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On April 12 2011 10:03 kzn wrote:
You technically do get punished for poor performance, although not very hard - bonus pool does not decrease with losses, so if you lost everything for 2 weeks you'd be out.
(I'm pretty sure even I could manage 1 win per 2 weeks in GM league, and I'm terrible >_>)
This is just conjecture, but if you are really doing that poorly, then your displayed ranking (of GM) will be much higher than the MMR of your opponent (mid masters say) such that your win will only get you 1 or 2 points.
If this is the case, then as your MMR gets lower and you continue to face lower quality opponents, at some point it might actually become hard to use up all of your bonus pool such that it does actually go over the threshold.
I don't know if that will happen though. We'll see soon enough I guess.
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Such a weird, convoluted system. It's so weird that performance in the first two weeks of the season is the only thing that matters. I understand they are trying to keep it stable, but if it's just taking a snapshot of a very unstable system then it's meaningless anyways. Why not let it work off a moving points average, or expand it to include more players (1-2k) so that the top spots are more stable?
The more I think about it the stupider this league sounds to me.
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On April 12 2011 10:13 Shadowed wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2011 09:45 Excalibur_Z wrote:On April 12 2011 09:40 Stosh wrote:On April 12 2011 09:09 Excalibur_Z wrote:On April 12 2011 09:00 brotosterone wrote:
So if you don't get in on the first two weeks, and all players stay active, you can't get into GM even if you become #1 in NA in the third week? If it were just the top 200 then the bottom ~70-80ish slots would probably be fluctuating constantly. What exactly is the problem with having a fluctuating bottom half of the league? For the most part, the general public is only going to be focused on the top half of the league to see who the "best players" are. Besides the players themselves, who is going to care if somebody is ranked 198 or 157? In my opinion people would pay more attention to the bottom half of the league if you had to fight to survive. It would be far more interesting to me to track a player to see if he remained in the top 200, rather then vacillating between rank 180 and 200. When I say "fluctuating constantly" I mean constantly. Like, the person you see at #200 may not be the person who's there 5 minutes later. That would be enough change to get confusing and make it difficult to keep track of who is actually in GM. I think that might be what they were trying to sidestep by simply locking the league and adding the activity requirement. Also visually, can you imagine the nightmare that would be. Every few games you see promoted/demoted from GM -> M.
Yes, but they still could have made it so that it reevaluates the Grandmaster league every couple weeks or so. That way it wouldn't fluctuate so often and the league wouldn't be so set in stone.
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I belive MMR didn't reset from last season so I don't see why people are complaining about not having enough time to get into the top 200. Thats why some people were only losing 1 point for a lost and other people losing a lot more (12 to 16 usually?) when season 2 began.
The first season last for ever so the top 200 should be pretty acurate.
Am I missing something or what?
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1543 Posts
On April 12 2011 09:46 Alphasquad wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2011 09:42 Flashback- wrote:On April 12 2011 09:41 Alphasquad wrote:
so if a player gets a new account and is half decent with being mid master on the old account the mmr fluctuation will get him into grandmaster (just remember how many new accounts appeared when master league was introduced) and all he has to do is stay active and even if the mmr drops to the real skill level of this player he will remain there
i just checked sc2ranks come and discovered players with 40% and even lower win percentage being into grandmaster and they will remain there unless they go inactive - pretty hilarious if you ask me
SEA has a much smaller playerbase, keep that in mind. sure i know but i guess there will be more than 200 players with 50% or higher win percentage come one - top200 players with 40% win
It's possible he deliberately tanked some games at the start of the season to temporarily drop his MMR and rack up points a bit faster.
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Perhaps they chose 2 weeks for this first grandmaster league because they plan to re-evaluate the grandmaster league every so often. If they re-evaluated the grandmaster every 2 weeks it would avoid a constantly changing league but also allow legitimately top players to not be left out in the cold if they missed the initial 2 week window. Hopefully they do something like this, I think a rather stagnant grandmaster league for 3 months would be awful.
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On April 12 2011 10:25 Jumbled wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2011 09:46 Alphasquad wrote:On April 12 2011 09:42 Flashback- wrote:On April 12 2011 09:41 Alphasquad wrote:
so if a player gets a new account and is half decent with being mid master on the old account the mmr fluctuation will get him into grandmaster (just remember how many new accounts appeared when master league was introduced) and all he has to do is stay active and even if the mmr drops to the real skill level of this player he will remain there
i just checked sc2ranks come and discovered players with 40% and even lower win percentage being into grandmaster and they will remain there unless they go inactive - pretty hilarious if you ask me
SEA has a much smaller playerbase, keep that in mind. sure i know but i guess there will be more than 200 players with 50% or higher win percentage come one - top200 players with 40% win It's possible he deliberately tanked some games at the start of the season to temporarily drop his MMR and rack up points a bit faster.
It shouldn't be surprising at all.
If your MMR is fairly high, every game you play is going to be against the top of the ladder, especially given how much more active everyone is for the start of the season. Assuming you were 'evenly' placed by MMR before and getting a 50% winrate, this can easily tip you down slightly below that.
People don't have the buffer of wins that they got from climbing up ranks anymore, so master league winrates are going to be, by average, about 50%. Some above, some below.
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I wonder how will this work for LAT Server. There are only ~180 masters right now.
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On April 12 2011 09:00 MacroKing wrote:
Good to know ^^ But, why would they keep everyone who is in GM in GM the whole season, even if they are not top 200.. kinda stupid..
yep, makes no sense whatsoever.
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I think there is some confusion in this thread with people claiming you could stay indefinitely in the GM (for the duration of the season) regardless of performance.
This has been pointed out but I feel it should be re-iterated: remember that since you are in the GM, your MMR is very high, and it will be very hard to spend your bonus pool against lower tier opponents. This means you pretty much *have* to get wins against other GM players, or you will get kicked out.
In effect, the bonus pool requirement enforces both activity and performance constraints. Yes, it might be an inaccurate gauge of the true top 200 once you get to the bottom 50 or 100 players, but for reasons mentioned earlier in this thread, it might be favorable to maintain a non-volatile league.
I think people underestimate just how hard it will be to spend the bonus pool at that level of play and still not be very good.
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United States12240 Posts
On April 12 2011 10:41 whalebot wrote:
I wonder how will this work for LAT Server. There are only ~180 masters right now.
The dissolution of the Master league, maybe? =)
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wouldn't that just mean that the top 200 gets into the GM league, and all the other leagues "move up", so to balance it out again it would promote a lot of people to masters, fill up diamond with some plats, etc untill the correct league distribution is aquired.
Just my guess, but it's certainly a weird situation for a server to be in.
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Thanks for the information excal. I was going to go on an all-night ladder run and try to somehow get into GM. 0-3 so far. Guess that's a no for me. -_-;;
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i really dont understand why blizzard do these retarded things.. how can they honestly sit there and come to an agreement that after 2 weeks the top 200 players will be grandmasters and will remain there forever unless they go inactive is a good idea
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On April 12 2011 10:57 Knutzi wrote:
i really dont understand why blizzard do these retarded things.. how can they honestly sit there and come to an agreement that after 2 weeks the top 200 players will be grandmasters and will remain there forever unless they go inactive is a good idea
It's not two weeks. They considered the entire of season 1 also.
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On April 12 2011 10:50 Excalibur_Z wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2011 10:41 whalebot wrote:
I wonder how will this work for LAT Server. There are only ~180 masters right now. The dissolution of the Master league, maybe? =)
Diamond level Grand Master!
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On April 12 2011 10:21 GagnarTheUnruly wrote:
Such a weird, convoluted system. It's so weird that performance in the first two weeks of the season is the only thing that matters.
Since MMR didn't get reset, all the season 1 performance factors into it also. The only reason to have a couple of weeks at the start of Season 2 is to find out who's active for the new season.
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On April 12 2011 10:59 Buruguduy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2011 10:57 Knutzi wrote:
i really dont understand why blizzard do these retarded things.. how can they honestly sit there and come to an agreement that after 2 weeks the top 200 players will be grandmasters and will remain there forever unless they go inactive is a good idea It's not two weeks. They considered the entire of season 1 also.
It's because Excalibur Z said that eligibility was determined by performance in the first 2 weeks of season 2 and mentioned a moving average. I assumed he meant that eligibility was determined by a player's MMR average over the first 2 weeks of season 2. So depending upon how volatile MMR is, that means that performance in season 2 so far is relatively more important than performance in season 1. Maybe other people assumed the same as me.
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Total design by committee. Some people wanted a top 200 of the previous season, some wanted a ranking of the best currently active players... so we get both...kinda.
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On April 12 2011 10:57 Knutzi wrote:
i really dont understand why blizzard do these retarded things.. how can they honestly sit there and come to an agreement that after 2 weeks the top 200 players will be grandmasters and will remain there forever unless they go inactive is a good idea
It's not "forever", no one even knows the length of the new season. It could be Two months for all we know. I think there will be more movement than people think. Maybe not swaps of 10-15 players a day but, I can see 10-15 new people a week making their way in once this thing get's going.
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EPT
