I do not see why people are arguing against the way someone is casting. I personally thought that it was great to include brief blurbs that target a more "uneducated audience." I do not see why that would turn "hardcore esports fans" away from IPL. IPL has AMAZING production value and is not targeted towards the most "hardcore, professional" players in the world as TB stated.
Not every league with over $50 in prizes has to be 100% catered to hardcore players, get over it. TB did a absolutely phenomenal job, as well as Wheat, in being able to bridge the knowledge gap into bringing more potential players and viewers into the scene and if that causes people to stop watching IPL, so be it. People need to lighten up. Hardcore players mainly watch the games, newcomers need advice and that is sometimes what casters can help with for 20 seconds per game.
Good work IPL, awesome casting TB and Wheat. Have not listened in on a lot of games casted by you yet TB and will definitely start tuning in more in the future.
I find this phrase really obnoxious. Am I alone in that?
it does seem a little obnoxious, but let's be honest here. i watched the first day of IPL and you casted like you were selling starcraft 2 to a bunch of console gamers. i don't have an issue with that because you're bringing a bunch of people into esports but at the same time alienating those of us that really love it enough to stay up till 4 am watching live GSL - the "true fans"
Not really. Some of you are alienated, but not all. The noisy few will always come out in opposition of play-by-play casting, but it's the silent majority that are more important. Every caster alienates somebody, it's not worth worrying about and in this case, the IPL was not aimed squarely at TL's demographic anyway, yet still managed to attract and SUSTAIN a significant viewer count from them, so that alone is proof the concept is worth pursuing.
The negativity really is rather depressing if ya take it too seriously and it seems some people are more interesting in tearing down the efforts of others all in the name of 'true fandom'. A true fan would celebrate anything that moves eSports forward, I would think.
I agree with total biscuit 100%, this kind of league put by IGN is the perfect way to introduce people to sc2 and it's entertaining to listen to. There are plenty of videos with game commentary as opposed to casting, but a tournament is supposed to be about hype and excitement. We can analyze the games later. Watch the MLB, during the season the commentators discuss the game, but the cast always needs someone to bring excitement. Once the world series hits, most of the commentating goes away and it's pure casting because people want to watch something exciting. The majority of people watching are not hardcore players, just ask day9. Good job total biscuit
mmmnmmmnmm I'm getting this werid feeling like we're getting into the same debate of husky vs day9 which really makes me :/ because I like husky and I feel like I'm going against him.
just like the day9 vs husky debate, you can still be in both camps. everyone will however find a preference for one or the either.
IPL is seemingly being presented merely as training wheels for real SC2. zero analysis, no player thoughts after games, just lots of 'violence' and graphical fluff with very little focus on strategy or tactics. IGN is clearly focusing on a different demographic that will hopefully funnel a ton of people into the scene the same way husky did. strictly judging after today, i would rather watch NASL for the most part.
On April 22 2011 12:07 Highways wrote: I completely agree, unbelievable production values.
IPL and NASL need to merge because the NASL production is sooo terrible.
How can NASL improve the IPL?
good players good casters good matches?
players granted, but the rest is to debate. I really hope NASL did watch with pen and paper in hand what IGN delivered today and start going to improve their stuff. There needs to be competition, and right now IPL just walks over NASL.
but all of NASL's problems are technical all of IPL's are fundamental.
more then one caster? gretorp getting better every night inc is a legit player thats actually playing well in the league. Diggity coming in and doing well. and kalador who is a very very good. TB is a horrid caster that got on my nerves in a single game.
Yesterday I watched 3 games of Sheth vs rainbow godlike 40+ games in each one. They where better then anything that IPL had today. poorly done 4 gate rush after poorly done 4 gate rush does not a good stream make.
and if tomarrow somehow they fix the stream and it isn't total shit whos a lot better? hell even MLG's going to have a great stream next event.
the gloss is going to come off the IPL and people are gona start seeing that. It looks fucking amazing but that can only go so far
IPL's problems are fundamental? lmao
I myself think casting is best done as a duo, but with that said, the solo casting today was quite decent and still passable at worst. The casting in NASL has it's own issues, the casting in the IPL has some of it's own. I would say that neither are really a deal breaker though I personally like casting in well rounded pairs.
Yesterday, I watched 3 games of Sheth vs Rainbow as well and was fucking facepalming waiting for those games to end. The only reason they went on that long were because Sheth kept going fucking Ultralisks and Zerglings against a 19 tank strong siege line when he could have won the game with Broodlords. Then he went Broodlords consistently when there were already Vikings out... Everyone in chat was kind of annoyed because a simple tech switch would have ended the game...
After the first 40 minute game, do you remember the reaction of the casters? It wasn't, "OH MY GOD, what an amazing macro game we just witnessed, that was astounding what play"... It was more like, "Oh... that games was-", "Yeah... that was long".
The quality of games right now is slightly better in the NASL but as we get deeper into these brackets we'll have much better games I'm sure, there were some really solid games today as well.
If they fixed their stream tomorrow, I'd still say the IPL is better because of the quality of production and the amount of content we're getting for free at the quality we're getting it.
On April 22 2011 12:07 Highways wrote: I completely agree, unbelievable production values.
IPL and NASL need to merge because the NASL production is sooo terrible.
How can NASL improve the IPL?
good players good casters good matches?
players granted, but the rest is to debate. I really hope NASL did watch with pen and paper in hand what IGN delivered today and start going to improve their stuff. There needs to be competition, and right now IPL just walks over NASL.
but all of NASL's problems are technical all of IPL's are fundamental.
more then one caster? gretorp getting better every night inc is a legit player thats actually playing well in the league. Diggity coming in and doing well. and kalador who is a very very good. TB is a horrid caster that got on my nerves in a single game.
Yesterday I watched 3 games of Sheth vs rainbow godlike 40+ games in each one. They where better then anything that IPL had today. poorly done 4 gate rush after poorly done 4 gate rush does not a good stream make.
and if tomarrow somehow they fix the stream and it isn't total shit whos a lot better? hell even MLG's going to have a great stream next event.
the gloss is going to come off the IPL and people are gona start seeing that. It looks fucking amazing but that can only go so far
While I don't see a reason to be impressed by the IPLs production quality, I don't see how you can't see this league as a great thing.
Honestly, the production quality of the IPL is almost the minimum requirement for a high-level tournament or league stream. If online communities can put on a show of that quality, a professional organization has no excuse not to.
The IPL can learn from certain points of the NASL, having multiple casters would be a great start, but there is no reason not to expect improvement. Who knows how IGN is going to expand upon this first season, what changes they will make? all we know is that if people like the production they put on now, they'll get a lot more money in the future.
In this case, production value is more important in the long run. We need to know that these guys can make games look good and can attract the casual fans. As much as "true fans" have driven this sport forward, it will be successful off the back of the casual fan.
In the end, if the IPL draws more money, they will get better players and we will see matches comparable to the NASL lineup.
Well the IPL has 150k for prizes this year at the minimum. I think they need to open it up to at least european players, the lag from Europe to the US isn't bad, and when you have White-ra,Demuslim,TLO, RET, ect on top of Idra, Incontrol, Catz, and Kiwikaki then you have a pretty damn amazing lineup. I think they said the qualifier will be open on top of the top4 from this tourney getting auto invites.
On April 22 2011 10:17 Whiplash wrote: I tuned in to watch it and was instantly impressed. The production quality is INCREDIBLE. This is what the NASL should have been.
IGN/WP people, I thought you did an excellent job through and through, besides the map/spoiler issue.
Things I think need adjusting: 1. Co-casters are needed. I'm a huge fan of both TB and Wheat, but I think they would both be improved by co-casters. Not only would it help them set a better pace, but it's also very difficult to keep up with the entire map with just one person.
2. The Stats screen is pretty useless. The minimap and APM are nice, but there's no point to the other three stats and they show very little correlation to what happened in the game. I know this is the fault of Blizzard because the numbers are just borrowed from their recap, but still, an all-encompassing Resources number doesn't provide any useful information.
On April 22 2011 10:21 Lumin wrote: Just turned off NASL and turned on this league.
same lol, I was going to force myself to watch nasl but I saw this other IPL thingy on the TL stream page...I click it and my life is changed.
lol same, and i am an nasl subscriber :O, it just doesnt interest me there are too many mistakes and the quality of everything in the IPL is just way better than NASL ><
i wish it werent true because NASL has great players but the quality is poopy and gives me a headache even as a subscriber watching 1080p, 15 frames per second fail encoding FTL. Its 15 fps for everyone i find it funny the people that say the NASL stream is great/fine clearly they know nothing about video quality, i dont like to play my games at 15 fps, and i sure as hell dont want to watch games that i payed for at that framerate either =/
GO IPL you guys did a fantastic job today, very entertaining
On April 22 2011 12:07 Highways wrote: I completely agree, unbelievable production values.
IPL and NASL need to merge because the NASL production is sooo terrible.
How can NASL improve the IPL?
good players good casters good matches?
players granted, but the rest is to debate. I really hope NASL did watch with pen and paper in hand what IGN delivered today and start going to improve their stuff. There needs to be competition, and right now IPL just walks over NASL.
but all of NASL's problems are technical all of IPL's are fundamental.
more then one caster? gretorp getting better every night inc is a legit player thats actually playing well in the league. Diggity coming in and doing well. and kalador who is a very very good. TB is a horrid caster that got on my nerves in a single game.
Yesterday I watched 3 games of Sheth vs rainbow godlike 40+ games in each one. They where better then anything that IPL had today. poorly done 4 gate rush after poorly done 4 gate rush does not a good stream make.
and if tomarrow somehow they fix the stream and it isn't total shit whos a lot better? hell even MLG's going to have a great stream next event.
the gloss is going to come off the IPL and people are gona start seeing that. It looks fucking amazing but that can only go so far
IPL's problems are fundamental? lmao
I myself think casting is best done as a duo, but with that said, the solo casting today was quite decent and still passable at worst. The casting in NASL has it's own issues, the casting in the IPL has some of it's own. I would say that neither are really a deal breaker though I personally like casting in well rounded pairs.
Yesterday, I watched 3 games of Sheth vs Rainbow as well and was fucking facepalming waiting for those games to end. The only reason they went on that long were because Sheth kept going fucking Ultralisks and Zerglings against a 19 tank strong siege line when he could have won the game with Broodlords. Then he went Broodlords consistently when there were already Vikings out... Everyone in chat was kind of annoyed because a simple tech switch would have ended the game...
After the first 40 minute game, do you remember the reaction of the casters? It wasn't, "OH MY GOD, what an amazing macro game we just witnessed, that was astounding what play"... It was more like, "Oh... that games was-", "Yeah... that was long".
The quality of games right now is slightly better in the NASL but as we get deeper into these brackets we'll have much better games I'm sure, there were some really solid games today as well.
If they fixed their stream tomorrow, I'd still say the IPL is better because of the quality of production and the amount of content we're getting for free at the quality we're getting it.
That's entirely the problem. You are valuing production quality way more than the quality and significance of the games. When it comes down to it. Right now, NASL players are better and competing in something more meaningful at the moment. Now if IPL gets better players in a bigger league then this will be exciting!! But acting like IPL today was better than NASL in any way except production I would argue is entirely wrong..
IGN has done a great job to give us an amazing first night of action for their new league. Definitely going to be something I'm looking forward to and good luck with keeping things rolling as the league continues!
I find this phrase really obnoxious. Am I alone in that?
it does seem a little obnoxious, but let's be honest here. i watched the first day of IPL and you casted like you were selling starcraft 2 to a bunch of console gamers. i don't have an issue with that because you're bringing a bunch of people into esports but at the same time alienating those of us that really love it enough to stay up till 4 am watching live GSL - the "true fans"
Not really. Some of you are alienated, but not all. The noisy few will always come out in opposition of play-by-play casting, but it's the silent majority that are more important. Every caster alienates somebody, it's not worth worrying about and in this case, the IPL was not aimed squarely at TL's demographic anyway, yet still managed to attract and SUSTAIN a significant viewer count from them, so that alone is proof the concept is worth pursuing.
The negativity really is rather depressing if ya take it too seriously and it seems some people are more interesting in tearing down the efforts of others all in the name of 'true fandom'. A true fan would celebrate anything that moves eSports forward, I would think.
I agree with total biscuit 100%, this kind of league put by IGN is the perfect way to introduce people to sc2 and it's entertaining to listen to. There are plenty of videos with game commentary as opposed to casting, but a tournament is supposed to be about hype and excitement. We can analyze the games later. Watch the MLB, during the season the commentators discuss the game, but the cast always needs someone to bring excitement. Once the world series hits, most of the commentating goes away and it's pure casting because people want to watch something exciting. The majority of people watching are not hardcore players, just ask day9. Good job total biscuit
mmmnmmmnmm I'm getting this werid feeling like we're getting into the same debate of husky vs day9 which really makes me :/ because I like husky and I feel like I'm going against him.
just like the day9 vs husky debate, you can still be in both camps. everyone will however find a preference for one or the either.
IPL is seemingly being presented merely as training wheels for real SC2. zero analysis, no player thoughts after games, just lots of 'violence' and graphical fluff with very little focus on strategy or tactics. IGN is clearly focusing on a different demographic that will hopefully funnel a ton of people into the scene the same way husky did. strictly judging after today, i would rather watch NASL for the most part.
I prefer NASL as well, simply because of the caliber of play. I think the NASL will really start to heat up as the players compete for the first and second seeds and enter "must-win" situations.
But I have to admit, there's a lot of little things that the IPL is doing well that the NASL should pick up on.
On April 22 2011 12:07 Highways wrote: I completely agree, unbelievable production values.
IPL and NASL need to merge because the NASL production is sooo terrible.
How can NASL improve the IPL?
good players good casters good matches?
players granted, but the rest is to debate. I really hope NASL did watch with pen and paper in hand what IGN delivered today and start going to improve their stuff. There needs to be competition, and right now IPL just walks over NASL.
but all of NASL's problems are technical all of IPL's are fundamental.
more then one caster? gretorp getting better every night inc is a legit player thats actually playing well in the league. Diggity coming in and doing well. and kalador who is a very very good. TB is a horrid caster that got on my nerves in a single game.
Yesterday I watched 3 games of Sheth vs rainbow godlike 40+ games in each one. They where better then anything that IPL had today. poorly done 4 gate rush after poorly done 4 gate rush does not a good stream make.
and if tomarrow somehow they fix the stream and it isn't total shit whos a lot better? hell even MLG's going to have a great stream next event.
the gloss is going to come off the IPL and people are gona start seeing that. It looks fucking amazing but that can only go so far
IPL's problems are fundamental? lmao
I myself think casting is best done as a duo, but with that said, the solo casting today was quite decent and still passable at worst. The casting in NASL has it's own issues, the casting in the IPL has some of it's own. I would say that neither are really a deal breaker though I personally like casting in well rounded pairs.
Yesterday, I watched 3 games of Sheth vs Rainbow as well and was fucking facepalming waiting for those games to end. The only reason they went on that long were because Sheth kept going fucking Ultralisks and Zerglings against a 19 tank strong siege line when he could have won the game with Broodlords. Then he went Broodlords consistently when there were already Vikings out... Everyone in chat was kind of annoyed because a simple tech switch would have ended the game...
After the first 40 minute game, do you remember the reaction of the casters? It wasn't, "OH MY GOD, what an amazing macro game we just witnessed, that was astounding what play"... It was more like, "Oh... that games was-", "Yeah... that was long".
The quality of games right now is slightly better in the NASL but as we get deeper into these brackets we'll have much better games I'm sure, there were some really solid games today as well.
If they fixed their stream tomorrow, I'd still say the IPL is better because of the quality of production and the amount of content we're getting for free at the quality we're getting it.
Yea i was face palming pretty hard during 2 out of 3 of those games ,the third one just made me feel sorry for rainbow because the lag was so bad, all in all not a great series, i dont know what this guy is talking about but clearly hes never watched the GSL before and seen a truely epic high quality series, like the Boxer vs avenge, that was pretty sickk, or MKP vs Nada yesterday also incredibly sick
Having two leagues like NASL and IPL legitimizes the idea of a North American Star League, and can only be good for both leagues.
The competition between the two will help both improve. NASL will get better production quality, a more exciting backdrop, and better sound/video. IPL will get better players, better casting (dual casters are a must) and more interesting games.
There's no reason to think that they can't coexist. The MSL and OSL have both been successful in Korea for many years.
In the end, it's us, the fans, who benefit the most.
On April 22 2011 12:07 Highways wrote: I completely agree, unbelievable production values.
IPL and NASL need to merge because the NASL production is sooo terrible.
How can NASL improve the IPL?
good players good casters good matches?
players granted, but the rest is to debate. I really hope NASL did watch with pen and paper in hand what IGN delivered today and start going to improve their stuff. There needs to be competition, and right now IPL just walks over NASL.
but all of NASL's problems are technical all of IPL's are fundamental.
more then one caster? gretorp getting better every night inc is a legit player thats actually playing well in the league. Diggity coming in and doing well. and kalador who is a very very good. TB is a horrid caster that got on my nerves in a single game.
Yesterday I watched 3 games of Sheth vs rainbow godlike 40+ games in each one. They where better then anything that IPL had today. poorly done 4 gate rush after poorly done 4 gate rush does not a good stream make.
and if tomarrow somehow they fix the stream and it isn't total shit whos a lot better? hell even MLG's going to have a great stream next event.
the gloss is going to come off the IPL and people are gona start seeing that. It looks fucking amazing but that can only go so far
IPL's problems are fundamental? lmao
I myself think casting is best done as a duo, but with that said, the solo casting today was quite decent and still passable at worst. The casting in NASL has it's own issues, the casting in the IPL has some of it's own. I would say that neither are really a deal breaker though I personally like casting in well rounded pairs.
Yesterday, I watched 3 games of Sheth vs Rainbow as well and was fucking facepalming waiting for those games to end. The only reason they went on that long were because Sheth kept going fucking Ultralisks and Zerglings against a 19 tank strong siege line when he could have won the game with Broodlords. Then he went Broodlords consistently when there were already Vikings out... Everyone in chat was kind of annoyed because a simple tech switch would have ended the game...
After the first 40 minute game, do you remember the reaction of the casters? It wasn't, "OH MY GOD, what an amazing macro game we just witnessed, that was astounding what play"... It was more like, "Oh... that games was-", "Yeah... that was long".
The quality of games right now is slightly better in the NASL but as we get deeper into these brackets we'll have much better games I'm sure, there were some really solid games today as well.
If they fixed their stream tomorrow, I'd still say the IPL is better because of the quality of production and the amount of content we're getting for free at the quality we're getting it.
That's entirely the problem. You are valuing production quality way more than the quality and significance of the games. When it comes down to it. Right now, NASL players are better and competing in something more meaningful at the moment. Now if IPL gets better players in a bigger league then this will be exciting!! But acting like IPL today was better than NASL in any way except production I would argue is entirely wrong..
You realize that all but a couple of the players from the IPL aren't in the NASL right? The quality of play from players can vary from day to day and game to game, there have been some pretty boring days in the NASL, to be honest, if you asked me for some stand out good games, I'd name a few but I could name one or two that were pretty exciting today as well.
Yes, it would be cool to see some of the big names from the NASL in the IPL and I'm hoping we'll see that in the actual launch as opposed to the seeded test run. But as of now, the player list is hardly a deal breaker, considering almost all of them are also in the NASL.
On April 22 2011 13:17 Jeremy Reimer wrote: Having two leagues like NASL and IPL legitimizes the idea of a North American Star League, and can only be good for both leagues.
The competition between the two will help both improve. NASL will get better production quality, a more exciting backdrop, and better sound/video. IPL will get better players, better casting (dual casters are a must) and more interesting games.
There's no reason to think that they can't coexist. The MSL and OSL have both been successful in Korea for many years.
In the end, it's us, the fans, who benefit the most.
This.
Despite what some might think, the people behind NASL and the people behind IPL are not mortal enemies doomed to fight each other to the death. The SC2 scene, as it is, is pretty small. Most influential members of the community know most other similar members either personally, or through one connection. This isn't two sides of a war for SC2 supremacy. This is a group of very dedicated, very determined and very enthusiastic players and organizers who not only want the best for their own products, but also the best for others.
Only, their opinion might differ on how to best bring out that product. But that's the nature of competition, and competition is something that shouldn't be warded away.
StarCraft II needs an ecosystem of tournaments, leagues, and players of all ages and generations. And the IPL and NASL are the first steps of the road towards obtaining the kind of self-perpetuating ecosystem that the scene needs to be a viable, long term bastion of professional esports.
I find this phrase really obnoxious. Am I alone in that?
it does seem a little obnoxious, but let's be honest here. i watched the first day of IPL and you casted like you were selling starcraft 2 to a bunch of console gamers. i don't have an issue with that because you're bringing a bunch of people into esports but at the same time alienating those of us that really love it enough to stay up till 4 am watching live GSL - the "true fans"
Not really. Some of you are alienated, but not all. The noisy few will always come out in opposition of play-by-play casting, but it's the silent majority that are more important. Every caster alienates somebody, it's not worth worrying about and in this case, the IPL was not aimed squarely at TL's demographic anyway, yet still managed to attract and SUSTAIN a significant viewer count from them, so that alone is proof the concept is worth pursuing.
The negativity really is rather depressing if ya take it too seriously and it seems some people are more interesting in tearing down the efforts of others all in the name of 'true fandom'. A true fan would celebrate anything that moves eSports forward, I would think.
I agree with total biscuit 100%, this kind of league put by IGN is the perfect way to introduce people to sc2 and it's entertaining to listen to. There are plenty of videos with game commentary as opposed to casting, but a tournament is supposed to be about hype and excitement. We can analyze the games later. Watch the MLB, during the season the commentators discuss the game, but the cast always needs someone to bring excitement. Once the world series hits, most of the commentating goes away and it's pure casting because people want to watch something exciting. The majority of people watching are not hardcore players, just ask day9. Good job total biscuit
mmmnmmmnmm I'm getting this werid feeling like we're getting into the same debate of husky vs day9 which really makes me :/ because I like husky and I feel like I'm going against him.
just like the day9 vs husky debate, you can still be in both camps. everyone will however find a preference for one or the either.
IPL is seemingly being presented merely as training wheels for real SC2. zero analysis, no player thoughts after games, just lots of 'violence' and graphical fluff with very little focus on strategy or tactics. IGN is clearly focusing on a different demographic that will hopefully funnel a ton of people into the scene the same way husky did. strictly judging after today, i would rather watch NASL for the most part.
I prefer NASL as well, simply because of the caliber of play. I think the NASL will really start to heat up as the players compete for the first and second seeds and enter "must-win" situations.
But I have to admit, there's a lot of little things that the IPL is doing well that the NASL should pick up on.
Good production is all about the details.
keep in mind that these games were played long ago in order to give the production team enough time to create these pretty overlays and the consequence is that the results are leaked and the entire league spoiled. i wouldn't dare open the JTV chat while watching if i bother to even keep watching.
NASL has technical issues that will be ironed out over time but it is a fully functioning league that the purists can get behind and support. i really want it to succeed because they have the right formula when it comes to esports.
On April 22 2011 10:12 Zerker wrote: This thread is dedicated to how good IGN pro league stream is. If you have anything to say, negative or positive post it here!
What i noticed at first - Quality is 1080p, Seriuosly it looks like your watching a dvd! - Audio is amazing, Its crisp, sharp, response is good. - Custom artwork for the players, Almost resembles street fighter! - Professional casters that have a lot of experience in the casting field? YES PLEASE.
Leave a comment of your own, why you think this stream / league is amazing or if your disappointed :D
1920 x 1080 = 6 x ( 720 x 480 = DVD ) in size ( resolution ), but that doesn't necessarily determine the quality. Lower Constant Rate Factor = better quality Lossless encode would be even better though
EPT
