EPTIs this a silly concern?
[Q&A] Official NASL Thread - Page 26
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Jake.Demetrio
United States35 Posts
Is this a silly concern? | ||
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Phenny
Australia1435 Posts
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aru
183 Posts
On February 23 2011 21:41 jaearess wrote: Lots of assumptions there. What makes Koreans so special that they're clearly the most skilled, the best competition? As Xeris pointed out above, in tournaments with a good mixture of foreigners and Koreans, the Koreans haven't come out on top. The assumption seems to be: "the best BW players are Korean, the best BW tournaments were in Korea, therefore the best SC2 players and tournaments are going to be in Korea. Ignore all evidence to the contrary." The fact that Idra is moving back to play in the NASL already tells you it's going to have very good--even the best--competitors in the world. And how many GSLs (or other major SC2 tournaments, for that matter) has Boxer won, again? I shall quote the relevant portions of Xeris' post. On February 23 2011 19:09 Xeris wrote: - Koreans were beaten by foreigners at Blizzcon - Koreans couldn't even make top 3 at Dreamhack - Idra & Jinro repeatedly beat Koreans in the GSL (the only foreigners in Code S have been successful repeatedly). [...] Starcraft isn't a game where you can just play on a whim at a high level. If you just moved to Korea from your home and have to adjust quickly to a completely different way of life, there's no way you're going to compete well against players who live & practice in a Korean environment. -A Korean did win Blizzcon, his name was NexGenius. -The Koreans at Dreamhack were people who failed to qualify for GSL that season. (Inca got eliminated by Top at Dreamhack) -Idra and Jinro also repeatedly got beaten by Koreans, seeing as none of them are winners. Not even top 3--after many tries! Also, you bring up a point about adjusting to environments, but why don't you think that applies to the Koreans at those oversea competitions either? Also, don't see how Ret is a fair comparison considering he has lived in Korea before. The fact that Idra is moving back to play in the NASL tells me that he thinks he'll make more money that way, even though the prize pool is less, which implies that the competition will be easier. Either that or EG forced him to do it due to his contract. On February 23 2011 22:35 jaearess wrote: And, yes, I say there are plenty of foreigners (not just NA/EU, but other Asian countries and SA) who are better than plenty of Code S players. Witness the fact that Jinro and Idra didn't dominate every foreigner tournament they've competed in, yet they consistently place high in the GSL. How about TOP and Inca failing to make it to the finals (and TOP losing in the consolation finals) in Dreamhack? You may notice that in the next competition that TOP and Naama and Mana were in (Kaspersky Invitational), TOP won while Naama and Mana weren't even in top 3, even though they got first and second at Dreamhack respectively. | ||
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MechaCthulhu
United States136 Posts
On February 23 2011 23:06 aru wrote: -Idra and Jinro also repeatedly got beaten by Koreans, seeing as none of them are winners. Not even top 3--after many tries! Also, how many Koreans that are currently in Code S have placed as consistently has Jinro and Idra? There might be a handful, but considering foreigners have made up 1/16 of Code S so far (1/32 now), having all competing foreigners make it to the Ro16, even having one make it to the Ro4 is pretty damn impressive, considering Koreans apparently outclass foreigners by such a large margin that any league that isn't mostly filled with Koreans is supposedly an amateur league. Edit: One other thing: Jinro was the one who knocked Idra out of the last GSL. Pretty similar to TOP knocking out Inca, eh? | ||
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aru
183 Posts
On February 23 2011 23:19 jaearess wrote: Err, Jinro has got second in a GSL 3... Also, how many Koreans that are currently in Code S haven't placed as consistently has Jinro and Idra? There might be a handful, but considering foreigners have made up 1/16 of Code S so far (1/32 now), having all competing foreigners make it to the Ro16, even having one make it to the Ro2 is pretty damn impressive, considering Koreans apparently outclass foreigners by such a large margin that any league that isn't mostly filled with Koreans is supposedly an amateur league. No, he lost to Iron in the ro4 in GSL3. | ||
JBright
Vancouver14381 Posts
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RationalGaze
United Kingdom121 Posts
 . When you take into account travel time, people will be potentially missing 2 hours of the stream. | ||
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MechaCthulhu
United States136 Posts
On February 23 2011 23:24 aru wrote: No, he lost to Iron in the ro4 in GSL3. Ah, you are certainly right. For some reason I was thinking he made it to the finals because he faced the eventual champion. | ||
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Mithriel
Netherlands2969 Posts
Personally can't wait to see the player line up for first season and ill definatly get the stream! | ||
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infinity2k9
United Kingdom2397 Posts
On February 23 2011 20:40 Bubulefou wrote: With only charismatic english-speaking american players Uh which ones are those then? Firebathero is more charismatic than any American player and we can't even understand what he's saying. Even so who cares, it should be about the BEST players playing against each other. What's this bullshit about storylines even mentioned for? Starcraft is a strategy game like Chess, yet people are making it sound like fucking WWE. It's ridiculous really. | ||
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NoobSkills
United States1601 Posts
You say neither won 3rd, but when you lose in the semi's there is a tie 3+4 and GSL doesn't have a pay difference, so neither plays the other to decide a "third" place. Edit: Idra is most likely moving back because it just makes sense. Money: Similar or better since it doesn't take him a month to complete a tournament. Scene: Better for him since he won't be the foreigner Practice: Better since EG seems to be migrating towards Cali Idra was in Korea because that WAS the spot he is not moving away because he doesn't think he couldn't win a GSL, rather that the US scene would benefit him much more especially being on an American team with American sponsors. Edit2: I believe there are a select few foreigners that practice enough to do well at a GSL, but the Koreans are not inherently starcraft savants. They practice harder and the team structure is much more developed there. Also it is quite easy to get your team together there because Korea is the size of a single state in the US or a small country in Europe. With teams being able to actually help each other and hence having a larger driving force making your practice it does not surprise me that more koreans are in fact better. When the US/Euros practice in a house with teammates and actually practice as the Koreans do the gap between foreign and Korean gamers will continually close until it no longer exists. | ||
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shadymmj
1906 Posts
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Krehlmar
Sweden1149 Posts
1) Games cast LIVE, but broadcast afterwards! Why? That's fucked up, that ruins alot of the feeling for me... | ||
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goiflin
Canada1218 Posts
You're going to possibly put a cap on koreans, does this mean you may put a cap on europeans, if too many apply and are able to participate? Since you're going to put a cap on the amount of people that are allowed from each team, that would mean that europeans are going to have a very high representation at the tournament, because as far as I know, there's alot more teams in europe than in NA. I could be entirely wrong though. I understand your intentions to make sure you're different from the GSL, but if Europeans are completely monopolizing all the slots in the tournament, I'd wonder why you're not holding this in Sweden instead of the US. | ||
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Phenny
Australia1435 Posts
On February 23 2011 23:35 Krehlmar wrote: Why? That's fucked up, that ruins alot of the feeling for me... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=195486¤tpage=23#458 This thread is kind of messy but that should answer your question. | ||
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DND_Enkil
Sweden598 Posts
First Question: From what i have been able to tell this is essentially a 50-man invitational tournament plus one wild spot. You do state that "Our aim is to make SC2 a truly professional sport." - for the long run i am sure you agree that this statement conflicts pretty hard with this being an invitational. You have said that the top 4 players from the Open tournament will be seeded into the next season main league, and that the bottom four players in the league will be dropped out. First i reacted with this being the bottom four players, when you have five groups in the league, how will you determine who of the bottom five players will get to remain? Second i realised this was only a potential 8% turnover of the total players, this while a tournament such as GSL that has a potential (if all code A players who gets the chance wins thier up/down matches) turnover of 25% for code S and even they have recived critisism that it is way to hard to bust into code S. Are you taking this into acocunt and will you aim for a competetive league where the players remain/get accepted into the main league based on skill through qualifications and up/down-matches, rather than popularity, once you have gotten a nice foundation of good proffesional players? Second Question: I realize you will not be posting any definite numbers now, but when thinking about the prize pool distribution will it be more like GSL Season one (extremely top heavy) or like the recent GSL's (less % to the winner, more for players just making top16)? | ||
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NoobSkills
United States1601 Posts
On February 23 2011 23:39 goiflin wrote: I'm totally excited for this league, but I did have one question; You're going to possibly put a cap on koreans, does this mean you may put a cap on europeans, if too many apply and are able to participate? Since you're going to put a cap on the amount of people that are allowed from each team, that would mean that europeans are going to have a very high representation at the tournament, because as far as I know, there's alot more teams in europe than in NA. I could be entirely wrong though. Similar amount of decent to good teams though perhaps the more skilled are on your Europe servers. I do believe the cap for koreans is because of the LAG that they will experience playing on the NA server. | ||
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MechaCthulhu
United States136 Posts
On February 23 2011 23:35 Krehlmar wrote: Why? That's fucked up, that ruins alot of the feeling for me... To summarize: 1) Allows them to have better production values 2) Allows them to cut out waiting for players, Internet problems, etc. 3) Allows players in non-American timezones to play their games at a reasonable time, while keeping a consistent broadcasting schedule. All game results will be unknown to the majority of people (only the players and NASL staff would know) until the first broadcast of the games, right down to match history of the players (playing using anonymous accounts from Blizzard or something similar.) The major difference is that your prays for your favorite player to win won't matter while you're watching the game... On the other hand, those don't matter even if you are watching a game live. | ||
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KDN
Norway96 Posts
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RationalGaze
United Kingdom121 Posts
On February 23 2011 23:44 KDN wrote: There might be some huge stuff going on in Europe that hasn't been announced yet as well.. Watched a european stream today where it was mentioned that NASL might not be that interesting.. I wonder if it's linked to the secret MLG stuff Sundance talked about a few weeks ago. He mentioned a trip to Europe. | ||
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