EPTAI videos are pretty awesome. Reminds me of a guy who made similar impossible feats w/ AI in SSBM. Releasing a bunch of them at once in a flashy video would be sick. Alternatively complete the campaign using a combination of the AI as fast as possible.
Automaton 2000 Micro Bot - Page 34
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
|
ketomai
United States2789 Posts
AI videos are pretty awesome. Reminds me of a guy who made similar impossible feats w/ AI in SSBM. Releasing a bunch of them at once in a flashy video would be sick. Alternatively complete the campaign using a combination of the AI as fast as possible. | ||
|
artanis2
United States732 Posts
On April 14 2011 23:52 Kalafina wrote: It makes me laugh at what low standards this community has. It truely shows the impassable gap between the ignorant and the elite. "I didn't think of this first"?? Why would I limit myself to something this simple? The SC2 Hacking scene has been pushing the boundaries of bots and ai's since the beginning of the beta. Heard of the Green Tea ai? "OP had the ability"?? Give a code monkey a book on implementing a state machine and/or fuzzy logic and it can code this within a day. ANYONE can do it. "Make a cool AI"?? You underestimate me. The caliber of the projects I work on are many times greater than this. If we release these publicly, it'll be exploited by the masses. Proof? Become one of the elites and you maybe able to join our cabal, a true gathering of minds. I'll leave you with these 2 videos. A taste of our progress from 3 months ago. I have said what I felt needed to be said, and now I shall say no more. Video 1 Video 2 All you have proven is that you have less skill than the OP. Thanks for the verification. | ||
|
Cosmos
Belgium1077 Posts
| ||
|
kagemucha
United States326 Posts
Kalafina on the other hand has a LIVE implementation of bots,, The worker split video is garbage but the marine vs zealot video is magnificent. You have to understand that all Kalafina's bot has to work with is exactly what is seen on the screen and has to execute commands through the actual UI just like a "human". You can't do simultaneous actions and there are delays built in. I've never used Galaxy editor or know what Kalafina is doing, so I may be totally off, but an example could be spam warping 100 zealots all at once. In Galaxy, this should be able to be done simultaneously, all at once. Kalafina on the other hand needs to act like a human. He needs to actually move the mouse to the location, press W, press Z, Mouseclick. Galaxy warp(zealot, x_pos, y_pos) vs. UI Bot mousePos(x_pos, y_pos) delay Z keyClick(w) delay Z keyClick(z) delay Z mousClick delay Z keyClick() Now of course the delay might not even be noticeable in many cases, but it will still exists nonetheless. I'm not trying to download Automaton 2000 in anyway. I think it's done an excellent job thus far and the videos are really entertaining. But Kalafina also has something with just as much (if not more) effects to the community. Give him some slack | ||
|
Torment
United States121 Posts
On April 14 2011 19:48 Kalafina wrote: Why are people making such a big deal out of an unimpressive display of hard scripting ai... Not like its hard to do... Before you call me troll, I research ai swarm control for uavs as a job... and those videos don't even show the slightest hint of an applied evolutionary algorithm, neural network or any sort of real intelligence. The author has done nothing but showing how to reduce a huge problem space domain right down to an almost linear problem. Not to mention they use a dumber than shit melee ai (a crappy state machine) to control the enemy... Show me video where you display real tactical intelligence with a mixture of different units, taking into consideration the terrain, and an actual human playing as the enemy. As for people saying blizzard should hire them.. Don't make me laugh. This work won't even cut it as a submission to a C ranked ai conference. I didn't know J.P. from Grandma's Boy had a TL account. J.P. Quotes Soundboard, for reference Tell me, how much do clothes cost in the matrix? Oh, and I'm sorry that you seem to be suffering irritation from the sand in your robot vagina. But I digress... Honestly I'm intrigued by your research of ai swarm control, tell me, is it the future of gaming? | ||
|
MechaCthulhu
United States136 Posts
On April 15 2011 03:13 kagemucha wrote: You guys are a bit too harsh on Kalafina cause he actually knows what he's talking about. He's right in that Automaton 2000 is purely a hard coded script. It's all done in Galaxy editor and ONLY works in this finite context. If you put things in another map/scenario it could possibly break the script entirely. Kalafina on the other hand has a LIVE implementation of bots,, The worker split video is garbage but the marine vs zealot video is magnificent. You have to understand that all Kalafina's bot has to work with is exactly what is seen on the screen and has to execute commands through the actual UI just like a "human". You can't do simultaneous actions and there are delays built in. I've never used Galaxy editor or know what Kalafina is doing, so I may be totally off, but an example could be spam warping 100 zealots all at once. In Galaxy, this should be able to be done simultaneously, all at once. Kalafina on the other hand needs to act like a human. He needs to actually move the mouse to the location, press W, press Z, Mouseclick. Galaxy warp(zealot, x_pos, y_pos) vs. UI Bot mousePos(x_pos, y_pos) delay Z keyClick(w) delay Z keyClick(z) delay Z mousClick delay Z keyClick() Now of course the delay might not even be noticeable in many cases, but it will still exists nonetheless. I'm not trying to download Automaton 2000 in anyway. I think it's done an excellent job thus far and the videos are really entertaining. But Kalafina also has something with just as much (if not more) effects to the community. Give him some slack No one tracked him down and started calling him an idiot. No one found where he lived, tied him to his computer desk and forced him to post in this thread. Unfortunately*, when you go around being extremely negative and calling people noobs, occasionally someone will be harsh back to you in response. It doesn't matter if "he actually knows what he's talking about." He came into this thread and decided to call the OP an idiot with no skill (and calling everyone who disagreed with him "ignorant" and himself "elite".) It's somehow surprising that some people (myself included) decided to criticize his work in response? *Not really unfortunate in any way. | ||
|
goiflin
Canada1218 Posts
On April 15 2011 03:13 kagemucha wrote: Give him some slack You don't walk into other people's threads, acting high and mighty about your accomplishments which are completely unrelated to the conversation at hand. | ||
|
Torment
United States121 Posts
On April 15 2011 03:13 kagemucha wrote: You guys are a bit too harsh on Kalafina cause he actually knows what he's talking about. He's right in that Automaton 2000 is purely a hard coded script. It's all done in Galaxy editor and ONLY works in this finite context. The point is that everything you mentioned above was also clearly posted by the OP, they never claimed for it to be anything more than a series of videos demonstrating scripted events within the galaxy editor. | ||
|
FecalFrown
215 Posts
| ||
|
Torment
United States121 Posts
On April 15 2011 03:21 FecalFrown wrote: My joke about Kalafina was taken by the time I posted. =( I'm glad I wasn't the only one who made the connection  well played, sir. | ||
|
zasda
381 Posts
On April 14 2011 23:52 Kalafina wrote: It makes me laugh at what low standards this community has. It truely shows the impassable gap between the ignorant and the elite. "I didn't think of this first"?? Why would I limit myself to something this simple? The SC2 Hacking scene has been pushing the boundaries of bots and ai's since the beginning of the beta. Heard of the Green Tea ai? "OP had the ability"?? Give a code monkey a book on implementing a state machine and/or fuzzy logic and it can code this within a day. ANYONE can do it. "Make a cool AI"?? You underestimate me. The caliber of the projects I work on are many times greater than this. If we release these publicly, it'll be exploited by the masses. Proof? Become one of the elites and you maybe able to join our cabal, a true gathering of minds. I'll leave you with these 2 videos. A taste of our progress from 3 months ago. I have said what I felt needed to be said, and now I shall say no more. Video 1 Video 2 well you are actually ignorant if you think this thread is about praising the op's coding ability, think a little, it helps. notice how most of the comments are something along the lines "wow looks cool/awesome". yeah LOOKS. | ||
|
Rotodyne
United States2263 Posts
On April 15 2011 03:13 kagemucha wrote: You guys are a bit too harsh on Kalafina cause he actually knows what he's talking about. He's right in that Automaton 2000 is purely a hard coded script. It's all done in Galaxy editor and ONLY works in this finite context. If you put things in another map/scenario it could possibly break the script entirely. Kalafina on the other hand has a LIVE implementation of bots,, The worker split video is garbage but the marine vs zealot video is magnificent. You have to understand that all Kalafina's bot has to work with is exactly what is seen on the screen and has to execute commands through the actual UI just like a "human". You can't do simultaneous actions and there are delays built in. I've never used Galaxy editor or know what Kalafina is doing, so I may be totally off, but an example could be spam warping 100 zealots all at once. In Galaxy, this should be able to be done simultaneously, all at once. Kalafina on the other hand needs to act like a human. He needs to actually move the mouse to the location, press W, press Z, Mouseclick. Galaxy warp(zealot, x_pos, y_pos) vs. UI Bot mousePos(x_pos, y_pos) delay Z keyClick(w) delay Z keyClick(z) delay Z mousClick delay Z keyClick() Now of course the delay might not even be noticeable in many cases, but it will still exists nonetheless. I'm not trying to download Automaton 2000 in anyway. I think it's done an excellent job thus far and the videos are really entertaining. But Kalafina also has something with just as much (if not more) effects to the community. Give him some slack Dude did you read his posts, he's a douchebag. Even if he was the most skilled AI coder in the world, why does that matter if he's a massive dbag. | ||
|
dogmeatstew
Canada574 Posts
On April 15 2011 03:13 kagemucha wrote: You guys are a bit too harsh on Kalafina cause he actually knows what he's talking about. He's right in that Automaton 2000 is purely a hard coded script. It's all done in Galaxy editor and ONLY works in this finite context. If you put things in another map/scenario it could possibly break the script entirely. No one said it wasn't a hard coded script. Kalafina on the other hand has a LIVE implementation of bots,, The worker split video is garbage but the marine vs zealot video is magnificent. You have to understand that all Kalafina's bot has to work with is exactly what is seen on the screen and has to execute commands through the actual UI just like a "human". You can't do simultaneous actions and there are delays built in. I've never used Galaxy editor or know what Kalafina is doing, so I may be totally off, but an example could be spam warping 100 zealots all at once. In Galaxy, this should be able to be done simultaneously, all at once. Kalafina on the other hand needs to act like a human. He needs to actually move the mouse to the location, press W, press Z, Mouseclick. Sure he's not using the editors scripting and is instead working through the SC2 interface which would be much more difficult; however, his attitude in this thread is that he thinks that the algorithms used to control the units are poor and stupid. I'm not claiming they're complicated but he then posts a link to a video in which he does the exact same thing but worse. The marine vs zealot micro is no less situational and limited than the marine vs baneling micro and I don't really see how you can believe differently. Furthermore, the micro bot he linked to didn't do a great job, it was pretty painfully slow (probably algorithm inefficiency) and lost units which to me indicates that it doesn't even do a very limited thing very well. I'm not trying to download Automaton 2000 in anyway. I think it's done an excellent job thus far and the videos are really entertaining. But Kalafina also has something with just as much (if not more) effects to the community. Give him some slack It's cool you can download teh automaton 2000, with the power of the Internet we can all share it. | ||
|
TheNikeYork
United States389 Posts
| ||
|
RoachyRoach
81 Posts
On April 15 2011 03:10 artanis2 wrote: + Show Spoiler + On April 14 2011 23:52 Kalafina wrote: It makes me laugh at what low standards this community has. It truely shows the impassable gap between the ignorant and the elite. "I didn't think of this first"?? Why would I limit myself to something this simple? The SC2 Hacking scene has been pushing the boundaries of bots and ai's since the beginning of the beta. Heard of the Green Tea ai? "OP had the ability"?? Give a code monkey a book on implementing a state machine and/or fuzzy logic and it can code this within a day. ANYONE can do it. "Make a cool AI"?? You underestimate me. The caliber of the projects I work on are many times greater than this. If we release these publicly, it'll be exploited by the masses. Proof? Become one of the elites and you maybe able to join our cabal, a true gathering of minds. I'll leave you with these 2 videos. A taste of our progress from 3 months ago. I have said what I felt needed to be said, and now I shall say no more. Video 1 Video 2 All you have proven is that you have less skill than the OP. Thanks for the verification. I do not mean to burst your bubble. But what this guy has done is way more advanced than the one posted in the OP. Because this is a program that reads the screen, then makes actions based on scenarios that it interprets by itself. The OPs bot is one that uses the AI scripting, as in it works within the bubble of the application. Therefore everything that the bot needs to know is redily available to it. This bot actually reads picture data off of a screen and makes mouse movements and keystrokes. In otherwords. This bot could be used in ladder, where the OPs could not. Although the OPs bot is pulling off much more advanced micro, this guys bot is doing much more advanced calculations. I do hate the elitest attitude though. edit: Everything I just said was already said, my bad. | ||
|
Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On April 15 2011 03:13 kagemucha wrote: You guys are a bit too harsh on Kalafina cause he actually knows what he's talking about. He's right in that Automaton 2000 is purely a hard coded script. It's all done in Galaxy editor and ONLY works in this finite context. If you put things in another map/scenario it could possibly break the script entirely. Kalafina on the other hand has a LIVE implementation of bots,, The worker split video is garbage but the marine vs zealot video is magnificent. You have to understand that all Kalafina's bot has to work with is exactly what is seen on the screen and has to execute commands through the actual UI just like a "human". You can't do simultaneous actions and there are delays built in. I've never used Galaxy editor or know what Kalafina is doing, so I may be totally off, but an example could be spam warping 100 zealots all at once. In Galaxy, this should be able to be done simultaneously, all at once. Kalafina on the other hand needs to act like a human. He needs to actually move the mouse to the location, press W, press Z, Mouseclick. Galaxy warp(zealot, x_pos, y_pos) vs. UI Bot mousePos(x_pos, y_pos) delay Z keyClick(w) delay Z keyClick(z) delay Z mousClick delay Z keyClick() Now of course the delay might not even be noticeable in many cases, but it will still exists nonetheless. I'm not trying to download Automaton 2000 in anyway. I think it's done an excellent job thus far and the videos are really entertaining. But Kalafina also has something with just as much (if not more) effects to the community. Give him some slack Dude...you realize that Starcraft AIs have been in the works for years now right? There have been regular BW AI competitions that work with actual bots not the map editor and every single one of those BW AI/bots are much more impressive than the shit Kalafina posted. Not to mention those bots worked with a shittier engine as opposed to the SC2 engine. In all honesty, we're hard on Kalafina 'cause he made an account to come into a thread and talk shit about the OP when the OP himself said that his work isn't AI and is simply map editor. Add on to the fact that his micro bot is complete garbage (how the hell did one of the marines die??? A human can micro better than that) all culminates in him getting same treatment he gave the OP/TL. EDIT: I'm not saying the stuff Kalafina did isn't impressive or hard to do. It definitely is. But it's not nearly as impressive as you think it is and it definitely isn't so impressive as to warrant his douchebaggery. Go look up some BW AIs (not just the wraith micro video, but actual AIs that can play a game from beginning to end). | ||
|
MaxField
United States2386 Posts
On April 15 2011 05:00 TheNikeYork wrote: Wow that tank dropping vs that sunken was amazing. That was really impressive, i want to see the dropping against stalkers or marauders so that the laser/bullet hits where the tank was, while the tank is being lifted up into the air. Would be so sweet to watch. | ||
|
artanis2
United States732 Posts
On April 15 2011 05:10 RoachyRoach wrote: I do not mean to burst your bubble. But what this guy has done is way more advanced than the one posted in the OP. Because this is a program that reads the screen, then makes actions based on scenarios that it interprets by itself. The OPs bot is one that uses the AI scripting, as in it works within the bubble of the application. Therefore everything that the bot needs to know is redily available to it. This bot actually reads picture data off of a screen and makes mouse movements and keystrokes. In otherwords. This bot could be used in ladder, where the OPs could not. Although the OPs bot is pulling off much more advanced micro, this guys bot is doing much more advanced calculations. I do hate the elitest attitude though. edit: Everything I just said was already said, my bad. I don't care how sophisticated his application is. He demonstrated a poor AI. It is a worse solution than OP's because it performed worse at its task. It doesn't matter how "advanced" it is if it sucks. Reading the screen is an obstacle that is unnecessary and unrelated to the problem of creating a game playing AI. I don't congratulate someone that hammered a nail into some wood using a rube goldberg machine. I facepalm and say "why the hell are you doing this the hard way"? edit: So I reread Kalafina's first post and it now seems like a clear case of not feeling recognized at his job. He see's OP's post and immediately thinks "wtf I do shit more complex then this all day long and nobody cares, bawww!" So, I kinda feel sorry for him now. That's assuming that anything he posted is true, I guess. | ||
|
karpo
Sweden1998 Posts
On April 15 2011 05:35 artanis2 wrote: I don't care how sophisticated his application is. He demonstrated a poor AI. It is a worse solution than OP's because it performed worse at its task. It doesn't matter how "advanced" it is if it sucks. Reading the screen is an obstacle that is unnecessary and unrelated to the problem of creating a game playing AI. I don't congratulate someone that hammered a nail into some wood using a rube goldberg machine. I facepalm and say "why the hell are you doing this the hard way"? edit: So I reread Kalafina's first post and it now seems like a clear case of not feeling recognized at his job. He see's OP's post and immediately thinks "wtf I do shit more complex then this all day long and nobody cares, bawww!" So, I kinda feel sorry for him now. That's assuming that anything he posted is true, I guess. Why feel sorry for someone that acts like that? He could be the best programmer in the world but with that attitude he won't get any credit or fans anyway. | ||
|
RoachyRoach
81 Posts
On April 15 2011 05:35 artanis2 wrote: I don't care how sophisticated his application is. He demonstrated a poor AI. It is a worse solution than OP's because it performed worse at its task. It doesn't matter how "advanced" it is if it sucks. Reading the screen is an obstacle that is unnecessary and unrelated to the problem of creating a game playing AI. I don't congratulate someone that hammered a nail into some wood using a rube goldberg machine. I facepalm and say "why the hell are you doing this the hard way"? edit: So I reread Kalafina's first post and it now seems like a clear case of not feeling recognized at his job. He see's OP's post and immediately thinks "wtf I do shit more complex then this all day long and nobody cares, bawww!" So, I kinda feel sorry for him now. That's assuming that anything he posted is true, I guess. My point was that the OPs bot doesnt demonstrate what a human could ever hope to do. It demonstrates how cool it looks when a game plays against itself. The other guys bot simulates taking sensory info and making decisions. Which shows what is possible for a human to do. edit: retracted insult... the internet is pissing me off today. | ||
| ||
