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On April 13 2011 22:42 Durantula wrote:
I actually disagree completely with everyone saying that more music is necessary. I feel like it detracts from the focus of the game at times and makes the casting less smooth than normal at times. I know at least several times while watching the GSL i wish they had disabled the music, whether it was because it was too loud or just unnecessary.
They should have music, but at a lower volume than normal. It needs some background noise.
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Overall I'm very impressed with how NASL is going so far. I think many of the suggestions posted in here are valid and would greatly help the cast.
Two big aspects I wanted to point out:
- I think Gretorp did pretty good overall, one thing that kept weirded me out when we had a shot of the casters is how he would close his eyes repeatedly while he was talking.
- Some times Gretorp would be talking and I would lightly hear InControl saying something beneath him, a few times I almost thought maybe Geoff was talking to one of the producers or something like that, but it seemed to always be about the game and then he would talk in full volume once Gretorp paused.
Anyway, none of this intended to take away from what you guys have achieved, the jump in quality is fantastic. Props to you, can't wait for the rest of this season 
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make the VOD's free or atleast the first match like in gsl
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The only problem with the first day's cast that really took away from the experience was the volume issues, where Gretorp's normal speaking voice was way louder than Inc's, and when Gretorp started yelling I had to take off my headphones until he stopped. Easily solved.
Outside of the games, I really disliked the "fly-cam" overview of the maps. They didn't actually help you understand the map and were somewhat headache-inducing. I'd much prefer a top-down overview that better reflects how the map is seen in-game, perhaps with drawings and diagrams on top when you want to point out specific terrain features.
I'm a little disappointed that NASL also went with the blazer+tshirt combo, which I never liked, but oh well, that's just my opinion.
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[!] IMPORTANT tip about Audio Production [!]
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The compression (DRC) is seriously off, and I think I might know why.
Layman's explanation of what compression is/does:
+ Show Spoiler +For those of you reading this that are not familiar with recording and producing live audio, I will briefly describe Compression, EQ, and Noisegates. - Compression (Dynamic Range Compression) is not the same thing as compressing an audio file when you save it as an MP3, or whatever, but is a signal processing effect used to reduce the dynamic range of the waveform. Or, to put it simply, to reduce the difference between the low volume sections and the high volume sections. For instance, without compression you could have low volume sections down at the (1) level, and when the caster yells or gets excited it spikes up to (10) and clips the speakers, sounding absolutely horrible. With proper compression you could compress that range down to (4)-(6).
- EQ stands for Equalize and is the general practice of boosting or limiting the various frequency bands in an audio production, most typically referred to as "lows, mids, and highs." This is what makes casters voice's sound so good, crisp, and powerful.
- The Noisegate is important because you can set the limit in which the audio is not even recorded based on volume level. For instance, you could set the gate to (2) so any sound less than (2) volume is not recorded (shuffling papers, taking a sip of a beverage, dropping something, creaking chairs, etc ...)
TIP: The Compression absolutely MUST be applied to the live audio. It is possible that you're adding compression to the post production, which is fine, you need to do this too, but it is super important that the live audio is compressed before it is recorded.
I can say for certain one of the following is true: (1) You are not applying Dynamic Range Compression to the live audio being recorded, or (2) You are not applying the DRC to the live audio properly.
The dynamic range in the levels for the finished product were way, way 'off,' to the point where I was babysitting the volume button and cringing during exciting moments because I could hear the clipping.
Theory: You want to apply the DRC to the live audio so the waveform that is being recorded has less dynamic range. This way the post production DRC can be used to refine and perfect the waveform (in combination with the EQ settings). If you record the audio without DRC then that is a whole process that is independent of the compression and the post production DRC is going to be somewhat ineffective because the overall waveform has already been produced.
TIP 2: If you're not already doing this, I highly recommend using a Noisegate filter also. Not a huge deal, but it will help.
TIP 3: I know you guys run practice sessions. Part of this needs to include the audio levels. You need to practice talking at a normal level then yelling out in excitement as loud as you would ever yell during a cast. Tweak the DRC and view the waveform until even with all those variable levels coming from the casters the waveform is still relatively "flat."
To the OP - To increase the chances of NASL seeing this message, will you add it to the OP?
Disclaimer
+ Show Spoiler +I apologize if this is coming off as condescending or belittling. It is not intended to at all. I've been trained in audio production and it has been a part of my life since I was young. If you'd like to discuss these things further, please PM me.
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On April 13 2011 22:12 Tofugrinder wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2011 22:04 Axeinst wrote:On April 13 2011 21:57 Tofugrinder wrote:On April 13 2011 21:52 Thorxes wrote:On April 13 2011 21:39 Tofugrinder wrote:On April 13 2011 21:14 Thorxes wrote:BUT...replays are not for entertainment. They're for learning and growing as a player yourself. The SC2 community has always been very active about helping players grow and become better. Allowing access to the replays just follows in suit with this. no current Starleague (GSL and TSL) does this for good reasons! They will never release the replays and that is good! It would be unfair to the players, there's no need for the entertainment and - in the other cases besides the nasl - the sponsors wouldnt like it. But true for all Starleagues: they want to make a great show - not just but some replay files online (you can search the net for thta anyways) NASL isn't GSL or TSL. So they don't have to do what the other leagues do. I don't understand what you mean by "there's no need for the entertainment". I specifically said that replays are NOT for entertainment. They're for learning from and making yourself a better player. Exactly what the SC2 community has always been about. If the NASL is confident about their production value, then releasing replays won't effect them in any way. well as i posted before, there is simply no reason to release the replays. It would just be unfair to the players. Reason: to share information for all players to help everybody Also, replays have nothing substantial danger for competitors what live streams dont already show. In streams we already see what is the style of the players and general timings for things which is enough to know how to those players play. the pros are putting a lot of effort into refining their builds until they are perfect. Sure everyone can figure out a baic build when watching the vods, but the little things are hard to notice when there are no replays released. Why should the pros work their asses of just so others can steal their builds without putting any time on refinement? Seems kinda unfair for me
The pro's share their builds all the time, especially when they do coaching sessions that are then recorded and made available for free....WITH the replay packs!
One could also figure out the exact build order if they had enough time by looking at food counts, unit counts and time in game.
Lastly, the community has always been about sharing information and making players better to increase the competitive nature and thus value in SC2 as an eSport. Replays accomplish this very thing.
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TimeSpiral said everything I wanted to say ^^ Listen to that guy. The overdriving audio was the most annoying part of the evening, followed closely by the lack of music. Just take a page from the GSL and run the game music at low/medium volume
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The option for everybody to choose from 360p 480p 720p and 1080p, so this can become a WORLDWIDE event, for every connection speed.
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Green Screen Background like EG tournament that sir scoots did, so its not so drab. Some production stuff can be popped up behind them
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On April 13 2011 10:40 Jtn wrote:
Better microphone quality for the casters
Instead of a 30 min preshow, just talk about the 2 players and the matchup before each series.
More hype! (maybe music while they're talking)
I actually prefer the preshow. Doing too much in between matches is going to extent the length of the show even more, and on the east coast that means if I wanted to watch the entire thing I'd be up until nearly 1am, way too later for me. Granted, its already bordering on too late as it is, and I can always watch the VODs, but I'm happy to just get more or less uninterrupted games once they get rolling.
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Lag was pretty bad for me and never had that issue before even MLG Dallas was smooth for me whenever I watched.
Observer like GSL so casters can cast. (Look at difference in GSL since Tastosis is just casting not obs)
Advertisements come at terrible times cutting out either gameplay or pre/post game commentary.
HD stream far too expansive. (GSL is about a third of the price and offers VoD not just HQ stream)
Not a fan of Gretorp's casting at all it was either sounding like he was depressed or fake excitement.
Production value was far lower than the GSL when Geoff stated the reason for replays the day after was for more production value.
Either make it live or release VoD the day after. Streaming none live games live is pointless. (would better favour none NA viewers also) More than happy to watch them live but watching VoDs at 6am is just pointless and was angry when I found out on SOTG on the way into work. (you wouldn't watch a "live" GSL season 1-5 would you? Far less convientant than VoD and less enjoyable than a true live experience.
The fact it was streamed from VoDs gave it a "fake" feeling to me. A lot like opening GSL VoD skipping pre game seeing GG going to next match. Seemed like it was just get a game out and done fast as possible since it was "live".
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On April 13 2011 23:09 magyner wrote:
The option for everybody to choose from 360p 480p 720p and 1080p, so this can become a WORLDWIDE event, for every connection speed.
Hi man, i have this choises in the top os justintv. Just choose what is best for u.
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I think NASL has a good thing going on. I really don't want to compare NASL to DHI/MLG etc since the structure of these are highly different. The idea of casting almost every day is brilliant and I think ppl don't quite get that different things matter when we are talking about such longterm league. It's just awesome to be able to watch high quality sc2 on the weekdays too. And of course no one is forcing you to watch it everyday.
Casting is what it is and I don't personally love either of them when it comes to casting but hopefully they will improve. Games are the most important thing for me though.
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[B]
Either make it live or release VoD the day after. Streaming none live games live is pointless. (would better favour none NA viewers also) More than happy to watch them live but watching VoDs at 6am is just pointless and was angry when I found out on SOTG on the way into work. (you wouldn't watch a "live" GSL season 1-5 would you? Far less convientant than VoD and less enjoyable than a true live experience.
The fact it was streamed from VoDs gave it a "fake" feeling to me. A lot like opening GSL VoD skipping pre game seeing GG going to next match. Seemed like it was just get a game out and done fast as possible since it was "live".
SNL, and the Tonight Show's (Jay Leno, David Letterman, Conan, etc) are recorded in front of a live studio audience. Then broadcast at a later time after they've been produced and editted.
That's exactly what they're doing here. If you have a problem with how they're doing it and what the final outcome is....fine. But not liking the fact that it's not broadcasted and casted at the exact same time, when other entities do it successfully shouldn't be an issue.
It doesn't have to take away from the quality of the final product. There are other, more legitimate things, that can do that.
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Personally I thought they were spending a little too much time between matches. Yeah it was only a few minutes but jesus there are FIVE best of threes EVERY DAY.... I'll never get through these unless they storm through them! I thought they did a great job considering it was day one...
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On April 13 2011 23:16 lipebra wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2011 23:09 magyner wrote:
The option for everybody to choose from 360p 480p 720p and 1080p, so this can become a WORLDWIDE event, for every connection speed. Hi man, i have this choises in the top os justintv. Just choose what is best for u.
Are you talking about the live stream?
or the replay stream they emailed to premium users?
cause i tried watching match 3 this morning from their email link from justintv and it doesn't give me an option to change the quality, so it was un-watchable... ( at least on my works connection  )
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I only watched the first BO3 last night owing to being both impatient and tired and being in the UK, but I had no lag with the paid stream, and the only obvious issue was a black screen for a short period in the pre game. I had no lag of any kind either which was nice.
Overall, fairly happy with the content for the price, only thing I'd prefer is the VoD's on JTV being split by BO3 series, though still with all the same stuff as is in now, but really that's a minor issue as it's not interfering with me watching it at the moment.
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Good:
LOVE the production. Game after game after game after game after game, no hiccups, no stopping, immediate action. Absolutely awesome! Would have been nice to see this type of editing utilized when TLO was lagging. Could have just cut that entire part out and came back when the game was normal. Viewer experience would have been uninterrupted.
Love the overlay that shows the pictures of the players and the in game cam of their opening base.
Love the graphics that worked with the blizzard name plates at the top of the screen.
Justin.tv, NASL and Facebook/twitter graphics over the minimap...very cool.
Quality for SD was surprisingly good. Was it me, or did it seem very bright?
Commentary was very good. I have to say, I'm used to day9, djwheat and chill and I didn't think that Geoff and Gretorp were going to measure up. I was delightfully proven wrong. Keep it up!
Love the map fly by's and commentary / description of the maps. This reminds me of when I watch golf, how they have the helicopters do a fly over of the hole, and the commenter is describing the obstacles, etc. Yes, I'm a dork...I know.
Needs Improvement:
Units lost tab up for majority of artosis/sheth game1. Please make sure production tab is up.
I've always thought the whole blazer/t-shirt thing looks very silly. Try something different...something more professional.
Gretorp needs to stop yelling in his mic. I'm glad he's getting into it, but whenever he gets excited, I have to lower my speakers.
During some of the interviews, gretorp looked scruffy. Stay clean shaven and organized man. Thanks for shaving for the main cast. You guys are professionals, right? Look professional, consistently.
Would have liked to see some graphics on the main cam. Something perhaps below the casters that shows their names, handles, teams, etc. I actually got my GF to watch the opening moments and her FIRST question, within 10 seconds of looking at the screen was, "Who are these guys?"
The one flat angle of the casting desk the entire time got a little old. Would be really cool to see one of those "news broadcast" angels, where a commenter is on the right side of the frame, and the left side has a picture of who he's talking about, or the map, or the match, etc. etc. This could alternate back and forth between the casters to provide a little bit more of a dynamic production.
Different transitions then fading. Fade to black for every transition into an interview or bio got old. Maybe some NASL logo fly by's for the interviews, cam flips for the bio's, etc.
Please make sure that during your interviews, you hold the mic close to their mouth. I found myself struggling to hear/understand the interviewees.
Please make a checklist to ensure all bases are covered before starting a game (i.e. Ref, busy, etc.)
I debated about putting this in but...screw it. Maybe it's just me, but there were no cute little sound bytes, music or any other sounds other then the commenter voices and the interviews. Maybe some subtle background music as you discuss the match up or the map?
Sorry if you think some of this is nit-picking. I work in QA as my job, so I tend to look at the details more than the rest. Thanks for everything. Good luck with season 1!
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I have a tip for you incontrol that I learned in speech classes. Everytime you are going to say umm, just say nothing. Say umm in your head and it will just be a pause instead of an umm. It will really help you out. People can deal with a pause but an umm is very easy to notice.
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I dont know if it's already posted but i would like to see some improvement in the VOD department.
1.- More options than 1080p.. i have a pretty decent connection (40mbps) but i still had to buffer a lot before watching some matches
2.- Very low framerate. The framerate is just bad, it's not fluid, specially when big battles occur.. i dont know if the stream was the same (i couldnt watch the stream live) but the VOD framerate needs to be improved
3.- I couldnt find the VOD in the NASL website, i had to go to justintv to find them and that's a blunder. I would love to see the VODs in the official website in a separate section or a link in the schedule section
4.- No spoilers please! If you go to the schedule (looking for VODs in my case) and you select a match, you can see the stats of the players.. like player X vs player Y and beneath them you could see [0 - 1] and [1 - 0] spoiling the whole thing.. make a different page for the stats.
5.- Dont put the whole series in a single file. It spoils the result.. for example a VOD that lasts 30 minutes and player X wins the first match at the 20 minute mark.. you can assume he WILL win the second match because there's only 10 minutes left.. Make it like GSL VODs where you can watch each match separatedly and put dummy links for non existant matches, like the 3rd match in a 2-0 series
i would love to see those things fixed..
and sry for my english, it's not my native language
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EPT
