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United States12240 Posts
On January 13 2011 07:47 g.o- wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2011 07:32 Zacsafus wrote:
I keep playing master league players and beating them but still no promotion :S beaten like 4 now but i have lost to other diamonds in between, generally protoss -.- but anyways its beginning to really annoy me now lol.
Im 2700 or there abouts but ive only got like 40 more wins than losses, any1 else know what their win % was when they were promoted and what kind of oppoenents they were facing D: From what I understand, win % and league points have NOTHING to do with your promotion. As stated here several times, your MMR is what triggers your promotion. You may have 2700 points but that doesn't mean your MMR is high enough for promotion, yet. Even if you've been playing vs masters level players, your MMR takes time to build and is probably adjusted every X games by bnet. For example, your hidden MMR might be at 180 and the criteria for masters promotion is 200. Yes you have beaten masters level players but you've also lost to players in diamond, this probably affects the calculation of points after say, 15 games where it determines your new MMR. Some people have stated that they've played only 1 game to get promoted, this was also my case. In this scenario I think that these players are well above the 200 mark used in my previous example, thus the promotion is immediate after the first win. All I have to suggest to you is to keep playing games as that is the only way to increase your hidden MMR which decides your eligibility. Btw, my win rate was 53% when I got promoted, doesn't mean a thing.
Moving average. It doesn't check your MMR in intervals, it checks your moving average after every game to determine your eligibility.
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On January 13 2011 07:57 Excalibur_Z wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2011 07:47 g.o- wrote:On January 13 2011 07:32 Zacsafus wrote:
I keep playing master league players and beating them but still no promotion :S beaten like 4 now but i have lost to other diamonds in between, generally protoss -.- but anyways its beginning to really annoy me now lol.
Im 2700 or there abouts but ive only got like 40 more wins than losses, any1 else know what their win % was when they were promoted and what kind of oppoenents they were facing D: From what I understand, win % and league points have NOTHING to do with your promotion. As stated here several times, your MMR is what triggers your promotion. You may have 2700 points but that doesn't mean your MMR is high enough for promotion, yet. Even if you've been playing vs masters level players, your MMR takes time to build and is probably adjusted every X games by bnet. For example, your hidden MMR might be at 180 and the criteria for masters promotion is 200. Yes you have beaten masters level players but you've also lost to players in diamond, this probably affects the calculation of points after say, 15 games where it determines your new MMR. Some people have stated that they've played only 1 game to get promoted, this was also my case. In this scenario I think that these players are well above the 200 mark used in my previous example, thus the promotion is immediate after the first win. All I have to suggest to you is to keep playing games as that is the only way to increase your hidden MMR which decides your eligibility. Btw, my win rate was 53% when I got promoted, doesn't mean a thing. Moving average. It doesn't check your MMR in intervals, it checks your moving average after every game to determine your eligibility.
Oh cool, guess I had the wrong perception all along, but none the less the same concept applies.
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On January 13 2011 06:34 danl9rm wrote:
Blizzard just doesn't get it, I guess.
The difference between the top 2% of players in a region and the top 200 is Huge! The difference is larger than the entire other 98%.
And anyone that has ever played competitively and been in the top 20/200 in the world in their respective game will know this. It's not even debatable.
The skill curve goes up so fast once you reach the top players it would always end up this way unless you use a different system. There will always be Grand Master League for the top 200 and having a Master League beneath that which currently has 2.5k players on NA doesn't sound too bad if you take in consideration how large the player pool is for NA.
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http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/2053471#blog
"Q: Will the Master League start with the launch of the patch?
A: The top 2% of players from the Diamond League (as determined by our system) will be promoted to the Master league starting with patch 1.2. As with all promotions, Master League placement can only occur after winning a match."
This is strange since people promote after losing all the time. Maybe it's related to their definition of "active" -- it could be that you have to win at least 1 game in the past ~7 or whatever days. And also I guess everyone was reset to inactive status when a new patch came out. So now you have to reactivate by winning a game, and then it sees you are high enough for Master's and puts you there.
That could also explain why these stats:
http://sc2ranks.com/stats/league/all/1/all/7
Don't line up to 2/18/20/20/20/20 -- Bronze players are more likely to have only lost a few games in the last 7 days (no wins), so they are still not counted as active, but sc2ranks does count them as active.
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I would just like to point out that it looks like the match making system is trying to create divisions with a win percentage of 53% in average.
That's why it doesn't create the divisions in succession.
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On January 13 2011 08:39 KillerDucky wrote:http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/2053471#blog"Q: Will the Master League start with the launch of the patch? A: The top 2% of players from the Diamond League (as determined by our system) will be promoted to the Master league starting with patch 1.2. As with all promotions, Master League placement can only occur after winning a match." This is strange since people promote after losing all the time. Maybe it's related to their definition of "active" -- it could be that you have to win at least 1 game in the past ~7 or whatever days. And also I guess everyone was reset to inactive status when a new patch came out. So now you have to reactivate by winning a game, and then it sees you are high enough for Master's and puts you there. That could also explain why these stats: http://sc2ranks.com/stats/league/all/1/all/7Don't line up to 2/18/20/20/20/20 -- Bronze players are more likely to have only lost a few games in the last 7 days (no wins), so they are still not counted as active, but sc2ranks does count them as active.
I dont think it's meant as immidiately after winning. I think it means it as you have to win a game to be promoted. Same as we had demuslim being stuck in platinum with a million points because u have to lose a game within the "moving average" batch to be promoted as well.
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Just got promoted from 2781 (0 bonus pool) diamond to 2342 master (0 bonus pool) after going 18 wins - 15 losses (~2750 -> 2781) with a 4-win streak at the end since 1.2, so I think for those who don't get in after 1 game this is around the minimum cutoff?
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Excalibur, any idea on the domain used to calculate MMR moving averages? (eg how many games back does it look)
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You can't even try to calculate a cutoff if you don't take into consideration the diamond division tier, there are at least 6 tiers on NA server, so 2700 could mean 3000 or 2400, depending what rank are your diamond division.
It's like trying to tell a platinum guy how many points he needs to get into diamond. I've never seen someone telling a platinum that he need to be 2400+ in platinum to be promoted into diamond. What do they all say?? You need to beat other platinum and also some diamond, right? Well, At launch time there was no one at Master League, so it would be impossible, but right now, that's going to be the case for diamond players that want to get promotion to master. The same thing as bronze <-> silver, silver <-> gold etc.
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On January 13 2011 09:07 SDream wrote:
You can't even try to calculate a cutoff if you don't take into consideration the diamond division tier, there are at least 6 tiers on NA server, so 2700 could mean 3000 or 2400, depending what rank are your diamond division.
It's like trying to tell a platinum guy how many points he needs to get into diamond. I've never seen someone telling a platinum that he need to be 2400+ in platinum to be promoted into diamond. What do they all say?? You need to beat other platinum and also some diamond, right? Well, At launch time there was no one at Master League, so it would be impossible, but right now, that's going to be the case for diamond players that want to get promotion to master. The same thing as bronze <-> silver, silver <-> gold etc.
Forgot about that, my bad. My division had a +350 modifier (E class). Also, of the 33 games I played, about 10 were against Master leaguers and my stat against them was 3 - 7 or so, < 50% for sure.
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It seems like everyone i play against in master league is favored. I lose 2-5 points and gain 15-20 . This is very common throughout my buddy list or anyone's record i check in master league. Did you guys figure this out?
We all started around 2300-2400 yesterday. some people are already at 3k+ ...
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On January 13 2011 09:27 hpTheGreat wrote:
It seems like everyone i play against in master league is favored. I lose 2-5 points and gain 15-20 . This is very common throughout my buddy list or anyone's record i check in master league. Did you guys figure this out?
We all started around 2300-2400 yesterday. some people are already at 3k+ ...
People that were promoted into master league has had their points reset to 73 + spent bonus pool.
That's why some players lost up to 800 points, others only lost 130 etc.
This reset means everyone has LESS points than they should have, so yes, everyone will be favored till your points match your MMR once again.
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Ok so I'm at 1k3 with 1k2 bonus pool. I play on EU against mostly Masters / diamond 2k6 to 2k9 players. I've played like 12 games today with like 50% ratio I think. Any chance ill get to masters any time soon if I keep going like that or am I just going to have a tough run up to 2k8 diamond myself and then be stuck because masters will be filled ? 
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lol, that's platinum <-> diamond "why am I not getting promoted?" all over again ^^
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On January 13 2011 09:57 SDream wrote:
lol, that's platinum <-> diamond "why am I not getting promoted?" all over again ^^
Yeah I just realized that, sorry my post does sound kinda retarded in that regard
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This is strange since people promote after losing all the time. Maybe it's related to their definition of "active" -- it could be that you have to win at least 1 game in the past ~7 or whatever days. And also I guess everyone was reset to inactive status when a new patch came out. So now you have to reactivate by winning a game, and then it sees you are high enough for Master's and puts you there.
More likely they didn't mean win literally, they probably just meant that you have to win games (play games) in general in order to be promoted. Which is obvious. Also they're obviously wrong/inaccurate because they said "like all" other promotions, which is false because you can be promoted with a loss as your most recent match.
Ok so I'm at 1k3 with 1k2 bonus pool. I play on EU against mostly Masters / diamond 2k6 to 2k9 players. I've played like 12 games today with like 50% ratio I think. Any chance ill get to masters any time soon if I keep going like that or am I just going to have a tough run up to 2k8 diamond myself and then be stuck because masters will be filled ?
It's just like any league... once you get good enough someone will be demoted and you will take his place. I'd say you definitely belong in Masters, the system can be slow to promote sometimes.
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On January 13 2011 09:34 SDream wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2011 09:27 hpTheGreat wrote:
It seems like everyone i play against in master league is favored. I lose 2-5 points and gain 15-20 . This is very common throughout my buddy list or anyone's record i check in master league. Did you guys figure this out?
We all started around 2300-2400 yesterday. some people are already at 3k+ ... People that were promoted into master league has had their points reset to 73 + spent bonus pool. That's why some players lost up to 800 points, others only lost 130 etc. This reset means everyone has LESS points than they should have, so yes, everyone will be favored till your points match your MMR once again.
Thanks for the reply. Makes sense.
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Ugh, I knew i should have used up my bonus pool before 1.2. Oh well.
Maybe I missed it in this thread, but does anyone know why there are some people with records like 18-10 in the Master League? It just doesn't make any sense to me.
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I don't know how naive this question is but does anyone have a scope of just what MMR you're looking at to get in? I'm guessing you can tell your MMR pretty accurately from what the highest point players you consistently face are (playing lower than that is irrelevant, as theyre likely in a similair situation whereby their MMR exceeds their points)
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EPT
