SO the bottom 16 will be out, but they can requalify some how look for yourself you may understand better then me. also good news everyone! they say they are currently in talk with korean team representatives and that koreans will in fact be in the gsl, YIPEE HURRAY
Edit: it looks like there will be 2 1024 man tournaments and 8 players from each will be given a spot in the next season.
Also because every player is going to face every other player in this tournament style and it isnt just based on 1 series the bottom 16 players will really most likely be the bottom 16 players of the tournament (the less skilled players) they have a chance to requalify in 1 or both of the 2 big tournaments. I think this is fair and i am liking what i see quite a bit +1 for NASL!
also they are in talks with korea teams plural meaning we will see top koreans from multiple teams most likely :D
On March 18 2011 08:13 Torpedo.Vegas wrote: The first season will be rocky without a doubt. But we shouldn't rush to our proverbial pillaging torches if it doesn't go down as flawlessly as we hype it up to be. Getting a high profile tournament running on a consistent basis like they have in Korea will take some time, and it is in our best interest as enthusiasts to at least attempt to focus on all the good parts they get right, while providing calm and constructive criticism for the things we feel could be done better.
I am less nervous about the Korean/Foreigner issue then I am about Fans/NASL relations issue. If we fall apart over the smallest of things, no matter how much work the organizers put into it and how much money backs it, it will fail and set western e-sports back.
I just really hope all the pressure in the community diffuses before it explodes. :\
I think the fan support is extreme.....
>If we fall apart over the smallest of things
Inviting the best players isn't one of "the smallest things" is it?
When I watch SC (which is often) I always watch based on who's playing.... who's playing is literally the biggest factor in viewership.
I like to watch the best players.... NASL can get the best players.....
it just better happen... its not a little thing... ITS THE ONLY THING!!!!!!! jk :D (seriously though, its big)
I agree, who is playing influences what games I would like to watch too. But there are more then 50 players who are good and who people would enjoy watching, its relative to the viewer. And I get the feeling that if people don't get what amounts to a GSL-clone with regards to Korean/Foreigner representation, that the torches and pitchforks will come out. Ideally Korea isn't going to the nexus for top players. Ideally, the organization and support for things like Team houses and what not will expand globally. But this isn't going to happen if the there is not enough foreign representation to validate doing this. So in an invite only scenario for an up and coming major foreign league, it would be their long term best interest to best represent the quality of the foreign contingent.
I am actually quite releived now that they have released the format information and the fact that they are in talks with korean teams and representatives, a weight has been lifted from my shoulders
On March 18 2011 05:39 hifriend wrote: It's a 50 man all invite tourny. Does it really matter who they choose? People are going to be pissed either way.
There difference is the chances Koreans have on winning the tournament, Pokebunny, and avilo have a very small chance, Koreans who have been at the top of sc1/wc3 and played in multiple LAN tournaments would have a very good chance of winning. An invite tournament is horrible to begin with, but restricting out the top players in the world so select teams have a greater chance of winning the prize money is a greater injustice.
Pokebunny and avilo wouldn't be in the NASL even without Korean invites.
Why would you focus on such a minute point in my post, fine put in incontrol and artosis, two players who have the slimest chances of winning, but will most likely be in the tournament, my point still stands that Koreans will be taking the prize money from the people creating the tournament, which the people creating the tournament do not want to happen.
A Korean individual/team taking the prize money.. how is that different from say, WhiteRa winning and taking the prize money? Is any of them going to donate their prize money back to the tournament organizers? Do we need to have a champion from EG because EG seems to be one of the important figures in organizing NASL?
EDIT: I read your previous posts and it seems I misunderstood that one post of yours. I actually agree with you now.
Note: I don't pretend to guess what the actual officials of NASL are planning to do. I'm only speaking toward some opinions voiced by some within the community. There have been many who argue that NASL is trying to create compelling story lines, and therefore should limit or eliminate Koreans from participating. They say that creating an environment for the best possible games to be played is secondary or perhaps even contradictory to having an environment with good story lines. That way, my friends, leads to madness, disappointment, professional wrestling, and FOX channel reality shows. Do people really want Kitchen Nightmares US the Starcraft version? Let's pause for a moment, and think about the GSL thus far. The GSL attempted to gather the greatest players of Starcraft II in the world and put them in a single tournament to find out who is the best. There was no mercy, no handicaps. Players won and lost on the strength of their skill alone. And what kind of drama and what kind of story lines developed? Incredible ones. If we think back to the GSL, there were no prearranged or produced story lines. All the story lines emerged naturally. FruitDealer winning Season 1, coming out of forced suspension due to his family, was epic and moving, but not planned. Boxer/Foxer/MarineKingPrime and his ascension from a player everyone dismissed as a lame copy to a powerhouse who took out the Season 1 champion, and appeared in two GSL Finals was not dreamed up by a wily producer. oGsMC's confident personality and style -- and his victory in GSL3 and defeat in GSL4 to someone he steamrolled in GSL3 was not the result of a carefully planned PR campaign. And there's more! IMMvP's meoteoric rise and fall from Code S champion to Up/Down matches participant. Slayers_Boxer's heartfelt entrance into Starcraft II and his struggles to retain relevancy in the face of younger players. LiquidJinro's incredible streak to 2 final four appearances, and his back and forth battles with oGsMC. SanZenith's cinderella story in his last GSL before his military service. LiquidHuk's road from Code A to trying to reach Code S, and his failures to qualify for pevious GSL opens. Three titans of Brood War (July, Nada, Boxer) returning to try and reclaim their former glory. There are hundreds more moments in not just GSL, but tournaments and games across the world. HuK's "that's halo" moment in MLG. Idra's "Gracken" nickname. Select's arduous trek to MLG finals through the loser's bracket. ActionJesus's relentless sixpools at Dreamhack 2010. Loner and (at that time) NexGenius's epic back and forth at Blizzcon. Unending tie-breakers and "Korean's pwn white people" at IEM 2011. These are all moments that arose organically, naturally, unplanned and uncalled. They rose out of the spirit of competition. All this in less than a year since the official retail release of Starcraft II. In the well-meaning eagerness of our community to give NASL wide appeal, let's not forget what makes these moments of lore and story so special in the first place: Authenticity. Spontaneity. And perhaps most important, community driven. A Starcraft II e-sports scene with drama and plots crafted by producers is not a community I want to be part of. I mean, if I wanted that, I'd just dress up at as a giant Zergling and attend a WWE game. In the interest of collecting more story lines and lore that developed through the act of play and practice, I'd love to hear other stories I didn't list in the comments.
On March 18 2011 08:38 cheesemaster wrote: I am actually quite releived now that they have released the format information and the fact that they are in talks with korean teams and representatives, a weight has been lifted from my shoulders
They've said they would contact the Korean teams quite some time ago, but it doesn't look like that has happened yet according to Jinro and that is why oGs players' applications were sent in late close to the deadline. I'm not sure if it's just a coincidence that the two Koreans teams that have sent in applications have foreigners (Torch and Liquid players) in their houses who can closely follow the English speaking community and update them about what needs to be done and their deadlines.
SO the bottom 16 will be out, but they can requalify some how look for yourself you may understand better then me. also good news everyone! they say they are currently in talk with korean team representatives and that koreans will in fact be in the gsl, YIPEE HURRAY
Edit: it looks like there will be 2 1024 man tournaments and 8 players from each will be given a spot in the next season.
You know we can speculate over merits of Korean participation all day, but if they are that much better than foreigners then I am sure the 16 qualifiers for next season will be Korean heavy. So without limits, it seems like they'd take over eventually anyways right? (Again big emphasis on the fact they have a big gap on foreigners.)
On March 18 2011 08:38 cheesemaster wrote: I am actually quite releived now that they have released the format information and the fact that they are in talks with korean teams and representatives, a weight has been lifted from my shoulders
They've said they would contact the Korean teams quite some time ago, but it doesn't look like that has happened yet according to Jinro and that is why oGs players' applications were sent in late close to the deadline. I'm not sure if it's just a coincidence that the two Koreans teams that have sent in applications have foreigners (Torch and Liquid players) in their houses who can closely follow the English speaking community and update them about what needs to be done and their deadlines.
All of Wemade Fox's players sent in apps and they don't have any visible connections with the foreign scene.
On March 18 2011 08:38 cheesemaster wrote: I am actually quite releived now that they have released the format information and the fact that they are in talks with korean teams and representatives, a weight has been lifted from my shoulders
They've said they would contact the Korean teams quite some time ago, but it doesn't look like that has happened yet according to Jinro and that is why oGs players' applications were sent in late close to the deadline. I'm not sure if it's just a coincidence that the two Koreans teams that have sent in applications have foreigners (Torch and Liquid players) in their houses who can closely follow the English speaking community and update them about what needs to be done and their deadlines.
All of Wemade Fox's players sent in apps and they don't have any visible connections with the foreign scene.
You're right. I apologize for forgetting about the Fox players. I wonder what happened to Slayers, Prime, MVP, TSL, IM, and fOu guys though.
I can see both sides of the issue and while I will always watch the gsl over the nasl, I believe having 5-10 koreans in the nasl would be fair and would satisfy me. Plus I have no doubt if some koreans are in every matchup with a korean in it will be one of the most viewed games with everyone tuning in to see how the foreigner does against the korean.
Also, when people talk about koreans coming in and taking the money back home to korea would hurt the scene does this apply to europeans too? Cause I'm pretty sure europe has the stronger players than north america, so even with no koreans in it, the chances of europeans taking the money back to europe is very high. Would this also hurt the growth of esports in North America if that happened?
On March 18 2011 08:38 cheesemaster wrote: I am actually quite releived now that they have released the format information and the fact that they are in talks with korean teams and representatives, a weight has been lifted from my shoulders
They've said they would contact the Korean teams quite some time ago, but it doesn't look like that has happened yet according to Jinro and that is why oGs players' applications were sent in late close to the deadline. I'm not sure if it's just a coincidence that the two Koreans teams that have sent in applications have foreigners (Torch and Liquid players) in their houses who can closely follow the English speaking community and update them about what needs to be done and their deadlines.
All of Wemade Fox's players sent in apps and they don't have any visible connections with the foreign scene.
You're right. I apologize for forgetting about the Fox players. I wonder what happened to Slayers, Prime, MVP, TSL, IM, and fOu guys though.
On March 18 2011 09:12 phisku wrote: the way nasl work isn't good, giving invitation is so random.
Well its the first season and instead of a tourney then the league im sure they just want the best out right now. makes sense in a business/viewer way. but its a tough decision and from a player perspective its a good or bad thing depending on who u r
SO the bottom 16 will be out, but they can requalify some how look for yourself you may understand better then me. also good news everyone! they say they are currently in talk with korean team representatives and that koreans will in fact be in the gsl, YIPEE HURRAY
Edit: it looks like there will be 2 1024 man tournaments and 8 players from each will be given a spot in the next season.
Hm, I'm not seeing the second 1024 man tournament. There's only the green one. The purple Next Season Qualifier doesn't explicitly state who will be participating, except for the bottom 16 that are out.
The way I'm seeing it is that these bottom 16 are the only ones to play in the purple NSQ, sort of a last chance type of deal. Think up and down matches. So it'd be only 8 people actually dropping out.
If they've detailed the purple Next Season Qualifier anywhere, please share.
On March 18 2011 05:39 hifriend wrote: It's a 50 man all invite tourny. Does it really matter who they choose? People are going to be pissed either way.
There difference is the chances Koreans have on winning the tournament, Pokebunny, and avilo have a very small chance, Koreans who have been at the top of sc1/wc3 and played in multiple LAN tournaments would have a very good chance of winning. An invite tournament is horrible to begin with, but restricting out the top players in the world so select teams have a greater chance of winning the prize money is a greater injustice.
Pokebunny and avilo wouldn't be in the NASL even without Korean invites.
Why would you focus on such a minute point in my post, fine put in incontrol and artosis, two players who have the slimest chances of winning, but will most likely be in the tournament, my point still stands that Koreans will be taking the prize money from the people creating the tournament, which the people creating the tournament do not want to happen.
I know that it wasn't your main point, but many people here name some unknown or bad players to strengthen their point. There are only 50 places and I could even name 20-30 Europeans who all could place in the top5 in this league. Naama in Dreamhack is a good example, he wasn't even considered to be a top5/top10 terran in Europe before Dreamhack, but he won the tournament and defeated ogstop in the semifinals.
Artosis and Incontrol also don't deserve to be in the league based on their results.
My point is: Even without Koreans there shouldn't be bad players who have no chance to make it to the offline-finals. I'm not against Koreans in the NASL, though. I just don't like to hear about avilo, pokebunny or another random NA top 100 player as an argument for Koreans in the NASL.
On March 18 2011 08:51 dsousa wrote: Does the NASL prize pool end up giving some $$ to all 50 who enter?
Unofficial word is that the 100k will be distributed among the top 16, with a $500 travel stipend added on top for everyone.
[
That would suck if only the top 16 got money. People already complained about gsl being too top heavy in terms of money distribution but at least everyone in it got some money, even if it was just a little bit for the earlier rounds.
On March 18 2011 08:51 dsousa wrote: Does the NASL prize pool end up giving some $$ to all 50 who enter?
Unofficial word is that the 100k will be distributed among the top 16, with a $500 travel stipend added on top for everyone.
[
That would suck if only the top 16 got money. People already complained about gsl being too top heavy in terms of money distribution but at least everyone in it got some money, even if it was just a little bit for the earlier rounds.
Nah, I think that's fine. The first season is all invites, and the league play is all offline, so there's no travel costs or anything to compensate.
Basically, NASL rewards players for being great by accepting their applications for the league, then rewards them for being amazing (and making the Top 15) by handing out money.
NASL has a very different setup from GSL, so there's no need to copy their model.
edit: someone else brought up the notion of giving out small monetary awards every month, like MvP, best comeback, pimpest play, that sort of thing. I like that idea. A small bonus for exceptional play, could be a motivator and something that might lend a bit of extra oomph to games that usually wouldn't matter that much (of which there are always plenty in any league format) - and would lead to more players getting some money for their play.
EPT
(Again big emphasis on the fact they have a big gap on foreigners.)
