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On March 16 2011 11:28 Consolidate wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 11:10 bLuR wrote:
The poll is outrageous, inviting the best koreans "even if it means having few na/eu players" completely destroys the purpose of the NASL. GSL is for all the top koreans, Invite a select few to raise the skill cap of the NASL while advancing esports outside of korea by actually having NA/EU players playing, and being able to show off their skill. So you're saying that Korean players are incapable of contributing to Western E-sports?
He is saying that inviting MC, Nestea or MVP are not only incapable of contributing to it, but that they'll destroy it, becaue of that 100,000$, 70,000 will go to those three players when they take 1st/2nd/3rd, instead of going to helping foreign players/teams stay afloat and profitable.
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On March 16 2011 11:31 echobong wrote:
It's about as 'racist' as it is to let PEOPLE RESIDING IN KOREA (note: not "Koreans") not play as it is racist that the NY Knick's can't participate in the goddamn Western Conference. It's a NORTH AMERICAN StarLeague.
*I* say, don't let anyone that doesn't reside in North American play in the league. SIMPLE AS FUCKING THAT.
That would exclude Huk, as he's been living in Korea for months and will continue to live in Korea for months.
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I think i've been one of the most outspoken members of the "Dont let an unlimited number of Koreans in" side. I never once said dont let any of them. Set a cap...i would suggest a pretty small one (5 players maybe)...and let the rest be foreigners. Its best for the foreigner scene to let them compete in THEIR OWN tournament.
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On March 16 2011 11:31 echobong wrote:
It's about as 'racist' as it is to let PEOPLE RESIDING IN KOREA (note: not "Koreans") not play as it is racist that the NY Knick's can't participate in the goddamn Western Conference. It's a NORTH AMERICAN StarLeague.
*I* say, don't let anyone that doesn't reside in North American play in the league. SIMPLE AS FUCKING THAT.
lets help not grow e-sports
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On March 16 2011 11:29 Ghost-z wrote:
Why does it feel like half of us want a large portion of players from Korea and the others want to ban Korean players?
Honestly, if the NASL is "mostly Korean players" or has "zero Korean players" I will be very disappointed. I want to see some of the great players from all regions. That's why I'm so excited about the NASL. The GSL feels like its Korea and Jinro/Idra/Huk, which doesn't represent the other great players from other regions. But that's only because GSL is a local event. NASL will be online, except for the final, which is why they can showcase great players from all regions.
Yeah, having a balance of players from all the regions would probably be the best way to do it.
Seriously guys, do you seriously think that Koreans are somehow genetically superior to everyone else when it comes to Starcraft? Are you doubting that a foreigner will ever win a major tournament over a Korean? Have some faith.
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If you want to see the lesser player develop just watch smaller tournaments? Why should one of the biggest tournaments in the world not invite people because they're too good, fucking ridiculous if you ask me. There's plenty of smaller tournaments where you can see the up and coming players, streams on teamliquid etc.
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On March 16 2011 11:16 Zeke50100 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 11:10 bLuR wrote:
The poll is outrageous, inviting the best koreans "even if it means having few na/eu players" completely destroys the purpose of the NASL. GSL is for all the top koreans, Invite a select few to raise the skill cap of the NASL while advancing esports outside of korea by actually having NA/EU players playing, and being able to show off their skill. GSL is for anybody, and NASL is for the best. What are you trying to accomplish by having WORSE players? Will people actually care if people show off their skill if they're only showing it off against relatively sub-par players? Honestly, the very idea that you would bar people just because of their ethnicity is ridiculous. Everybody would be destroyed by, say, Jinro, but that's okay because he's not Korean? The purpose of the NASL is not to completely shut out everybody so North America has its own private playground. It's to bring the top players to America, providing an opportunity for people to play in a prestigious tournament without traveling to Korea. If allowing Koreans would totally ruin the point of the North American Star League, what the hell would Europeans be doing in it? Check your own logic, unless you're implying that it should be the "NAEUSL" (probably pronounced "nasal"). You don't foster the growth of e-sports in "foreign" places by shutting everybody else out. You do it by bringing everybody else in. This wouldn't even be an argument if people weren't so engrossed in "racial differences", or associating skill by region.
GSL is for anybody? ... GSL is for people who will move to KOREA for a CHANCE at QUALIFYING.
NASL u can play from your home until Ro16, imagine if the GSL had this format, how many more foreigners would be playing? Everyone.
The NASL is to promote foreigner esports, now im not saying "NO KOREANS" im saying it is for FOREIGNERS. Thats why it is called N A SL, we cant just say oh ya u guys are better than us come here for 2 days for the Ro16, take your money back to korea and we'll see you in 2 months.
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On March 16 2011 11:30 DystopiaX wrote:No, if they were the best I'd be freaking happy. Trying to tell people who disagree with you how they feel is stupid.
Sorry for injecting a bit of humour into the debate. Clearly I dont intend to speak for everyone. Stop being dumb.
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I guess we will see when the TSl gets started, if any foreign players can put a dent on the big Korean names or not.
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On March 16 2011 11:26 Peas wrote:![[image loading]](http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m265/MortisNostre/FUNASL.png)
Idiots constantly claiming what simply isn't going to be true.
On March 16 2011 10:47 Nayl wrote:Why does it mean "very few NA/EU players" if there are an unlimited Korean spots? The poll is worded very poorly. to quote myself earlier Show nested quote +People here assume allowing 'unlimited' amount of Koreans would result in NASL being flooded by Koreans.
The truth is, top Korean will stay in GSL because there are more prestige and money along with it. This is simple economics, if any koreans were to show up to NASL, it's going to be the "lesser" Code S player/Top code A players who has enough sponsorships to be flown to LA.
I feel that they shouldn't even have mentioned that they were considering a "cap" on Korean participation, since they would have relatively smaller pool of Koreans to choose from compared to US players anyway. Putting a small artificial cap like 5/50 is bad for the league. As is now, there are MUCH more player from West to choose from anyways. ST is the only team so far to submit application of any kind. There is obviously going to be more North Americans participating in this league simply for the geographical reasons. Do you think its easier for Koreans to fly out to LA than it is for foreigners to fly to Korea? Heck, Gom even provides foreigners with place to stay! Stop spreading lies like "if unlimited Koreans are allowed, the league will just be flooded with Koreans and Western E-sports won't grow".
NASL isn't going to be another GSL, regardless of the Korean limits. 90% of the people who feel that the limit seems dumb doesn't want a Korean majority in this league either. It just seems to reasonable people that artificial limit on Koreans, which isn't even confirmed, is going to hurt the tournament's legitimacy. Instead they should look at skill/merits/and some popularity of the players.
Again, they have more NA/EU players to choose from anyway. If they pick like 10% of application received from each region, they'd still end up with lots of NA/EU players without risking legitimacy of the tournament.
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I still dont see how dividing sc2 is going to be helpful to anything. Getting the "best" players in the tournament would bring more attention. We all know if they arent in the tournament people will say "well thats because no koreans were in it." If a foreigner wins the NASL it would be the biggest news if koreans were in it. which results in more focus on western esports. Win Win situation.
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On March 16 2011 11:32 LoLAdriankat wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 11:29 Ghost-z wrote:
Why does it feel like half of us want a large portion of players from Korea and the others want to ban Korean players?
Honestly, if the NASL is "mostly Korean players" or has "zero Korean players" I will be very disappointed. I want to see some of the great players from all regions. That's why I'm so excited about the NASL. The GSL feels like its Korea and Jinro/Idra/Huk, which doesn't represent the other great players from other regions. But that's only because GSL is a local event. NASL will be online, except for the final, which is why they can showcase great players from all regions. Yeah, having a balance of players from all the regions would probably be the best way to do it. Seriously guys, do you seriously think that Koreans are somehow genetically superior to everyone else when it comes to Starcraft? Are you doubting that a foreigner will ever win a major tournament over a Korean? Have some faith.
I'm actually firmly against the idea that Koreans are genetically better. It's just that they ARE better, which is why it's wrong to have few Koreans in NASL if we're going for the best of the best (not because they're Korean, but because the top players are Korean; use the transitive property).
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On March 16 2011 11:26 Peas wrote:
Good thing no koreans are fun to watch at all.
Oh wait.
But seriously, I'm torn. I realize that there's more of a possiblity of growth if they put a cap on korean players, but I do think that we should be allowing the most qualified to qualify. To promote an atmosphere where you don't -have- to be as good as the koreans to make a living would make the same image that the BW scene had; foreigners can't beat koreans.
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On March 16 2011 11:32 bLuR wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 11:16 Zeke50100 wrote:On March 16 2011 11:10 bLuR wrote:
The poll is outrageous, inviting the best koreans "even if it means having few na/eu players" completely destroys the purpose of the NASL. GSL is for all the top koreans, Invite a select few to raise the skill cap of the NASL while advancing esports outside of korea by actually having NA/EU players playing, and being able to show off their skill. GSL is for anybody, and NASL is for the best. What are you trying to accomplish by having WORSE players? Will people actually care if people show off their skill if they're only showing it off against relatively sub-par players? Honestly, the very idea that you would bar people just because of their ethnicity is ridiculous. Everybody would be destroyed by, say, Jinro, but that's okay because he's not Korean? The purpose of the NASL is not to completely shut out everybody so North America has its own private playground. It's to bring the top players to America, providing an opportunity for people to play in a prestigious tournament without traveling to Korea. If allowing Koreans would totally ruin the point of the North American Star League, what the hell would Europeans be doing in it? Check your own logic, unless you're implying that it should be the "NAEUSL" (probably pronounced "nasal"). You don't foster the growth of e-sports in "foreign" places by shutting everybody else out. You do it by bringing everybody else in. This wouldn't even be an argument if people weren't so engrossed in "racial differences", or associating skill by region. Im with you dood. Who in their right mind could think that an NASL with 40+ koreans would be a good thing? GSL is for anybody? ... GSL is for people who will move to KOREA for a CHANCE at QUALIFYING. NASL u can play from your home until Ro16, imagine if the GSL had this format, how many more foreigners would be playing? Everyone. The NASL is to promote foreigner esports, now im not saying "NO KOREANS" im saying it is for FOREIGNERS. Thats why it is called N A SL, we cant just say oh ya u guys are better than us come here for 2 days for the Ro16, take your money back to korea and we'll see you in 2 months.
User was warned for this post
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On March 16 2011 11:28 Consolidate wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 11:10 bLuR wrote:
The poll is outrageous, inviting the best koreans "even if it means having few na/eu players" completely destroys the purpose of the NASL. GSL is for all the top koreans, Invite a select few to raise the skill cap of the NASL while advancing esports outside of korea by actually having NA/EU players playing, and being able to show off their skill. So you're saying that Korean players are incapable of contributing to Western E-sports?
So you're saying that if you were a korean you would be trying to help western e-sports instead of Korean e-sports? Lets be realistic, every single foreigner would rather have foreigner e-sports grow instead of korean, if they had to make a choice.
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On March 16 2011 11:33 Nayl wrote:
Idiots constantly claiming what simply isn't going to be true.
MANY people are making the argument that the NASL should be for the best of the best. No if, ands, or buts. That comic was for them. Now shhhh
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On March 16 2011 11:32 bLuR wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 11:16 Zeke50100 wrote:On March 16 2011 11:10 bLuR wrote:
The poll is outrageous, inviting the best koreans "even if it means having few na/eu players" completely destroys the purpose of the NASL. GSL is for all the top koreans, Invite a select few to raise the skill cap of the NASL while advancing esports outside of korea by actually having NA/EU players playing, and being able to show off their skill. GSL is for anybody, and NASL is for the best. What are you trying to accomplish by having WORSE players? Will people actually care if people show off their skill if they're only showing it off against relatively sub-par players? Honestly, the very idea that you would bar people just because of their ethnicity is ridiculous. Everybody would be destroyed by, say, Jinro, but that's okay because he's not Korean? The purpose of the NASL is not to completely shut out everybody so North America has its own private playground. It's to bring the top players to America, providing an opportunity for people to play in a prestigious tournament without traveling to Korea. If allowing Koreans would totally ruin the point of the North American Star League, what the hell would Europeans be doing in it? Check your own logic, unless you're implying that it should be the "NAEUSL" (probably pronounced "nasal"). You don't foster the growth of e-sports in "foreign" places by shutting everybody else out. You do it by bringing everybody else in. This wouldn't even be an argument if people weren't so engrossed in "racial differences", or associating skill by region. GSL is for anybody? ... GSL is for people who will move to KOREA for a CHANCE at QUALIFYING. NASL u can play from your home until Ro16, imagine if the GSL had this format, how many more foreigners would be playing? Everyone. The NASL is to promote foreigner esports, now im not saying "NO KOREANS" im saying it is for FOREIGNERS. Thats why it is called N A SL, we cant just say oh ya u guys are better than us come here for 2 days for the Ro16, take your money back to korea and we'll see you in 2 months.
Well a short 2 day trip to California is very encouraging cause if you had to fly here, find a place to stay and practice for the entire tournament like you would for gsl than the interest wouldn't be as high like it is from the korean players right now.
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On March 16 2011 11:32 bLuR wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 11:16 Zeke50100 wrote:On March 16 2011 11:10 bLuR wrote:
The poll is outrageous, inviting the best koreans "even if it means having few na/eu players" completely destroys the purpose of the NASL. GSL is for all the top koreans, Invite a select few to raise the skill cap of the NASL while advancing esports outside of korea by actually having NA/EU players playing, and being able to show off their skill. GSL is for anybody, and NASL is for the best. What are you trying to accomplish by having WORSE players? Will people actually care if people show off their skill if they're only showing it off against relatively sub-par players? Honestly, the very idea that you would bar people just because of their ethnicity is ridiculous. Everybody would be destroyed by, say, Jinro, but that's okay because he's not Korean? The purpose of the NASL is not to completely shut out everybody so North America has its own private playground. It's to bring the top players to America, providing an opportunity for people to play in a prestigious tournament without traveling to Korea. If allowing Koreans would totally ruin the point of the North American Star League, what the hell would Europeans be doing in it? Check your own logic, unless you're implying that it should be the "NAEUSL" (probably pronounced "nasal"). You don't foster the growth of e-sports in "foreign" places by shutting everybody else out. You do it by bringing everybody else in. This wouldn't even be an argument if people weren't so engrossed in "racial differences", or associating skill by region. GSL is for anybody? ... GSL is for people who will move to KOREA for a CHANCE at QUALIFYING. NASL u can play from your home until Ro16, imagine if the GSL had this format, how many more foreigners would be playing? Everyone. The NASL is to promote foreigner esports, now im not saying "NO KOREANS" im saying it is for FOREIGNERS. Thats why it is called N A SL, we cant just say oh ya u guys are better than us come here for 2 days for the Ro16, take your money back to korea and we'll see you in 2 months.
I'm pretty sure 'FOR FOREIGNERS' has the implication of 'NO KOREANS', so I don't see your point of differentiation.
Truth be told, I think a lot of people are operating under the assumption that western e-sports hasn't taken off because 'Asians' have stolen all of the money and attention. That's complete and utter bullshit.
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On March 16 2011 11:37 Peas wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 11:33 Nayl wrote:
Idiots constantly claiming what simply isn't going to be true. MANY people are making the argument that the NASL should be for the best of the best. No if, ands, or buts. That comic was for them. Now shhhh
Oh, so now your arguments are supposed to prove a point, but are for "fun" when people refute the point made in them? Make up your mind and stop putting down people who disagree with you.
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EPT
