotalBiscuit wrote: I'm not attacking you, I'm not entirely sure why you're taking offence. Your opinion is not immune from criticism, nor is anyone elses. TB don't waste your breath on haters. can't please everyone but you sure do please MOST everyone. | ||
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Sermokala
United States14162 Posts
On April 22 2011 12:53 TotalBiscuit wrote: I'm not attacking you, I'm not entirely sure why you're taking offence. Your opinion is not immune from criticism, nor is anyone elses. you called me out for saying some critiism's about the stream while everyones been blindly loveing it and said and I quote "I love these so called 'true fans' of eSports taking a dump on everything they possibly can while contributing nothing of their own to the scene they supposedly live and breath. Thank God they are only a tiny vocal minority or eSports would be in real trouble." I shouldn't take offence to that? (btw just clarifying are you the real tb or just a person with his account name? would feel very bad if I insulted TB himself as I do respect him for having such success as hes had) | ||
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Zeri
United States773 Posts
On April 22 2011 12:49 TotalBiscuit wrote: Not really. Some of you are alienated, but not all. The noisy few will always come out in opposition of play-by-play casting, but it's the silent majority that are more important. Every caster alienates somebody, it's not worth worrying about and in this case, the IPL was not aimed squarely at TL's demographic anyway, yet still managed to attract and SUSTAIN a significant viewer count from them, so that alone is proof the concept is worth pursuing. The negativity really is rather depressing if ya take it too seriously and it seems some people are more interesting in tearing down the efforts of others all in the name of 'true fandom'. A true fan would celebrate anything that moves eSports forward, I would think. The 'silent majority' argument in anything is rather silly. Theres plenty of silent people on either side of this argument. I wouldn't be so quick to just say 'im not worried about alienating hardcore fanbase' in this situation. I think the people here are saying that you can have the casual viewer ship like you do on youtube and STILL maintain the 'hardcore' fan base. Just look at day9. He is so respected and highly thought of in the 'hardcore' fan base yet he brought in SO many new people on his own. a TON! I really think you are going about it slightly wrong by targeting the uneducated audience. Simply because you CAN cater to the hardcore fan base and still bring in new blood if you do it right. but if you simply cater to the new fan base and try to retain hardcore viewers you really don't do justice to the players and the prestige of the game itself. Just my 2 cents TB, I'm not a hater... =P | ||
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Bijan
United States286 Posts
On April 22 2011 12:42 sermokala wrote: but all of NASL's problems are technical all of IPL's are fundamental. more then one caster? gretorp getting better every night inc is a legit player thats actually playing well in the league. Diggity coming in and doing well. and kalador who is a very very good. TB is a horrid caster that got on my nerves in a single game. Yesterday I watched 3 games of Sheth vs rainbow godlike 40+ games in each one. They where better then anything that IPL had today. poorly done 4 gate rush after poorly done 4 gate rush does not a good stream make. and if tomarrow somehow they fix the stream and it isn't total shit whos a lot better? hell even MLG's going to have a great stream next event. the gloss is going to come off the IPL and people are gona start seeing that. It looks fucking amazing but that can only go so far While I don't see a reason to be impressed by the IPLs production quality, I don't see how you can't see this league as a great thing. Honestly, the production quality of the IPL is almost the minimum requirement for a high-level tournament or league stream. If online communities can put on a show of that quality, a professional organization has no excuse not to. The IPL can learn from certain points of the NASL, having multiple casters would be a great start, but there is no reason not to expect improvement. Who knows how IGN is going to expand upon this first season, what changes they will make? all we know is that if people like the production they put on now, they'll get a lot more money in the future. In this case, production value is more important in the long run. We need to know that these guys can make games look good and can attract the casual fans. As much as "true fans" have driven this sport forward, it will be successful off the back of the casual fan. In the end, if the IPL draws more money, they will get better players and we will see matches comparable to the NASL lineup. | ||
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Sermokala
United States14162 Posts
On April 22 2011 12:56 darmousseh wrote: I agree with total biscuit 100%, this kind of league put by IGN is the perfect way to introduce people to sc2 and it's entertaining to listen to. There are plenty of videos with game commentary as opposed to casting, but a tournament is supposed to be about hype and excitement. We can analyze the games later. Watch the MLB, during the season the commentators discuss the game, but the cast always needs someone to bring excitement. Once the world series hits, most of the commentating goes away and it's pure casting because people want to watch something exciting. The majority of people watching are not hardcore players, just ask day9. Good job total biscuit mmmnmmmnmm I'm getting this werid feeling like we're getting into the same debate of husky vs day9 which really makes me :/ because I like husky and I feel like I'm going against him. | ||
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OrderlyChaos
United States1115 Posts
While the IPL's games tonight weren't the best, the casters really did a great job. The production level made everything else look good, which helped bolster the games. I mean, look at the NASL. The games have been better so far, but people don't rave about those because the first week's production was bad and the casters weren't nearly as exciting. I loved TB and Wheat's casting, and I look forward to seeing the IPL. | ||
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Kantutan
Canada1319 Posts
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Blast
26 Posts
I had three streams open tonight and I feel I can put them into three distinct categories. The first was the day9 daily, it was a fantastic thorough analysis of a game that Sheth played (of great interest to me as I am a zerg player) that talked about max army decision making. The second was the NASL, which, while being more focused on games, I still learn a lot during. I personally think Gretorp has amazing game knowledge and I feel I can learn a ton from his conversations with InControl about decisions the players are making. The third was obviously the IPL. This was fantastic because I could just sit back half pay attention and listen to DjWheat go crazy as Catz proxy hatches, or laugh hysterically as TB goes on a ridiculous tangent. My point is that in order to reap the full benefits of day9 (not counting mondays obviously) it requires a lot of focus from me, which sometimes isn't a real possibility after a long day of work. IPL on the other hand I'm not expecting to learn anything so it's something I would feel more comfortable just throwing on as I wind down for the night. NASL serves at somewhere in between. Obviously these my personal feelings but I just thought I'd ask if anyone else had similar opinions. Also, this doesn't take into account things like production quality, in which IPL is obviously way ahead. I feel like that's not that big of a deal though as NASL will eventually get it together. Then's there's the fact that some matches I'm just more generally interested in ( ZvX as opposed to PVP for example) and that can be a factor too. So, long story short, I think they can very easily coexist, as long as NASL steps up in the production quality department (like I expect them to). | ||
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Dommk
Australia4865 Posts
TB/DJ Wheat don't need to cast with the any in-depth analysis, hell, Khaldaor was casting in German during one of the Dreamhacks and stole like 60% of the viewers from the English stream. As long as the casters aren't trying to do something they aren't capable of doing, then people will enjoy it. In-depth analysis is a tricky thing, if you haven't been following/playing this game for a long time then don't bother trying, the worst things you can do in commentating is saying something that is blatantly wrong, when that happens people notice and it pulls them away from the game. As long NASL can fix up their video/sound issues + Gretorp/InControl get more experience with their casting, then the league will have a great future. People trying to pit one league against another aren't achieving anything. Enjoy both leagues. IPL has greater production due to much greater preparation before they air and NASL is an on going league with 50 of the best players in the world casting games that have only happened a day or two before with high level analysis. I guess I just watch these streams for the actual games rather than how amazing the casting is or pretty the graphics are, those always come second in my eyes (unless they are super awful, but neither IPL or NASL are doing anything terribly ) | ||
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
The only real advantage NASL has over IGN atm is NASL has better players overall. | ||
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