EPTZvP Changes Post 1.2? - Page 2
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FarbrorAbavna
Sweden4856 Posts
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Hobokinz
United States126 Posts
However I do think it will be a tough time for Zerg in the MU from now on. We used to be able to kick the door in with Muta's and kick ass and chew bubble gum for most of the game (Until a large amount of Blink Stalkers of HT hit the field.) Zerg is going to have to start to rely more on other units, like the Hydralisk do to it's ability to melt gateway units and ability to shoot up (Something unheard of for Zerg in SCII). Apart of my wants to QQ because it's now going to force the Zerg down the short tech tree of the ranged ground units (T3 Lurker how I miss you so.) but if nothing else it will show Blizzard the weakness of some of the Zerg units if we can't think of anything to deal with Toss air now. | ||
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BuuGhost
Netherlands340 Posts
But even tough the change was unnecessary imo. I'm fine with it. (terran/protoss perspective) I'd suggest going heavy zergling vs phoenixes. But i can't really talk as i havent played much games since the patch yet. But phoenixes are cost inefficient vs Zerglings if he is commiting to it. and he probably won't have a main army force. If he has only 3-4 phoenixes rally them overlords to your main base (i'd prefer less scouting information over dead supply needing to be rebuilt, But i do suggest keeping crucial overlords around its base. or at crucial spots  )Queens should be able to defend unless +5 phoenixes pop. at the time you should have some spore crawlers or hydras up. | ||
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MrPrezbo
92 Posts
On January 13 2011 07:00 Mutarisk wrote: If 6-8 phoenixes are made that early.... you CAN counterattack... Lately I've been favoring 2 base roach openings w/ burrow and speed against protoss. If they do void/phoenix opening, you can punish them or at the very least pin their voids/phoenixes back. I agree, IF he's going 1star. But I'm worried that 1star expand now will be a different story, especially if he pumps only phoenix (voids are a pretty useless opener vs. burrow-roach). With that many phoenixes, with a minimal gateway backup, and perhaps a cannon or two, he might be able to stop your timing post-patch, where he wouldn't have been able to pre-patch. Sorry if that's too convoluted lol. Just voicing some of my concerns. But I suppose we'll just have to wait and see. | ||
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
On January 13 2011 07:02 Skyro wrote: Pretty sure phoenix build time is 25 secs w/ 1 CB now, since CB shaves off 10 seconds of build time if you let it run for its full duration. 6.7 according to liquipedia | ||
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LesPhoques
Canada782 Posts
Also just randomly having ovies all over the map would be waste of minerals and zerg will be punished for that. Also forcing zerg going early evo chamber with anti-air is not that bad, gives you detection against quick DT's. | ||
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SubtleArt
2710 Posts
The biggest change I'm finding (this is only from the Zerg perspective so take that for what its worth) is that protoss players can now respond much quicker to broodlord switches, and I think that might have been the primary reason for the change in the first place. It kinda sucks as zerg, but I definitely feel its a bit more fair since broodlord / roach was such a powerful lategame transition and a little too unforgiving if unscouted for protoss. | ||
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regulator_mk
United States127 Posts
Yeah, liquipedia is wrong. Chronoboost lets the structure do 30 seconds of work in 20 seconds (50% increase). So it shaves off 10 seconds. | ||
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Dave.
Ireland272 Posts
On January 13 2011 07:00 Mutarisk wrote: If 6-8 phoenixes are made that early.... you CAN counterattack... Lately I've been favoring 2 base roach openings w/ burrow and speed against protoss. If they do void/phoenix opening, you can punish them or at the very least pin their voids/phoenixes back. My brother plays Zerg and I've noticed he goes 2 base speedling with a very early plus one sometimes as it's quite good against 4 gate pushes but I'd imagine it would be good against these phoenix openings too, with the counter attacking opportunities and option to throw down a few spore crawlers if needed. | ||
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floor exercise
Canada5847 Posts
On January 13 2011 07:11 regulator_mk wrote: Yeah, liquipedia is wrong. Chronoboost lets the structure do 30 seconds of work in 20 seconds (50% increase). So it shaves off 10 seconds. Chronoboost only lasts 20 seconds | ||
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Treemonkeys
United States2082 Posts
I'm sure it will change as people figure out better timings to use phoenix. | ||
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MrPrezbo
92 Posts
On January 13 2011 07:11 Dave. wrote: My brother plays Zerg and I've noticed he goes 2 base speedling with a very early plus one sometimes as it's quite good against 4 gate pushes but I'd imagine it would be good against these phoenix openings too, with the counter attacking opportunities and option to throw down a few spore crawlers if needed. That's a good call, I think. I'm a fan of hydra-ling in certain situations, and I may need to add this to my list. | ||
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DESOUL
Moldova40 Posts
On January 13 2011 06:43 dshsdhk wrote: nice that Blizzard just made MUTASLISK totally useless on this matchup, could even remove this unit @ zvp rofl. User was warned for this post Only difference is that Phoenixes won't win you the game and they can't attack ground, plus they are freakin more expensive then mutalisks, so i don't see how going mass phoenix will stop the Zergs freaking hundred lings chewing on your entrance. | ||
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Telcontar
United Kingdom16710 Posts
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Tyler214365
51 Posts
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optical630
United Kingdom768 Posts
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regulator_mk
United States127 Posts
Yeah, and 50% of 20 seconds is 10 seconds... In 20 seconds of game time, it does 20+10=30 seconds of building, saving 10 seconds... | ||
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BadWolf0
United States300 Posts
and yeah qq on the brood lord transition  at gold/plat getting broods usually means win if you have economy (at least from my games seemed like below dia they didn't know how to hold them off as easily) but i feel like that won't be as true now *sigh* . | ||
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floor exercise
Canada5847 Posts
On January 13 2011 07:16 regulator_mk wrote: Yeah, and 50% of 20 seconds is 10 seconds... In 20 seconds of game time, it does 20+10=30 seconds of building, saving 10 seconds... It increases the speed by 50% That is not doubling the speed, that is speed x 1.5 | ||
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Pinski
United States126 Posts
Which is why he said for 30 seconds of work gets done in 20 seconds. Chronoboost lasts 20 seconds, and allows you to do 1.5 seconds of work in 1 second. So 20 seconds of chronoboost is 30 seconds of production. Thus it shaves off 10 seconds. | ||
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