EPTVoidRay/Colossus in PvZ - IMBALANCED! - Page 3
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Warning. Useless comments that are deemed to be flame/troll bait = ban. If you have criticism, thats fine but you better have amazing support to back up your opinion. Otherwise ban. | ||
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Fa1nT
United States3423 Posts
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StarcraftMan
Canada507 Posts
On February 16 2011 09:32 NearPerfection wrote: Lol... Future episodes of imbalance! Viking Marauder imbalanced!, Carrier Archon Imbalanced!, Zealot/Sentry/Stalker Imbalanced! But one unit combo will never be on this show, Roach/Hydra... I think u2 should go more in depth because it seems like alot of ur conclusions are based on "i feel". That's the problem. Artosis and Idra will never focus on the imbalance of Zerg unit. This show is really disappointing because of its bias. | ||
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EliteReplay
Dominican Republic913 Posts
thanks | ||
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StarcraftMan
Canada507 Posts
On February 16 2011 09:38 bri9and wrote: honestly, this show is turning into a whine session about zerg... for this show to have any real validity, it really needs to touch on something other than zerg and the problems they have with X. Agreed. Would be nice if they took a less biased view and looked at all races equally. | ||
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DuckS
United States845 Posts
On February 16 2011 09:49 DNA61289 wrote: Couldn't you go muta/queen and even some infestors? Since the mutas are a very good counter to VR which act as the main AA for this build. Queens use their AA attack against colossus and have transfusion to support each other and the mutas. Infestors with possible NP can help deal with the colossus, or even FG so the colossus can't be micro'd and the extra damage will help wear down the Protoss shields. So when you scout the Protoss going this build you can easily take a third since the VR and Colossus are going to take a while to mass, then start pumping mutas and queens and a few infestors ( really you only need 3 with full energy). You can also use the mutas to harass the Protoss. mutas a strech 'cause the army still has a good number of stalkers in it. but infestors are pretty good. i've had a lot of frustration vs infestors fungal growthing my ball and stalling my push/weakening me and @PPTouch: This isn't relevant to the thread at all, but your name made me lol. Bonus points if it was an accident. | ||
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Jerax
Canada189 Posts
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Aerakin
185 Posts
On February 16 2011 09:49 DNA61289 wrote: You can also use the mutas to harass the Protoss. Seriously, this. The whole point of the protoss deathball is that it pretty darn strong. But it is slow, as it has to stay together. I'd say muta can abuse that. Also, both Colossus and Void Rays are pretty darn expensive, I really doubt that protoss has anything to defend from the harass. I mean, I'm not saying that a protoss deathball is weak, but geez. Gateway units are borderline pathetic until you get blink or charge (which is pretty darn expensive by itself). If you're gonna make that deathball weaker, buff toss' early game, if only a little. | ||
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PPTouch
99 Posts
On February 16 2011 09:55 Jerax wrote: I suggest you guys go watch the game they were talking about, Yonghwa vs Kyrix. Man, ive never seen such a one sided game. Absolutely smashed kyrix's army. thus colossus voidray is imba | ||
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Aegeis
United States1619 Posts
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Jerax
Canada189 Posts
lol, Did I say that in my post? Way to jump to conclusions. It simply gives a better context for what they are saying, showing the build orders etc. | ||
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rS.Sinatra
Canada785 Posts
On February 16 2011 09:55 Jerax wrote: I suggest you guys go watch the game they were talking about, Yonghwa vs Kyrix. Man, ive never seen such a one sided game. Absolutely smashed kyrix's army. If fruitdealer created a "never-before-seen" strategy that beat the shit out of orb/bigt/(insert average master league protoss here) on GSL television, would you create a youtube video about how imbalanced zvp is? | ||
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TelecoM
United States10700 Posts
I have encountered this build many times, and when you see it coming, it is actually a lot easier to stop than people think, the only problem is mass mutalisk instead of mass corrupter, I'm surprised that Idra would not attempt to come to this conclusion...I guess because he goes roach / hydra / corrupter EVERY ZvP i've ever seen him play, like I said before, no offense but I strongly disagree, Muta / ling / bling with upgrades destroys voidray / colossi / zealot army. EDIT : The only real thing you have to worry about when massing muta / ling / bling is them going storm / archon, and even then by the time they do this , you can just tech switch to mass roach / ultralisk then broodlord and you will almost always be fine. | ||
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PPTouch
99 Posts
On February 16 2011 09:58 Jerax wrote: lol, Did I say that in my post? Way to jump to conclusions. It simply gives a better context for what they are saying, showing the build orders etc. that was clearly their thought process | ||
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rfoster
United States1005 Posts
On February 16 2011 09:49 DNA61289 wrote: Couldn't you go muta/queen and even some infestors? Since the mutas are a very good counter to VR which act as the main AA for this build. Queens use their AA attack against colossus and have transfusion to support each other and the mutas. Infestors with possible NP can help deal with the colossus, or even FG so the colossus can't be micro'd and the extra damage will help wear down the Protoss shields. So when you scout the Protoss going this build you can easily take a third since the VR and Colossus are going to take a while to mass, then start pumping mutas and queens and a few infestors ( really you only need 3 with full energy). You can also use the mutas to harass the Protoss. I did not consider the infestors im a bit confused to what role they would play. Also i wish they would`ve said something about mutas in this video, did they test them or did they forget about them? | ||
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rS.Sinatra
Canada785 Posts
On February 16 2011 09:59 gogatorsfoster wrote: I did not consider the infestors im a bit confused to what role they would play. Also i wish they would`ve said something about mutas in this video, did they test them or did they forget about them? They don't like to add things that take away from their bias argument, thats why they were not mentioned. | ||
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Hypatio
549 Posts
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legaton
France1763 Posts
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rfoster
United States1005 Posts
On February 16 2011 09:54 DuckS wrote: mutas a strech 'cause the army still has a good number of stalkers in it. but infestors are pretty good. i've had a lot of frustration vs infestors fungal growthing my ball and stalling my push/weakening me and @PPTouch: This isn't relevant to the thread at all, but your name made me lol. Bonus points if it was an accident. i think if you went mutas it would have to be a remax situation. Like you kill all the voids and collosi and then remax with roaches to win the game | ||
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Jayrod
1820 Posts
I think really to focus on this one matchup is silly. Terrans have just as hard of a time as zerg do with collossus, especially when coupled with phoenix. What is the terran solution? Timing pushes and chip damage to keep the protoss army from getting extremely powerful. Good example of a zerg who's timing pushes rape good protoss going for that death ball... check out Morrow's games at Assembly. He played zerg midgame unlike anyone ive seen in ZvP. I dont think zergs have a right to complain until they understand timing and these two clearly dont. If winning GSL was as simple as macroing well and not missing your spits, Idra would be reigning supreme. Unfortunately for him, starcraft is more complicated than just that one facet of the game. | ||
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Barca
United States418 Posts
On February 16 2011 09:39 Barca wrote: I'm sorry, you haven't convinced me that Void Ray/Collosus is imbalanced. You say a counter but then point out that there is a counter to your counter. Should not every build have a counter? Also being on 2 bases is all-in, so Zerg must also all-in to defend it And please stop talking about VoidRay/Collosus/Sentry, it is so incredible gas heavy that it can only be performed if the Zerg has played passively the whole game. Therefore, do not play passively. EDIT: Your argument is not fluid and strong and does not take into account all factors. User was warned for this post Dear Moderator who warned me (Zelniq most likely), "Your ignorant post implies that you did not watch the entire video, which you should probably do before you denounce their argument." If you look at the time from which the thread was posted and the time of my comment (9:07-9:39 ), comparing the two you will realize that my comment logically comes after watching the 30 minutes video. And yes, I did watch the whole video. Also, my comment clearly stems from what they were saying. They were not looking at all the counters, just naming a few that failed in their eyes. They even mentioned Zelniq's counter, which I've had done to me and stopped my "deathball" pretty coldly. But then they go on to say how not viable it is since a Protoss can counter it - RTS fail? I could name off a counter to the Protosses counter to the Zerg's counter, but that would get redundant. I do not appreciate being warned for disagreeing with an opinion and pointing out the flaws of an argument. Sincerely, Barca | ||
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