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Before you post, read the title of this thread slowly and out loud. |
On February 23 2011 17:46 Dhalphir wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 17:37 Torte de Lini wrote:On February 23 2011 17:35 Enzyme wrote:On February 23 2011 17:31 Torte de Lini wrote:On February 23 2011 17:29 Enzyme wrote:
Thinking about it, why are they mentioning that it is live at all? Is there any difference between commentating live and just commentating on replays when you are going to delay the broadcast by a day? We aren't seeing the games live either way. People hate replays because it means that the game already occurred, it's over. If you are delaying the games anyway, why not just cast them from replays and be done with it. If there's no difference, why make a problem of the distinction? Well by mentioning they are commentating it live, they are making out like it's some fabulous feature, which it clearly isn't. They've even been capitalizing the word LIVE as if it's something amazing, when really it's no better than commentating on replays. In fact, they'd be better off just commentating on replays because then they wouldn't have to worry about delays and issues they could just record whenever they wanted. They are going out of their way to try and sell a meaningless "feature". Aren't you making this issue or possible antic more of an issue than it really is? What changes exactly besides your mindset? Do the games get better? Are the players supremely better if we watch them live? If we pray to them knowing they're playing as we're praying, do they receive some otherworldly benediction? If they play live and we cheer and chant their names into the starry night sky, will they feel our blessing? Will they feel our call for help, our need to see them succeed, to achieve the best of their abilities as we stare at the illuminated square of our monitor! Will they know that I am staring right at them, into their soul, feeling the pulse of their fingers as they apply several maneuvers in real-time as I glare at his opponent, hoping he/she will crumble at the idea and possibility that thousands of people are transmitting a vast hatred for that person, that player, that obstacle preventing my favourite player from succeeding! It sounds dumb when you put it that way, and maybe it is, on a rational level, but its still important to me. I get much less excited sitting down to watch the VOD of a game I missed from the GSL (even if it was going to be a huge epic game like Jinro vs Idra or something), than I do sitting down live knowing its going down right now. I watched the HuK code a games live and danced around my room when he won the first game. If it was a VOD I would not have. I can't explain it. But I guarantee you I'm far from alone in feeling this way.
When something is truely live, the outcome is unknown and we in our silly human nature feel a connection to events as they unfold, as the future is still yet to be created before our eyes, anything can happen. You watch a VOD and the future becomes the past, the outcome is set in stone, there is a fatalistic mental state that actually does change the way we perceive recorded events compared to live ones.
Though as I'll state again, I can live with the fact it is delayed, especially since the most exciting games (the final 16 players) will be in the studio and I can only assume as such be entirely live, which I am very happy with.
My concern was with the marketing using the word live as if it meant anything, when all it has done is confuse people. Some may find this point "silly" however I respectfully disagree and don't see why such "fluffery" is required. They have the prize pool, they don't need to try and sell the event by pretending that commentating the games live is a fantastic feature. I have made my point and now I will leave it, I originally only sought to make a comment, I was not expecting to be attacked, especially in a Q&A thread...
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I think we've been quite open about this. I fail to see the difference if:
a) nobody knows the result of the game
b) you're watching the broadcast, you along with the other thousands of people who are watching it are the first people to ever see the games
What's the difference between this and watching it "totally live" aside from some weird psychological thing?
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To add an example of competition on television that features content that is very much _not_ live, but still engenders a large amount of tension, think of Survivor. They tape that show like months in advance. That gives them time to cut it together, take out the boring parts, and weave it into a cohesive story. That's exactly what the NASL is doing. It isn't a very big deal.
Furthermore, I assume that since the playoffs/16-person tournament will be offline in a venue with 2000 seats, that will be "truly" live. So there won't be a situation where the winner of the grand prize is determined one day, but its kept a secret until the broadcast. It's just the regular season. There is literally no down side to this. It will give them awesome flexibility to turn out a refined product. I hope they take advantage of it!
Another important thing to note is how much easier this makes it to market to television. They can stretch out or speed up transitions in order to fit the games into a timeslot. That's a big problem with something like StarCraft, since games can range from 10minutes to an hour. TV broadcasters want to be able to control that sort of thing better, and a one day delay will let NASL do that. I don't know about you, but I definitely want to see SC2 on TV!
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On February 23 2011 17:53 Xeris wrote:
I think we've been quite open about this. I fail to see the difference if:
a) nobody knows the result of the game
b) you're watching the broadcast, you along with the other thousands of people who are watching it are the first people to ever see the games
What's the difference between this and watching it "totally live" aside from some weird psychological thing?
All due respect, however I find it quite naive to expect everyone to act entirely rational and ignore the psychological aspect of watching a sporting event. At the end of the day, the enjoyment taken from sport is entirely psychological, at the end of the day it's just a game. If you want to be rational, why are we watching people play video games at all?
There is a real psychological difference. Whether that is a big of enough problem that someone will or wont watch the games is up to them, however denying its existence, or calling it stupid, is denying how the human mind works.
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On February 23 2011 17:52 Skrelt wrote:
the 2 questions i read above me about map pool where ignored, so 3th lucky charm??
What is the map pool gonna be like? A ESL example, where you work together with iccup? (saw much good games on those maps) or a more GSL like mappool? Or just gonna create your own maps? or does the ladder diced your map pool?
They will not make their own maps but will use what other big organizations (GSL, MLG. etc) are using so players will have a easier time practicing.
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On February 23 2011 17:52 Skrelt wrote:
the 2 questions i read above me about map pool where ignored, so 3th lucky charm??
What is the map pool gonna be like? A ESL example, where you work together with iccup? (saw much good games on those maps) or a more GSL like mappool? Or just gonna create your own maps? or does the ladder diced your map pool?
It was said on SOTG that the map pool would be kept in line with other major tournaments to limit the number of maps players need to practice on.
Judging by the showmatch, the GSL maps are looking likely.
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On February 23 2011 18:00 oursblanc wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 17:52 Skrelt wrote:
the 2 questions i read above me about map pool where ignored, so 3th lucky charm??
What is the map pool gonna be like? A ESL example, where you work together with iccup? (saw much good games on those maps) or a more GSL like mappool? Or just gonna create your own maps? or does the ladder diced your map pool? It was said on SOTG that the map pool would be kept in line with other major tournaments to limit the number of maps players need to practice on. Judging by the showmatch, the GSL maps are looking likely.
Ty verymuch, didnt got the chance to listen to SotG, wil do this ASAP
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On February 23 2011 17:53 Xeris wrote:
What's the difference between this and watching it "totally live" aside from some weird psychological thing?
Absolutely nothing, but you are underestimating the "weird psychological thing".
Specially when it comes to sports, which we all think in one way or another that sc is. Sports are always consider more enjoyable to watch live, as in it happens right this moment, then a taped version.
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*** Question ***
Hey, I am one of members in a Korean professional team. Many Korean professional gamers are getting interested in playing in NASL.
Can you tell me more details regarding qualification processes?
For example, Korean gamers will be definitely invited to the competition if they are in Code S or A in GSL. Or certain teams such as oGs, Prime, Startale and etc can send a certain number of players to NASL for granted.
If you could give me your direct email, it would be better to me.
Thanks
Brewers
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On February 23 2011 18:09 Brewers wrote:
*** Question ***
Hey, I am one of members in a Korean professional team. Many Korean professional gamers are getting interested in playing in NASL.
Can you tell me more details regarding qualification processes?
For example, Korean gamers will be definitely invited to the competition if they are in Code S or A in GSL. Or certain teams such as oGs, Prime, Startale and etc can send a certain number of players to NASL for granted.
If you could give me your direct email, it would be better to me.
Thanks
Brewers
i'm so happy to see this post. I sincerely hope that no matter what the "korean cap" is korea will send its best players to NASL so that NASL will grow bigger/get more viewers with the big GSL stars.
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Well, I'm glad to be reading this thread and noticed that there it was merely COMMENTATING it live rather than the players playing it live. I myself thought the players were going to play it live.
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Sponsors?: We're sponsored by pennies we picked up in the various ponds and fountains around the world. The money is there and ready to be given out to some amazing players!
Am I the only one who went "WHAT!?" at this? Like, I don't understand. If these guys had sponsors, their sponsors would DEFINITELY want recognition here. If they don't have sponsors, then how the hell did they get >$400,000 for these tourneys? Rofl. So confused.
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On February 23 2011 18:22 Buddhist wrote:Show nested quote +Sponsors?: We're sponsored by pennies we picked up in the various ponds and fountains around the world. The money is there and ready to be given out to some amazing players! Am I the only one who went "WHAT!?" at this? Like, I don't understand. If these guys had sponsors, their sponsors would DEFINITELY want recognition here. If they don't have sponsors, then how the hell did they get >$400,000 for these tourneys? Rofl. So confused.
They have sponsors that don't want recognition. For now.
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Q : If player A have a match with B, both players from SEA, is it possible for them to play on SEA server instead of NA server to diminish the lag effect? A bit of lag is not relevant for casters.
Q : If player C is from US and shall have a bo3 with A, is it possible to have a match on US and a match on SEA servers to be fair?
Q : Will you select players who don't speak english?
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On February 23 2011 17:53 Xeris wrote:
I think we've been quite open about this. I fail to see the difference if:
a) nobody knows the result of the game
b) you're watching the broadcast, you along with the other thousands of people who are watching it are the first people to ever see the games
What's the difference between this and watching it "totally live" aside from some weird psychological thing?
I don't think this isn't even about being rational or not. Yes, people understand that there's no functional difference. The difference, however, is very real.
It goes for anything:
-A shuttle launch is more interesting live
-A solar eclipse is more interesting live
-Any sporting event (including SC2) is more interesting live
-Everything is more interesting live
Why? Because if it already happened, then it isn't really a concern. When you're watching live, "something could happen". You lose any feeling of realism or suspense when you're watching a recording.
Not to mention, live events mean: Player emotional responses, ceremonies, crowd cheers, etc.
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*wrong post in wrong thread*
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On February 23 2011 18:25 Momildo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 18:22 Buddhist wrote:Sponsors?: We're sponsored by pennies we picked up in the various ponds and fountains around the world. The money is there and ready to be given out to some amazing players! Am I the only one who went "WHAT!?" at this? Like, I don't understand. If these guys had sponsors, their sponsors would DEFINITELY want recognition here. If they don't have sponsors, then how the hell did they get >$400,000 for these tourneys? Rofl. So confused. They have sponsors that don't want recognition. For now.
Who said we needed to have sponsors? Why can't I just be a millionaire who wants to run a league?
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On February 23 2011 18:33 Xeris wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 18:25 Momildo wrote:On February 23 2011 18:22 Buddhist wrote:Sponsors?: We're sponsored by pennies we picked up in the various ponds and fountains around the world. The money is there and ready to be given out to some amazing players! Am I the only one who went "WHAT!?" at this? Like, I don't understand. If these guys had sponsors, their sponsors would DEFINITELY want recognition here. If they don't have sponsors, then how the hell did they get >$400,000 for these tourneys? Rofl. So confused. They have sponsors that don't want recognition. For now. Who said we needed to have sponsors? Why can't I just be a millionaire who wants to run a league?
Rofl. You could at least advertise yourself, like sell t-shirts or something, if that were true.
But about the live/recording thing: I'm confused. The OP says the games are cast live. Is that like some kind of deceptive way to say "the games are cast live, just not played live"? Or are they actually played and casted live, like in GSL? This thread is 20 pages long :/
Edit: wait, what? The games are going to be cast live, but it's not going to be broadcasted live? rofl wtf is the point of that?
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On February 23 2011 17:53 Xeris wrote:
I think we've been quite open about this. I fail to see the difference if:
a) nobody knows the result of the game
b) you're watching the broadcast, you along with the other thousands of people who are watching it are the first people to ever see the games
What's the difference between this and watching it "totally live" aside from some weird psychological thing?
Because that "weird psychological thing" is actually an extremely integral part to why people like Live events more than non-Live ones.
As Enzyme said...
When something is truly live, the outcome is unknown and we in our silly human nature feel a connection to events as they unfold, as the future is still yet to be created before our eyes, anything can happen. You watch a VOD and the future becomes the past, the outcome is set in stone, there is a fatalistic mental state that actually does change the way we perceive recorded events compared to live ones.
The very fact that we're making such a big deal out of this (while being reasonable and not flaming, which should tell you we aren't just being internet-angry-people) should tell you that this is important.
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A simple question/potential problem area:
The thing I'm most worried about right now is oversaturation. You're proud that you'll be casting every game, and that's probably a good thing... at the start. Having ~15 hours of StarCraft 2 per week to watch just to keep on top of one league, though, will become a significant issue. Add in GSL, team leagues, MLG, anything else, and that's getting incredibly out of hand to follow.
Since you seem to have the schedule very ironed out and definitive, I think the proper solution is to hire someone to make ~15 minute videos recapping the highlights of each night. A "StarCenter," if you will. I'm a big fan of SC2 and I keep up pretty well with high level play and GSL, but there's no possible way that I can invest that much time into watching the league and still play the game at a reasonable level and have a life.
Imagine if your favorite football team had a game every day. That's essentially what this will be, unless you choose to only watch your favorite players, and that's unexciting because a lot of the best games are by not-so touted evenly matched players.
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EPT
