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Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
The King of the Beta games weren't live, had a shitload of hiccups, were casted at like 3 in the morning for no good damn reason, but it was still fun to watch because of the casters and the players. There's a ton of factors that determine whether something is high quality or worthwhile. Sheesh. Give these guys a chance. | ||
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Buddhist
United States658 Posts
On February 23 2011 18:57 oursblanc wrote: The latest TL Open had more viewers than 95% of SC2 tournaments, though. That doesn't say much, frankly. What I'm really wondering is why players need to be part of a team to play. It really makes no sense at all. You can still split players of each team participating into separate "divisions" or w/e, without requiring everyone be part of a team. Everyone listening to the SOTG when russel was asked this question basically unanimously went "lolwat" at his response. He compared SC2 (a 1v1 game) to the NBA (a team game), saying basketball (a team game) players who aren't part of a team shouldn't be complaining to the NBA that they can't play... even though SC2 isn't a team game. Quite mind boggling! | ||
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m3rciless
United States1476 Posts
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oursblanc
Canada1450 Posts
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Buddhist
United States658 Posts
On February 23 2011 19:01 Defacer wrote: Since when did "Live" = good, anyway? King of the Beta wasn't live, had a shitload of hiccups, aired at like 3 in the morning for no good damn reason, but was still fun to watch because of the casters and the players. There's a ton of factors that determine whether something is high quality or worthwhile. Sheesh. Give these guys a chance. Maybe if NASL promised Day9, people would care less. Gretorp and InControl aren't horrible, but they are no Tastosis :/ no offense to them. Point is, Day9 on a good day, or Tastosis in general, can turn paint drying into a fun experience (because they are comedians). | ||
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applejuice
307 Posts
After the amount of flak you've already taken on this, maybe it's time to realize that your approach to this point has not been successful. Stop beating the dead horse acting like the community is just full of stupid people. If you stand behind your product, and you're not trying to hide anything, then this should be a non-issue. The way it reads in the OP is rather defensive. My question: Why are you restricting the number of Koreans who can play? Is there a similar quota on Europeans and/or Mexicans? | ||
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Doraemon.doraemon
United States335 Posts
I just want to say... great job so far and do whatever you guys want to do while taking in some good constructive criticism... I for one will buy the ticket just to support esport in the west, we can't beat korea in one day, one year, but definitely possible in the long run, this is a start and we need to support it I personally can't relate to these korean players at all... I think NASL is going to try to sell the player's personality/story as a product in addition to their play and skills... might work... we'll see... | ||
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Lutto
Sweden198 Posts
Will you always pick an US player before EU? or how does the league stands on taking in europeans? like sjow, morrow, nani etc ? (is this meant to be 80% USA 20%rest or is it nothing like that?) | ||
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Xeris
Iran17695 Posts
On February 23 2011 19:02 m3rciless wrote: The stance on koreans participating is somewhat worrying to me. By not allowing koreans in, or making it difficult for them to participate, I think there will increasingly be the sense that NASL is the AHL to GSL's NHL. Even if the foreigners are competitive with the best koreans, which im sure some will be, without head to head confrontation this reputation will be hard to shake. Is this something the league has considered or sees a legitimate concern? The GSL makes it very difficult for foreigners to compete in it, I don't really see the difference. And why would we just assume that the GSL is synonymous to the NHL? Again, if we actually look at neutral tournaments that have had Koreans & Foreigners playing in it, we've seen that: a) Koreans are not invincible b) Foreigners might actually be as good or better than MOST Koreans. - Koreans were beaten by foreigners at Blizzcon - Koreans couldn't even make top 3 at Dreamhack - Idra & Jinro repeatedly beat Koreans in the GSL (the only foreigners in Code S have been successful repeatedly). Again. People misrepresent the strength of Koreans. They don't realize that it's really difficult for a foreigner to just be immediately successful in Korea. Starcraft isn't a game where you can just play on a whim at a high level. If you just moved to Korea from your home and have to adjust quickly to a completely different way of life, there's no way you're going to compete well against players who live & practice in a Korean environment. Was Jinro successful in GSL 1 and 2? Nope... he wasn't used to Korea yet. How about IdrA? He did nothing for 1 year in Korea as he was getting used to the lifestyle. Once Jinro had a few months to acclimate himself to the lifestyle, he's consistently a top 5 player in Korea. IdrA is also one of the top players in Korea. So: 2 of the 2 foreigners who have been in Korea for an extended period of time have been hugely successful in GSL. That's a 100% success rate. Give any top foreigner 3-4 months and I can guarantee they will be in Code S and successful. Just watch how Ret and HuK will perform in the next GSL (this season they probably won't do so well, but I can almost guarantee they will dominate next season). | ||
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Enzyme
Australia183 Posts
Saying that games are CAST live is entirely misleading. No one else distinguishes between the act of the commentators commentating and the broadcast of the actual games. the fact that commentating the games live isn't really any different from commentating from replays just adds to the confusion why the word live is being thrown around at all. TSL has no problems because they are an open about casting from replays. It's up-front, honest, and clear. It doesn't require you to read carefully and through a 20 page thread to work out what they actually mean. They don't make weird distinctions between casting time and broadcast time that are meaningless and only lead to confuse people. @Doraemon: I do not want this league to fail at all. I would not be wasting my time if I wanted this league to fail, how does that benefit me? There is a real confusion about this issue, and for some reason this is way more complicated then it needs to be. Edit: I just asked 3 of my friends who have read about NASL and they were all under the impression that the whole thing was actually live. Now they are disappointed that it isn't. I'm sure if they were never confused there wouldn't have been an issue. | ||
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Xeris
Iran17695 Posts
On February 23 2011 19:06 applejuice wrote: The point is, you need to write something like: "Games will be cast LIVE, but they will not be broadcast live." After the amount of flak you've already taken on this, maybe it's time to realize that your approach to this point has not been successful. Stop beating the dead horse acting like the community is just full of stupid people. If you stand behind your product, and you're not trying to hide anything, then this should be a non-issue. The way it reads in the OP is rather defensive. Can you please explain this? It seems rather clear to me. Cast live =/= broadcast live. | ||
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
On February 23 2011 19:00 Xeris wrote: 1) The people with the 4 worst records will lose their spot. 2) The full format & info will be released soon 3) The Open Tournament is open to anyone irrespective of whether they are on a team or not. 4) Again, the open is open to anyone... so if Liquid has a 6th member and he wins the open, and all 5 of their players qualify for the Grand Final... they could have 6 players in there. Uff you misunderstood some of my questions (or I didn't phrase them good). So let me try to do it better. this connects to both question 3 and 4: I mean for the next season of NASL, not just 16 man finals. What I understood is that 4 top players from Open qualifiers get into the 50 player pool for the next season division plays. So those 4 players can be teamless or part of teams that already have 5 players within those 50. How will you handle these? | ||
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Buddhist
United States658 Posts
It doesn't require you to read carefully and through a 20 page thread to work out what they actually mean. I was thinking this. If I had never just happened to go to the 20th page of this thread, and see that people were talking about this, I never would have even considered that the games wouldn't be cast/broadcasted live. The OP is very deceptive, whether or not intentionally. On February 23 2011 19:07 Doraemon.doraemon wrote: Reading some of these comments is giving the feeling that so many people want this league to fail or something... I lol'd. Yes, because concern and constructive criticism will surely cause the NASL to fail! | ||
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karpo
Sweden1998 Posts
On February 23 2011 19:09 Xeris wrote: The GSL makes it very difficult for foreigners to compete in it, I don't really see the difference. And why would we just assume that the GSL is synonymous to the NHL? Again, if we actually look at neutral tournaments that have had Koreans & Foreigners playing in it, we've seen that: a) Koreans are not invincible b) Foreigners might actually be as good or better than MOST Koreans. - Koreans were beaten by foreigners at Blizzcon - Koreans couldn't even make top 3 at Dreamhack - Idra & Jinro repeatedly beat Koreans in the GSL (the only foreigners in Code S have been successful repeatedly). Again. People misrepresent the strength of Koreans. They don't realize that it's really difficult for a foreigner to just be immediately successful in Korea. Starcraft isn't a game where you can just play on a whim at a high level. If you just moved to Korea from your home and have to adjust quickly to a completely different way of life, there's no way you're going to compete well against players who live & practice in a Korean environment. Was Jinro successful in GSL 1 and 2? Nope... he wasn't used to Korea yet. How about IdrA? He did nothing for 1 year in Korea as he was getting used to the lifestyle. Once Jinro had a few months to acclimate himself to the lifestyle, he's consistently a top 5 player in Korea. IdrA is also one of the top players in Korea. So: 2 of the 2 foreigners who have been in Korea for an extended period of time have been hugely successful in GSL. That's a 100% success rate. Give any top foreigner 3-4 months and I can guarantee they will be in Code S and successful. Just watch how Ret and HuK will perform in the next GSL (this season they probably won't do so well, but I can almost guarantee they will dominate next season). This reeks of reverse fanboyism. Sure some foreigners are doing good, but the whole post kinda overexaggerates how well foreigners are doing vs koreans. | ||
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Enzyme
Australia183 Posts
On February 23 2011 19:10 Xeris wrote: Can you please explain this? It seems rather clear to me. Cast live =/= broadcast live. Well the fact that cast is actually short for broadcast makes that incredibly confusing. People on YouTube are "casters" of games. They broadcast them. Day9 at an MLG event is a commentator, he is commentating on games. | ||
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Buddhist
United States658 Posts
On February 23 2011 19:10 Xeris wrote: Can you please explain this? It seems rather clear to me. Cast live =/= broadcast live. Most people don't distinguish between "cast live" and "broadcast live", because "Cast live but not broadcast live" is no more live than "Cast from replay". What is the point of streaming it if it's not broadcast live? Might as well just upload as VODs only. Basically, when people see "live", they think you mean "live", not "well the commentators were there when it happened, but you won't watch it live". | ||
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Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
On February 23 2011 19:02 Buddhist wrote: Maybe if NASL promised Day9, people would care less. Gretorp and InControl aren't horrible, but they are no Tastosis :/ no offense to them. Point is, Day9 on a good day, or Tastosis in general, can turn paint drying into a fun experience (because they are comedians). Hey, work in progress right? InControl and Gretorp will improve, and they already mentioned they'll have guest casters. The stream quality is mint. The prize pool will draw great players. It's a good start, considering they're beginning from scratch. | ||
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Xeris
Iran17695 Posts
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wxwx
527 Posts
When watching the Jinra Idra showmatch I was SOOO pumped during the interviews because they were both interviewed in the same room, and I thought both players were just going to step into the computer room and we would get to see the players play live. In the end I was so disappointed when it was replays, and we never got to see the players. So essentially my two requests are 1) Live games 2) player cam The player cam is totally in line with NASL's objectives too. It would be so much better to build a story/background for each player if you have player expressions, ceremonies, etc. These suggestions would make this a real legit event. You want GO BIG! Compare yourselves to OSL/MSL/GSL, not TSL. | ||
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Shunjal
United States482 Posts
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