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On January 03 2011 10:44 Xolo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2011 10:34 Saechiis wrote:On January 03 2011 10:30 Xolo wrote:
So far just about every amazing wc3/sc1 player has been pretty disappointing in sc2 so I don't expect to see Grubby winning gsl or anything. The most amazing SC1 players are still playing BW, the less amazing ones have won all GSL's  I never really followed the sc scene but I'm almost certain that Boxer and Nada were supposed to be some of the best sc1 players, and while they're obviously not doing completely horrible in sc2, they're not dominating by any mean.
Why do people make crappy posts like this?
1. Look at the right panel of this webpage and ask yourself if guys like stork, flash and jaedong currently play sc2 - not professionally.
2. Look at the 3 winners of gsl so far. All ex-bw pros - none dominant in bw.
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On January 03 2011 10:44 Xolo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2011 10:34 Saechiis wrote:On January 03 2011 10:30 Xolo wrote:
So far just about every amazing wc3/sc1 player has been pretty disappointing in sc2 so I don't expect to see Grubby winning gsl or anything. The most amazing SC1 players are still playing BW, the less amazing ones have won all GSL's I never really followed the sc scene but I'm almost certain that Boxer and Nada were supposed to be some of the best sc1 players, and while they're obviously not doing completely horrible in sc2, they're not dominating by any mean.
Boxer and Nada are historical figures as far as BW scene goes. They couldn't even qualify for OSL/MSL near the end of their sc1 careers.
If any of top BW players were to switch, they would surely dominate SC2 scene.
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On January 03 2011 12:25 Lefnui wrote:Just to clear up that ridiculous argument: Moon is the best Warcraft III player of all time. He has by far the most achievements, there is no comparison. Anyone who tells you that Grubby is better has no knowledge of WC3 at all. Grubby is however generally considered the second best. Show nested quote +On January 03 2011 10:32 FrostedMiniWeet wrote:On January 03 2011 10:18 nathangonmad wrote:
I really hope Grubby is successful in Sc2. I really loved watching him in Wc3. But one things for sure, hes gonna have insane micro. The idea that WC3 players have super amazing micro is completely false as far as I have seen. I refuse to believe that anybody on the planet has micro as good as Jaedong, not to mention his macro. I didn't see anything out of the ordinary from Moon in the GSL. Absolutely baseless opinion, nothing else.
Not really. Quite a few agree with him. Marineking for example seems to be able to dance circles around anyone when it comes to micro in SC2. With that being said I am not very impressed by WC3 players micro. Kiwikaki would be an exception to this at his level (top foreigner). I think his micro has won him quite a few games,
And I sign the comment about Jaedong, except that Bisu is even better in my opinion.
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I never really cared for Warcraft 3... hell I never even played it, but I know that Grubby coming to SC2 will be BIG. I think the more Warcraft 3 pros that convert over the better... just means more publicity and talent pool for SC2.
I'm always open to seeing more people that are eager to learn the game properly
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Grubby is a boss, hopefully he does well.
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On January 03 2011 13:28 Silver_Thor wrote:first time poster but been following TeamLiquid.net since Starcraft 2 release....just wanted to say GL to Grubby, i understand the differences between WC3 and SC2 but feel someone with his talent if he wants to be a top player in both games he will find a way to do so and that the one thing this thread has proven is all eyes will be on him come February....no pressure 
haha true, :-) Same like in wc3 - the hype around his person already swept over to sc2.
once again i hope he does well
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On January 03 2011 18:15 Squeegy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2011 12:25 Lefnui wrote:Just to clear up that ridiculous argument: Moon is the best Warcraft III player of all time. He has by far the most achievements, there is no comparison. Anyone who tells you that Grubby is better has no knowledge of WC3 at all. Grubby is however generally considered the second best. On January 03 2011 10:32 FrostedMiniWeet wrote:On January 03 2011 10:18 nathangonmad wrote:
I really hope Grubby is successful in Sc2. I really loved watching him in Wc3. But one things for sure, hes gonna have insane micro. The idea that WC3 players have super amazing micro is completely false as far as I have seen. I refuse to believe that anybody on the planet has micro as good as Jaedong, not to mention his macro. I didn't see anything out of the ordinary from Moon in the GSL. Absolutely baseless opinion, nothing else. Not really. Quite a few agree with him. Marineking for example seems to be able to dance circles around anyone when it comes to micro in SC2. With that being said I am not very impressed by WC3 players micro. Kiwikaki would be an exception to this at his level (top foreigner). I think his micro has won him quite a few games, And I sign the comment about Jaedong, except that Bisu is even better in my opinion.
If you think Kiwikaki's micro is good, who was a subpar WC3 player (no insult to him, but he wasn't a top player) then how can you not be impressed with the best of the best, like Grubby, Moon, FoV ect. There micro is 100x better then Kiwis.
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On January 04 2011 08:25 nGBeast wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2011 18:15 Squeegy wrote:On January 03 2011 12:25 Lefnui wrote:Just to clear up that ridiculous argument: Moon is the best Warcraft III player of all time. He has by far the most achievements, there is no comparison. Anyone who tells you that Grubby is better has no knowledge of WC3 at all. Grubby is however generally considered the second best. On January 03 2011 10:32 FrostedMiniWeet wrote:On January 03 2011 10:18 nathangonmad wrote:
I really hope Grubby is successful in Sc2. I really loved watching him in Wc3. But one things for sure, hes gonna have insane micro. The idea that WC3 players have super amazing micro is completely false as far as I have seen. I refuse to believe that anybody on the planet has micro as good as Jaedong, not to mention his macro. I didn't see anything out of the ordinary from Moon in the GSL. Absolutely baseless opinion, nothing else. Not really. Quite a few agree with him. Marineking for example seems to be able to dance circles around anyone when it comes to micro in SC2. With that being said I am not very impressed by WC3 players micro. Kiwikaki would be an exception to this at his level (top foreigner). I think his micro has won him quite a few games, And I sign the comment about Jaedong, except that Bisu is even better in my opinion. If you think Kiwikaki's micro is good, who was a subpar WC3 player (no insult to him, but he wasn't a top player) then how can you not be impressed with the best of the best, like Grubby, Moon, FoV ect. There micro is 100x better then Kiwis.
I'm talking about micro in SC2. I don't follow WC3 at all.
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Micro is a lot different in sc2 than in bw, as in the unit movements in sc2 are a lot more fluid (for example the Terran Bio-Balls "stickyness" to eachother) so a lot of the little micro things that people do can be lost on spectators, but the big flashy splits of Foxer are noticed by all. Not taking anything away from Marineking, I think he IS the best microer currently in sc2, but a lot more little things that players do goes unnoticed by spectators.
Also I think it was the opinion of most that NaDa had the best overall micro of BW, or at least had other skills to back it up not like say a player like Iris. And I know that's just an opinion but you can look back at all the old BW threads and the general opinion was NaDa at the top with Jaedong and others right up there with him. NaDa definitely had the highest average APM though.
That being said, NaDa in the opinion of most is NOT the best micro'er of sc2 so,
Amazing Micro in one game ≠ Amazing Micro in another. WC3 is more micro orientated yes, but that doesn't mean that directly correlates into another game, but in some cases it could.
I think a WC3 player with exceptionally good micro for that game should rank high among sc2 players, but saying ALL WC3 players have high micro is stupid because that would be including WC3 players that had poor micro compared to other WC3 players.
I think that the thought that WC3 players have better micro comes from the fact that WC3 was more focused on individual unit control, rather than the economy based Starcraft, so when WC3 players switched over the mindset of using all your units to their fullest might carry over.
Also I <3 Grubby 
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On January 04 2011 08:30 Squeegy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2011 08:25 nGBeast wrote:On January 03 2011 18:15 Squeegy wrote:On January 03 2011 12:25 Lefnui wrote:Just to clear up that ridiculous argument: Moon is the best Warcraft III player of all time. He has by far the most achievements, there is no comparison. Anyone who tells you that Grubby is better has no knowledge of WC3 at all. Grubby is however generally considered the second best. On January 03 2011 10:32 FrostedMiniWeet wrote:On January 03 2011 10:18 nathangonmad wrote:
I really hope Grubby is successful in Sc2. I really loved watching him in Wc3. But one things for sure, hes gonna have insane micro. The idea that WC3 players have super amazing micro is completely false as far as I have seen. I refuse to believe that anybody on the planet has micro as good as Jaedong, not to mention his macro. I didn't see anything out of the ordinary from Moon in the GSL. Absolutely baseless opinion, nothing else. Not really. Quite a few agree with him. Marineking for example seems to be able to dance circles around anyone when it comes to micro in SC2. With that being said I am not very impressed by WC3 players micro. Kiwikaki would be an exception to this at his level (top foreigner). I think his micro has won him quite a few games, And I sign the comment about Jaedong, except that Bisu is even better in my opinion. If you think Kiwikaki's micro is good, who was a subpar WC3 player (no insult to him, but he wasn't a top player) then how can you not be impressed with the best of the best, like Grubby, Moon, FoV ect. There micro is 100x better then Kiwis. I'm talking about micro in SC2. I don't follow WC3 at all.
Oh my bad :<
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On January 04 2011 08:25 nGBeast wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2011 18:15 Squeegy wrote:On January 03 2011 12:25 Lefnui wrote:Just to clear up that ridiculous argument: Moon is the best Warcraft III player of all time. He has by far the most achievements, there is no comparison. Anyone who tells you that Grubby is better has no knowledge of WC3 at all. Grubby is however generally considered the second best. On January 03 2011 10:32 FrostedMiniWeet wrote:On January 03 2011 10:18 nathangonmad wrote:
I really hope Grubby is successful in Sc2. I really loved watching him in Wc3. But one things for sure, hes gonna have insane micro. The idea that WC3 players have super amazing micro is completely false as far as I have seen. I refuse to believe that anybody on the planet has micro as good as Jaedong, not to mention his macro. I didn't see anything out of the ordinary from Moon in the GSL. Absolutely baseless opinion, nothing else. Not really. Quite a few agree with him. Marineking for example seems to be able to dance circles around anyone when it comes to micro in SC2. With that being said I am not very impressed by WC3 players micro. Kiwikaki would be an exception to this at his level (top foreigner). I think his micro has won him quite a few games, And I sign the comment about Jaedong, except that Bisu is even better in my opinion. If you think Kiwikaki's micro is good, who was a subpar WC3 player (no insult to him, but he wasn't a top player) then how can you not be impressed with the best of the best, like Grubby, Moon, FoV ect. There micro is 100x better then Kiwis.
I'm getting tired of hearing about WC3 players and their micro. It's just nothing special, WC3 is the easier game and they are not even close to the level of top SC:BW players, they're probably not even close to the SC:BW B-teamers that are currently at the top in SC2 right now like Nestea, Marineking, MVP and MC. There's a reason why SC:BW players have like three or four times the APM of top WC3 players, and it's not just macro.
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On January 04 2011 08:52 pezit wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2011 08:25 nGBeast wrote:On January 03 2011 18:15 Squeegy wrote:On January 03 2011 12:25 Lefnui wrote:Just to clear up that ridiculous argument: Moon is the best Warcraft III player of all time. He has by far the most achievements, there is no comparison. Anyone who tells you that Grubby is better has no knowledge of WC3 at all. Grubby is however generally considered the second best. On January 03 2011 10:32 FrostedMiniWeet wrote:On January 03 2011 10:18 nathangonmad wrote:
I really hope Grubby is successful in Sc2. I really loved watching him in Wc3. But one things for sure, hes gonna have insane micro. The idea that WC3 players have super amazing micro is completely false as far as I have seen. I refuse to believe that anybody on the planet has micro as good as Jaedong, not to mention his macro. I didn't see anything out of the ordinary from Moon in the GSL. Absolutely baseless opinion, nothing else. Not really. Quite a few agree with him. Marineking for example seems to be able to dance circles around anyone when it comes to micro in SC2. With that being said I am not very impressed by WC3 players micro. Kiwikaki would be an exception to this at his level (top foreigner). I think his micro has won him quite a few games, And I sign the comment about Jaedong, except that Bisu is even better in my opinion. If you think Kiwikaki's micro is good, who was a subpar WC3 player (no insult to him, but he wasn't a top player) then how can you not be impressed with the best of the best, like Grubby, Moon, FoV ect. There micro is 100x better then Kiwis. I'm getting tired of hearing about WC3 players and their micro. It's just nothing special, WC3 is the easier game and they are not even close to the level of top SC:BW players, they're probably not even close to the SC:BW B-teamers that are currently at the top in SC2 right now like Nestea, Marineking, MVP and MC. There's a reason why SC:BW players have like three or four times the APM of top WC3 players, and it's not just macro.
Trying to compare BW and WC3 is like comparing apples to oranges, or console gamers to PC gamers, with alot of opinion thrown in there. Let not derail this thread any further. I don't want to hear about your biased opinion, and neither do a lot of people.
Edit: The 10 year old game is designed for higher APM, since its void of auto mining ect, its not like APM = Skill.
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High effective APM = Skill. If you think anything else you're just delusional. And high effective APM is pretty much the only factor in micro, or do you think anyone would have trouble microing on slowest?
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On January 04 2011 08:52 pezit wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2011 08:25 nGBeast wrote:On January 03 2011 18:15 Squeegy wrote:On January 03 2011 12:25 Lefnui wrote:Just to clear up that ridiculous argument: Moon is the best Warcraft III player of all time. He has by far the most achievements, there is no comparison. Anyone who tells you that Grubby is better has no knowledge of WC3 at all. Grubby is however generally considered the second best. On January 03 2011 10:32 FrostedMiniWeet wrote:On January 03 2011 10:18 nathangonmad wrote:
I really hope Grubby is successful in Sc2. I really loved watching him in Wc3. But one things for sure, hes gonna have insane micro. The idea that WC3 players have super amazing micro is completely false as far as I have seen. I refuse to believe that anybody on the planet has micro as good as Jaedong, not to mention his macro. I didn't see anything out of the ordinary from Moon in the GSL. Absolutely baseless opinion, nothing else. Not really. Quite a few agree with him. Marineking for example seems to be able to dance circles around anyone when it comes to micro in SC2. With that being said I am not very impressed by WC3 players micro. Kiwikaki would be an exception to this at his level (top foreigner). I think his micro has won him quite a few games, And I sign the comment about Jaedong, except that Bisu is even better in my opinion. If you think Kiwikaki's micro is good, who was a subpar WC3 player (no insult to him, but he wasn't a top player) then how can you not be impressed with the best of the best, like Grubby, Moon, FoV ect. There micro is 100x better then Kiwis. I'm getting tired of hearing about WC3 players and their micro. It's just nothing special, WC3 is the easier game and they are not even close to the level of top SC:BW players, they're probably not even close to the SC:BW B-teamers that are currently at the top in SC2 right now like Nestea, Marineking, MVP and MC. There's a reason why SC:BW players have like three or four times the APM of top WC3 players, and it's not just macro.
MVP was NOT a B-teamer lol, shows how much you know, and 3 to 4 times as much APM? lolexxageration
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On January 04 2011 08:52 pezit wrote:
I'm getting tired of hearing about WC3 players and their micro. It's just nothing special, WC3 is the easier game and they are not even close to the level of top SC:BW players, they're probably not even close to the SC:BW B-teamers that are currently at the top in SC2 right now like Nestea, Marineking, MVP and MC. There's a reason why SC:BW players have like three or four times the APM of top WC3 players, and it's not just macro.
There should be a rule on the internet that you have to post your account information when you call out entire player bases on their gaming ability, just so we know how hard to laugh when the dodge occurs.
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On January 04 2011 08:52 pezit wrote:
I'm getting tired of hearing about WC3 players and their micro. It's just nothing special, WC3 is the easier game and they are not even close to the level of top SC:BW players, they're probably not even close to the SC:BW B-teamers that are currently at the top in SC2 right now like Nestea, Marineking, MVP and MC. There's a reason why SC:BW players have like three or four times the APM of top WC3 players, and it's not just macro.
Did you follow the WC3 scene at all? Have you watched a replay since 2006? If you don't think their micro is simply amazing, you sir are a damned fool.
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On January 04 2011 08:52 pezit wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2011 08:25 nGBeast wrote:On January 03 2011 18:15 Squeegy wrote:On January 03 2011 12:25 Lefnui wrote:Just to clear up that ridiculous argument: Moon is the best Warcraft III player of all time. He has by far the most achievements, there is no comparison. Anyone who tells you that Grubby is better has no knowledge of WC3 at all. Grubby is however generally considered the second best. On January 03 2011 10:32 FrostedMiniWeet wrote:On January 03 2011 10:18 nathangonmad wrote:
I really hope Grubby is successful in Sc2. I really loved watching him in Wc3. But one things for sure, hes gonna have insane micro. The idea that WC3 players have super amazing micro is completely false as far as I have seen. I refuse to believe that anybody on the planet has micro as good as Jaedong, not to mention his macro. I didn't see anything out of the ordinary from Moon in the GSL. Absolutely baseless opinion, nothing else. Not really. Quite a few agree with him. Marineking for example seems to be able to dance circles around anyone when it comes to micro in SC2. With that being said I am not very impressed by WC3 players micro. Kiwikaki would be an exception to this at his level (top foreigner). I think his micro has won him quite a few games, And I sign the comment about Jaedong, except that Bisu is even better in my opinion. If you think Kiwikaki's micro is good, who was a subpar WC3 player (no insult to him, but he wasn't a top player) then how can you not be impressed with the best of the best, like Grubby, Moon, FoV ect. There micro is 100x better then Kiwis. I'm getting tired of hearing about WC3 players and their micro. It's just nothing special, WC3 is the easier game and they are not even close to the level of top SC:BW players, they're probably not even close to the SC:BW B-teamers that are currently at the top in SC2 right now like Nestea, Marineking, MVP and MC. There's a reason why SC:BW players have like three or four times the APM of top WC3 players, and it's not just macro.
MVP was a B-Teamer? wut??! that is news to me -_-;; Shows how much you know.
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On January 04 2011 15:17 IPA wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2011 08:52 pezit wrote:
I'm getting tired of hearing about WC3 players and their micro. It's just nothing special, WC3 is the easier game and they are not even close to the level of top SC:BW players, they're probably not even close to the SC:BW B-teamers that are currently at the top in SC2 right now like Nestea, Marineking, MVP and MC. There's a reason why SC:BW players have like three or four times the APM of top WC3 players, and it's not just macro.
Did you follow the WC3 scene at all? Have you watched a replay since 2006? If you don't think their micro is simply amazing, you sir are a damned fool.
Best not turn this into a WC3 vs BW thread. Although, it's probably too late.
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I am excited to say the least - Grubby is without a doubt one of the most talented RTS players i've ever watched play. With more room for creativity in SC2 compared to WC3, I have a good feeling Grubby is going to dominate.
You read it right here! DOMINATE!
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On January 04 2011 08:52 pezit wrote:I'm getting tired of hearing about WC3 players and their micro. It's just nothing special, WC3 is the easier game and they are not even close to the level of top SC:BW players, they're probably not even close to the SC:BW B-teamers that are currently at the top in SC2 right now like Nestea, Marineking, MVP and MC. There's a reason why SC:BW players have like three or four times the APM of top WC3 players, and it's not just macro.
are you serious?
honestly go watch a recent wc3 replay from grubby. the micro is so insane.
also no, BW is not the easier game. you cant say one game is either than the other.
the Wemadefox IH stats were released for 09, and moon (the wc3 pro) had a 40% win rate. In BW. not wc3, BW. he was competing with the WMF sc1 players, while being a boss at wc3.
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EPT
