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[G] Comprehensive SC2 League and Ladder Guide - Page 80

Forum Index > SC2 General
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MonkeyBot
Profile Joined June 2013
United States125 Posts
November 25 2013 21:36 GMT
#1581
I agree the ladder is a bit weird now. Lots of ex plat and diamond in my silver league games. It's not stopping me from playing. I guess the losses help build more skill, but it would be nice to have an easier road back to Gold.
Freezard
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
Sweden1031 Posts
November 25 2013 23:38 GMT
#1582
Just got to master in 3v3! Only three of us in the group o_O
fried_rice
Profile Blog Joined July 2013
198 Posts
November 26 2013 09:21 GMT
#1583
According to the MMR-stats tool the current mininum-MMR for Master League shows up as 1360, I did break this number on a couple of occasions and just now I beat an opponent of 1560 MMR, which once again put me above 1360, yet still no promotion.

Do I have to be consistently/way above 1360 to be promoted or just breaking it should be enough? Are these league boundaries accurate at all for the current season?

I've been playing people of around 1500~1600 MMR, and I'm still in diamond, how the fuck can I increase my MMR to the point where I can get promoted if the system is matching me against people who are like 300~400 MMR higher than me all the time -.- this will keep fucking up my MMR as it will continue to float in the high diamond-low master range while I keep playing mid-masters and maintaining a 50~55% WR which will most likely make it so that it takes 2 years to get promoted (if I get promoted at all).
insectoceanx
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States331 Posts
November 26 2013 15:46 GMT
#1584
Read the first post, your mmr has to stabilize so that it is certain you are masters, otherwise you would just keep bouncing back and forth.
Najda
Profile Joined June 2010
United States3765 Posts
November 26 2013 18:34 GMT
#1585
On November 26 2013 18:21 fried_rice wrote:
According to the MMR-stats tool the current mininum-MMR for Master League shows up as 1360, I did break this number on a couple of occasions and just now I beat an opponent of 1560 MMR, which once again put me above 1360, yet still no promotion.

Do I have to be consistently/way above 1360 to be promoted or just breaking it should be enough? Are these league boundaries accurate at all for the current season?

I've been playing people of around 1500~1600 MMR, and I'm still in diamond, how the fuck can I increase my MMR to the point where I can get promoted if the system is matching me against people who are like 300~400 MMR higher than me all the time -.- this will keep fucking up my MMR as it will continue to float in the high diamond-low master range while I keep playing mid-masters and maintaining a 50~55% WR which will most likely make it so that it takes 2 years to get promoted (if I get promoted at all).


If you just passing the 1360 it wouldn't make sense you promote you and then immediately demote you if you lost the next game. Like the previous poster said, you have to stabilize over the threshold for a while before you get promoted. You will have to be able to go ~50% against the 1500 mmr people if you want to be masters.
korona
Profile Joined October 2009
1098 Posts
November 26 2013 19:03 GMT
#1586
On November 27 2013 03:34 Najda wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 26 2013 18:21 fried_rice wrote:
According to the MMR-stats tool the current mininum-MMR for Master League shows up as 1360, I did break this number on a couple of occasions and just now I beat an opponent of 1560 MMR, which once again put me above 1360, yet still no promotion.

Do I have to be consistently/way above 1360 to be promoted or just breaking it should be enough? Are these league boundaries accurate at all for the current season?

I've been playing people of around 1500~1600 MMR, and I'm still in diamond, how the fuck can I increase my MMR to the point where I can get promoted if the system is matching me against people who are like 300~400 MMR higher than me all the time -.- this will keep fucking up my MMR as it will continue to float in the high diamond-low master range while I keep playing mid-masters and maintaining a 50~55% WR which will most likely make it so that it takes 2 years to get promoted (if I get promoted at all).


If you just passing the 1360 it wouldn't make sense you promote you and then immediately demote you if you lost the next game. Like the previous poster said, you have to stabilize over the threshold for a while before you get promoted. You will have to be able to go ~50% against the 1500 mmr people if you want to be masters.

Demotions were never that easy even back then when they used MMR moving average.. Nowadays there are no mid-season demotions and promotions usually seem immediate. But all MMR tool calculations have an error margin. If you are hovering near the line you will likely be promoted very soon, unless you start playing negatively. I wrote more detailed answer several hours ago to the MMR tool thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=20307677
zajeBEASTY
Profile Joined March 2011
Poland40 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-01 13:57:37
November 30 2013 21:13 GMT
#1587
great post and explanation - thank you very much for it!

edit:

I have just one question if anyone knows the answer it will be sweet because I dont know if leaving league has any sense in my case:

"Seasonal placement matches place players in a league depending on their current MMR following the placement match, just as the initial 5 placement matches when starting a new account, and do not require crossing a confidence buffer".

So:

Does the placement match after I leave league mid-season work the same?? Do I still dont require crossing a confidence buffer so I can easier get promoted/demoted???

Thank you.
http://www.duchprawdy.com/poemat.htm / http://www.valtorta.org/the_poem__freeonlinereadingoffer.asp - Poemat Boga-Człowieka / Poem of the Man-God
Excalibur_Z
Profile Joined October 2002
United States12263 Posts
December 01 2013 18:02 GMT
#1588
On December 01 2013 06:13 zajeBEASTY wrote:
great post and explanation - thank you very much for it!

edit:

I have just one question if anyone knows the answer it will be sweet because I dont know if leaving league has any sense in my case:

"Seasonal placement matches place players in a league depending on their current MMR following the placement match, just as the initial 5 placement matches when starting a new account, and do not require crossing a confidence buffer".

So:

Does the placement match after I leave league mid-season work the same?? Do I still dont require crossing a confidence buffer so I can easier get promoted/demoted???

Thank you.


I believe so, yes. I haven't heard of anyone actually getting promoted after leaving league and coming back, this would probably be a rare occurrence to happen when you're right on the border and one more game would push your over. Demotions, though, yes.
Moderator
Salient
Profile Joined August 2011
United States876 Posts
December 01 2013 20:52 GMT
#1589
I hope they fix the ladder distribution soon. More than half of my clan basically stopped laddering due to all the random higher league players demoted to lower leagues. Former Plats in Silver and Gold, former Diamonds and Masters in Plat. I'm afraid this game will lose a lot of players if this isn't fixed next season.
Phattyasmo
Profile Joined October 2011
United States69 Posts
December 01 2013 21:01 GMT
#1590
On November 26 2013 18:21 fried_rice wrote:
According to the MMR-stats tool the current mininum-MMR for Master League shows up as 1360, I did break this number on a couple of occasions and just now I beat an opponent of 1560 MMR, which once again put me above 1360, yet still no promotion.

Do I have to be consistently/way above 1360 to be promoted or just breaking it should be enough? Are these league boundaries accurate at all for the current season?

I've been playing people of around 1500~1600 MMR, and I'm still in diamond, how the fuck can I increase my MMR to the point where I can get promoted if the system is matching me against people who are like 300~400 MMR higher than me all the time -.- this will keep fucking up my MMR as it will continue to float in the high diamond-low master range while I keep playing mid-masters and maintaining a 50~55% WR which will most likely make it so that it takes 2 years to get promoted (if I get promoted at all).




Why not just focus on the game(s) and not worry so much about the promotion? It has been stated again and again; if your MMR crosses that confidence threshold, then you will get promoted. Just enjoy the games you're playing; you spend more time in-game than anything, why care so much about looking at a league icon? The promotion will come, just play and have fun.
Salient
Profile Joined August 2011
United States876 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-01 22:12:22
December 01 2013 21:44 GMT
#1591
On December 02 2013 06:01 Phattyasmo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 26 2013 18:21 fried_rice wrote:
According to the MMR-stats tool the current mininum-MMR for Master League shows up as 1360, I did break this number on a couple of occasions and just now I beat an opponent of 1560 MMR, which once again put me above 1360, yet still no promotion.

Do I have to be consistently/way above 1360 to be promoted or just breaking it should be enough? Are these league boundaries accurate at all for the current season?

I've been playing people of around 1500~1600 MMR, and I'm still in diamond, how the fuck can I increase my MMR to the point where I can get promoted if the system is matching me against people who are like 300~400 MMR higher than me all the time -.- this will keep fucking up my MMR as it will continue to float in the high diamond-low master range while I keep playing mid-masters and maintaining a 50~55% WR which will most likely make it so that it takes 2 years to get promoted (if I get promoted at all).




Why not just focus on the game(s) and not worry so much about the promotion? It has been stated again and again; if your MMR crosses that confidence threshold, then you will get promoted. Just enjoy the games you're playing; you spend more time in-game than anything, why care so much about looking at a league icon? The promotion will come, just play and have fun.


I think really dedicated players will just keep laddering. But, I know for a fact that many semi-casual players are quitting or at least becoming less active due to the messed up ladder. There are lots of other games for them to play if they decide SC2 is too frustrating.
zajeBEASTY
Profile Joined March 2011
Poland40 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-02 10:29:46
December 02 2013 10:28 GMT
#1592
On December 02 2013 03:02 Excalibur_Z wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2013 06:13 zajeBEASTY wrote:
great post and explanation - thank you very much for it!

edit:

I have just one question if anyone knows the answer it will be sweet because I dont know if leaving league has any sense in my case:

"Seasonal placement matches place players in a league depending on their current MMR following the placement match, just as the initial 5 placement matches when starting a new account, and do not require crossing a confidence buffer".

So:

Does the placement match after I leave league mid-season work the same?? Do I still dont require crossing a confidence buffer so I can easier get promoted/demoted???

Thank you.


I believe so, yes. I haven't heard of anyone actually getting promoted after leaving league and coming back, this would probably be a rare occurrence to happen when you're right on the border and one more game would push your over. Demotions, though, yes.


Thanks for answering my question Excalibur_Z! I too did think the same so I wont be promoted if I leave my league especially will ladder dafltion happening nowadays - I really hope they will fix that soon! Now there is over 65% active bronze/silver players and over 80% bronze/silver/gold players. I dont care, I play, but many may quit game if this isnt corrected.
http://www.duchprawdy.com/poemat.htm / http://www.valtorta.org/the_poem__freeonlinereadingoffer.asp - Poemat Boga-Człowieka / Poem of the Man-God
Excalibur_Z
Profile Joined October 2002
United States12263 Posts
December 02 2013 18:39 GMT
#1593
On December 02 2013 19:28 zajeBEASTY wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 02 2013 03:02 Excalibur_Z wrote:
On December 01 2013 06:13 zajeBEASTY wrote:
great post and explanation - thank you very much for it!

edit:

I have just one question if anyone knows the answer it will be sweet because I dont know if leaving league has any sense in my case:

"Seasonal placement matches place players in a league depending on their current MMR following the placement match, just as the initial 5 placement matches when starting a new account, and do not require crossing a confidence buffer".

So:

Does the placement match after I leave league mid-season work the same?? Do I still dont require crossing a confidence buffer so I can easier get promoted/demoted???

Thank you.


I believe so, yes. I haven't heard of anyone actually getting promoted after leaving league and coming back, this would probably be a rare occurrence to happen when you're right on the border and one more game would push your over. Demotions, though, yes.


Thanks for answering my question Excalibur_Z! I too did think the same so I wont be promoted if I leave my league especially will ladder dafltion happening nowadays - I really hope they will fix that soon! Now there is over 65% active bronze/silver players and over 80% bronze/silver/gold players. I dont care, I play, but many may quit game if this isnt corrected.


There are not 65% active bronze/silver players, there's no way. You're looking at total accounts and those do not represent the active player population at all. The lower leagues appear inflated because inactive players are pushed down into them, but the reason they were pushed down at all is simply because they're not playing the game.

That's not to say they never play any games (obviously they do otherwise they wouldn't be in a league at all), and it's also not to say that there isn't a potential skill definition issue. Let's say you log on today in Bronze and play 10 games. Let's say Bronze is currently made up of active and inactive Bronze players, inactive Silvers, inactive Golds, and inactive Platinums. Let's also say that you have maybe a 60% chance of playing an active Bronze, 20% an inactive Bronze, 10% an inactive Silver, 7% an inactive Gold, and 3% an inactive Platinum. Just based on who is currently queued up, there is a very low chance that you'll hit someone who has decayed all the way from Platinum, but it still exists! If some inactive demoted-from-Platinum guy decides to play one game a month, and you're the lucky opponent, it's probably not going to end well for you if you're playing at a Bronze level, and that sucks.
Moderator
zajeBEASTY
Profile Joined March 2011
Poland40 Posts
December 02 2013 20:48 GMT
#1594
On December 03 2013 03:39 Excalibur_Z wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 02 2013 19:28 zajeBEASTY wrote:
On December 02 2013 03:02 Excalibur_Z wrote:
On December 01 2013 06:13 zajeBEASTY wrote:
great post and explanation - thank you very much for it!

edit:

I have just one question if anyone knows the answer it will be sweet because I dont know if leaving league has any sense in my case:

"Seasonal placement matches place players in a league depending on their current MMR following the placement match, just as the initial 5 placement matches when starting a new account, and do not require crossing a confidence buffer".

So:

Does the placement match after I leave league mid-season work the same?? Do I still dont require crossing a confidence buffer so I can easier get promoted/demoted???

Thank you.


I believe so, yes. I haven't heard of anyone actually getting promoted after leaving league and coming back, this would probably be a rare occurrence to happen when you're right on the border and one more game would push your over. Demotions, though, yes.


Thanks for answering my question Excalibur_Z! I too did think the same so I wont be promoted if I leave my league especially will ladder dafltion happening nowadays - I really hope they will fix that soon! Now there is over 65% active bronze/silver players and over 80% bronze/silver/gold players. I dont care, I play, but many may quit game if this isnt corrected.


There are not 65% active bronze/silver players, there's no way. You're looking at total accounts and those do not represent the active player population at all. The lower leagues appear inflated because inactive players are pushed down into them, but the reason they were pushed down at all is simply because they're not playing the game.

That's not to say they never play any games (obviously they do otherwise they wouldn't be in a league at all), and it's also not to say that there isn't a potential skill definition issue. Let's say you log on today in Bronze and play 10 games. Let's say Bronze is currently made up of active and inactive Bronze players, inactive Silvers, inactive Golds, and inactive Platinums. Let's also say that you have maybe a 60% chance of playing an active Bronze, 20% an inactive Bronze, 10% an inactive Silver, 7% an inactive Gold, and 3% an inactive Platinum. Just based on who is currently queued up, there is a very low chance that you'll hit someone who has decayed all the way from Platinum, but it still exists! If some inactive demoted-from-Platinum guy decides to play one game a month, and you're the lucky opponent, it's probably not going to end well for you if you're playing at a Bronze level, and that sucks.


Hmm... I didnt think about that, are there any stats that says it clearly that leagues are still like they should be (2% 18% 20% 32% 20% 8%)??
http://www.duchprawdy.com/poemat.htm / http://www.valtorta.org/the_poem__freeonlinereadingoffer.asp - Poemat Boga-Człowieka / Poem of the Man-God
Excalibur_Z
Profile Joined October 2002
United States12263 Posts
December 02 2013 22:00 GMT
#1595
On December 03 2013 05:48 zajeBEASTY wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 03 2013 03:39 Excalibur_Z wrote:
On December 02 2013 19:28 zajeBEASTY wrote:
On December 02 2013 03:02 Excalibur_Z wrote:
On December 01 2013 06:13 zajeBEASTY wrote:
great post and explanation - thank you very much for it!

edit:

I have just one question if anyone knows the answer it will be sweet because I dont know if leaving league has any sense in my case:

"Seasonal placement matches place players in a league depending on their current MMR following the placement match, just as the initial 5 placement matches when starting a new account, and do not require crossing a confidence buffer".

So:

Does the placement match after I leave league mid-season work the same?? Do I still dont require crossing a confidence buffer so I can easier get promoted/demoted???

Thank you.


I believe so, yes. I haven't heard of anyone actually getting promoted after leaving league and coming back, this would probably be a rare occurrence to happen when you're right on the border and one more game would push your over. Demotions, though, yes.


Thanks for answering my question Excalibur_Z! I too did think the same so I wont be promoted if I leave my league especially will ladder dafltion happening nowadays - I really hope they will fix that soon! Now there is over 65% active bronze/silver players and over 80% bronze/silver/gold players. I dont care, I play, but many may quit game if this isnt corrected.


There are not 65% active bronze/silver players, there's no way. You're looking at total accounts and those do not represent the active player population at all. The lower leagues appear inflated because inactive players are pushed down into them, but the reason they were pushed down at all is simply because they're not playing the game.

That's not to say they never play any games (obviously they do otherwise they wouldn't be in a league at all), and it's also not to say that there isn't a potential skill definition issue. Let's say you log on today in Bronze and play 10 games. Let's say Bronze is currently made up of active and inactive Bronze players, inactive Silvers, inactive Golds, and inactive Platinums. Let's also say that you have maybe a 60% chance of playing an active Bronze, 20% an inactive Bronze, 10% an inactive Silver, 7% an inactive Gold, and 3% an inactive Platinum. Just based on who is currently queued up, there is a very low chance that you'll hit someone who has decayed all the way from Platinum, but it still exists! If some inactive demoted-from-Platinum guy decides to play one game a month, and you're the lucky opponent, it's probably not going to end well for you if you're playing at a Bronze level, and that sucks.


Hmm... I didnt think about that, are there any stats that says it clearly that leagues are still like they should be (2% 18% 20% 32% 20% 8%)??


You can consult my activity metric thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=423477
Moderator
b0041203
Profile Joined December 2013
1 Post
December 03 2013 09:22 GMT
#1596
--- Nuked ---
zajeBEASTY
Profile Joined March 2011
Poland40 Posts
December 03 2013 11:51 GMT
#1597
On December 03 2013 07:00 Excalibur_Z wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 03 2013 05:48 zajeBEASTY wrote:
On December 03 2013 03:39 Excalibur_Z wrote:
On December 02 2013 19:28 zajeBEASTY wrote:
On December 02 2013 03:02 Excalibur_Z wrote:
On December 01 2013 06:13 zajeBEASTY wrote:
great post and explanation - thank you very much for it!

edit:

I have just one question if anyone knows the answer it will be sweet because I dont know if leaving league has any sense in my case:

"Seasonal placement matches place players in a league depending on their current MMR following the placement match, just as the initial 5 placement matches when starting a new account, and do not require crossing a confidence buffer".

So:

Does the placement match after I leave league mid-season work the same?? Do I still dont require crossing a confidence buffer so I can easier get promoted/demoted???

Thank you.


I believe so, yes. I haven't heard of anyone actually getting promoted after leaving league and coming back, this would probably be a rare occurrence to happen when you're right on the border and one more game would push your over. Demotions, though, yes.


Thanks for answering my question Excalibur_Z! I too did think the same so I wont be promoted if I leave my league especially will ladder dafltion happening nowadays - I really hope they will fix that soon! Now there is over 65% active bronze/silver players and over 80% bronze/silver/gold players. I dont care, I play, but many may quit game if this isnt corrected.


There are not 65% active bronze/silver players, there's no way. You're looking at total accounts and those do not represent the active player population at all. The lower leagues appear inflated because inactive players are pushed down into them, but the reason they were pushed down at all is simply because they're not playing the game.

That's not to say they never play any games (obviously they do otherwise they wouldn't be in a league at all), and it's also not to say that there isn't a potential skill definition issue. Let's say you log on today in Bronze and play 10 games. Let's say Bronze is currently made up of active and inactive Bronze players, inactive Silvers, inactive Golds, and inactive Platinums. Let's also say that you have maybe a 60% chance of playing an active Bronze, 20% an inactive Bronze, 10% an inactive Silver, 7% an inactive Gold, and 3% an inactive Platinum. Just based on who is currently queued up, there is a very low chance that you'll hit someone who has decayed all the way from Platinum, but it still exists! If some inactive demoted-from-Platinum guy decides to play one game a month, and you're the lucky opponent, it's probably not going to end well for you if you're playing at a Bronze level, and that sucks.


Hmm... I didnt think about that, are there any stats that says it clearly that leagues are still like they should be (2% 18% 20% 32% 20% 8%)??


You can consult my activity metric thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=423477

Ok, thx will read it shortly.
http://www.duchprawdy.com/poemat.htm / http://www.valtorta.org/the_poem__freeonlinereadingoffer.asp - Poemat Boga-Człowieka / Poem of the Man-God
massmurder414
Profile Joined January 2011
United States186 Posts
December 28 2013 21:39 GMT
#1598
I like some parts of it, and i strongly like to thing its true is some parts, let me kinda base how far away from masters i was when i got back into the game so, ^_^ cool setup, thumbs up!
Moonsalt
Profile Joined May 2011
267 Posts
December 29 2013 12:08 GMT
#1599
This pretty much covers up all my questions about the ladder, thank you great post.
Extenz
Profile Joined October 2011
Italy822 Posts
December 31 2013 13:31 GMT
#1600
If you leave your league before the new season, do you get to play all 5 placement matches and your mmr resets?
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