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United States12255 Posts
On January 17 2011 06:15 Mendelfist wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2011 02:50 Azzur wrote:
This happens because the Master league reset the players' ratings back to around 2300 pts. What happens is that your points are reset to your spent bonus points +73. This happens for all leagues and for both promotion and demotion, and it has been like this from the beginning. It's strange that nobody has discovered it until now.
In our defense, it wasn't very obvious until everyone started getting tied for points after promotion into the Master league. Outside of a few people, nobody really tracked their bonus pool consumption so this made it very mysterious. Nevertheless, we're going to see what exactly we can gain from tracking promotions using a tool that Vanick is developing.
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Question : Does your bonus pool disappear when you get into Master League?
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United States12255 Posts
On January 17 2011 09:11 DooMDash wrote:
Question : Does your bonus pool disappear when you get into Master League?
No. Master league is really no different from any other league.
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How long did it take you guys to hit diamond? I've won 13/15 of my past 15 games, and they were all vs masters or top diamond. Still not getting promoted.
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On January 16 2011 09:34 Nevy wrote:
So if only the top 2% of diamond gets into masters, does that mean eventually the master's league will get full? No one else could enter unless people get demoted?
i'm of the opinion that the number of masters league players will increase over time, the same way diamond increased. lets count it as the days pass by
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My little brother plays non-stop (he's ~2800 Diamond) and he still hasn't been promoted to Master yet, even though he's been on a really good winning streak since the patch came out and he's considerably higher than many of the Master people he's played against (in both points and in W/L ratio).
He's very frustrated that he hasn't been moved up, since the highest level players are supposed to be moved up and he sees many players who are much lower than him being moved up. It's not that he thinks he's the best; it's just that he sees a lot of worse players already in the Master league.
I just told him to keep playing, since the promotion is probably just as random as the lower league promotions. I didn't think the Master league would be any more straightforward to be promoted to than any other league. High Diamond is currently the equivalent of Masters anyway, right?
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I could probably get into Masters if I laddered a week or so (I'm not good enough to one day it lol) but then I feel like I betrayed my name..... decisions decisions...
Thanks for the cool info though  ! Awesome thread!
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United States12255 Posts
On January 17 2011 13:24 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
My little brother plays non-stop (he's ~2800 Diamond) and he still hasn't been promoted to Master yet, even though he's been on a really good winning streak since the patch came out and he's considerably higher than many of the Master people he's played against (in both points and in W/L ratio).
He's very frustrated that he hasn't been moved up, since the highest level players are supposed to be moved up and he sees many players who are much lower than him being moved up. It's not that he thinks he's the best; it's just that he sees a lot of worse players already in the Master league.
I just told him to keep playing, since the promotion is probably just as random as the lower league promotions. I didn't think the Master league would be any more straightforward to be promoted to than any other league. High Diamond is currently the equivalent of Masters anyway, right?
Did you read the thread at all? Do you understand how the system works at all? Points determine nothing with regard to promotion.
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On January 17 2011 06:15 Mendelfist wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2011 02:50 Azzur wrote:
This happens because the Master league reset the players' ratings back to around 2300 pts. What happens is that your points are reset to your spent bonus points +73. This happens for all leagues and for both promotion and demotion, and it has been like this from the beginning. It's strange that nobody has discovered it until now.
I was aware of this, but I just said 2300 but didn't mention the qualifier that all bonus pool pts are spent.
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On January 17 2011 13:27 Excalibur_Z wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2011 13:24 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
My little brother plays non-stop (he's ~2800 Diamond) and he still hasn't been promoted to Master yet, even though he's been on a really good winning streak since the patch came out and he's considerably higher than many of the Master people he's played against (in both points and in W/L ratio).
He's very frustrated that he hasn't been moved up, since the highest level players are supposed to be moved up and he sees many players who are much lower than him being moved up. It's not that he thinks he's the best; it's just that he sees a lot of worse players already in the Master league.
I just told him to keep playing, since the promotion is probably just as random as the lower league promotions. I didn't think the Master league would be any more straightforward to be promoted to than any other league. High Diamond is currently the equivalent of Masters anyway, right? Did you read the thread at all? Do you understand how the system works at all? Points determine nothing with regard to promotion.
the pts in masters is real mmr or theres still a hidden rating ?
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On January 17 2011 14:18 desrow wrote:
the pts in masters is real mmr or theres still a hidden rating ?
No in masters your points will still be inflated by bonus pool. Your matchmaking is still hidden in masters, just as with every other league.
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Well, i've read now multiple times that someone who gets promoted loses all his points (except bonus pool) but will then gain more points with his wins until it reflects his MMR.
But, I was 2800-2900 diamond before promotion, and after promotion into Masters i only get about 10-11 points per win and more often lose more per win (12-13pts). I know this is probably on purpose, but is this the same with every Diamond player of approximately my rank before promotion?
Because this basically means I lose more points than I win if I play on a 50//50 win loss base (which is annoying, and making it hard to gain ranks on ladder.).
It just seems so 'unfair' (although I know it's not) with already a 3,3k pt player in my league.
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You win and lose based on your mmr and rating relative to the opponents mmr.
If you are gaining little and losing much, you are facing lower mmr players than yourself.
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On January 15 2011 01:12 stiknork wrote:From your OP: Show nested quote +Rankings are not awarding properly for Master League
We are looking into an issue with rankings and point awards in Master League and should have a resolution as soon as possible. We are again sorry for any inconvenience this has caused I assume this is referring to the bug that has everyone favored against everyone? Because that's what I'm talking about. Not sure if it's still the case, but many players have at least gained an easy +700-900 points from it.
Not the case anymore. I got even and me slightly favoured etc. And it said it was fixed in OP too.
@Excalibur
The favoured / even etc status of a match depends on my MMR vs my opponents shown points right?
My opponent yesterday was a 2600 rated Master and I was favoured over him. This means that my MMR is higher than 2600 Master rating right?
I was inactive for 10 weeks or so (thx wow  ) thus my bonus pool before promotion was quite high and now I'm at 1500 Master with 1k bonus pool points or so.
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On January 17 2011 06:02 13_Doomblaze_37 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2011 01:18 WhiteDog wrote:
Going to master league would have been a fine goal, except you don't know shit about how far you are from it.
You do know shit about how far you are from it, its not hard at all to figure out. Look at who youre playing against, if you're winning against everybody in diamond who youre playing against and going even, or more than even, with people in masters, you will get promoted. Thats how it works for every other league, theres no reason for masters to be different. In the beginning of masters, people who were higher than a certain mmr got promoted instantly, because they needed to fill up divisions, same as how diamond used to be.
Seriously, it's absolutly random to get promoted. I got promoted after playing 7 games after patch, all win, against master player and diamond. I don't why i got promoted after my 7th win.
I know it's easy to give explanation to this league system, but obviously it is not rewarding when you play, you don't know when you get promoted (why this game and not that one? Why today and not yesterday ?). It's very frustrating and I don't see many players, and especially the low tier player, keeping playing in this kind of ladder system.
I think, what most you must understand is the "timing" question. For exemple, a 2000 diamond with say 250-200 and got promoted while a 200-170 2700 diamond is still struggling to get into master league is easy to explain: because the 2000 diamond player was innactive and got his 2000 diamond way back when 2000 diamond was actually a very good rating. His MMR is the same as a 2800-2900 diamond who kept playing.
That's why many people think the bonus pool have something to do with the promotion: it indicate that this player was inactive since a long time, so it's an indicator in a weird way. A 2000 diamond with 1500 bonus pool mean he was 2000 diamond 1 or 2 month ago!
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+ Show Spoiler +
Like this )
Ok, we all talk here about promotion.. I`m still in Diamond, but I have a question.. why is nobody get demoted, or why so less. For example in you get into diamond with letes say 30-10, and after that you lose an your stats will look like 35-30 you shoudl get demoted to platinum. If nobody gets demoted.. in a future far away all will be in the highest league... or the majority. Ok.. my question : do you guys know anybody who got demoted?, for example... why there is still in diamond a player with 47-48% win rate?
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On January 17 2011 15:29 hunts wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2011 14:18 desrow wrote:
the pts in masters is real mmr or theres still a hidden rating ? No in masters your points will still be inflated by bonus pool. Your matchmaking is still hidden in masters, just as with every other league.
Though it seems everyones MMR is consistent across divisions within the masters league from what I'm gathering?
On January 17 2011 13:16 sunsetkid wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2011 09:34 Nevy wrote:
So if only the top 2% of diamond gets into masters, does that mean eventually the master's league will get full? No one else could enter unless people get demoted? i'm of the opinion that the number of masters league players will increase over time, the same way diamond increased. lets count it as the days pass by
And the size of the masters league shouldn't grow more than 2%. The only way it would "grow" is in size of players, but that would mean that the overall player base across every division and every league would have to increase. The 2% in masters league would never increase, just how much 2% actually means.
On January 17 2011 22:48 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2011 06:02 13_Doomblaze_37 wrote:On January 15 2011 01:18 WhiteDog wrote:
Going to master league would have been a fine goal, except you don't know shit about how far you are from it.
You do know shit about how far you are from it, its not hard at all to figure out. Look at who youre playing against, if you're winning against everybody in diamond who youre playing against and going even, or more than even, with people in masters, you will get promoted. Thats how it works for every other league, theres no reason for masters to be different. In the beginning of masters, people who were higher than a certain mmr got promoted instantly, because they needed to fill up divisions, same as how diamond used to be. Seriously, it's absolutly random to get promoted. I got promoted after playing 7 games after patch, all win, against master player and diamond. I don't why i got promoted after my 7th win. I know it's easy to give explanation to this league system, but obviously it is not rewarding when you play, you don't know when you get promoted (why this game and not that one? Why today and not yesterday ?). It's very frustrating and I don't see many players, and especially the low tier player, keeping playing in this kind of ladder system. I think, what most you must understand is the "timing" question. For exemple, a 2000 diamond with say 250-200 and got promoted while a 200-170 2700 diamond is still struggling to get into master league is easy to explain: because the 2000 diamond player was innactive and got his 2000 diamond way back when 2000 diamond was actually a very good rating. His MMR is the same as a 2800-2900 diamond who kept playing. That's why many people think the bonus pool have something to do with the promotion: it indicate that this player was inactive since a long time, so it's an indicator in a weird way. A 2000 diamond with 1500 bonus pool mean he was 2000 diamond 1 or 2 month ago!
It's not that random. You're kidding yourself if you believe this. Your hidden MMR was not high enough to get added to masters league. Most people had to play 1 match to get promoted because they already met the requirements. You were probably lacking points so the system didn't promote you. It's not like diamond where players were getting promoted left and right.
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On January 17 2011 13:24 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
My little brother plays non-stop (he's ~2800 Diamond) and he still hasn't been promoted to Master yet, even though he's been on a really good winning streak since the patch came out and he's considerably higher than many of the Master people he's played against (in both points and in W/L ratio).
He's very frustrated that he hasn't been moved up, since the highest level players are supposed to be moved up and he sees many players who are much lower than him being moved up. It's not that he thinks he's the best; it's just that he sees a lot of worse players already in the Master league.
I just told him to keep playing, since the promotion is probably just as random as the lower league promotions. I didn't think the Master league would be any more straightforward to be promoted to than any other league. High Diamond is currently the equivalent of Masters anyway, right?
It was said in Blizzcon (I think) that the promotion system is conservative. Or in other words, it won't promote you until it is absolutely sure you can handle the next league. When you get placed on ladder for first time it's easier to get promoted (or demoted) since the system isn't very accurate with low number of played games.
This means that you have to raise your hidden MMR to match the levels of current masters, or into the range that Blizz accepts into masters. It may take a long while to raise your MMR to these levels. Even then briefly getting into that range isn't enough, you need to stay there for a while.
I maintained over 60% win ratio for over 70 matches before I got promoted from platinum to diamond. It takes a while. Winning streaks help with getting promoted but even then you have to be prepeared for a long, long journey.
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please please i think the master league was created so people in TL who keeps saying "im a 2000+ diamond" just set their theorycraft to be legitimate, now realize that anything they have to contribute will easily be proven worthless. Now they can't get into this league and they are going nuts about it because yer... muahahah
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EPT
