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United States12244 Posts
On January 13 2011 04:49 Neo.NEt wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2011 04:44 Excalibur_Z wrote:On January 13 2011 04:30 decaf wrote:On January 13 2011 04:00 Excalibur_Z wrote:On January 13 2011 03:42 decaf wrote:On January 13 2011 03:34 Excalibur_Z wrote:On January 13 2011 03:14 decaf wrote:
Do you already know how many masters leagues there are going to be for each region, excalibur? Divisions, you mean? It's going to depend on how many players resume playing as a result of the patch. I'd estimate 16-20 divisions to start on the NA server, then slowly trickling out from there as either more Master players go inactive or more players in the lower leagues come back from inactive status. Yeah divisions.. didn't get much to sleep for days now.. There are already 25 divisions for the US (if you check sc2ranks) and 16 for the EU, but I kinda don't think that's gonna be as high as it will get, but the ratio (25 : 16) will remain the same. It's cool to have a league only including so few divisions. But I think even the masters league needs modifiers and it may very well have, because I'm in the same division as mondragon and a friend of mine (who's better than me) is in the same division as WhiteRa and another one (who's better too) got Madfrog. So there might be a modifier, dunno though. I'm still not seeing any evidence of modifiers for Master league, they still seem to be popping up only one division at a time (sc2ranks isn't the most accurate source for this because divisions aren't all updated simultaneously). Inevitably what we'll see is those very good players start separating themselves from the pack, just as what happened with Diamond league only to a more obvious degree. I don't see the pros seperating from the non-pros division-wise. I don't know how it looks like in NA but in the EU the pros are WAY more spread out now. They used to be in like 2 division, now there are 0-3 pros per division (most commonly there will be one well-known pro per division) I'm not suggesting that pros would all be lumped into a single or pair of Master divisions. I'm saying their points will increase more rapidly than other players, and that will be more evident because there are no division tiers in Master league obfuscating things. The only reason so many well-known players were grouped together in the same 2-3 Diamond divisions (which were all not coincidentally S-Rank) is because they were able to rise to the highest tier of Diamond. Since you can't get moved from one division to another, isn't the reason a lot of pros got into the same division because they were more likely to be the first ones to be promoted to diamond? I didn't get to diamond until a month after the game came out when all of the pros were already in a full diamond division. I could have gone 2000-0 and I still wouldn't have gotten put in one of their divisions, right?
Divisions cap out so that's immaterial, but you would have been put in a Diamond division of equal rank if you were playing at their level. Ret did, lalush did, Nazgul did, all those guys joined the NA server late but ended up in S-Rank divisions.
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On January 13 2011 04:52 Excalibur_Z wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2011 04:49 Neo.NEt wrote:On January 13 2011 04:44 Excalibur_Z wrote:On January 13 2011 04:30 decaf wrote:On January 13 2011 04:00 Excalibur_Z wrote:On January 13 2011 03:42 decaf wrote:On January 13 2011 03:34 Excalibur_Z wrote:On January 13 2011 03:14 decaf wrote:
Do you already know how many masters leagues there are going to be for each region, excalibur? Divisions, you mean? It's going to depend on how many players resume playing as a result of the patch. I'd estimate 16-20 divisions to start on the NA server, then slowly trickling out from there as either more Master players go inactive or more players in the lower leagues come back from inactive status. Yeah divisions.. didn't get much to sleep for days now.. There are already 25 divisions for the US (if you check sc2ranks) and 16 for the EU, but I kinda don't think that's gonna be as high as it will get, but the ratio (25 : 16) will remain the same. It's cool to have a league only including so few divisions. But I think even the masters league needs modifiers and it may very well have, because I'm in the same division as mondragon and a friend of mine (who's better than me) is in the same division as WhiteRa and another one (who's better too) got Madfrog. So there might be a modifier, dunno though. I'm still not seeing any evidence of modifiers for Master league, they still seem to be popping up only one division at a time (sc2ranks isn't the most accurate source for this because divisions aren't all updated simultaneously). Inevitably what we'll see is those very good players start separating themselves from the pack, just as what happened with Diamond league only to a more obvious degree. I don't see the pros seperating from the non-pros division-wise. I don't know how it looks like in NA but in the EU the pros are WAY more spread out now. They used to be in like 2 division, now there are 0-3 pros per division (most commonly there will be one well-known pro per division) I'm not suggesting that pros would all be lumped into a single or pair of Master divisions. I'm saying their points will increase more rapidly than other players, and that will be more evident because there are no division tiers in Master league obfuscating things. The only reason so many well-known players were grouped together in the same 2-3 Diamond divisions (which were all not coincidentally S-Rank) is because they were able to rise to the highest tier of Diamond. Since you can't get moved from one division to another, isn't the reason a lot of pros got into the same division because they were more likely to be the first ones to be promoted to diamond? I didn't get to diamond until a month after the game came out when all of the pros were already in a full diamond division. I could have gone 2000-0 and I still wouldn't have gotten put in one of their divisions, right? Divisions cap out so that's immaterial, but you would have been put in a Diamond division of equal rank if you were playing at their level. Ret did, lalush did, Nazgul did, all those guys joined the NA server late but ended up in S-Rank divisions.
What I don't understand is that you get put into your diamond division like 30 games in. Let's say I play 30 games, get put into a bad division, and then I let HuK play on my account (or I just get really, really good all of a sudden which isn't impossible). He's going to be stuck in a terrible division forever isn't he?
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United States12244 Posts
On January 13 2011 05:01 Neo.NEt wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2011 04:52 Excalibur_Z wrote:On January 13 2011 04:49 Neo.NEt wrote:On January 13 2011 04:44 Excalibur_Z wrote:On January 13 2011 04:30 decaf wrote:On January 13 2011 04:00 Excalibur_Z wrote:On January 13 2011 03:42 decaf wrote:On January 13 2011 03:34 Excalibur_Z wrote:On January 13 2011 03:14 decaf wrote:
Do you already know how many masters leagues there are going to be for each region, excalibur? Divisions, you mean? It's going to depend on how many players resume playing as a result of the patch. I'd estimate 16-20 divisions to start on the NA server, then slowly trickling out from there as either more Master players go inactive or more players in the lower leagues come back from inactive status. Yeah divisions.. didn't get much to sleep for days now.. There are already 25 divisions for the US (if you check sc2ranks) and 16 for the EU, but I kinda don't think that's gonna be as high as it will get, but the ratio (25 : 16) will remain the same. It's cool to have a league only including so few divisions. But I think even the masters league needs modifiers and it may very well have, because I'm in the same division as mondragon and a friend of mine (who's better than me) is in the same division as WhiteRa and another one (who's better too) got Madfrog. So there might be a modifier, dunno though. I'm still not seeing any evidence of modifiers for Master league, they still seem to be popping up only one division at a time (sc2ranks isn't the most accurate source for this because divisions aren't all updated simultaneously). Inevitably what we'll see is those very good players start separating themselves from the pack, just as what happened with Diamond league only to a more obvious degree. I don't see the pros seperating from the non-pros division-wise. I don't know how it looks like in NA but in the EU the pros are WAY more spread out now. They used to be in like 2 division, now there are 0-3 pros per division (most commonly there will be one well-known pro per division) I'm not suggesting that pros would all be lumped into a single or pair of Master divisions. I'm saying their points will increase more rapidly than other players, and that will be more evident because there are no division tiers in Master league obfuscating things. The only reason so many well-known players were grouped together in the same 2-3 Diamond divisions (which were all not coincidentally S-Rank) is because they were able to rise to the highest tier of Diamond. Since you can't get moved from one division to another, isn't the reason a lot of pros got into the same division because they were more likely to be the first ones to be promoted to diamond? I didn't get to diamond until a month after the game came out when all of the pros were already in a full diamond division. I could have gone 2000-0 and I still wouldn't have gotten put in one of their divisions, right? Divisions cap out so that's immaterial, but you would have been put in a Diamond division of equal rank if you were playing at their level. Ret did, lalush did, Nazgul did, all those guys joined the NA server late but ended up in S-Rank divisions. What I don't understand is that you get put into your diamond division like 30 games in. Let's say I play 30 games, get put into a bad division, and then I let HuK play on my account (or I just get really, really good all of a sudden which isn't impossible). He's going to be stuck in a terrible division forever isn't he?
Yes. Generally speaking though, by most measurements, skill doesn't dramatically improve like that. In the events that it does (say you discover a new strategy) then you would be promoted into a completely different league instead. I don't know if they anticipated players who were good enough to get into Diamond improving enough to be matched against the highest end of Diamond, so that may be yet another reason for the Master league.
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I'm a pretty consistent 2600 Diamond player with no bonus pool, and I get about a 50% win rate against people my level.. meaning my MMR and points are properly aligned.
I've played like 12 games since 1.2 with no promotion to Masters, I wonder if I'm just below the cutoff or something?
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Exacalibur,
What do you think is going to happen as master league progress, for i.e 1month from now.
Will a lot of people be demoted back to diamond?
How i figure is that right now is very early, so just for simplicity sake, say there is 1000 spots available in masters but 2000 people acceptable (based on MMR). If the bottom 1000 of the 2000 all palyed 1 game and won they would all be in masters.
Now if the top 1000 players play a game, would the bottom half all be demoted?
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I don't understand how a 1400 rated player can get promoted to masters.... Can someone explain this to me? Sure his record was good but still.
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I played 1 game and got promoted. I was a 1000 rated Diamond protoss. Now I'm a 700 rated Master Protoss. My bonus pool was 1700 at the time of promotion.
The guy I beat to get promoted was #1 in his league 2800 diamond terran who shortly after I won, won his next game and was promoted as well.
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The Masterleague is the biggest fail of all times.
It should be a league where only pros and semi-pros are with some very very talented none-pros.
Prepatch there was a super good Diamond league with 80% of all the euro pros. Now all of them got split into Masterleagues mixed with 99.9% nonames. Really stupid....
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On January 13 2011 05:15 GreEny K wrote:
I don't understand how a 1400 rated player can get promoted to masters.... Can someone explain this to me? Sure his record was good but still.
They have explained it several times throughout this post, if you would just read the replies. MMR, not actual rating, is what promotes you.
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On January 12 2011 08:50 Excalibur_Z wrote:
An active player is defined as a player who has not played a certain minimum number of games per week.
is this right? if so i do not understand.. i would think this is the definition of an INACTIVE player
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Greeny et al, points don't matter. It is the MMR that determines promotion/demotion, and this number is hidden.
If at release I played and was a 800 point diamond, then quit and started to play again just now, I would probably be playing 3000+ diamonds because my MMR is that high. My points wouldn't matter in this case, that is the effect of bonus pool. MMR and division points are two standards of measuring a player, it just so happens that one we can see and the other we can't.
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On January 13 2011 04:00 Shikyo wrote:But I normally play vs 2700-3000 players and have only 300 games played, I'd imagine my MMR to be higher than the points if anything.
This is more-or-less happening to me as well. MMR seems to have been left unchanged.
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United States12244 Posts
On January 13 2011 05:20 SlapMySalami wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2011 08:50 Excalibur_Z wrote:
An active player is defined as a player who has not played a certain minimum number of games per week. is this right? if so i do not understand.. i would think this is the definition of an INACTIVE player
haha. You are defined as someone who has not corrected my post, and I therefore did not fix it.
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On January 13 2011 05:19 TheDna wrote:
The Masterleague is the biggest fail of all times.
It should be a league where only pros and semi-pros are with some very very talented none-pros.
Prepatch there was a super good Diamond league with 80% of all the euro pros. Now all of them got split into Masterleagues mixed with 99.9% nonames. Really stupid....
Do you realize that a Grand Master League is coming as well? It seems to describe what you want(a top 200 league basically).
What does it matter if they are in different divisions? I didn't even realize people cared about divisions in the slightest bit. They have no impact on anything. What does it matter if lots of the top top players are divided between a few divisions rather than ALL divisions? I guess I don't understand why divisions matter at all or why you think it is stupid...
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Got promoted on my 2 accounts :
first one has 60 games played, 800 points, facing mostly 2900ish players and placed in a reasonably good division, I played 1 game vs. a 2400 Master, won it (was very very very close), got promoted.
Second account : 2000 points with about 200 games, 600 bonus pool left, i played 5 games and got promoted.
Sounds like MMR is working wonder for me.
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United States12244 Posts
On January 13 2011 05:31 skipdog172 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2011 05:19 TheDna wrote:
The Masterleague is the biggest fail of all times.
It should be a league where only pros and semi-pros are with some very very talented none-pros.
Prepatch there was a super good Diamond league with 80% of all the euro pros. Now all of them got split into Masterleagues mixed with 99.9% nonames. Really stupid.... Do you realize that a Grand Master League is coming as well? It seems to describe what you want(a top 200 league basically). What does it matter if they are in different divisions? I didn't even realize people cared about divisions in the slightest bit. They have no impact on anything. What does it matter if lots of the top top players are divided between a few divisions rather than ALL divisions? I guess I don't understand why divisions matter at all or why you think it is stupid...
Yeah. The points are actually legitimately comparable between Master divisions. You only have to go as far as SC2Ranks to view a complete list of Master players and their points in one compiled list.
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Prepatch there was a super good Diamond league with 80% of all the euro pros. Now all of them got split into Masterleagues mixed with 99.9% nonames. Really stupid...
I don't get why it matters. The divisions don't mean anything, it isn't like you compete against only people from your division, or there is something gained by being first place in it. The highest MMR players still play the other highest MMR players. Aside from just being able to quickly look at one division to see comparative points(which you can just go on sc2ranks to look at) I don't see how it matters.
Maybe since they removed the modifiers across the masters divisions points might mean a bit more to some degree, but really until they just start showing people's MMRs the whole points/divisions thing is dumb and doesn't mean anything really.
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On January 13 2011 05:22 tehemperorer wrote:
Greeny et al, points don't matter. It is the MMR that determines promotion/demotion, and this number is hidden.
If at release I played and was a 800 point diamond, then quit and started to play again just now, I would probably be playing 3000+ diamonds because my MMR is that high. My points wouldn't matter in this case, that is the effect of bonus pool. MMR and division points are two standards of measuring a player, it just so happens that one we can see and the other we can't.
aha, well that blows. Im at 2400 beating 2900 players and then ill lose to an 1800 player so I doubt im going anywhere.
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every single person is favored against me now, and others have similar problems. I guess this already has been posted, but still, +1 then
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Why they didnt put in Grand master aswell ?
Isnt it "that" big difference to simply take the Top 200 and make it happen ?
*Seems to be a waste of time to not release Grand Master aswell.
**But ok; give the System a month and it should at least "balance" out somehow.
***Currently i feel like the peops i played in Master are way worser than the ones i played in Diamant a week before ...
Beside that pretty much everyone is "favoured" all the time no matter what i gain around +20 points and lose -0 ; so far it seems completly unexplainable compared to existing systems in "non" master.
But this part is what i think might fix itself in the next month ; otherwise they must fix it asap
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EPT
