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On January 13 2011 02:06 politik wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2011 01:50 skipdog172 wrote:
What are you talking about? Stop with the elitism. I haven't seen anybody post who isn't deserving of Master League. I'm a 2200 diamond who has been working hard on improving, and I won't get in "just by being active". I have to improve my game a lot. I'm so sick of comments like this. Lol elitist, I wish. I consider myself very mediocre at this game, especially solo. I thought master's league would be elite players, semipro or just below. If someone like me can get into master's it means nothing at all.
Ok, so you have an ELO of 2700+ and you consider yourself bad. That's fine. I'm just sick of the "ANYBODY CAN GET INTO MASTER LEAGUE IF YOU ARE ACTIVE" crap. No, not anybody can get to that ELO. I just don't understand why some of you want to belittle the Master League. We get that there is a gap between the top top players and 2700 elo, but that does not make getting to 2700 elo easy. You clearly want Master League to be top 200 or something like that, but that really alienates a lot of players. I just hate the whole attitude of "if you aren't top 200, you are a horrible player". Yes, compared to those top pros, all of us are pretty horrible. I just don't see a point in trying to belittling other people's accomplishment in making Master League and trying to point out that it doesn't mean anything. It just seems rude and unnecessary.
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Wow, people like you are the reason the ladder system is so stupid and convoluted. The whole point of a "master" league is that NOT EVERYONE SHOULD BE ABLE TO GET IN. Not everyone is created equal, some have more talent that others. The very top tier should take both talent and hard work, and people should be proud to attain that level.
That being said, once there is a ladder reset, hopefully it will become much harder to get into higher leagues since the player pool will be reduced by like 90%.
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Do you have to win to get promoted or just play?
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On January 13 2011 02:37 politik wrote:
Wow, people like you are the reason the ladder system is so stupid and convoluted. The whole point of a "master" league is that NOT EVERYONE SHOULD BE ABLE TO GET IN. Not everyone is created equal, some have more talent that others. The very top tier should take both talent and hard work, and people should be proud to attain that level.
That being said, once there is a ladder reset, hopefully it will become much harder to get into higher leagues since the player pool will be reduced by like 90%.
Starcraft isn't something governed by talent. It's practice, pure practice.
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On January 13 2011 02:37 politik wrote:
Wow, people like you are the reason the ladder system is so stupid and convoluted. The whole point of a "master" league is that NOT EVERYONE SHOULD BE ABLE TO GET IN. Not everyone is created equal, some have more talent that others. The very top tier should take both talent and hard work, and people should be proud to attain that level.
That being said, once there is a ladder reset, hopefully it will become much harder to get into higher leagues since the player pool will be reduced by like 90%.
no it wont. ppl keep their mmr and the one placement is merely a activity check.
the master league does exactly what it should. create a league for the top 2%(or wahtever the real number now is) . thats what it does and nothing more. and at some point well have the gradnmasters for the top 200.
i do think too that im pretty crappy at this game and i didnt even play for 2 months until last week. but im in masters and a shitton of people apparently cant get in there.
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On January 13 2011 02:40 eveo wrote:
Starcraft isn't something governed by talent. It's practice, pure practice.
This is what untalented people say as an excuse. "Oh that guy tries so hard, that's why he's better than me."
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On January 13 2011 02:40 eveo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2011 02:37 politik wrote:
Wow, people like you are the reason the ladder system is so stupid and convoluted. The whole point of a "master" league is that NOT EVERYONE SHOULD BE ABLE TO GET IN. Not everyone is created equal, some have more talent that others. The very top tier should take both talent and hard work, and people should be proud to attain that level.
That being said, once there is a ladder reset, hopefully it will become much harder to get into higher leagues since the player pool will be reduced by like 90%. Starcraft isn't something governed by talent. It's practice, pure practice.
??? How do you figure...According to your logic if you have 1000 people playing sc2 for the same amount of hours every single day, they will all be the same skill level at the end of the day...
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United States5162 Posts
On January 13 2011 02:42 politik wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2011 02:40 eveo wrote:
Starcraft isn't something governed by talent. It's practice, pure practice. This is what untalented people say as an excuse. "Oh that guy tries so hard, that's why he's better than me."
Talent, or the lack there of, can be overcome through sheer practice and determination. It's when talent and determination combine that you get something ridiculous like Flash or JD.
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United States5162 Posts
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Untrue. It's been empirically shown that in sport, the only time where talent creates divergence from the pack is at the very very top level (also the very bottom level, but I don't think we're talking about that in this thread).
The way it's explained is this: In something like Starcraft, at the mid-diamond (2400-2500) level, every player is relatively equal in the sense that they have no professional coaching, no Star-specific physical training, and a lot of other things that make them mediocre compared to top diamond (3200+) players. Since talent requires cultivation by proper coaching and proper practice, the relative talents of the mid-diamond players don't play a role in their performance. The ones that practice harder and more effectively will get better, even if they have relatively little talent.
At the top level (and I'm talking Korean team house top) EVERY player is well coached, most of them train physically and mentally specifically to perform better in Starcraft, and have a very strict practice routine. When everyone has those fundamental bases of top sport performance, the thing that can create divergence between the players is what people label as talent.
Example: Let's say we took Ret and put him in the same house as Jaedong. They both did the same physical training and stuck to the same diet. Let's also say that Ret practiced the same amount as Jaedong. (Noone can ever match the pure amount of practice that man does, but let's stipulate that Ret could.) If they played 20 games, Jaedong would win all 20. He has an unbelievable talent, something that others cannot match even if they could match his work ethic.
Ben Hogan (one of the most legendary golfers of the past) said that there are only three ways to beat someone. You outwork them, you out-think them, or you intimidate them. That's very very true for the vast majority of players in any sport, but it does not apply at the tip-top level. Given two players with the same training regimen and thought process, the scales will tip in favour of the one who has more talent.
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Do you already know how many masters leagues there are going to be for each region, excalibur?
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The masters league system is pretty ingenious thinking from blizzard.
A lot of players are complaining about how easy it is to get into masters league, but I don't think the point is for elite players to be in a league on their own. Grandmasters will serve this purpose.
Instead, they put the players that don't care about fluff and division modifiers in a league. This way they can actually see where they stand.
At the same time the players that are more casual get to keep their feeling of accomplishment.
It's a great move. Now saying, "I'm xxxx points masters" will be more revealing, instead of wondering if they are in an a,b,c,d-rated division.
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10% of the total amount of divisions currently in Diamond should be about how many masters league divisions would be created..
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On January 13 2011 02:37 politik wrote:
Wow, people like you are the reason the ladder system is so stupid and convoluted. The whole point of a "master" league is that NOT EVERYONE SHOULD BE ABLE TO GET IN. Not everyone is created equal, some have more talent that others. The very top tier should take both talent and hard work, and people should be proud to attain that level.
That being said, once there is a ladder reset, hopefully it will become much harder to get into higher leagues since the player pool will be reduced by like 90%.
Well guess what NOT EVERYONE WILL BE ABLE TO GET IN. Everyone in this thread is acting like top 2% is something easy to achieve. If that isn't hard enough to get in for you keep on trying for the Grand Master League/Top 200.
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Anyone hear of anyone being demoted from masters?
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Sorry if it was already mentioned here, i couldnt read the whole thing but, does bonus pool rise in masters? in about 6hrs not one point returned on my acc.
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TBH it sounds like people have a better chance of getting into masters if they are inactive as we have seen a bunch of 1200 - 2000 players get in who have insane high bonus pools. So like if I had just stopped playing 1500 I wonder if I would have been invited to masters league as oppose to continue playing up to 2400 and get no promotion, also I bet that guy who posted who said hes 2700+ and got no promotion doesn't have a big bonus pool.
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United States12255 Posts
On January 13 2011 03:14 decaf wrote:
Do you already know how many masters leagues there are going to be for each region, excalibur?
Divisions, you mean? It's going to depend on how many players resume playing as a result of the patch. I'd estimate 16-20 divisions to start on the NA server, then slowly trickling out from there as either more Master players go inactive or more players in the lower leagues come back from inactive status.
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On January 13 2011 03:34 Excalibur_Z wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2011 03:14 decaf wrote:
Do you already know how many masters leagues there are going to be for each region, excalibur? Divisions, you mean? It's going to depend on how many players resume playing as a result of the patch. I'd estimate 16-20 divisions to start on the NA server, then slowly trickling out from there as either more Master players go inactive or more players in the lower leagues come back from inactive status.
Why would it trikle out? because the amount of active players decreas? therefores 2% of population decreases?
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On January 13 2011 03:34 Excalibur_Z wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2011 03:14 decaf wrote:
Do you already know how many masters leagues there are going to be for each region, excalibur? Divisions, you mean? It's going to depend on how many players resume playing as a result of the patch. I'd estimate 16-20 divisions to start on the NA server, then slowly trickling out from there as either more Master players go inactive or more players in the lower leagues come back from inactive status.
Yeah divisions.. didn't get much to sleep for days now..
There are already 25 divisions for the US (if you check sc2ranks) and 16 for the EU, but I kinda don't think that's gonna be as high as it will get, but the ratio (25 : 16) will remain the same. It's cool to have a league only including so few divisions.
But I think even the masters league needs modifiers and it may very well have, because I'm in the same division as mondragon and a friend of mine (who's better than me) is in the same division as WhiteRa and another one (who's better too) got Madfrog. So there might be a modifier, dunno though.
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EPT
