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On March 30 2011 06:38 Badfatpanda wrote:
Just played with a friend and got placed 2v2 gold still...too bad the team we beat was diamond and it's all we ever play against =/. I will never grasp the blizz mm system.
I was demoted from rank 1 gold to rank 86 silver lolol after playing a platinum player. And after being rank 1 gold for over 2 months.
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On March 30 2011 06:39 ChewbroCColi wrote:" I'm assuming it will be filled with top200 players, based on MMR, 2 weeks from now." Does anyone know if its mmr based or top 200 points based? Would be nice to know. 
MMR.
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One thing is on my mind. Some people said that league ratios are not enforced.
Is that true? Does that mean, that if 50% people drop from bronze during reset and just like 80% drop from silver. Doesn't that mean that players from low silver will get demoted and everything onwards shifts a little bit back?
If you say that nothing is enforced... does that mean that few years from now, when only few hardcore people will play we will have very very few bronze-gold players, because players that will mainly stick will be from plat-masters?
I feel that everyone will be upset because in some weeks everyone will be a league or half of a league down... Does anyone have any information about this topic?
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United States12243 Posts
On March 30 2011 06:17 DemiAlbedo wrote:Show nested quote +Meaning that if you get initially placed in diamond after 1 game, you can get promoted again after doing well in the subsequent 4? I do not believe so. If you played Starcraft 2 from session one you only have to play one placement match and you are immediately placed within a division. If you are a new Starcraft 2 player you still have to play 5 placement matches in order for the system to determine where you should be placed. I believe what the other gentlemen was referring to is that new players can get placed into masters immediately if they do well on their 5 placement matches ( I don't know if that is true or not). I believe back in Session one you could only get promoted straight to platinum, but not diamond even if you won all 5 placement matches.
After patch 1.2 (Master League patch), you could place into Diamond. After patch 1.3 (Grandmaster League patch), you can now place into Master. It's only the highest league that's locked from placement.
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On March 30 2011 06:51 ArYeS wrote:
One thing is on my mind. Some people said that league ratios are not enforced.
Is that true? Does that mean, that if 50% people drop from bronze during reset and just like 80% drop from silver. Doesn't that mean that players from low silver will get demoted and everything onwards shifts a little bit back?
If you say that nothing is enforced... does that mean that few years from now, when only few hardcore people will play we will have very very few bronze-gold players, because players that will mainly stick will be from plat-masters?
I feel that everyone will be upset because in some weeks everyone will be a league or half of a league down... Does anyone have any information about this topic?
League boundaries end up being defined by percentiles of active players. The exception to this is that someone who's placed into a league and stops playing stays there until they come back and lose a bunch, because their former MMR is no longer accurate compared to the active players.
People at the margins of each league may move up or down a league with the reset. The people who threw a ton of games right before the reset (and there seem to be a bunch out there) will find themselves promoted right back to where they were. Many players who have been playing actively probably will end up in the same league, because they're already sorted into the correct league.
The people who will see their standing drop like a rock are the ones who use the season reset as an opportunity to come back after maybe a six month break. I've talked to a couple of these people who have expressed shock at how much harder the competition is since they last played -- their MMRs are essentially stale and need to be brought back into line with the current state of the ladder.
Edit: If only current platinum-masters players were to continue playing the game, those platinum players would become the bronze league. In fact, though, there are a lot of bronze through gold players who are playing the game very actively and are setting the current performance standards for those leagues by doing so. Many of them will probably still be playing the game, and will probably still be bronze through gold, despite having improved significantly with the extra year of active practice. And, for a new player, competition will be even more difficult.
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United States12243 Posts
On March 30 2011 06:51 ArYeS wrote:
One thing is on my mind. Some people said that league ratios are not enforced.
Is that true? Does that mean, that if 50% people drop from bronze during reset and just like 80% drop from silver. Doesn't that mean that players from low silver will get demoted and everything onwards shifts a little bit back?
If you say that nothing is enforced... does that mean that few years from now, when only few hardcore people will play we will have very very few bronze-gold players, because players that will mainly stick will be from plat-masters?
I feel that everyone will be upset because in some weeks everyone will be a league or half of a league down... Does anyone have any information about this topic?
That's basically right, but I want to clarify the second paragraph. The players who have Bronze-Gold skill levels right now will be less likely to stick with the game in 1 year, 2 years, 5 years, whatever. So, what that means for the league population is that those players will be the weakest players in the ladder, so they will trend downward toward Bronze as they play more games.
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On March 30 2011 07:12 Excalibur_Z wrote:
That's basically right, but I want to clarify the second paragraph. The players who have Bronze-Gold skill levels right now will be less likely to stick with the game in 1 year, 2 years, 5 years, whatever. So, what that means for the league population is that those players will be the weakest players in the ladder, so they will trend downward toward Bronze as they play more games.
I would expect that the downward trend would affect everyone. With fewer players, being at the 98th percentile (for Masters), 80th percentile (for Diamond) 60th percentile (for Platinum), and so on will be more difficult for everyone, causing demotions for players in the lower range of their leagues across the board.
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@Excalibur_Z, thanks for clarification.
I will be interesting to see in a month, how many people will drop from ladder. If it's around 50%, which in my opinion is likely going to happen. We will see massive shifts in lower leagues. Which means more competitive action, because let's assume most percent of the players that have quit during first season are players that are ranked lower. (some of them played only >10 games), that means we could see more promotion and demotion action going on, as lower is the population of the ladder, smaller are leagues and less games (if mostly winning) takes from one league to another. And let's face it, league promotion means that our motivation kicks back in!
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United States12243 Posts
Yes that's right, it would affect everyone on a sliding scale. The people at the top wouldn't be affected at all, those below would be slightly affected, and those below that would be moderately affected. This all assumes constant games, though, since MMR doesn't change until you play a game.
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I was 3.2k Diamond, won my placement, and got demoted to Plat T.T I was going 50/50 with high diamonds ...
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Lots of people have been complaining that they have been placed in a lower league than season 1 after their placement league. On the surface it would seem that it is because lots of inactive bronze/silver players have been weeded out, so new players are needed to fill bronze-silver spots, so there is a general downward shift of leagues. But I read somewhere that leagues are made up of 'active players' (definition of active is something blizzard keeps a secret). However this would mean that these inactive players would have already been accounted for when placing people in leagues.
So does anybody have an answer for this? Are they just demoted cause pre-reset they were on the border of demotion anyway? Or does it actually have something to do with the reset.
Sorry if it has been answered before, I have not read entire thread.
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On March 30 2011 08:48 Ryder. wrote:
Lots of people have been complaining that they have been placed in a lower league than season 1 after their placement league. On the surface it would seem that it is because lots of inactive bronze/silver players have been weeded out, so new players are needed to fill bronze-silver spots, so there is a general downward shift of leagues. But I read somewhere that leagues are made up of 'active players' (definition of active is something blizzard keeps a secret). However this would mean that these inactive players would have already been accounted for when placing people in leagues.
So does anybody have an answer for this? Are they just demoted cause pre-reset they were on the border of demotion anyway? Or does it actually have something to do with the reset.
Sorry if it has been answered before, I have not read entire thread.
Can't give you the answer but the definition of an active player is pretty clear. You are an active player if you keep your bonuspool down, or become active if you play a certain amount of games with your accumulated bonuspool. If I read it correctly in a prior post of Excalibur_Z then you won't get promoted until you reached a fixed (low) amount of bonuspool or number of games.
Feel free to correct me if I butchered this explanation.
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God, so many people being demoted.
I don't want to be in Bronze again T_T
Anyways thanks for all the information.
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I was a 3.5K diamond player, winning about 50% of all games (vs both diamond and master players). but after one placement game i was promoted to masters, so not everyone is getting demoted clearly.
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Man... I'm getting completely stomped after the reset T_T 3-12 like a boss
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On March 30 2011 08:48 Ryder. wrote:
But I read somewhere that leagues are made up of 'active players' (definition of active is something blizzard keeps a secret). However this would mean that these inactive players would have already been accounted for when placing people in leagues.
So does anybody have an answer for this? Are they just demoted cause pre-reset they were on the border of demotion anyway? Or does it actually have something to do with the reset.
If someone was playing actively before the reset and didn't have a losing streak in the week or so that leagues were locked, they would wind up pretty close in league to where they started. Someone being demoted or promoted at their placement match was probably close to the boundary, if they had been playing a lot before.
The way it works is that MMR and league have a fixed relationship, but people who play get distributed across the entire MMR range by playing games.
If they did not improve, an active Silver player from last August, when there were a ton more casual players playing, would have had close to a 50/50 ratio the whole time, but they would have seen their MMR gradually drop over that time, until they wound up in Bronze.
If they'd been inactive that entire time, their MMR would be recorded at the August level, and they'd come back to find that they lost all their games until their MMR stabilized at a new level, also resulting in a demotion to Bronze.
MMR only changes due to games being played, so inactive players simply don't factor into how MMRs are distributed among the people playing games. This means there doesn't have to be an activity "threshold" at all -- it's just a soft threshold, meaning that an "active" player is one who's played enough games for their MMR to be accurate, that is for them to have a 50/50 chance vs. players of identical MMR. Players who are inactive for a long time are likely to come back to find that they lose games because their MMR from before is no longer accurate, because players at the bottom have dropped out while those from the top have remained, and the rest have redistributed through the MMR range by playing games.
Edit: There is an activity threshold for the Grandmaster League, but that's not the same as the phenomenon of active players determining the MMR distribution and thus league boundaries.
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I hate that they keep the mmr form the last season. This will not make it a fair new season.
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On March 30 2011 09:11 GrassEater wrote:
I hate that they keep the mmr form the last season. This will not make it a fair new season.
Assuming that today's active population is the same as that of last week, last week's MMR is an excellent prediction of a player's MMR today.
The alternative, resetting MMR to some randomly chosen number, would just result in poor matchmaking for a few days until people sorted themselves out to pretty much where they were before.
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Lol got promoted 3 leagues with a loss. Makes no sense whatsoever
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On March 30 2011 09:11 GrassEater wrote:
I hate that they keep the mmr form the last season. This will not make it a fair new season.
I'm not knowledgeable about the whole system, but how is keeping the mmr from last season unfair? Doesn't that mean we'll be playing against people of comparable level?
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EPT
