EPT[G] Comprehensive SC2 League and Ladder Guide - Page 82
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probuLing
United States75 Posts
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Excalibur_Z
United States12263 Posts
On April 07 2014 16:13 Asuna wrote: If the season locks, and you play your 2v2 arranged team mmr into high masters, is it possible to get into masters by leaving league and playing the one placement match? Assuming Leave League doesn't impose some kind of rating penalty (and to be fair, it should, since you can't get demoted midseason anymore), yes you could do that. | ||
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korona
1098 Posts
On April 08 2014 06:25 Excalibur_Z wrote: Assuming Leave League doesn't impose some kind of rating penalty (and to be fair, it should, since you can't get demoted midseason anymore), yes you could do that. There was no MMR penalty regarding the 'leave league' feature in 1v1 at least last time I checked during season 16 (current season is S17, season that starts next week is S18). But regarding new accounts there might be some kind of exception (amount of matches played after blank MMR start or something similar?) that would lead to full MMR reset (in first HotS seasons there were reports of people getting full reset, but haven't heard since. Also the MMR tool users I observed who were using the 'leave league' feature had no changes to their MMR by using it except the normal outcome of the new placement match). The biggest dilemma in these cases often is that people do not understand what 'high in some league' means. In 1v1 many who are seemingly high regarding ladder points are quite often actually in low range (or even below) of their league regarding MMR. When MMR decay is also added into the mix, estimating MMR is not straightforward if one does not understand how the system works and only looks at the visible points. | ||
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ColterTV
Argentina163 Posts
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User15937
68 Posts
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Creager
Germany1965 Posts
On May 03 2014 13:59 ColterTV wrote: Hey, with a few friends just noticed that a lot of players are being promoted without aparent reason, like, playing normally in your league you suddenly get promoted. Did Blizzard make some big changes to the ladder system? It is a bug? Did it happen to you? Yeah, was playing some games with a friend yesterday and we both got promoted despite neither of us had a winning streak going on, also playing vs. other diamonds suddenly feels like gold league, while last season I couldn't even manage getting re-promoted from plat with a >60% winrate. Since then lots of 30 apm one-base all-ins (really poorly executed as well), so there must have been intended or unintended changes to the league distribution system. Does someone have any news on this? Would be really cool to get some info on this matter... Or is there a specific thread for this topic already? Couldn't find one. | ||
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goqsane
Belgium3 Posts
Something must have changed  | ||
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ZAiNs
United Kingdom6525 Posts
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goqsane
Belgium3 Posts
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ColterTV
Argentina163 Posts
On May 05 2014 17:32 Creager wrote: Does someone have any news on this? Would be really cool to get some info on this matter... Or is there a specific thread for this topic already? Couldn't find one. Here http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/12673258221 | ||
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Excalibur_Z
United States12263 Posts
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Creager
Germany1965 Posts
Thanks for providing this! Last time they did it, ladder was so unbelievably broken, I couldn't get out of gold league while having to face master players... now it's like everyone got promoted to dia and the quality of games decreased A LOT! Wish Blizz would keep us all up to date with (apparently not so) small changes like that, that's what the ingame news are for after all. I know it sounds like "they'll never get something right", that's not my intention, it's just NOT a motivating system when league boundaries change so drastically a player can't evaluate his relative level of skill. Very dissatisfying experience for me (please bring the old Wings model back, demotions aren't a bad thing!!!) | ||
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terranimbastimamove
United States81 Posts
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Slydie
2015 Posts
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Excalibur_Z
United States12263 Posts
On May 23 2014 08:39 Slydie wrote: I am now 18-3 in gold league, starting this season decayed in silver, how many wins over lossed do I need to get promoted to platinum? I even won a gold-league tournament... and most platinums dont look scary to me at all... We don't have good data on how Platinum was affected by the May 1 boundary changes (referring to the MMR-Stats tool). My guess would be 20 wins over losses since you entered into Gold. | ||
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Slydie
2015 Posts
The level was not that scary, I remember it way more difficult a few seasons ago! One of my last games was against a silver-zerg trying a 1base roach attack... | ||
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Zheryn
Sweden3653 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/fNzef5c.png) | ||
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korona
1098 Posts
On August 03 2014 00:19 Zheryn wrote: Why does MMR improve so incredibly slow, or is my account just broken or something? I started playing on this account from low diamond MMR (placed in platinum, promoted to diamond after 2 or 3 games). Since then I've played against diamonds for almost 80 games with 80% win rate. I still meet almost exclusively diamonds even tho I am #1 diamond on NA out of 8,119 players... The fuck is going on? First I see you have already been promoted to master & you continue winning considerably more than you lose. It would be interesting to know what were your win and loss counts were when you were promoted (winrate is not interesting). MMR changes rapidly only when you start from blank MMR in certain game mode (5 placements matches). After about 25 matches (includes the 5 placements) the change rate stabilizes. After that it will take considerable amount of matches to go over different leagues (league sizes differ - most are quite small but some like diamond are large). At start of HotS Blizzard implemented MMR decay feature. If you don't play certain mode your MMR starts decaying after 2 weeks and reaches its maximum value at 4 weeks mark. Maximum decay equals roughly 20 straight losses. As considerable portion of the player base is not active enough it has lead to global MMR decrease. Blizzard has several times (once last year, at least twice this year) changed league offsets / thresholds to fix the league distributions. Due to these offset / threshold changes the MMR range of diamond league has become huge. Current estimate for diamond league MMR range size based on MMR tool data is 470. On average players win / lose 16 MMR points per match. Based on this you would need 30 wins more than losses to go over diamond range. But in practice you will need more. The matchmaker seems to prefer opponents from your league. It still matches based on MMR, but if there is close MMR opponents from your league, they are picked instead of opponents from other leagues. Thus most opponents will likely have lower MMR than you when you are in high range of your league. In high range you start gaining less points per win and lose more per loss. Thus one could guestimate that for a large league such as diamond about 40 wins more than losses would get you to master if you start from bottom border of diamond (less if you only win, more if your winrate drops at high range) . For smaller leagues the count is much closer to the calculated estimate based on average values. But let's see your account. You do not have 1v1 league record from last season, but I presume in following text that your MMR had not been reset (1 placement match if no reset, 5 placements if reset). You had 3 games (likely wins) in platinum range and then you were promoted. At promotion time your MMR was at the bottom border of diamond. You had 62 wins and 16 losses. Thus 62 - 3 - 16 gives us 43 wins more than losses when inside diamond range. I would guess you were very close to promotion when you posted this. I also quickly calculated your rough adjusted points. They were around 386 if you had spent all of your bonus pool (NA diamond pool was ~407 two days ago when you posted). But I have not checked the typical adjusted point levels where people are usually promoted (also adjusted points can be off from the typical amount what people have when having certain MMR). | ||
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korona
1098 Posts
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Zheryn
Sweden3653 Posts
On August 05 2014 00:49 korona wrote: First I see you have already been promoted to master & you continue winning considerably more than you lose. It would be interesting to know what were your win and loss counts were when you were promoted (winrate is not interesting). MMR changes rapidly only when you start from blank MMR in certain game mode (5 placements matches). After about 25 matches (includes the 5 placements) the change rate stabilizes. After that it will take considerable amount of matches to go over different leagues (league sizes differ - most are quite small but some like diamond are large). Thanks a lot for the good answer! Yeah I think I got promoted like 5 wins after posting. You say that the MMR change rate stabilizes after some games, but does it not change more after that if you win a lot of games? I did not play on NA last season but I have played to master there before so I guess my change rate was stabilized. However, when I have a win rate of 80% does the change rate not increase? I thought that you got slightly higher change rate the more wins you got so if you have like 20 wins in a row the game would increase MMR rapidly until you start losing. This doesn't seem to be the case from my experience tho, rather the other way around lol, which is pretty lame imo. Edit: Also, since you seem to know your stuff, do you know what the point difference between master and GM is or if there's a way to "compare" your master rank to GM players? I'm currently rank #10 master NA with 974 points. Let's say I was to be promoted or that GM was 300 players instead of 200, around where would I be? | ||
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