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On April 15 2011 19:25 Cade wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2011 18:45 Geo.Rion wrote:
Understandable? Sure, anti-climatic as shit? Absolutely yes, it's the 5th game, if you know your opponent does 1 thing and wanna take advantage of it with a boring allin, might as well do it the first or second set, it ruins the whole atmosphere of the deciding set, and as a PRO he should know that. This train of thought is the most unreasonable, detrimental thing to esports. "PRO"s should play the game to WIN. NOT to please the crowd.
No crowd, no viewers, no viewers no money from sponsors, then no players. Still think they shouldn't appeal the crowd? Do you think that if the game becomes boring it will have as many viewers and followers? Don't think so.
Still, a big part of the fault is not the players' but blizzards' for making boring strategies effective.
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all i can say is that it's downright shameful for the entire community that a professional like mc was taking so much heat for a game that he had to tweet an apologetic phrase about it.
the players are growing in both skills and stage presence, organizers are sweating their asses off to bring professionalism to tournaments, sponsors are taking a gamble on the scene because they have faith in the public, so i think it's high time the community grows the fuck up already. 
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On April 15 2011 19:32 Aylear wrote:
What in the everloving FUCK? Those assholes were BMing him over it directly?
It was bad enough when you all complained about the proxy in the heat of the moment in the LR thread. The fact that you mouthbreathers didn't understand why MC did it and why it was awesome I can accept, but when you actually berate MC for playing risky and stupid when he did the exact opposite you should all be banned from this community for life. Even if he HAD won without earning it that's still no excuse for acting like a bunch of self-entitled assholes.
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.
Fucking hell.
Look at yourself man.
There were like 5-6 guys insulting MC at best, and they got what they deserved: they were banned. But the rest were just saying MC did not deserved it, if you just can't understand their point of view, then you are the one who should calm yourself.
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I'm happy he doesn't adopt an apologetic stance imo.
It was more like Listen you noobs. It was not cheese. It was a calculated move and i'll tell your inferior brains why it was so and be happy that i did.
Keep rocking MC!
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On April 15 2011 19:44 Apolo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2011 19:25 Cade wrote:On April 15 2011 18:45 Geo.Rion wrote:
Understandable? Sure, anti-climatic as shit? Absolutely yes, it's the 5th game, if you know your opponent does 1 thing and wanna take advantage of it with a boring allin, might as well do it the first or second set, it ruins the whole atmosphere of the deciding set, and as a PRO he should know that. This train of thought is the most unreasonable, detrimental thing to esports. "PRO"s should play the game to WIN. NOT to please the crowd. No crowd, no viewers, no viewers no money from sponsors, then no players. Still think they shouldn't appeal the crowd? Do you think that if the game becomes boring it will have as many viewers and followers? Don't think so. Still, a big part of the fault is not the players' but blizzards' for making boring strategies effective.
honestly that spits in the face of competition itself. the viewers tune in to watch the competition, not watch a "show". this is starcraft not the WWE.
im personally a bit disgusted that MC is being BM''ed over this. he did nothing wrong. he actually did everything right.
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On April 15 2011 19:19 Steveling wrote:
It's not that we say that it was a 50% gamble from MC.Ofc it wasn't,he scouted this weakness in white ra's play from the 4 previous games.
But it's just like for a kick boxer who is about to start a championship match,he studies his opponent and see that he has a bad,broken 2 times knee,so he aims for that knee in the match.
Is it calculated?Yes.Will he get the title and the money if he do that?Probably yes.Is it fair to exploy it?Imo no.
There's the difference.Imo players of MC's caliber shouldn't have to resort to such strategies,even if their life depends on it.
Look it is just common sense. If one player cuts back on early game defense for the price of more minerals and the other one plays a safe opening the first player will obviously get a huge advantage unless the second player decides to exploit it. People who claim MC was gambling with his early agression should realise that it was infact White-Ra who was gambling with his greedy style.
Saying stuff like MC is so good he shouldn't need to to something is idiocy when he is fairly sure he can't beat White-Ra after midgame because of his mineral advantage unless White-Ra makes mistakes. Do you think MC says to himself, I know he cuts back on defense to get the advantage lategame, but I am good enough so I'm gonna play my safe style and try to take on one of the best european protosses despite his advantage with 15000$ on the line. No, he thinks either he himself cuts back on defense which is risky if White-Ra decides to be agressive so he does not want do that. Instead obviously he chooses to exploit White-Ra's week build.
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On April 15 2011 19:44 Apolo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2011 19:25 Cade wrote:On April 15 2011 18:45 Geo.Rion wrote:
Understandable? Sure, anti-climatic as shit? Absolutely yes, it's the 5th game, if you know your opponent does 1 thing and wanna take advantage of it with a boring allin, might as well do it the first or second set, it ruins the whole atmosphere of the deciding set, and as a PRO he should know that. This train of thought is the most unreasonable, detrimental thing to esports. "PRO"s should play the game to WIN. NOT to please the crowd. No crowd, no viewers, no viewers no money from sponsors, then no players. Still think they shouldn't appeal the crowd? Do you think that if the game becomes boring it will have as many viewers and followers? Don't think so. Still, a big part of the fault is not the players' but blizzards' for making boring strategies effective.
Certainly a huge number, and i'd go so far as to say the majority following sc2, can still appreciate the game when players do anything they can to win. If a football game ends in 1-0 do you boo the players off for not scoring more?
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On April 15 2011 19:42 Inflexion wrote:
According to your logic, I mean, Kobe will make the last shot for sure 100%, so might as well make it exciting for everyone. 'A player of his caliber shouldn't have to resort to running out the clock (because they have a 20 point lead) and playing lame, even if their life depends on it.'
Yes,that's exactly what I'm saying.
eg,Yeah Inter won the Champions League(most prestigious football cup in the world) last year,cause they played the most boring ass,defensively football I've ever seen against Barcelona, a freakingly good team,one of the best ever existed.Well woopdy doo for Inter and the lame show they presented.Same goes for MC.
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On April 15 2011 19:19 Steveling wrote:
It's not that we say that it was a 50% gamble from MC.Ofc it wasn't,he scouted this weakness in white ra's play from the 4 previous games.
But it's just like for a kick boxer who is about to start a championship match,he studies his opponent and see that he has a bad,broken 2 times knee,so he aims for that knee in the match.
Is it calculated?Yes.Will he get the title and the money if he do that?Probably yes.Is it fair to exploy it?Imo no.
There's the difference.Imo players of MC's caliber shouldn't have to resort to such strategies,even if their life depends on it.
The analogy is just retarded. Not scouting and not making the first zealot is in no way comparable to abusing a opponents injury. It's like Shogun vs Machida in the UFC.
Shogun reasearched and noticed that Machida didn't protect the sides of his head well while attacking, Shogun practiced for it and knocked Machida out using the knowledge gained from analyzing the previous match. Should Shogun keep from using vital information that could win him the match? NO.
Seems like people want long macro games EVERY match and if someone decides to rush based on statistics and a certain playing style it's always bad.
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Lol, MC is very arrogant in my eyes. When he was in Sweden, I met him on ladder (he was playing on Jinros Account). He first told me he was HuK because he was playing Protoss. Then he asked me if I know MC. I answered 'yes' and told him that I dont like MC. Then he started flaming me with "fuck you" and other stuff. Then I flamed a bit back ofc and we had a little flame war.
So, is this professional?? MC is bm himself so he shouldn't be surprised when other people bm him, too.
And before you ask, yes it was MC. Hotkeys perfectly match and when I asked the real HuK he confirmed me MC was playing on Jinros Account. I still have the rep but I think I get banned if I post it^^.
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On April 15 2011 19:55 Steveling wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2011 19:42 Inflexion wrote:
According to your logic, I mean, Kobe will make the last shot for sure 100%, so might as well make it exciting for everyone. 'A player of his caliber shouldn't have to resort to running out the clock (because they have a 20 point lead) and playing lame, even if their life depends on it.'
Yes,that's exactly what I'm saying. eg,Yeah Inter won the Champions League(most prestigious football cup in the world) last year,cause they played the most boring ass,defensively football I've ever seen against Barcelona, a freakingly good team,one of the best ever existed.Well woopdy doo for Inter and the lame show they presented.Same goes for MC.
As someone else said, why don't people like you just keep to watching wrestling or the globetrotters? You seem to dislike smart play. Inter couldn't win unless they played a very defensive against the best team in the world, they followed their tactic through and won. Good for them.
Not all matches can be loads of goals and offensive play. Every game need some variation and change.
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On April 15 2011 19:44 Apolo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2011 19:25 Cade wrote:On April 15 2011 18:45 Geo.Rion wrote:
Understandable? Sure, anti-climatic as shit? Absolutely yes, it's the 5th game, if you know your opponent does 1 thing and wanna take advantage of it with a boring allin, might as well do it the first or second set, it ruins the whole atmosphere of the deciding set, and as a PRO he should know that. This train of thought is the most unreasonable, detrimental thing to esports. "PRO"s should play the game to WIN. NOT to please the crowd. No crowd, no viewers, no viewers no money from sponsors, then no players. Still think they shouldn't appeal the crowd? Do you think that if the game becomes boring it will have as many viewers and followers? Don't think so. Still, a big part of the fault is not the players' but blizzards' for making boring strategies effective.
the players are playing to win.
they aren't professional entertainers, they are here to win money and nothing else.
if terrible strategies are effective enough to win at the highest of levels, then the only one to blame is blizzard.
cheese sucks.
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On April 15 2011 19:59 IPS.Mardow. wrote:
Lol, MC is very arrogant in my eyes. When he was in Sweden, I met him on ladder (he was playing on Jinros Account). He first told me he was HuK because he was playing Protoss. Then he asked me if I know MC. I answered 'yes' and told him that I dont like MC. Then he started flaming me with "fuck you" and other stuff. Then I flamed a bit back ofc and we had a little flame war.
So, is this professional?? MC is bm himself so he shouldn't be surprised when other people bm him, too.
And before you ask, yes it was MC. Hotkeys perfectly match and when I asked the real HuK he confirmed me MC was playing on Jinros Account. I still have the rep but I think I get banned if I post it^^.
If this is true, then you were the one starting it anyway. So who cares?
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Seems like the anti-MC group adopted a 4chan mentality:
"I don't like ______ and neither should anyone else!"
In this case, cheese (or you know, "strategy").
People who think sports should be played purely to entertain the fans show that they definitely don't watch speculator sports enough (or at all). But I suppose with the younger generation that grows up with a "Hollywood" mentality expect everything to be climatic and story-like.
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On April 15 2011 19:59 IPS.Mardow. wrote:
Lol, MC is very arrogant in my eyes. When he was in Sweden, I met him on ladder (he was playing on Jinros Account). He first told me he was HuK because he was playing Protoss. Then he asked me if I know MC. I answered 'yes' and told him that I dont like MC. Then he started flaming me with "fuck you" and other stuff. Then I flamed a bit back ofc and we had a little flame war.
So, is this professional?? MC is bm himself so he shouldn't be surprised when other people bm him, too.
And before you ask, yes it was MC. Hotkeys perfectly match and when I asked the real HuK he confirmed me MC was playing on Jinros Account. I still have the rep but I think I get banned if I post it^^.
Did u win or lose xD
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Can the OP or moderator update the translation? A few words here and there make all the difference.
In my opinion, spectator in sports is the byproduct of genuine competitiveness among players. That means highest quality of play and impalpable decision making will naturally draw interests because we mortals cannot ever hope (unless you practice a lot!  ) to understand and do the same. This is especially true in Brood War, because just the sheer mechanics these guys exhibit are simply ridiculous.
EDIT: I'm neutral, by the way.
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On April 15 2011 20:04 Jakkerr wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2011 19:59 IPS.Mardow. wrote:
Lol, MC is very arrogant in my eyes. When he was in Sweden, I met him on ladder (he was playing on Jinros Account). He first told me he was HuK because he was playing Protoss. Then he asked me if I know MC. I answered 'yes' and told him that I dont like MC. Then he started flaming me with "fuck you" and other stuff. Then I flamed a bit back ofc and we had a little flame war.
So, is this professional?? MC is bm himself so he shouldn't be surprised when other people bm him, too.
And before you ask, yes it was MC. Hotkeys perfectly match and when I asked the real HuK he confirmed me MC was playing on Jinros Account. I still have the rep but I think I get banned if I post it^^. Did u win or lose xD
If he won he would have written it. 
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On April 15 2011 19:59 IPS.Mardow. wrote:
Lol, MC is very arrogant in my eyes. When he was in Sweden, I met him on ladder (he was playing on Jinros Account). He first told me he was HuK because he was playing Protoss. Then he asked me if I know MC. I answered 'yes' and told him that I dont like MC. Then he started flaming me with "fuck you" and other stuff. Then I flamed a bit back ofc and we had a little flame war.
So, is this professional?? MC is bm himself so he shouldn't be surprised when other people bm him, too.
And before you ask, yes it was MC. Hotkeys perfectly match and when I asked the real HuK he confirmed me MC was playing on Jinros Account. I still have the rep but I think I get banned if I post it^^.
Since he doesn't speak english I wouldn't be surprised if huk, jinro etc. were in the background egging him on/telling him what to bm in his engrish. But that's besides the point. Chat bm has nothing to do with whether his strategy in g5 was "wrong" or whatever. I'm sure MC can handle chat bm, any pro should, but fan ignorance might rile him a tad more.
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There was like five guys complaining about it in the live report thread when it happened, so ofcourse there's gotta be 40 pages of people being upset, defending MC, talking about the meaning or RTS games, and now MC himself has to defend himself on twitter. Christ just let it go. People are gonna be upset at the moment when their hero loses 2-3 to a proxy.
BTW it seems like MC's changing his mind about Sweden ^^
Edit. There seem to be some of people who've never heard of such things as sports, tournaments and competition before. Seems like too many of you are expecting an American wrestling match, with long epic dialogues, insults, and tables smashed over peoples heads. Get over yourself. This is a cometetive game, and people play to win, not to do something fancy. If they didn't play to win, this would never ever be considered an E-sport or be televized. It's just bad.
Name one popular sport with a generally educated audiance that is just for the show, and not about the competetion. There is none and guess why. Because it's boring to watch, because you know none of the parties are even trying to win. It's like pitting toddlers in an MMA game.
If you don't like the competetive nature of starcraft, please don't complain and BM the players. Go play world of warcraft or some other game without exciting elements to it instead.
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On April 15 2011 14:15 Grimjim wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2011 14:06 teamsolid wrote:On April 15 2011 13:38 aurum510 wrote:
Kind of unprofessional by MC honestly. Do you see a coach apologizing for calling a hail-mary play in football on the last play of the game? No.
Do I feel his last 3 games vs white-ra were pathetic allins? Yes. Do I think he should tweet about it to the world? No, because he's just feeding the trolls. Whatever happens happens. Did I lose tons of respect for MC for 4 gating 2 of the last 3 games when cutting probes at 20 and proxy 2-gating the last game? Sure, but seeing him respond to vocal people just makes me even lose more respect for him. You're a god damn idiot. Not only did White-Ra do the exact same # of 4-gates as MC, you don't even realize how 4-gating is the standard in PvP. If anything, I gained respect for MC for not using 4-gate more when the entire Korean ladder 4-gate's in 95%+ of the time in PvP. Why do you feel the need to call everyone who disagrees with you an idiot? The man has a right to be disappointed by the games. I was disappointed as well, be it Blizzard's fault for the game, or MC's fault for refusing to attempt to play a game longer than 10 minutes. Starcraft will stagnate as an E-spot if the "top" play produces games of this caliber.
The same way pro-BW has stagnated? There's always gonna be proxy gates and 6 pools. They're used to throw people off their game or punish greedy play and they have their place in a long series of games between two players.
It's like telling Andy Roddick not to serve too fast because winning points of serves is "cheap" or some stupid shit like that.
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EPT
