|
On February 26 2011 16:06 gdalam wrote:
The fact is that the only efficient ways to deal with MM are HTs and Colossi. Colossi are too expensive to just have sitting around your bases to deal with any drops, so HTs are our only real solution to constant Terran harassment. While keeping HTs spread around suspected drop points is doable, it's a bit extreme.
One issue that I haven't seen addressed yet is the movement speed of HTs. The reason that the Amulet is so essential to the Protoss army is that HTs are absurdly slow. We need to be able to warp in our HTs because it just takes too long to run them there.
And on another note, while instant warp ins to storm a mineral line may be a bit much, it really is the only form of Protoss harassment (barring DTs which is countered by a mere turret). It's as difficult for Protoss to keep an eye out for incoming Terran harassment as it is for Terran to watch for HTs at their mineral lines (it's just more forgiving). Why should Terran be immune to keeping an eye out on the minimap?
Of course, none of this addresses the fact that now only a handful of EMPs will completely negate the entire Templar tech tree, as it'll take minutes to be able to Storm after you're EMP'd.
perfectly well stated only thing i could add to this to make everyone happy is for storm not to be a research ghost do not have to research EMP. Sounds like an even trade to me. he is right about harassment, toss has none!
this is a bummer too because I have wanted to ''TRY'' to win games with out colossi HT are a lot more flexible then colossi.
|
It was completely broken to warp in a templar anywhere on the map and insta storm. I agree with Jinro taking it away completely is a little crazy however the fact remains it's OP to warp in anywhere and insta cast. It needs to be either removed like it is or not as much of an energy buff. Something has to be done.
|
8751 Posts
On February 28 2011 07:28 Sephiros wrote:
This change IS absolutely correct and if you think otherwise it's because your skill cap is too low to understand the complex mechanics of balance at high level play.
Oh, TL.net, don't ever change...
|
I've tried a few games just not using templar since I'm kind of unused to colossus based openings. Defending drops is really hard, especially since you're also going to have to less gateways with colossus based opening. I think even without amulet templar is still going to be the tech path of choice, feedback on dropping medivacs is still game-winning. I think the new strategy is going to involve getting templar, taking a 3rd, defending, and then getting colossi.
|
On February 28 2011 07:23 ki11z0ne wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 16:06 gdalam wrote:
The fact is that the only efficient ways to deal with MM are HTs and Colossi. Colossi are too expensive to just have sitting around your bases to deal with any drops, so HTs are our only real solution to constant Terran harassment. While keeping HTs spread around suspected drop points is doable, it's a bit extreme.
One issue that I haven't seen addressed yet is the movement speed of HTs. The reason that the Amulet is so essential to the Protoss army is that HTs are absurdly slow. We need to be able to warp in our HTs because it just takes too long to run them there.
And on another note, while instant warp ins to storm a mineral line may be a bit much, it really is the only form of Protoss harassment (barring DTs which is countered by a mere turret). It's as difficult for Protoss to keep an eye out for incoming Terran harassment as it is for Terran to watch for HTs at their mineral lines (it's just more forgiving). Why should Terran be immune to keeping an eye out on the minimap?
Of course, none of this addresses the fact that now only a handful of EMPs will completely negate the entire Templar tech tree, as it'll take minutes to be able to Storm after you're EMP'd. perfectly well stated only thing i could add to this to make everyone happy is for storm not to be a research ghost do not have to research EMP. Sounds like an even trade to me. he is right about harassment, toss has none! this is a bummer too because I have wanted to ''TRY'' to win games with out colossi HT are a lot more flexible then colossi.
im tired of argueing around in these balance threads so ill just point out one thing.
what does this have to do with storming min lines? you realize the warp prism can load units? how about just loading a templar with energy up and dropping it?
are people really that spoiled by easy mechanics that they forget what their units do or do you guys just complain before thinking for a second how to adapt?
|
On February 28 2011 07:31 Liquid`Tyler wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2011 07:28 Sephiros wrote:
This change IS absolutely correct and if you think otherwise it's because your skill cap is too low to understand the complex mechanics of balance at high level play. Oh, TL.net, don't ever change...
The best part is when he says "Good Day, sir" at the end. Hahahahaha
|
It seems blizz only wants collosi to be used, I personally loved to see HT's even though we never see them much, like jinro said at lease make the starting energy a bit more because ur gonna need HT's on the battlefield well before any engagment which will render them useless to warp in
|
Wait wait, so, If i'm actually high enough level to make a Warp Prism, and actually fly it to one of your expos without getting shot down. After I go into powering mode and wap in 3 High Templar. You have 44.4 Seconds to
A. EMP Stim 1a entire Protoss Army dead, games over. so what if you lose 20 SCV
B. Send 1 Marine and have enough DPS to kill all 3 HT without stimming before 44.4 second is there.
C. Kill the HT with SCV's cause even that would work in 44.4 seconds
D. do nothing for 44.4 seconds and when psi storm is actually casted maybe move the SCV cause Psi storm can't instantly kill 30 probes like blue flame hellions can.
90% of top level players think this change is a joke. I wonder why.
|
On February 28 2011 07:31 Liquid`Tyler wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2011 07:28 Sephiros wrote:
This change IS absolutely correct and if you think otherwise it's because your skill cap is too low to understand the complex mechanics of balance at high level play. Oh, TL.net, don't ever change...
Hahahahaha Tyler your a good sport with all of this.
|
I personally would have preferred a Nerf to Warp Gates as opposed to High Templars/Khaydarin Amulet. They don't get nearly enough usage imo, plus they already nerfed storm to begin with. Thirty seconds extra on stimpack research, but then they turn around and nerf both other races casters significantly. I thought that was the reasoning behind the HT trade-off Blizzard implemented. A nerf to storm to compensate for being able to warp in an instant HT to defend an expo/engagement/etc.
|
On February 28 2011 07:45 NearPerfection wrote:
Wait wait, so, If i'm actually high enough level to make a Warp Prism, and actually fly it to one of your expos without getting shot down. After I go into powering mode and wap in 3 High Templar. You have 44.4 Seconds to
A. EMP Stim 1a entire Protoss Army dead, games over. so what if you lose 20 SCV
B. Send 1 Marine and have enough DPS to kill all 3 HT without stimming before 44.4 second is there.
C. Kill the HT with SCV's cause even that would work in 44.4 seconds
90% of top level players think this change is a joke. I wonder why.
you can drop them you dumbass wtf
You dont need to warp them in. ITS A WARP PRISM NOT JUST A FLOATING PYLON.
|
On February 28 2011 07:47 Sadist wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2011 07:45 NearPerfection wrote:
Wait wait, so, If i'm actually high enough level to make a Warp Prism, and actually fly it to one of your expos without getting shot down. After I go into powering mode and wap in 3 High Templar. You have 44.4 Seconds to
A. EMP Stim 1a entire Protoss Army dead, games over. so what if you lose 20 SCV
B. Send 1 Marine and have enough DPS to kill all 3 HT without stimming before 44.4 second is there.
C. Kill the HT with SCV's cause even that would work in 44.4 seconds
90% of top level players think this change is a joke. I wonder why. you can drop them you dumbass wtf You dont need to warp them in. ITS A WARP PRISM NOT JUST A FLOATING PYLON.
I play you on ladder get more skill and stop being so baised.
|
On February 28 2011 07:51 NearPerfection wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2011 07:47 Sadist wrote:On February 28 2011 07:45 NearPerfection wrote:
Wait wait, so, If i'm actually high enough level to make a Warp Prism, and actually fly it to one of your expos without getting shot down. After I go into powering mode and wap in 3 High Templar. You have 44.4 Seconds to
A. EMP Stim 1a entire Protoss Army dead, games over. so what if you lose 20 SCV
B. Send 1 Marine and have enough DPS to kill all 3 HT without stimming before 44.4 second is there.
C. Kill the HT with SCV's cause even that would work in 44.4 seconds
90% of top level players think this change is a joke. I wonder why. you can drop them you dumbass wtf You dont need to warp them in. ITS A WARP PRISM NOT JUST A FLOATING PYLON. I play you on ladder get more skill and stop being so baised.
I think you have me confused with someone else, and besides I dont give a shit about this from a terrans perspective anyway because I mech and Templars dont do shit against me =) You still are an idiot for not realizing you can drop templars with your warp prism rofl
|
your from clan tQ aren't you? Back up your claims with facts, and even then you don't play at a high enough skill level to say anything about balance. No shit you can load up a 200 mineral warp prism with 150 minerals 450 gas before amulet is finished, I do it all the time.
But to think I should have the foresight to know exactly when your about to attack or your vikings are not patrolling makes this game alot more random Herp Derp i lost the game cause my 350/450 resource harassment took 120 damage. Herp Derp.
Harassing before khadarin amulet is very risky, as it is, to say that Terran should be that heavily rewarded at every single stage of the game for taking out a warp prism is just stupid talk.
|
On February 28 2011 07:58 NearPerfection wrote:
your from clan tQ aren't you? Back up your claims with facts, and even then you don't play at a high enough skill level to say anything about balance. No shit you can load up a 200 mineral warp prism with 150 minerals 450 gas before amulet is finished, I do it all the time.
But to think I should have the foresight to know exactly when your about to attack or your vikings are not patrolling makes this game alot more random Herp Derp i lost the game cause my 350/450 resource harassment took 120 damage. Herp Derp.
Harassing before khadarin amulet is very risky, as it is, to say that Terran should be that heavily rewarded at every single stage of the game for taking out a warp prism is just stupid talk.
I know its risky, but you made it sound as if it were your only option, you can load it up and go harass, and you know nothing about my skill level especially my tvp =). What skill level do I need to be at to critique balance or great protoss player. What skill level are you at? What is YOUR ID on NA?
Anyway, this thread isnt about us but if youd gladly PM me your ID we can continue it.
edit OHHHHHHHH
You are Perfect.
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/dLkg6.jpg)
:|
|
On February 28 2011 08:18 Sadist wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2011 07:58 NearPerfection wrote:
your from clan tQ aren't you? Back up your claims with facts, and even then you don't play at a high enough skill level to say anything about balance. No shit you can load up a 200 mineral warp prism with 150 minerals 450 gas before amulet is finished, I do it all the time.
But to think I should have the foresight to know exactly when your about to attack or your vikings are not patrolling makes this game alot more random Herp Derp i lost the game cause my 350/450 resource harassment took 120 damage. Herp Derp.
Harassing before khadarin amulet is very risky, as it is, to say that Terran should be that heavily rewarded at every single stage of the game for taking out a warp prism is just stupid talk. I know its risky, but you made it sound as if it were your only option, you can load it up and go harass, and you know nothing about my skill level especially my tvp =). What skill level do I need to be at to critique balance or great protoss player. What skill level are you at? What is YOUR ID on NA? Anyway, this thread isnt about us but if youd gladly PM me your ID we can continue it.
I don't want to spend more time unproductively, just making fun the OP, Even if Khadarian amulet gave 73 energy on warp in instead of 75 its still a bad change. April fools joke over a month early.
|
Guys you don't understand. Khaydarin amulet lets you warp in INSTANT STORMS, ANYWHERE ON THE MAP, FOR FREE, INSTANTLY! This one time, I was playing tvp and a guy researched it. He then warped in 200/200 food of templars and covered the ENTIRE MAP (except for his main and nat) with storms. All of my worker lines died and so did my WHOLE ARMY. I was left with 0/200, never had a chance to EMP, and he proceeded to laugh at me and make fun of my mom's colon cancer. I forgot to save the replay though. I'm glad they made this change, it was getting out of hand. If you don't support this change you are a rapist and have no higher than 83 IQ.
+ Show Spoiler +Phoenix openings and phoenix+colossus+blink stalker play hasn't been fully explored, maybe that will be the substitute at high levels. At sub-masters nobody really drops intelligently and colossus+gateway units vs a terran that never drops or does so poorly make it much easier for toss. Every time I see phoenix+colossus in GSL they go way overboard in phoenixes, don't get enough stalkers, and get crushed by mass viking+marauder though, I don't know how this will turn out.
|
44 seconds is an eternity in game time to wait for the first storm. Bio will own again and matchup diversity will be diminished. Some sort of nerf is needed for late game but this is too much.
|
As a masters level toss, i'm switching to terran
my whole pvt was based around storm and this completely deters me from going HT instead of colossus.. but I think colossei are pretty terrible in pvt comparably. It's unfortunate that the gold level complaining on the blizzard terran forums forced them to make this decision because IMO it's completely gamebreaking. No longer can I deal with double drops in the late game that are meant to snipe nexus's. Just because the diamond terran on the blizzard forums aren't smart enough to use ghosts doesn't justify this huge nerf.
|
Blizzard have a system they use when they want to nerf or buff something. They roll a dice.If they get a 3 or lower,it's a nerf. 5 or higher it's a buff.
"HT got nerfed because storm harassment is op!"
Yes and blue flame hellion/banshee costs more and does less damage /trollface.
Doesn't EMP do more damage than storm(to protoss units) and its instant and also counters HT storm?
Even Fungal does more dps now I think, and infestors can cast it without waiting.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
