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On March 18 2011 05:39 hifriend wrote:
It's a 50 man all invite tourny. Does it really matter who they choose? People are going to be pissed either way.
There difference is the chances Koreans have on winning the tournament, Pokebunny, and avilo have a very small chance, Koreans who have been at the top of sc1/wc3 and played in multiple LAN tournaments would have a very good chance of winning. An invite tournament is horrible to begin with, but restricting out the top players in the world so select teams have a greater chance of winning the prize money is a greater injustice.
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On March 18 2011 04:36 DeckOneBell wrote:
For everyone commenting on the 100,000 USD prize drawing interest...
Isn't that the point of the prize?
Yeah, Koreans aren't going to waste their time playing for small prizes in foreign leagues when they can make more money through Korean leagues and sponsorships. Obviously. This prize attracts Koreans, this is a good thing.
I'm sure they love playing the game, to do anything THAT MUCH, there has to be some love involved. But it's a matter of practicality. Play Korean tournaments (GSL, GSTL) and rely on sponsorships to make decent money, or practice for those less and play in foreign leagues to make tiny amounts of money. It's pretty clear what they'd choose.
A lot of this grief is because of the invite system, though. As spectators, we have no real insight on the selection process, and it feels a lot like favoritism. This is all old news, but you shouldn't be surprised to have controversy arrive in an invitational system worth this much money.
If it were a smaller, one time tournament, it probably wouldn't get as much attention, but as a 3-season tournament with large prizes and no evidence of a qualification system in place (other than an open qualifier for a single position out of 16, a bit ridiculous given the probability of the best player being knocked out randomly) it's a little sketchy.
I personally believe that Koreans are now a fair amount ahead in SC2. But I'd love to be proven wrong. I'd rather be proven wrong than have the issue avoided altogether, in some mockery of a league that is the "best of the best."
NASL needs to deliver.
Actually they changed the open qualifications to be alot more forgiving as far as ive understood, the bottom 16 players of the tournament get the boot, and the top 16 of the open take their place, so although the first season will surely have controversy if it goes beyond three seasons we will see players deserving of their position in the NASL eventually.
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+ Show Spoiler +That depends if the NASL is the Olympics or the homegrown leagues (Chinese Basketball Association, NBA).
A fair question-- I'd submit that even if NASL is the NBA, having Yao Ming come play for us has been a major boon in terms of growing the sport abroad. I guess in that analogy the NBA is more like Korea and Yao more like a LiquidJinro. I can't really think of any Americans in their prime competing abroad, which is why I suggested the Olympics as NASL.
In either case, I really think people are being short-sighted, particularly if players like Tyler/Idra/Jinro/(?) can take some games off of Korean players. And even if they can't, how spectacular to see the clash of Korea's finest versus those of the rest of the world. It will be a memorable, and hopefully kickstart the competition here in the US and abroad.
That being said, if they change NASL to be more like GSL/MLG with live matches, I won't necessarily shed a tear, as seeing the actual players in the booths in televised/streamed matches is so much a party of building hype. But for at least this first season where no such set-up exists, I see no reason not to invite top-tier Korean players.
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On March 18 2011 05:32 dsousa wrote:
I think we are all scared about this issue, because on the people who are the "Face" of NASL so far.
Clearly, those people have shown to have a group of "friends" and groups of people they disrespect. So how can we trust them to be impartial in picking the 50 players?
Other scary issues....
*Idra moved back to play in the NASL and such.. why would he move back if Korean's can play, while playing in Code S?
*They didn't contact oGs, or other Korean's about applying... hence the late applications of oGs members (btw... MC should get a FEDEX inviting him to come.... he shouldn't have to even apply)
These thing lead us to fear top Korean's will be excluded.
My guess: they will invite a disappointing amount of Korean talent (5 or less)... and give some excuse for why that was the only feasible option.
Hope I'm wrong....
Yea that is suspicious at best, i rreally hope it doesnt go how you say, the faces of the NASL having a group of friends who they invite and dont invite people they disrespect regardless of skill but as ive said many times, incontrol has said he will be playing in the league, wich means he gets an auto invite as the face of the NASL if this is true. For one player its not such a huge deal for it to happen with many players, i think the community will be outraged.(im not saying its for sure going to happen but its something to think about) NASL should be more than happy to accomadate any tip top korean players it will bring in viewers like crazy from korea and all around the world, this tournament being an international success is way more of of a big deal then it being a success exclusively in NA. And your right mc shouldnt even have to ask. I still cant beleive that they said they would contact korean teams and then supposedly didnt when the deadline was very close. IF this is true purposely trying to exclude players everyone wants to see does not bode well for the league, Suspicous.
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On March 18 2011 05:47 cheesemaster wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2011 04:36 DeckOneBell wrote:
For everyone commenting on the 100,000 USD prize drawing interest...
Isn't that the point of the prize?
Yeah, Koreans aren't going to waste their time playing for small prizes in foreign leagues when they can make more money through Korean leagues and sponsorships. Obviously. This prize attracts Koreans, this is a good thing.
I'm sure they love playing the game, to do anything THAT MUCH, there has to be some love involved. But it's a matter of practicality. Play Korean tournaments (GSL, GSTL) and rely on sponsorships to make decent money, or practice for those less and play in foreign leagues to make tiny amounts of money. It's pretty clear what they'd choose.
A lot of this grief is because of the invite system, though. As spectators, we have no real insight on the selection process, and it feels a lot like favoritism. This is all old news, but you shouldn't be surprised to have controversy arrive in an invitational system worth this much money.
If it were a smaller, one time tournament, it probably wouldn't get as much attention, but as a 3-season tournament with large prizes and no evidence of a qualification system in place (other than an open qualifier for a single position out of 16, a bit ridiculous given the probability of the best player being knocked out randomly) it's a little sketchy.
I personally believe that Koreans are now a fair amount ahead in SC2. But I'd love to be proven wrong. I'd rather be proven wrong than have the issue avoided altogether, in some mockery of a league that is the "best of the best."
NASL needs to deliver. Actually they changed the open qualifications to be alot more forgiving as far as ive understood, the bottom 16 players of the tournament get the boot, and the top 16 of the open take their place, so although the first season will surely have controversy if it goes beyond three seasons we will see players deserving of their position in the NASL eventually.
Hmm... that seems pretty strange that they don't get to play to keep their spot. If at some point the best 50 people who applied are in the league, it would be unfortunate to have the next 16 players take the bottom 16 players spots. I know it won't end up that perfectly, and of course the better player may lose anyway if its a bad day (though the same can be said for good players ending up in the bottom 16 for one season) but I think fighting for the spot just like the up/down matches in the GSL would be better.
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I believe the bottom 16 can still try and qualify for the next season by entering the open
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why didnt they just hold open qualifiers a la season 1 2 and 3 of the gsl? it seems to have worked very well in the long run.
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On March 18 2011 05:47 cheesemaster wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2011 04:36 DeckOneBell wrote:
For everyone commenting on the 100,000 USD prize drawing interest...
Isn't that the point of the prize?
Yeah, Koreans aren't going to waste their time playing for small prizes in foreign leagues when they can make more money through Korean leagues and sponsorships. Obviously. This prize attracts Koreans, this is a good thing.
I'm sure they love playing the game, to do anything THAT MUCH, there has to be some love involved. But it's a matter of practicality. Play Korean tournaments (GSL, GSTL) and rely on sponsorships to make decent money, or practice for those less and play in foreign leagues to make tiny amounts of money. It's pretty clear what they'd choose.
A lot of this grief is because of the invite system, though. As spectators, we have no real insight on the selection process, and it feels a lot like favoritism. This is all old news, but you shouldn't be surprised to have controversy arrive in an invitational system worth this much money.
If it were a smaller, one time tournament, it probably wouldn't get as much attention, but as a 3-season tournament with large prizes and no evidence of a qualification system in place (other than an open qualifier for a single position out of 16, a bit ridiculous given the probability of the best player being knocked out randomly) it's a little sketchy.
I personally believe that Koreans are now a fair amount ahead in SC2. But I'd love to be proven wrong. I'd rather be proven wrong than have the issue avoided altogether, in some mockery of a league that is the "best of the best."
NASL needs to deliver. Actually they changed the open qualifications to be alot more forgiving as far as ive understood, the bottom 16 players of the tournament get the boot, and the top 16 of the open take their place, so although the first season will surely have controversy if it goes beyond three seasons we will see players deserving of their position in the NASL eventually.
Wait, they did?
Can I get a link to that? I thought the bottom 16 would play their own little next season qualifier determining the bottom 8 who actually drop out.
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Do the Korean players have to submit application videos too? I think that would be rather entertaining, to say the least =P
Also, does anyone really know how many Korean teams will even bother sending players? Granted the prize pool and prestige of NASL is no small beans, but considering how tight the GSL/GSTL schedule is right now, will Korean players even have time to participate in NASL?
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On March 18 2011 07:26 Gara wrote:
Do the Korean players have to submit application videos too? I think that would be rather entertaining, to say the least =P
Also, does anyone really know how many Korean teams will even bother sending players? Granted the prize pool and prestige of NASL is no small beans, but considering how tight the GSL/GSTL schedule is right now, will Korean players even have time to participate in NASL?
Well so far a few actually DID post a VOD application were they actually try to speak english (something i have huge respect for)
as far as i know its been the startale team and ogs team, dunno if there are others.
That includes huge ppl like July and MC.
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No matter who they decide to invite, the NASL will be heavily criticized. Hell, they haven't even picked anyone and already this community is foaming at the mouth. Only way they can save themselves is to run a well organized tournament and hope the players they end up picking produce some exciting games.
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On March 18 2011 08:00 kdmx wrote:
No matter who they decide to invite, the NASL will be heavily criticized. Hell, they haven't even picked anyone and already this community is foaming at the mouth. Only way they can save themselves is to run a well organized tournament and hope the players they end up picking produce some exciting games.
I won't criticize them 1 bit if they invite all the Code S level players that apply.
If they snub code S players though.... well.....certainly it will be bad bad karma.
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On March 18 2011 07:26 Gara wrote:
Do the Korean players have to submit application videos too? I think that would be rather entertaining, to say the least =P
Also, does anyone really know how many Korean teams will even bother sending players? Granted the prize pool and prestige of NASL is no small beans, but considering how tight the GSL/GSTL schedule is right now, will Korean players even have time to participate in NASL?
you can see oGs and ST application vids here:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=199090
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On March 18 2011 05:47 Holcan wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2011 05:39 hifriend wrote:
It's a 50 man all invite tourny. Does it really matter who they choose? People are going to be pissed either way. There difference is the chances Koreans have on winning the tournament, Pokebunny, and avilo have a very small chance, Koreans who have been at the top of sc1/wc3 and played in multiple LAN tournaments would have a very good chance of winning. An invite tournament is horrible to begin with, but restricting out the top players in the world so select teams have a greater chance of winning the prize money is a greater injustice.
Pokebunny and avilo wouldn't be in the NASL even without Korean invites.
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The first season will be rocky without a doubt. But we shouldn't rush to our proverbial pillaging torches if it doesn't go down as flawlessly as we hype it up to be. Getting a high profile tournament running on a consistent basis like they have in Korea will take some time, and it is in our best interest as enthusiasts to at least attempt to focus on all the good parts they get right, while providing calm and constructive criticism for the things we feel could be done better.
I am less nervous about the Korean/Foreigner issue then I am about Fans/NASL relations issue. If we fall apart over the smallest of things, no matter how much work the organizers put into it and how much money backs it, it will fail and set western e-sports back.
I just really hope all the pressure in the community diffuses before it explodes. :\
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On March 18 2011 08:00 kdmx wrote:
No matter who they decide to invite, the NASL will be heavily criticized. Hell, they haven't even picked anyone and already this community is foaming at the mouth. Only way they can save themselves is to run a well organized tournament and hope the players they end up picking produce some exciting games.
The thing that feels wrong about the whole thing is that you have a tourney with so much money on the line, but instead of having qualifiers and then some wildcards that can be given to "local talents" or whatever you wanna call them, you do an invitational where it's not clear on how they are gonna pick the players.
If they would have had clear rules from start, say X amount of players from each region, there wouldn't be so much debate over this.
At this point no one knows what the qualifications are just that they want the audience to "relate to the player", whatever that even means.
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On March 18 2011 08:13 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:
The first season will be rocky without a doubt. But we shouldn't rush to our proverbial pillaging torches if it doesn't go down as flawlessly as we hype it up to be. Getting a high profile tournament running on a consistent basis like they have in Korea will take some time, and it is in our best interest as enthusiasts to at least attempt to focus on all the good parts they get right, while providing calm and constructive criticism for the things we feel could be done better.
I am less nervous about the Korean/Foreigner issue then I am about Fans/NASL relations issue. If we fall apart over the smallest of things, no matter how much work the organizers put into it and how much money backs it, it will fail and set western e-sports back.
I just really hope all the pressure in the community diffuses before it explodes. :\
I think the fan support is extreme.....
>If we fall apart over the smallest of things
Inviting the best players isn't one of "the smallest things" is it?
When I watch SC (which is often) I always watch based on who's playing.... who's playing is literally the biggest factor in viewership.
I like to watch the best players.... NASL can get the best players.....
it just better happen... its not a little thing... ITS THE ONLY THING!!!!!!! jk :D (seriously though, its big)
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On March 18 2011 06:05 Chicane wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2011 05:47 cheesemaster wrote:On March 18 2011 04:36 DeckOneBell wrote:
For everyone commenting on the 100,000 USD prize drawing interest...
Isn't that the point of the prize?
Yeah, Koreans aren't going to waste their time playing for small prizes in foreign leagues when they can make more money through Korean leagues and sponsorships. Obviously. This prize attracts Koreans, this is a good thing.
I'm sure they love playing the game, to do anything THAT MUCH, there has to be some love involved. But it's a matter of practicality. Play Korean tournaments (GSL, GSTL) and rely on sponsorships to make decent money, or practice for those less and play in foreign leagues to make tiny amounts of money. It's pretty clear what they'd choose.
A lot of this grief is because of the invite system, though. As spectators, we have no real insight on the selection process, and it feels a lot like favoritism. This is all old news, but you shouldn't be surprised to have controversy arrive in an invitational system worth this much money.
If it were a smaller, one time tournament, it probably wouldn't get as much attention, but as a 3-season tournament with large prizes and no evidence of a qualification system in place (other than an open qualifier for a single position out of 16, a bit ridiculous given the probability of the best player being knocked out randomly) it's a little sketchy.
I personally believe that Koreans are now a fair amount ahead in SC2. But I'd love to be proven wrong. I'd rather be proven wrong than have the issue avoided altogether, in some mockery of a league that is the "best of the best."
NASL needs to deliver. Actually they changed the open qualifications to be alot more forgiving as far as ive understood, the bottom 16 players of the tournament get the boot, and the top 16 of the open take their place, so although the first season will surely have controversy if it goes beyond three seasons we will see players deserving of their position in the NASL eventually. Hmm... that seems pretty strange that they don't get to play to keep their spot. If at some point the best 50 people who applied are in the league, it would be unfortunate to have the next 16 players take the bottom 16 players spots. I know it won't end up that perfectly, and of course the better player may lose anyway if its a bad day (though the same can be said for good players ending up in the bottom 16 for one season) but I think fighting for the spot just like the up/down matches in the GSL would be better.
Yea they didnt give a very good explanation but maybe thats how it goes. Would make more sense if it was like the up and down matches but they never specified it would be.
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On March 18 2011 07:14 Bobster wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2011 05:47 cheesemaster wrote:On March 18 2011 04:36 DeckOneBell wrote:
For everyone commenting on the 100,000 USD prize drawing interest...
Isn't that the point of the prize?
Yeah, Koreans aren't going to waste their time playing for small prizes in foreign leagues when they can make more money through Korean leagues and sponsorships. Obviously. This prize attracts Koreans, this is a good thing.
I'm sure they love playing the game, to do anything THAT MUCH, there has to be some love involved. But it's a matter of practicality. Play Korean tournaments (GSL, GSTL) and rely on sponsorships to make decent money, or practice for those less and play in foreign leagues to make tiny amounts of money. It's pretty clear what they'd choose.
A lot of this grief is because of the invite system, though. As spectators, we have no real insight on the selection process, and it feels a lot like favoritism. This is all old news, but you shouldn't be surprised to have controversy arrive in an invitational system worth this much money.
If it were a smaller, one time tournament, it probably wouldn't get as much attention, but as a 3-season tournament with large prizes and no evidence of a qualification system in place (other than an open qualifier for a single position out of 16, a bit ridiculous given the probability of the best player being knocked out randomly) it's a little sketchy.
I personally believe that Koreans are now a fair amount ahead in SC2. But I'd love to be proven wrong. I'd rather be proven wrong than have the issue avoided altogether, in some mockery of a league that is the "best of the best."
NASL needs to deliver. Actually they changed the open qualifications to be alot more forgiving as far as ive understood, the bottom 16 players of the tournament get the boot, and the top 16 of the open take their place, so although the first season will surely have controversy if it goes beyond three seasons we will see players deserving of their position in the NASL eventually. Wait, they did? Can I get a link to that? I thought the bottom 16 would play their own little next season qualifier determining the bottom 8 who actually drop out.
Maybe i didnt read it right ,either way they didnt give a very good explanation about it let me try and find it again. hold up
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On March 18 2011 08:13 vdale wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2011 05:47 Holcan wrote:On March 18 2011 05:39 hifriend wrote:
It's a 50 man all invite tourny. Does it really matter who they choose? People are going to be pissed either way. There difference is the chances Koreans have on winning the tournament, Pokebunny, and avilo have a very small chance, Koreans who have been at the top of sc1/wc3 and played in multiple LAN tournaments would have a very good chance of winning. An invite tournament is horrible to begin with, but restricting out the top players in the world so select teams have a greater chance of winning the prize money is a greater injustice. Pokebunny and avilo wouldn't be in the NASL even without Korean invites.
Why would you focus on such a minute point in my post, fine put in incontrol and artosis, two players who have the slimest chances of winning, but will most likely be in the tournament, my point still stands that Koreans will be taking the prize money from the people creating the tournament, which the people creating the tournament do not want to happen.
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EPT
