EPTStorm were the only defense against heavy bio... Great... Good job blizz. "How to ruin a game, by dummies"
A Bit of Simple Khaydarin Amulet Math - Page 2
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Qzy
Denmark1121 Posts
Storm were the only defense against heavy bio... Great... Good job blizz. "How to ruin a game, by dummies" | ||
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TheHumanSensation
Canada1210 Posts
I agree with Jinro, in that there should be a mid-way energy upgrade. Something that allows for Protoss players not to warp in more instant-storms whenever they need, but to allow them to properly predict the number of storms they'll need for a battle or so. In 30 seconds of game time, a unit can recover 16.875 energy units. If 30 seconds seems like a reasonable time to have to wait for storm, (which it does sounds like, to me) then an upgrade that boosts HT's to 58 energy (perhaps 60, to make it even) wouldn't be out of the question as long as it was cheaper and faster to research (if not a unique innate energy count, even). | ||
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IreScath
Canada521 Posts
I do think toss late game as it currently is, most likely is slightly OP... However I don't think that's routed in HT, and more colo/VR PvZ and Colo/HT PvT. Many top players have actually stopped getting amulet all together and instead just rely on faster reaction times, drop scouting and/or cannons.. as well as DT warp-ins. So I really don't even think this is going to hurt top protoss too much. I would tho like to see max energy tech put in its place tho. What I feel is the real issue is the Collosus, which has an effect on the perceived "imbalance" in each match-up (and actually is a big part of PvP problems, so really we can say that the collosus is part of , if not the only, cause of balance issues in every match-up) | ||
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Beedon
United States12 Posts
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XothermeK
United Arab Emirates245 Posts
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Th1rdEye
United States1074 Posts
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Adebisi
Canada1637 Posts
On February 26 2011 16:44 B00ts wrote: Many top players have actually stopped getting amulet all together and instead just rely on faster reaction times, drop scouting and/or cannons.. as well as DT warp-ins. Can you name some? I'm just highly skeptical of this, amulet is ridiculously good for warp prism harassment play, using amulet for defending drops is only one part of what makes amulet so good (and apparently overpowered to the point that blizzard sees they should remove it from the game). From basically every game I've observed of any top player, not getting the amulet upgrade if you're going for a decent amount of HTs, is seen as pretty similar to not getting thermal lance while going Collosus. I really like the idea Jinro gave of 63 energy upgrade. | ||
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Torpedo.Vegas
United States1890 Posts
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IreScath
Canada521 Posts
On February 26 2011 16:50 Adebisi wrote: Can you name some? I'm just highly skeptical of this, amulet is ridiculously good for warp prism harassment play, using amulet for defending drops is only one part of what makes amulet so good (and apparently overpowered to the point that blizzard sees they should remove it from the game). From basically every game I've observed of any top player, not getting the amulet upgrade if you're going for a decent amount of HTs, is seen as pretty similar to not getting thermal lance while going Collosus. I really like the idea Jinro gave of 63 energy upgrade. I literally just heard artosis in the GSL games just now say that he's stopped getting it when he plays toss... tasteless agreed.. Then he mentioned something about it really not being a big deal the way the match up plays out now. I'm like mid-high diamond so I tend to differ to people like that when it comes to those type of statements rather than my limited judgement. But I have noticed DT's get used a lot more as well. You also cant really compare the lance upgrade to amulet, as teh amulet helps with drops yes, but in terms of having them in your main ball or for pushes... its 44 game time seconds (32 real seconds)... not the bigest deal. Lance effects Collosus at all times, especially with FF support. You just can't compare the upgrades. | ||
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Traveler
United States451 Posts
On February 26 2011 16:50 stickyickynugz wrote: anyone think about how zealots vs roach will be affectred now? It won't be really, the charge against roaches usually landed because roaches weren't that fast, this is going to change it more versus stimmed terran bio as marauders would be able to kite zealots despite charge, and stimmed marines could run and kill them before they reaches the marines... roaches don't do enough dps to kill zealots, and aren't fast enough to outrun them. Anyways, I think the amulet upgrade should have been retained, but changed to 70 or 65 energy, eliminating the defensive storming against late game drops/zergling play, while retaining the reinforcing ability against terran after EMPs... This way it actually forces the protoss to commit to defending bases, rather than throwing up a few cannons per base, and then relying on those + insta-storm to kill whatever is attacking it (mutalisks/zerglings/drops). All the other races have to use their main army somewhat to defend those big harasses, so why should protoss receive that huge late game advantage of being able to defend anywhere at anytime? | ||
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IreScath
Canada521 Posts
HT's can steal energy from other HT's. so to stop a drop you need 2 instead of just 1. make it a cheap upgrade at the archives if you want. | ||
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eviltomahawk
United States11135 Posts
However, I'm sure Blizzard will consider reverting their decision if the community has a strong enough feedback (lol) against their decision. It's disappointing to see Blizzard removing so many Protoss upgrades, especially since the Templar Archives and Fleet Beacon have turned from a cornucopia of upgrades in BW to having only a paltry set of upgrades in SC2. On the other hand, we might be seeing more BW-esque, traditional storm drops instead of templar warp-ins. Storm drops are so powerful that I expect players to still find ways of working them into their plays, even with the upgrade removed. | ||
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Whiplash
United States2928 Posts
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IreScath
Canada521 Posts
On February 26 2011 17:07 Whiplash wrote: I'm sorry but tasteless and artosis are wrong if they think that not getting khaydarin amulet is not useful late game. Fast reflexes and being able to cast storm as soon as a templar is out is incredibly useful and essential to a templar based army late game. I'm sure they were talking more about mid game and if templar are teh first tech route.. obviously once your upgrades are nearing max... you're on 3-5 bases and have colo's out or maybe even air.. you're obviously going to want it. | ||
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JJoNeEightY
United States509 Posts
On February 26 2011 17:10 B00ts wrote: I'm sure they were talking more about mid game and if templar are teh first tech route.. obviously once your upgrades are nearing max... you're on 3-5 bases and have colo's out or maybe even air.. you're obviously going to want it. I believe Artosis said that he has stopped getting in his practice games. What I took away from this was that he doesn't want to rely on something that he knows isn't going to be around for much longer, not that it isn't an amazing upgrade. | ||
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DarkRise
1644 Posts
Phoenix? but thors do splash damage Can protoss leave his/her base w/o getting harrass? Yes you can leave a few stalkers but at what cost? You can still wrap in but will not be cost effective with stimmed marauders kiting Also HT will be useless unit i think, say you engage a terran army then got 1 emp into clump of HTs after accumulating enough energy for storm, GG. | ||
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IreScath
Canada521 Posts
We're beating a dead horse here tho... My original point was I feel like a change to Colosus would have been more prudent, and that I feel like this HT change might not be as big a deal as people think. Keep in mind too.. It's just PTR, maybe it gets changed and then all this chatter was pointless...lol | ||
Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
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IreScath
Canada521 Posts
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Noveson
United States1 Post
HT's were already difficult to get to, and Robo was already overwhelming the most picked tech route. All this change is going to accomplish is to force players to use one specific tech route(which is hard countered by easily massed vikings). The time investment to actually have a useful HT is much too long. | ||
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