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Grubby is going to be a hybrid WC3/SC2 player "for some time to come." I rarely followed WC3 but even I know that this is worth talking about.. Source: ESFI.com
With the announcement of Assembly's Winter 2011 StarCraft 2 tournament came an even more exciting one in Manuel "Grubby" Schenkhuizen being officially registered to compete. The tournament will mark the beginning of the WarCraft 3 superstar's professional StarCraft 2 career. However, in a statement to ESFI World, he clarified that he will remain a "hybrid" player for some time to come, playing in both StarCraft 2 and WarCraft 3 tournaments in 2011: "So long as there are good WarCraft 3 tournaments around for me to participate in, I will play them with vigor and enthusiasm."
![[image loading]](http://www.gosugamers.net/warcraft/images/people/grubby_egshirt_232.jpg)
Schenkhuizen will make his StarCraft 2 LAN debut at the Assembly Winter 2011 event, which takes place from February 11th to the 13th. Undeniably, he will not be a favorite to win or even place in the top 8 - and he agrees: "I won't be going into the Assembly Steel Series Challenge as the favorite, seeing as how I've only just started."
He's right. The competition at the event is formidable, with players such as HuK, Socke, Kas, DeMusliM, Naniwa, SjoW and recent Dreamhack Winter 2010 winner Naama scheduled to attend. And that's only the short list.
I guess my question is, how well will he do as a hybrid player? Yeah, he doesn't expect to walk in and win immediately but even months from now, can he win as a hybrid player? Maybe I underestimate him but I can't see how he (or anyone, really) can play the two games at the highest level and be successful at both. On the other hand, I don't know the WC3 schedule for 2011 - if it's light, if Grubby's focus can stay on SC2, then perhaps he'll show us something special. Anyone have any insight on that?
Either way, there are some awesome players going to Finland. It should be tough for him.
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Hmm, that seems to be the fate of a decent number of top WC3 players. Moon's currently doing the same thing. I hope he doesn't do as (relatively) poorly as Moon has in trying to do both.
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Will he play zerg like moon?
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On January 01 2011 05:34 Wollhead wrote:
Will he play zerg like moon?
I think he plays protoss, at least incontrol said that. But last time I checked he was random in Assembly tournament. But that maybe just a mistake because they didn't know his race yet.
I'm trusting incontrol and say that probably toss ^^
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you need to use your whole ass to get to the top in sc2, I don't expect him to be at the top until months after he stops playing wc3 completely.
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On January 01 2011 05:33 Kibibit wrote:
Hmm, that seems to be the fate of a decent number of top WC3 players. Moon's currently doing the same thing. I hope he doesn't do as (relatively) poorly as Moon has in trying to do both.
I would hardly call moon's results poor. He did make it to the Ro16 in GSL 3. Just such a strange comment. I agree he has work to do to be a top player, but his results so far are just fine.
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grubby is my favorite wc3 player of all time! I hope he makes some super awesome builds that i can steal jsut like his orc builds. I remember cheering for him so much every time he played! Omg this is amazing news.
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Does he get his name from his hair? It looks kinda "grubby" 
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On January 01 2011 05:41 Fa1nT wrote:Does he get his name from his hair? It looks kinda "grubby"
Haha I see what you did there.
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On January 01 2011 05:33 Kibibit wrote:
Hmm, that seems to be the fate of a decent number of top WC3 players. Moon's currently doing the same thing. I hope he doesn't do as (relatively) poorly as Moon has in trying to do both.
Yeah making it deep in GSL 3 is pretty lousy. (?) Idiotic.
As an 8 year WC3 player, I welcome the legends! Now we need TilleRMan to come out of retirement...
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I think that he should be able to do it quite comfortably. He has so much experience and skill in WC3 that he could probably focus almost all of his training time into SC2. And the WC3 scene is extremely weak compared to what it was before. Even before all the players moved to SC2 the scene was practically dead.
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As much as I'd like him to dominate, I don't think he's a real contender just yet. I hope we're going to see some interesting unit compositions and micro from him, but knowing how and when to be greedy is really important in an economy based RTS like SC2 and it's the kind of thing you only get a feel for after having played a shit-ton.
Or, you know ...he's just going to own  I hope I'm in for a good suprise.
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how is moon as a hybrid player? i know nothing of war3 pretty much but I know "grubby" and "moon". And if moon got into the GSL ro32? ro16? w/e he got to and only practice for a few weeks b4 GSL, the sky is the limit. once grubby learns the syntax for sc2 as opposed to wc3 he will most likely be very good. And I wouldn't be surprised if he made top 8, sc2 is a lot of about luck seeing how big of a joke allins are atm.
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On January 01 2011 05:37 Zurles wrote:
you need to use your whole ass to get to the top in sc2, I don't expect him to be at the top until months after he stops playing wc3 completely.
i agree, i expect him to get his ass handed to him by good players
so the moral of the story is use your whole ass or get it handed to you
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hes a great guy, hope he does well enough in sc2 to switch if WC3 dies.
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did it say what race he plays?
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On January 01 2011 05:55 majestouch wrote:
how is moon as a hybrid player? i know nothing of war3 pretty much but I know "grubby" and "moon". And if moon got into the GSL ro32? ro16? w/e he got to and only practice for a few weeks b4 GSL, the sky is the limit. once grubby learns the syntax for sc2 as opposed to wc3 he will most likely be very good. And I wouldn't be surprised if he made top 8, sc2 is a lot of about luck seeing how big of a joke allins are atm.
People keep saying this but Moon had like a thousand games under his belt on his ladder account and was pretty active before his GSL matches, and again before his code A tiebreakers. He was definitely practicing hard, and he's been playing the game off and on since beta.
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On January 01 2011 05:57 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2011 05:37 Zurles wrote:
you need to use your whole ass to get to the top in sc2, I don't expect him to be at the top until months after he stops playing wc3 completely. i agree, i expect him to get his ass handed to him by good players so the moral of the story is use your whole ass or get it handed to you
Ar HaR Ha RaH Har HaR
shyt made me giggle =/
User was warned for this post
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I've never played WC3 or cared for the game from a spectators points of view. That said it will still be interesting to watch him play Starcraft. his name does make you stop and take notice even if he may not be very good at the game right away.
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On January 01 2011 06:11 InToTheWannaB wrote:
I've never played WC3 or cared for the game from a spectators points of view. That said it will still be interesting to watch him play Starcraft. his name does make you stop and take notice even if he may not be very good at the game right away.
Is anyone? (The answer is no)
Anyways just give it time, if SC2 takes over China chances are tournaments for WC3 will die out and he'll dedicate his time fully to SC2. I swear, people on these forums act as if you ever do anything other than SC2 you will fail miserably and die in a fire or something.
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Kind of cocky if you ask me. Pick a side Grubby, war is coming.
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He will be mediocre at SC2 and keep placing top in WC3. That's about it. Or rather, that's my feelings/thoughts about it.
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Grubby is my hero and I will support him forever no matter how bad he is at SC2.
Even if he wants to play protoss, I will cheer for my orc brother.
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On January 01 2011 06:14 SpiritAshura wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2011 06:11 InToTheWannaB wrote:
I've never played WC3 or cared for the game from a spectators points of view. That said it will still be interesting to watch him play Starcraft. his name does make you stop and take notice even if he may not be very good at the game right away. Is anyone? (The answer is no) Anyways just give it time, if SC2 takes over China chances are tournaments for WC3 will die out and he'll dedicate his time fully to SC2. I swear, people on these forums act as if you ever do anything other than SC2 you will fail miserably and die in a fire or something.
Why do you take his comment as an insult? He's just saying that Grubby might not be very good at the game right away. Which as you correctly pointed out, is true for everyone. No-one said he wouldn't be good because he plays WC3, chill.
Please, don't turn this into a WC3 vs Starcraft thread.
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On January 01 2011 06:14 SpiritAshura wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2011 06:11 InToTheWannaB wrote:
I've never played WC3 or cared for the game from a spectators points of view. That said it will still be interesting to watch him play Starcraft. his name does make you stop and take notice even if he may not be very good at the game right away. Is anyone? (The answer is no) Anyways just give it time, if SC2 takes over China chances are tournaments for WC3 will die out and he'll dedicate his time fully to SC2. I swear, people on these forums act as if you ever do anything other than SC2 you will fail miserably and die in a fire or something.
it's not that you'll be miserable or die in a fire, but you won't win major tournaments
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On January 01 2011 06:16 HollowLord wrote:
Kind of cocky if you ask me. Pick a side Grubby, war is coming.
Winter is coming
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On January 01 2011 06:02 Aquafresh wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2011 05:55 majestouch wrote:
how is moon as a hybrid player? i know nothing of war3 pretty much but I know "grubby" and "moon". And if moon got into the GSL ro32? ro16? w/e he got to and only practice for a few weeks b4 GSL, the sky is the limit. once grubby learns the syntax for sc2 as opposed to wc3 he will most likely be very good. And I wouldn't be surprised if he made top 8, sc2 is a lot of about luck seeing how big of a joke allins are atm. People keep saying this but Moon had like a thousand games under his belt on his ladder account and was pretty active before his GSL matches, and again before his code A tiebreakers. He was definitely practicing hard, and he's been playing the game off and on since beta.
Most of those were as terran he had just recently switched to zerg and I shouldnt have to remind you how bad a few terrans looked switching to zerg in the last few months. You say a thousand games but thats a lot less games than other players of that level because he is still concentrating on WC3 or he was. I am hoping that next year he gets more time to put into it.
That said I dont think it is a given that the best BW/WC3 players will be the best SC2 players, we have already seen that not to be the case so far. Though if anyone can then it would be Grubby or Moon.
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On January 01 2011 06:14 SpiritAshura wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2011 06:11 InToTheWannaB wrote:
I've never played WC3 or cared for the game from a spectators points of view. That said it will still be interesting to watch him play Starcraft. his name does make you stop and take notice even if he may not be very good at the game right away. Is anyone? (The answer is no) Anyways just give it time, if SC2 takes over China chances are tournaments for WC3 will die out and he'll dedicate his time fully to SC2. I swear, people on these forums act as if you ever do anything other than SC2 you will fail miserably and die in a fire or something.
There will be big prize money WC3 tournaments next year its already been announced for 2011 if you take the court case into consideration WC3 actually looks more stable to me next year than BW.
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That said I dont think it is a given that the best BW/WC3 players will be the best SC2 players, we have already seen that not to be the case so far. Though if anyone can then it would be Grubby or Moon.
Has the best BW players switched to SC2 yet?
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On January 01 2011 06:31 stingbear wrote:Show nested quote +That said I dont think it is a given that the best BW/WC3 players will be the best SC2 players, we have already seen that not to be the case so far. Though if anyone can then it would be Grubby or Moon. Has the best BW players switched to SC2 yet? I wouldnt call Boxer, Nada and July scrubs, ok they arent the current best and lesser players have done better than them. But none of the current best WC3 have switched full time either and some lesser WC3 players have done very well (Rain, Naama). I am not trying to start a WC3/SC argument just saying dont expect players to neatly fall in line of pecking order because they wont its a different game.
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Kas, DeMusliM, Naniwa and SjoW were nothing compared to Grubby in wc3, this is basically the best of the best switching over from wc3. He's going to be one of the top players in europe in a year!
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On January 01 2011 06:31 stingbear wrote:Show nested quote +That said I dont think it is a given that the best BW/WC3 players will be the best SC2 players, we have already seen that not to be the case so far. Though if anyone can then it would be Grubby or Moon. Has the best BW players switched to SC2 yet?
No, people like Jaedong or Flash who are the best BW players currently around still officially only play BW.
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On January 01 2011 06:33 Vimsey wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2011 06:31 stingbear wrote:That said I dont think it is a given that the best BW/WC3 players will be the best SC2 players, we have already seen that not to be the case so far. Though if anyone can then it would be Grubby or Moon. Has the best BW players switched to SC2 yet? I wouldnt call Boxer, Nada and July scrubs, ok they arent the current best and lesser players have done better than them. But none of the current best WC3 have switched full time either and some lesser WC3 players have done very well (Rain, Naama).
If you mention how some lesser WC3 players have done well then what about irOn, FD, ZergBong, IdrA?
Or maybe I just didn't get what you were saying,
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Well my thoughts are you will have a hard time playing 2 games and succeed in both but good luck to him. The hours he will need to put sounds tiresome.
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That's awesome, I loved to watch Grubby's exciting play when I was playing WC3. If we can get just a few games coming close to the quality of his WC3's play, that would be awesome. 
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On January 01 2011 06:37 Piski wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2011 06:33 Vimsey wrote:On January 01 2011 06:31 stingbear wrote:That said I dont think it is a given that the best BW/WC3 players will be the best SC2 players, we have already seen that not to be the case so far. Though if anyone can then it would be Grubby or Moon. Has the best BW players switched to SC2 yet? I wouldnt call Boxer, Nada and July scrubs, ok they arent the current best and lesser players have done better than them. But none of the current best WC3 have switched full time either and some lesser WC3 players have done very well (Rain, Naama). If you mention how some lesser WC3 players have done well then what about irOn, FD, ZergBong, IdrA? Or maybe I just didn't get what you were saying,
He's saying just because people were top of One game doesn't mean they will be top of SC2.
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On January 01 2011 06:37 Piski wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2011 06:33 Vimsey wrote:On January 01 2011 06:31 stingbear wrote:That said I dont think it is a given that the best BW/WC3 players will be the best SC2 players, we have already seen that not to be the case so far. Though if anyone can then it would be Grubby or Moon. Has the best BW players switched to SC2 yet? I wouldnt call Boxer, Nada and July scrubs, ok they arent the current best and lesser players have done better than them. But none of the current best WC3 have switched full time either and some lesser WC3 players have done very well (Rain, Naama). If you mention how some lesser WC3 players have done well then what about irOn, FD, ZergBong, IdrA? Or maybe I just didn't get what you were saying,
I guess you dont get what I am saying, THATS EXACTLY WHAT I AM SAYING.
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His decision to become a hybrid player makes some sense. He placed 2nd at the last WCG, so he can obviously still compete at a high level. With that in mind there is plenty of incentive to continue playing warcraft 3, though as the European warcraft players all start switching games (I see at least 15 big name wc3 players in euro top 100 already) I think he will either have to travel a lot more to compete (to china most likely) or switch over. Until then really no reason to drop wc3 as far as I can see.
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On January 01 2011 06:41 Numy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2011 06:37 Piski wrote:On January 01 2011 06:33 Vimsey wrote:On January 01 2011 06:31 stingbear wrote:That said I dont think it is a given that the best BW/WC3 players will be the best SC2 players, we have already seen that not to be the case so far. Though if anyone can then it would be Grubby or Moon. Has the best BW players switched to SC2 yet? I wouldnt call Boxer, Nada and July scrubs, ok they arent the current best and lesser players have done better than them. But none of the current best WC3 have switched full time either and some lesser WC3 players have done very well (Rain, Naama). If you mention how some lesser WC3 players have done well then what about irOn, FD, ZergBong, IdrA? Or maybe I just didn't get what you were saying, He's saying just because people were top of One game doesn't mean they will be top of SC2.
well I don't think anyone would be naive enough to think that being at the top of one game means they will be at the VERY TOP of another game. but clearly there has been a strong correlation between being a strong player in wc3/bw and being a strong player in sc2.
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On January 01 2011 06:49 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2011 06:41 Numy wrote:On January 01 2011 06:37 Piski wrote:On January 01 2011 06:33 Vimsey wrote:On January 01 2011 06:31 stingbear wrote:That said I dont think it is a given that the best BW/WC3 players will be the best SC2 players, we have already seen that not to be the case so far. Though if anyone can then it would be Grubby or Moon. Has the best BW players switched to SC2 yet? I wouldnt call Boxer, Nada and July scrubs, ok they arent the current best and lesser players have done better than them. But none of the current best WC3 have switched full time either and some lesser WC3 players have done very well (Rain, Naama). If you mention how some lesser WC3 players have done well then what about irOn, FD, ZergBong, IdrA? Or maybe I just didn't get what you were saying, He's saying just because people were top of One game doesn't mean they will be top of SC2. well I don't think anyone would be naive enough to think that being at the top of one game means they will be at the VERY TOP of another game. but clearly there has been a strong correlation between being a strong player in wc3/bw and being a strong player in sc2.
Obviously, I was merely saying what he was saying. I think if you top of a game you must have talent and the mindset to be top of any game. Maybe not every top but still competitive.
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On January 01 2011 06:49 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2011 06:41 Numy wrote:On January 01 2011 06:37 Piski wrote:On January 01 2011 06:33 Vimsey wrote:On January 01 2011 06:31 stingbear wrote:That said I dont think it is a given that the best BW/WC3 players will be the best SC2 players, we have already seen that not to be the case so far. Though if anyone can then it would be Grubby or Moon. Has the best BW players switched to SC2 yet? I wouldnt call Boxer, Nada and July scrubs, ok they arent the current best and lesser players have done better than them. But none of the current best WC3 have switched full time either and some lesser WC3 players have done very well (Rain, Naama). If you mention how some lesser WC3 players have done well then what about irOn, FD, ZergBong, IdrA? Or maybe I just didn't get what you were saying, He's saying just because people were top of One game doesn't mean they will be top of SC2. well I don't think anyone would be naive enough to think that being at the top of one game means they will be at the VERY TOP of another game. but clearly there has been a strong correlation between being a strong player in wc3/bw and being a strong player in sc2.
Yes thats unarguable its just that at the moment some people are using Moons recent results as some kind of WC3/BM penis measuring contest. I am just enjoying seeing my favourite heroes dukeing it out on a new game and hopefully we get a few epic matchups in the next few months in the GSL :D.
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anyon eknow his username and id number? so i can stalk him on sc2ranks?
Is he going to the EG house in korea?!?! omg this is so exciting. TELL US MORE!!!!!!!!
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grubby is selfish. he needs to only play sc2 so that he can become the best and entertain me.
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Obligatory link to the awesome (but long) interview ESL TV did with him in 2009: link
Recent podcast in which inControl mentions grubby: link. Skip to about 1:03
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Hes not gonna do very well until he drops WC3 but I see why he wants to stick with WC3 because theres not many top players left that are playing the game so its free money for him at tournaments. He is very talented though so we shall see how he does in sc2. He could pull off an upset here and there and win some cash but I don't see him winning tournaments.
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If an athlete like Deon Sanders can play two sports and excel at a professional level, there's no reason why a gamer can't do the same. It'll be hard, but definitely not impossible. Best of luck to Grubby.
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On January 01 2011 06:55 Vimsey wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2011 06:49 travis wrote:On January 01 2011 06:41 Numy wrote:On January 01 2011 06:37 Piski wrote:On January 01 2011 06:33 Vimsey wrote:On January 01 2011 06:31 stingbear wrote:That said I dont think it is a given that the best BW/WC3 players will be the best SC2 players, we have already seen that not to be the case so far. Though if anyone can then it would be Grubby or Moon. Has the best BW players switched to SC2 yet? I wouldnt call Boxer, Nada and July scrubs, ok they arent the current best and lesser players have done better than them. But none of the current best WC3 have switched full time either and some lesser WC3 players have done very well (Rain, Naama). If you mention how some lesser WC3 players have done well then what about irOn, FD, ZergBong, IdrA? Or maybe I just didn't get what you were saying, He's saying just because people were top of One game doesn't mean they will be top of SC2. well I don't think anyone would be naive enough to think that being at the top of one game means they will be at the VERY TOP of another game. but clearly there has been a strong correlation between being a strong player in wc3/bw and being a strong player in sc2. Yes thats unarguable its just that at the moment some people are using Moons recent results as some kind of WC3/BM penis measuring contest. I am just enjoying seeing my favourite heroes dukeing it out on a new game and hopefully we get a few epic matchups in the next few months in the GSL :D.
Cant forget demuslims as well.
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On January 01 2011 07:09 KiLL_ORdeR wrote:
If an athlete like Deon Sanders can play two sports and excel at a professional level, there's no reason why a gamer can't do the same.
really?
you REALLY think that's comparable?
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On January 01 2011 07:01 blizzind wrote:
grubby is selfish. he needs to only play sc2 so that he can become the best and entertain me.
that's the spirit!
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He played Protoss versus Garimto in a showmatch not too long ago.
If Grubby switches, he'll be in the top 5 EU. There's no doubt in my mind.
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On January 01 2011 07:20 Fantistic wrote:
He played Protoss versus Garimto in a showmatch not too long ago.
If Grubby switches, he'll be in the top 5 EU. There's no doubt in my mind.
if thats what he maxes out at I can't help but think it sounds like a failure
top 5 europe when the top players are all in korea
in wc3 isn't he regarded as the best ever?
that's like flash switching to sc2 and having trouble placing top 4 in some NA tournament
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On January 01 2011 07:21 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2011 07:20 Fantistic wrote:
He played Protoss versus Garimto in a showmatch not too long ago.
If Grubby switches, he'll be in the top 5 EU. There's no doubt in my mind. if thats what he maxes out at I can't help but think it sounds like a failure top 5 europe when the top players are all in korea in wc3 isn't he regarded as the best ever? that's like flash switching to sc2 and having trouble placing top 4 in some NA tournament
I think he will join up with the EG house in korea ;D
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On January 01 2011 07:27 ExoFun wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2011 07:21 travis wrote:On January 01 2011 07:20 Fantistic wrote:
He played Protoss versus Garimto in a showmatch not too long ago.
If Grubby switches, he'll be in the top 5 EU. There's no doubt in my mind. if thats what he maxes out at I can't help but think it sounds like a failure top 5 europe when the top players are all in korea in wc3 isn't he regarded as the best ever? that's like flash switching to sc2 and having trouble placing top 4 in some NA tournament I think he will join up with the EG house in korea ;D
If I was a woman, I'd be wet at that thought. Man I hope this EG house is happening and I know it's gonna rock if it does. EG guys keep saying it's happening but until it happens I won't be satisfied.
Anyway back to topic. Grubby IS one of the greatest war3 players of all time. He has talent dedication and the mindset needed to be competitive. You can't really speculate on how well he will do but there is potential there.
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
On January 01 2011 07:21 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2011 07:20 Fantistic wrote:
He played Protoss versus Garimto in a showmatch not too long ago.
If Grubby switches, he'll be in the top 5 EU. There's no doubt in my mind. if thats what he maxes out at I can't help but think it sounds like a failure top 5 europe when the top players are all in korea in wc3 isn't he regarded as the best ever? that's like flash switching to sc2 and having trouble placing top 4 in some NA tournament
I think Grubby and Moon are pretty much on even footing in accompolishments and 'perceived skill level'.
Anyway, good to hear he really is switching to SC2 and i hope he can really translate those WC3 skills into this game.
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Stop with this bs aobut "one of the greatest ever in wc3". He is THE greatest... His micro and macro are both so amazing. Plus his mind is made for strategy. If he goes to Korea's EG house omg... Grubby and Idra are going to get 1 and 2 in gsl.
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I heard that he plays Terran but I would really love if he would be Protoss.
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On January 01 2011 07:38 ffz wrote:
Stop with this bs aobut "one of the greatest ever in wc3". He is THE greatest... His micro and macro are both so amazing. Plus his mind is made for strategy. If he goes to Korea's EG house omg... Grubby and Idra are going to get 1 and 2 in gsl.
would be cool, but very unrealistic
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Moon still plays Warcraft3 aswell and he did ro32 in GSL S3 so Grubby can place high indeed.
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living orc legend! he sure has the potential to get one of the best in sc2
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I doubt he'll be very good if he's still doing WC3. Just dont think you can prepare enough to be at that level for two different games. Wish him luck tough.
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If people are good at RTS then they're good at RTS. Starcraft 2 is a cool game and all but I don't understand how people think he'll fail to be successful when he's got complete domination over a game that's so similar. He doesn't need to mass 1k+ games to understand what his opponent is capable of and how to exploit it.
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Strange to see your favorite orc player playing sc2 He definitely has my support
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On January 01 2011 08:06 Hinduuism wrote:
If people are good at RTS then they're good at RTS. Starcraft 2 is a cool game and all but I don't understand how people think he'll fail to be successful when he's got complete domination over a game that's so similar. He doesn't need to mass 1k+ games to understand what his opponent is capable of and how to exploit it.
this shows how little you understand about being great at games as deep as sc2
the best players play all the freaking time, it is their lives
and wc3 isn't even that similar..
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On January 01 2011 08:06 Hinduuism wrote:
If people are good at RTS then they're good at RTS. Starcraft 2 is a cool game and all but I don't understand how people think he'll fail to be successful when he's got complete domination over a game that's so similar. He doesn't need to mass 1k+ games to understand what his opponent is capable of and how to exploit it.
At the pro level, Starcraft 2 requires more than just your everyday laddering experience. You make it sound as if its a simple matter for him to understand the game and his opponents, when in reality the game is constantly changing and evolving. It's not a 500 piece puzzle that can simply be solved, its as if you're constantly putting together pieces of an ever changing puzzle so that it can never be fully complete. If he continues to play WC3 he will not be able to focus on SC2 as much as other pros, meaning other pros will be more prepared, plain and simple.
And all RTS's aren't the same, and a prime example of that is WC3 compared to SC2. WC3 is of course much more micro based and unit/hero control than is Starcraft 2 which is more Economy management and Macro Management. Not to say certainly some aspects of playing WC3 won't improve his gameplay, but I definitely think it is a faulty assumption to say that by playing WC3 at such a high level he'll be sooo great at SC2 b/c they're both "RTSs". Fact of the matter is they are two very different games.
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If all the other WC3 players are doing so well, why shouldn't he at least get as good as they are
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Personally, I'm not too sure how well he'll do, but from what I've heard, he is one of the best progammers to have ever lived. I'm looking forward to the games he'll play, since regardless, he is still going to be pretty skilled.
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Protoss needs a legend to play it. Tester hasn't been performing
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I don't expect him to rock all the tournaments, but I'm sure he can be a decent player. Doesn't Naniwa play WoW too?
Also, it'll be interesting if he brings a War3 flair to the game. Micro is fun to watch ^^
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Him playing both SC2 and WC3 in 2011 is no big surprise, same for Moon and Lyn. There will be some major events with big money for those players in China, sponsored by the Chinese government. They would be fools to pass up on that when they all have a relatively good shot at winning it.
And if Moon and Lyn can get code A while alternating then Grubby should certainly be able to atleast compete at top EU/NA level. It's unreasonable to expect him to rack up tournament wins and such, his aim for SC2 in 2011 will probably be to fall not too far behind the others before he finally switches.
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On January 01 2011 08:24 BetterFasterStronger wrote:
Protoss needs a legend to play it. Tester hasn't been performing
oGsMC man, tester was so beta phase
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Nice, he should start playing DoTa or HoN too.
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On January 01 2011 07:21 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2011 07:20 Fantistic wrote:
He played Protoss versus Garimto in a showmatch not too long ago.
If Grubby switches, he'll be in the top 5 EU. There's no doubt in my mind. if thats what he maxes out at I can't help but think it sounds like a failure top 5 europe when the top players are all in korea in wc3 isn't he regarded as the best ever? that's like flash switching to sc2 and having trouble placing top 4 in some NA tournament
That's true but I didn't want to come across as fanboyish so I toned it down.
I meant out of the European players regardless of where they are in the world, he'll be in the top 5 throughout the life of SC2.
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I am interested to see him play.
What he really accomplished in WC3 was strategic innovation. Back in 2003, before Grubby was on the radar, the forums were awash in Orc tears. Grubby changed that all in a handful of weeks, showcasing unseen strategies like his grunt/far seer/catapult agression, then later innovating with raiders, which were previously rarely seen at the highest levels. Ever since he came along, Orc is now "OP".
If he can accomplish similar results in SC2 then he will be great, but that remains to be seen. It also remains to be seen whether his slower playstyle will transition well into SC2 where you have a lot more units to micro, but Protoss seems to be a good fit for him.
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On January 01 2011 08:33 TrainFX wrote:
Nice, he should start playing DoTa or HoN too.
Oh for the love of god no.
Although, I'll bet he could compete at highest level of dota with 30 mins of practice a day.
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Grubby is the James Toney of esports, a two sport cyberathlete
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On January 01 2011 08:54 Lefnui wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2011 08:33 TrainFX wrote:
Nice, he should start playing DoTa or HoN too. Oh for the love of god no. Although, I'll bet he could compete at highest level of dota with 30 mins of practice a day.
Then you have obviously never seen Chinese DOTA, and that is a very disrespectful comment of yours towards the DOTA pros. High level DOTA teams practice at least as much as pro Starcraft players, and are very, very trained at the game. To even compete at a low level in the US you have to practice many hours a day. That said, DOTA does not really fit into the RTS genre, and team-play is just as important, if not more important, then individual skill. Not that I want to start a DOTA versus X flame-fight here.
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Blitzer
Australia243 Posts
Grubby is just really talented I think he will go far in sc2 and i'm pleased that he's chosen Protoss. People are pretty harsh on Moon's performances too, RO16 GSL was quite a strong performance for someone alternating between 2 games and then he stomped his group in the code A tournament (i think he went 5-1 from memory). Also seeing Grubby vs Moon in the GSL would be so amazing, i really, really hope that it happens. Or something like Moon v Boxer. I'm salivating at the thought of some of those matchups in 2011!
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On January 01 2011 08:54 Lefnui wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2011 08:33 TrainFX wrote:
Nice, he should start playing DoTa or HoN too. Oh for the love of god no. Although, I'll bet he could compete at highest level of dota with 30 mins of practice a day.
I think TrainFX was trolling.
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moon was hybrid when he went to GSL, same with Lyn. Grubby will do fine.
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I'm going to predict that he eliminates every no-name in SC2 and when he meets someone who has some history in tourney competitions, he'll fall.
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On January 01 2011 07:38 ffz wrote:
Stop with this bs aobut "one of the greatest ever in wc3". He is THE greatest... His micro and macro are both so amazing. Plus his mind is made for strategy. If he goes to Korea's EG house omg... Grubby and Idra are going to get 1 and 2 in gsl.
uh no. who is the greatest ever in bw? different answers. same with wc3.
Someone who excels at a type of game will almost certainly excel at another of the same type. fps, fighters, racing...I see no reason why rts's can't be the same way.
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On January 01 2011 09:31 maliceee wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2011 07:38 ffz wrote:
Stop with this bs aobut "one of the greatest ever in wc3". He is THE greatest... His micro and macro are both so amazing. Plus his mind is made for strategy. If he goes to Korea's EG house omg... Grubby and Idra are going to get 1 and 2 in gsl. uh no. who is the greatest ever in bw? different answers. same with wc3. Someone who excels at a type of game will almost certainly excel at another of the same type. fps, fighters, racing...I see no reason why rts's can't be the same way.
Saying someone is the greatest is just a matter of opinion. Unless there really is someone who clearly dominates everyone else competing in their field.
As for Grubby being the greatest; that's debatable. I'd say it's between Grubby and Moon.
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On January 01 2011 09:19 ch0c0b0fr34k wrote:
I'm going to predict that he eliminates every no-name in SC2 and when he meets someone who has some history in tourney competitions, he'll fall.
Grubby is a proffesional gamer. thats his life, hes going to be awesome at sc2, i reckon he will make at least ro8. some other ex wc3 players in this tourny too so should be fun
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You guys overrate grubby way too much. Obviously one of the best wc3 players of all time, however he is not even close to as good as his results. While he has played farseer quite a bit without orc he would of been just some average player. Seeing as sc2 has done a pretty good balance job for the amount of time its been out, I don't see grubby going anywhere.
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I think there's a lot of room for experimentation and creativity in Starcraft 2, and I think Grubby is the perfect man to explore it.
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On January 01 2011 06:02 Aquafresh wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2011 05:55 majestouch wrote:
how is moon as a hybrid player? i know nothing of war3 pretty much but I know "grubby" and "moon". And if moon got into the GSL ro32? ro16? w/e he got to and only practice for a few weeks b4 GSL, the sky is the limit. once grubby learns the syntax for sc2 as opposed to wc3 he will most likely be very good. And I wouldn't be surprised if he made top 8, sc2 is a lot of about luck seeing how big of a joke allins are atm. People keep saying this but Moon had like a thousand games under his belt on his ladder account and was pretty active before his GSL matches, and again before his code A tiebreakers. He was definitely practicing hard, and he's been playing the game off and on since beta.
he said in interviews that he only practices for sc2 "hardcore" (i'm assuming thats where most the games come from) when hes participating in a tournament such as GSL
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On January 01 2011 09:52 peachsncream wrote:
You guys overrate grubby way too much. Obviously one of the best wc3 players of all time, however he is not even close to as good as his results. While he has played farseer quite a bit without orc he would of been just some average player. Seeing as sc2 has done a pretty good balance job for the amount of time its been out, I don't see grubby going anywhere.
How does that even make sense? He's been successfully competing at top level for 7 years even during the earlier periods when Orc was considered weak.
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I can't be the only one who interpreted this as "I'm switching to SC2, but I'll keep showing up on War3 tournaments to earn some free moniez."
It really makes sense. Why would he quit competing in War3 if he has a pretty good chance to win something even with 5% of the usual practice? (I'm don't really know anything about War3 besides recognizing the names Grubby and Moon, but if he's as great as his reputation, it's the equivalent of like Stork/Jaedong/Flash switching to a new game and deciding to keep competing in SC)
If that's not the case, and he intends to split the practice time evenly, he'll be a complete failure.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
Hmm, if i recall correctly(correct me if i am wrong) Grubby was the player to introduce with hardcore Blademaster play at a high level and finally finding a counter to the druid of talon NE players, or something. Either way I am biased since i am Dutch aswell, however I would really like to see him playing SC2,
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On January 01 2011 09:52 peachsncream wrote:
You guys overrate grubby way too much. Obviously one of the best wc3 players of all time, however he is not even close to as good as his results. While he has played farseer quite a bit without orc he would of been just some average player. Seeing as sc2 has done a pretty good balance job for the amount of time its been out, I don't see grubby going anywhere.
the only MU that is slightly imbalanced is Orc vs UD.
Human and NE do fine vs BM, those MUs are balanced. and seeing as for the last 2 years there has been 2 UD players, and grubby has still dominated, dont talk about imbalance. and anyway he was dominant back when FS was used every game and NE was strongest race. So dont talk about what you dont know about.
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On January 01 2011 10:03 Kipsate wrote:
Hmm, if i recall correctly(correct me if i am wrong) Grubby was the player to come with hardcore Blademaster play at a high level and finally finding a counter to the druid of talon NE players, or something. Either way I am biased since i am Dutch aswell, however I would really like to see him playing SC2,
nah Zacard did all the innovation for orc, stuff like popularising raider use (now essential in all MUs, and i think zacard used BM first, was vs ToD and ToD just didnt know how to deal with a BM and so he got beaten really badly.
Thats not to take anything away from Grubby ofc, he is still a god
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Since there seems to be some confusion about Moon's performance in GSL3, he made ro32. The only player he beat in the main tournament is ButterflyEffect. Objectively, qualifying for the GSL and then making it to ro32 is not a lousy performance, but it is not what you want if you are someone used to being the greatest player of all time. I'd chalk some of that up to his divided attention.
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On January 01 2011 06:17 Kyandid wrote:
Grubby is my hero and I will support him forever no matter how bad he is at SC2.
Even if he wants to play protoss, I will cheer for my orc brother.
BIG TRUE ! GRUBBY IS HERO <3 !
About race i dunno, but I saw one-two time play him terran, but it doesnt mean anything.
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Grubby is in progaming same thing like Michael Jackson for pop music or Eminem for rap.
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On January 01 2011 10:05 L3g3nd_ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2011 10:03 Kipsate wrote:
Hmm, if i recall correctly(correct me if i am wrong) Grubby was the player to come with hardcore Blademaster play at a high level and finally finding a counter to the druid of talon NE players, or something. Either way I am biased since i am Dutch aswell, however I would really like to see him playing SC2, nah Zacard did all the innovation for orc, stuff like popularising raider use (now essential in all MUs, and i think zacard used BM first, was vs ToD and ToD just didnt know how to deal with a BM and so he got beaten really badly. Thats not to take anything away from Grubby ofc, he is still a god
IIRC Zacard first did raiders vs undead and Grubby was the first high profile player to use them VS NE, at least from what I remember from watching a lot of replays from around that time. Blademaster was indeed Zacard, Grubby actually stayed with Far Seer for quite awhile after the meta-game switch.
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Pretty cool I'd say, while not being a fanatic WC3 follower, I'm kind of biased towards Dutch making moves within esports, being Dutch myself, so rooting for the home team sorta. Wish him all the luck. How he will do? Who knows, this shit takes a lot of practice, experienced or not, WC3 is a different game, but he'll be able show his talent I'm sure, whether it'll take a while or not, I'll be rooting for him. GG
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Grubby was the first progamer I followed; I will be his fan even if he is horrible at SC2.
Having said that, once he is finally focused on SC2 (esp when he sees all the money in it), and when he gets in the EG house with everyone else, he will def become one of the best.
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Personally, I attribute Moon's success so far as a hybrid gamer to the fact that the Starcraft 2 scene is still largely dominated by a bunch of "has been's" and "never were's". Sure, Boxer was a star 8 years ago, but he was a third-rate player by the time he switched. Moon is certainly one of the top WC3 players of all time in skill and as such, it's really not surprising for him to be competitive in a scene dominated by inferior players. Grubby will certainly be just as strong for the same reason. The question is whether or not he'll be able to stay competitive as more talented players switch over with full dedication to the game. I think it would be better for him to make a full switch sooner rather than later to stay ahead of the increasing competition, especially with the fate of the BW scene being as uncertain as it is with these lawsuits.
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Personally, I attribute Moon's success so far as a hybrid gamer to the fact that the Starcraft 2 scene is still largely dominated by a bunch of "has been's" and "never were's". Sure, Boxer was a star 8 years ago, but he was a third-rate player by the time he switched. Moon is certainly one of the top WC3 players of all time in skill and as such, it's really not surprising for him to be competitive in a scene dominated by inferior players. Grubby will certainly be just as strong for the same reason. The question is whether or not he'll be able to stay competitive as more talented players switch over with full dedication to the game. I think it would be better for him to make a full switch sooner rather than later to stay ahead of the increasing competition, especially with the fate of the BW scene being as uncertain as it is with these lawsuits.
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On January 01 2011 10:02 niteReloaded wrote:
I can't be the only one who interpreted this as "I'm switching to SC2, but I'll keep showing up on War3 tournaments to earn some free moniez."
It really makes sense. Why would he quit competing in War3 if he has a pretty good chance to win something even with 5% of the usual practice? (I'm don't really know anything about War3 besides recognizing the names Grubby and Moon, but if he's as great as his reputation, it's the equivalent of like Stork/Jaedong/Flash switching to a new game and deciding to keep competing in SC)
If that's not the case, and he intends to split the practice time evenly, he'll be a complete failure.
Not Grubby, or Moon, will win a single nickel with 5% of the usual practice, it's still quite fierce competition at top level. The Chinese players will give it their all and they are pretty even right now. Do you think Jaedong or Stork would win anything if they cut down their practice to 5%? They would get destroyed within months.
In the long run it doesn't matter to Grubby's SC2 career if he doesn't commit full time in 2011.
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If theres one thing we've learned from WC3 players in SC2 its that they can not only compete but there isn't a large disparity between the two, ESPECIALLY in the foreigner scene.
Grubby is one of the greatest of all time in WC3 and I think that even as a hybrid player he will do well in SC2, and if he fully switches over, I genuinely think he has potential to be one of the top 15 foreigners in the scene.
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Im sure grubby would be rather dissapointed if he switches over and is only top 15 of foreigners. Honestly I think atm non korean pros are about as good as korean pros its simply a numbers game in GSL. That may change in the future but either way I dont think grubby will be happy with being a "top 15 foreigner" (really like top 30 or 40 or 50 in the world). I think as a hybrid player he will do mediocre in sc2 then 6 months after he switches he will be top 10 or 20 in world.. still not living up to his wc3 success. He has potential to be the best player in the world, just as alot of other players do, unfortunately potential isnt enough.
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I doubt he will be very successful trying to play both games at once because many current pros have had more time and play the game as a full time job.I think it will be very difficult for anyone to come in and make waves professionally without a full time commitment to the game.
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Just to clear things up for those who havnt played WC3 or knows little about it:
WC3 and SC2 are both RTS:s, yes that is correct. Apart from that, they are quite unequal.
I've played WC3 for "kinda" competitive level in about 4 years and watched the pros even longer than that, and I know for sure that there are big differences. The way you gain and contain mapcontrol, the way you handle an economy, the way you perform a fight, the way maps are layed out, the way the 'meta-game' plays out. Everything is quite different.
That being said, the fundemantals of RTS is still present of course, but please, dont do the mistake to have too high expectations for Grubby once he switches over from WC3 (We had a nice time my dear, may you rest in peace) that he will perform uber-good in SC2 right away. He has the rutine of working in a pro team, he has the practice routines, and he has the spirit, so if he has motivation and really PUTS HIS SOUL into the game, then there's no doubt in my mind. But nothing here is granted.
Grubby has played WC3 since its release basicly and has done pretty much everything that's due for a legand to perform. Won WCG twice, won several other big titles such as World e-Sports Masters, WSVG, Blizzcon and ESWC.
He's an ESPORT Legend. That's all for me, good luck and good bye.
Happy new year
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I think that what Grubby is doing is smart. When I try to look at it from his perspective (which will be at best a guess as I'm not him) I have the following thoughts.
He is a pro player, gaming is his livelihood, therefore if he wants to keep this lifestyle he is required to continue playing WC3 (which he loves) in order to keep his sponsors and stay on team EG. Being a Top Dog in WC3 will guarantee him access to the remaining tournaments at which most of his 'old' competitors will not be. Tournaments will probably also pay him to attend as he is 'Grubby'. This will give him peace of mind (income) and more importantly time.
Now to make a smooth transition into SC2 while not being fully committed will be next to impossible, as many comments above have stated. But, were not talking about a regular WC3 competitor here. This is one of the legends of WC3. This guy CAN play RTS at TOP level consistently.
I believe the most important thing for Grubby is to find his SC2 fighting spirit, which will solidify his commitment to SC2.
Will this make him competitive? Good enough to beat an Idra? Time will tell, but I think he will be competing for top honors in a year. (I confess, I'm a Grubby fan)
To wrap-up, I think players like Grubby and Moon are in a different situation then, for example, DeMuslim or NightEnd. In the dying WC3 scene Grubby and Moon can still make a living. And although most people don't like to see it as 'a job', from them it is.
And its wonderful that they get to play videogames and can support themselves doing it. Which in my humble opinion is the best job in the world.
Happy new year, enjoy!
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On January 01 2011 08:06 Hinduuism wrote:
If people are good at RTS then they're good at RTS. Starcraft 2 is a cool game and all but I don't understand how people think he'll fail to be successful when he's got complete domination over a game that's so similar. He doesn't need to mass 1k+ games to understand what his opponent is capable of and how to exploit it.
I think a better explaination as to why the same players seem to excel at both games, is because they carry over the motivation and drive that propelled them to their position in the first time. You're not born an RTS player. Grubby is clearly a person that has the motivation and drive to keep improving at rate that have kept him as the best for many many years. If he takes over this motivation and continues having the same drive, then he could easily become one of the best foreigners ever.
But it's not likely he will have the same motivation as he had when he was younger. He has already achieved being the best for years, he has fans, he have lived playing a video game for years, which I'm sure was a dream of his when he started. I doubt he will continue having same motivation to essentially do everything again, but this time with the mindset of "if I don't become the best ever, then I have not done as well as I did in WC3".
I don't know how Grubby thinks, but I sure think motivation and drive are what matters the most at the highest level. If you wanna stay good, you gotta keep having the motivation you had when you were at your best ever and really excited about every achievement you get, else you will start slacking.
There's no doubt however, that he will instantly break into top 200 and do well on the ladder because he is used to practicing a lot, but that is very different from showing amazing results in very big tournaments.
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On January 01 2011 10:05 L3g3nd_ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2011 10:03 Kipsate wrote:
Hmm, if i recall correctly(correct me if i am wrong) Grubby was the player to come with hardcore Blademaster play at a high level and finally finding a counter to the druid of talon NE players, or something. Either way I am biased since i am Dutch aswell, however I would really like to see him playing SC2, nah Zacard did all the innovation for orc, stuff like popularising raider use (now essential in all MUs, and i think zacard used BM first, was vs ToD and ToD just didnt know how to deal with a BM and so he got beaten really badly. Thats not to take anything away from Grubby ofc, he is still a god
I would love to see SK.Zacard back on stage, too.
Back in the early Wc3 days, in my opinion, he was more inspirational then Grubby before he had to go to the army.
Anyway, I hope Gruppy switches quite fast to Sc2 so he don't fall behind that much.
Also I don't think he would join the EG house in Korea after recently buying an own house with his wife.
I'm imagining some tournement with Grubby, Moon, ToD and Mad.Frog right now and I get chills over my body, can't wait for that (hope for a 4k reunion, but that's too much dreaming:D)
Happy New Year TL!
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^4K reunion would be too much for the wc3 community to deal with.
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Does anyone know that Grubby began his RTS journey with Starcraft 1? He was a very good player then itself and he's been following a lot of the game since beta.
Grubby's strength is not his micro but his ability to think. As many pros in the SC2 scene have mentioned you don't need to click at 800 apm to be good here, you need to choose the right strategy. Aka think. That's what Grubby's best at. He takes a strategy and near perfects it. The blademaster, Farseer rush, tower rush all of this in Warcraft 3 were started by other players but it was Grubby who dominated it with his perfection. You guys are underestimating his natural perseverance and ability to innovate. And let's face it with or without Warcraft 3 Grubbys one of the most famous RTS players of history. Like Boxer.
That being said, this is not a claim that he'll be the best player all time ever or something but definitely top 5 Europe in a year from now assuming he loves the game as much as he did love Warcraft 3.
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He looks liek a Toss player.
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On January 01 2011 06:33 Flaunt wrote:
Kas, DeMusliM, Naniwa and SjoW were nothing compared to Grubby in wc3, this is basically the best of the best switching over from wc3. He's going to be one of the top players in europe in a year!
This +1. Grubby isn't just any old WC3 player, he's consistently placed in top of WC3 tournaments for many many years and isn't coming out of retirement either(like MaDFroG). Don't underestimate Grubby for sure.
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Rumor has it that this may be Grubby.
I don't know if this has already been mentioned in this thread already btw.
Also take it with a pinch of salt as well maybe...
MeatyOwlLegs
TBH it could be anyone
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On January 01 2011 11:09 WAAA wrote:
Im sure grubby would be rather dissapointed if he switches over and is only top 15 of foreigners. Honestly I think atm non korean pros are about as good as korean pros its simply a numbers game in GSL. That may change in the future but either way I dont think grubby will be happy with being a "top 15 foreigner" (really like top 30 or 40 or 50 in the world). I think as a hybrid player he will do mediocre in sc2 then 6 months after he switches he will be top 10 or 20 in world.. still not living up to his wc3 success. He has potential to be the best player in the world, just as alot of other players do, unfortunately potential isnt enough.
Is there a difference between top 15 and top 5 today? I mean if people where to make a top5 list you'd get 15 or so players with about equal amount of votes. It's just that tight right now. (yeah that would work in reality since people would vote on HuK for his hoodie, TLO for being TLO and IdrA for his BM but anyways) This might change in the future though.
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I think Demuslim once mentioned that Naniwa would beat his impressive win/loose ratio in an interview (propably after dreamhack) so it seems that this is nanis smurf.
But I don't know for sure, have to search for that interview^^
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On January 01 2011 20:47 hAxel wrote:Rumor has it that this may be Grubby. I don't know if this has already been mentioned in this thread already btw. Also take it with a pinch of salt as well maybe... MeatyOwlLegsTBH it could be anyone
There was talk on WCR it might be him, but everyone was just trolling, no way thats grubby. hes fucking good, but not that good.
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Considering the fact that there is no Nani in the ladder anymore who could represent him ( only one with 2200 points) I'd guess it's him, unfortunenatly^^
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It's not like Grubby will win every wc3 tourneys in 2011. I can name 5 chineses who are as good or better than Grubby (and they play wc3 fulltime). And I dont think Grubby can be that successful in SC2 as well. European ex-wc3 players have been kinda so so (like Nani, DeMuslim) and cant be compared with Korean ex-wc3 like Maka, Check, Zenio. Korean has all the environment advantages like teamhouse training, big tourney aka GSL etc. If they switch game to play SC2, they will be good in no time
On a side note, both Lyn & Moon refused a big wc3 tourney in China in January to participate in GSL Code A, and FOX is likely to turn down another teamleague (with over €100K prize pool). That means Moon & Lyn may still play wc3 but sc2 will be their 1st priority in 2011
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On January 01 2011 11:27 LittleeD wrote:
Just to clear things up for those who havnt played WC3 or knows little about it:
WC3 and SC2 are both RTS:s, yes that is correct. Apart from that, they are quite unequal.
I've played WC3 for "kinda" competitive level in about 4 years and watched the pros even longer than that, and I know for sure that there are big differences. The way you gain and contain mapcontrol, the way you handle an economy, the way you perform a fight, the way maps are layed out, the way the 'meta-game' plays out. Everything is quite different.
That being said, the fundemantals of RTS is still present of course, but please, dont do the mistake to have too high expectations for Grubby once he switches over from WC3 (We had a nice time my dear, may you rest in peace) that he will perform uber-good in SC2 right away. He has the rutine of working in a pro team, he has the practice routines, and he has the spirit, so if he has motivation and really PUTS HIS SOUL into the game, then there's no doubt in my mind. But nothing here is granted.
Grubby has played WC3 since its release basicly and has done pretty much everything that's due for a legand to perform. Won WCG twice, won several other big titles such as World e-Sports Masters, WSVG, Blizzcon and ESWC.
He's an ESPORT Legend. That's all for me, good luck and good bye.
Happy new year
exactly :-)
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Dont know if this question has been answered yet,
but I've seen shoutcasts of Grubby on YouTube, him being Terran. That was however a while ago and he played poorly back then so ... yea ...
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On January 02 2011 00:33 Vaethin wrote:
Dont know if this question has been answered yet,
but I've seen shoutcasts of Grubby on YouTube, him being Terran. That was however a while ago and he played poorly back then so ... yea ...
Apparently he's switched to Protoss. Incontrol and a couple of other people have said so. He played a show match back during the beta against GARIMTO as a Protoss as well.
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On January 01 2011 21:34 Arceus wrote:
It's not like Grubby will win every wc3 tourneys in 2011. I can name 5 chineses who are as good or better than Grubby (and they play wc3 fulltime). And I dont think Grubby can be that successful in SC2 as well. European ex-wc3 players have been kinda so so (like Nani, DeMuslim) and cant be compared with Korean ex-wc3 like Maka, Check, Zenio. Korean has all the environment advantages like teamhouse training, big tourney aka GSL etc. If they switch game to play SC2, they will be good in no time
On a side note, both Lyn & Moon refused a big wc3 tourney in China in January to participate in GSL Code A, and FOX is likely to turn down another teamleague (with over €100K prize pool). That means Moon & Lyn may still play wc3 but sc2 will be their 1st priority in 2011
Zenio and TownHall (Maka) were never high level. Check, on the other hand, was a top pro on the same level as Grubby. DeMusliM was of much higher level than both Zenio and Maka at WC3. Naniwa was a mediocre semi-pro.
My point is that there is a poor correlation between how good these players were at WC3 and how good they are at SC2. DeMusliM would destroy Naniwa at WC3 but, in SC2, it's very close.
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On January 01 2011 09:53 Gentso wrote:
I think there's a lot of room for experimentation and creativity in Starcraft 2, and I think Grubby is the perfect man to explore it.
this is exactly how i feel with grubby playing sc2.
his dedication for wc3 is admirable but i think concentrating on just one game will produce much better results. i really hope he will someday switch to sc2 and play it with the same passion he played wc3 with.
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If Grubby's chin and Jinro's chin fought, who would win?
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Really disappointed to hear this news. I really believe Grubby has great potential in SC2, but not if he doesn't focus on it completely.
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On January 02 2011 02:44 sk` wrote:
If Grubby's chin and Jinro's chin fought, who would win?
grubby's chin isn't stupid enough to pick a fight with jinro's chin
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On January 01 2011 09:00 InvalidID wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2011 08:54 Lefnui wrote:On January 01 2011 08:33 TrainFX wrote:
Nice, he should start playing DoTa or HoN too. Oh for the love of god no. Although, I'll bet he could compete at highest level of dota with 30 mins of practice a day. Then you have obviously never seen Chinese DOTA, and that is a very disrespectful comment of yours towards the DOTA pros. High level DOTA teams practice at least as much as pro Starcraft players, and are very, very trained at the game. To even compete at a low level in the US you have to practice many hours a day. That said, DOTA does not really fit into the RTS genre, and team-play is just as important, if not more important, then individual skill. Not that I want to start a DOTA versus X flame-fight here.
No, you're absolutely wrong. I'm familiar with the DotA scene, and it's absolutely nothing compared to WC3 or BW. The level of skill, the amount of training, nothing is comparable. It's an extremely newb-friendly game with a pathetic level of competition in comparison.
No macro, no multitasking, no units. One hero, a single hero. If you think that's comparable to what's required in WC3 then you know nothing of it.
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On January 02 2011 02:44 sk` wrote:
If Grubby's chin and Jinro's chin fought, who would win? Grubby could easily outmicro Jinro's chin.
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Grubby is a great player, no doubt, but I won't get my hopes up about his SC2 abilities until at least a few months after his debut. Glad he's playing Protoss though.
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On January 02 2011 09:39 Lefnui wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2011 09:00 InvalidID wrote:On January 01 2011 08:54 Lefnui wrote:On January 01 2011 08:33 TrainFX wrote:
Nice, he should start playing DoTa or HoN too. Oh for the love of god no. Although, I'll bet he could compete at highest level of dota with 30 mins of practice a day. Then you have obviously never seen Chinese DOTA, and that is a very disrespectful comment of yours towards the DOTA pros. High level DOTA teams practice at least as much as pro Starcraft players, and are very, very trained at the game. To even compete at a low level in the US you have to practice many hours a day. That said, DOTA does not really fit into the RTS genre, and team-play is just as important, if not more important, then individual skill. Not that I want to start a DOTA versus X flame-fight here. No, you're absolutely wrong. I'm familiar with the DotA scene, and it's absolutely nothing compared to WC3 or BW. The level of skill, the amount of training, nothing is comparable. It's an extremely newb-friendly game with a pathetic level of competition in comparison. No macro, no multitasking, no units. One hero, a single hero. If you think that's comparable to what's required in WC3 then you know nothing of it.
pls dont we already had that discussion like ~3 years ago...
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A team like EHOME is anything but pathetic
Also stop comparing him with other WC3 players, I mean there's no comparing Maka and Grubby, it's like comparing Artosis with Jaedong. Well they were both BW players and Artosis isn't doing so good so I don't think Jaedong will be good at SC2...
You can however compare him to Moon and I don't think you can call Moon's results mediocre, playing part-time (1k ladder games is not alot compared to players who train 10+hours a day doing custom games against there teamates) and still getting RO32 in GSL3 and pretty much dominating his code A qualifiers, 5-1..
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The only reason this could possibly work is because SC2 is so young right now and there are no good players yet (Yeah yeah lemme explain first).
Once this game takes a full swing and we start seeing the level of play that BW has been showing in the last few years (4-5 we'll say) then it's not going to be possible to be only partially committed no matter your experiance in another RTS game. War3 and SC2 are way too different to be compared in terms of ethier macro or micro. Micro in war3 has more to offer but you can get away with alot more mistakes due to the slow paced game-play (in comparison to sc2...and not to say it's easy or w/e but it's alot more forgiving) and the addition of hero units that can render most strategies compeltely ineffective (blade masters + 2-3 items anyone? LOL pathetic balancing...) and macro in war3 is just so different from sc2.
Anyways point i'm trying to make is that yes grubby is a good player but he's not going to be as successful in a full-strength sc2 circuit once players are actually able to play this game correctly and adjust/adapt strategies more efficiently. Right now there are alot of games where one person just falls over because they made a mistake in their unit comp or build order. Not to mention even moon/lyn showed massive gaps in their skill level between them and top-tier opponents (moon vs jinro anyone? jinro had a walk in the park fighting moon honestly...) due to the fact that their RTS experiance differs so much from what SC2 is based around.
TL:DR He won't be competitive at all once this game starts taking off if he doesn't choose one over the other. The longer he delays the farther he'll be behind.
K ready for my lesson on how I don't know anything about war3 or sc2 now!
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What excites me about this is that grubby is such a smart player. His strategies are well thought out and executed. He should come up with some pretty interesting stuff.
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On January 02 2011 10:07 GeneticToss wrote:A team like EHOME is anything but pathetic Also stop comparing him with other WC3 players, I mean there's no comparing Maka and Grubby, it's like comparing Artosis with Jaedong. Well they were both BW players and Artosis isn't doing so good so I don't think Jaedong will be good at SC2... You can however compare him to Moon and I don't think you can call Moon's results mediocre, playing part-time (1k ladder games is not alot compared to players who train 10+hours a day doing custom games against there teamates) and still getting RO32 in GSL3 and pretty much dominating his code A qualifiers, 5-1..
They're mediocre for someone who is used to being the best. Listen, the reason these results are mediocre is because this isn't just some guy trying to do his best in weekly tournies or whatever. He is someone who wants to compete at the top, top level in esports. He has done that in WC3. Beating Pippi and August and such does not qualify him as such for SC2. I'll see him as giving a mediocre performance until he beats someone who I think is genuinely a top, top player. Judging by the way he was playing against Jinro and in the A class qualifiers, I do not think that will happen soon.
Moon is a talented guy. He seems to understand something about how to play and practice for RTSes that allows him to give these performances with the practice he's had(i don't know the exact numbers for how he stacks up against August or ButterflyEffect in terms of practice time, for example, but I suspect he's doing better than them for his practice time) but right now I still think he's half-assing it. Like an Einstein-level genius half-assing a tough physics course and getting a C-. Yeah, it's a hard course, but he still half-assed it and underperformed.
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I guess we'll just have to see how he does, because I don't really think he can be a top player in SC2 with out full attention.
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I need a replay of this OwlLegs player on top of EU ladder to check hotkeys with Nani's account to see if its him. Still a smalll chance it could be Grubby!
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ban inc but i dont give a shit
On January 01 2011 08:09 travis wrote:
did you wake up on the wrong side of the fucking bed? every single post you made in this thread you sound like a fucking whining asshat, i dont give a shit how many posts you have, you are a fucking douche..
P.S
On January 01 2011 07:38 ffz wrote:
Stop with this bs aobut "one of the greatest ever in wc3". He is THE greatest... His micro and macro are both so amazing. Plus his mind is made for strategy.
get a clue
+ Show Spoiler +
User was temp banned for this post.
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OP should update the post with pics of Grubbys GF. The fact he has kept up his level of play with a model girlfriend shows his dedication to gaming.
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With all the money China is going to pour into the 2011 wc3 scene, it would be retarded for top players NOT to still compete. Grubby, Lyn and Moon could never play another game of wc3 for the rest of the year, just show up for tournaments, and still cash. Its not like starcraft 2 is going to completely BREAK their wc3 skills.
I actually noticed large amounts of synergy in terms of skill improvement when I switched between wc3 and sc1 back and forth and back and forth. My micro improved tremendously after a session of 1v1 wc3.
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On January 02 2011 14:02 hewtrain wrote:ban inc but i dont give a shit did you wake up on the wrong side of the fucking bed? every single post you made in this thread you sound like a fucking whining asshat, i dont give a shit how many posts you have, you are a fucking douche.. P.S Show nested quote +On January 01 2011 07:38 ffz wrote:
Stop with this bs aobut "one of the greatest ever in wc3". He is THE greatest... His micro and macro are both so amazing. Plus his mind is made for strategy. get a clue + Show Spoiler +
are you serious? Grubby has been the most consistent WC3 player of all time. Moon has only a few top finishes in the big tourneys in the last 2 year, and the last was NGL One where he came in 1st, his last good 1st place finish was IEF in 2008, pretty much the end of his good streak.
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On January 02 2011 14:02 hewtrain wrote:ban inc but i dont give a shit did you wake up on the wrong side of the fucking bed? every single post you made in this thread you sound like a fucking whining asshat, i dont give a shit how many posts you have, you are a fucking douche.. P.S Show nested quote +On January 01 2011 07:38 ffz wrote:
Stop with this bs aobut "one of the greatest ever in wc3". He is THE greatest... His micro and macro are both so amazing. Plus his mind is made for strategy. get a clue + Show Spoiler +
You wont last long here with this attitude.
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On January 02 2011 14:27 nGBeast wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2011 14:02 hewtrain wrote:ban inc but i dont give a shit On January 01 2011 08:09 travis wrote:
did you wake up on the wrong side of the fucking bed? every single post you made in this thread you sound like a fucking whining asshat, i dont give a shit how many posts you have, you are a fucking douche.. P.S On January 01 2011 07:38 ffz wrote:
Stop with this bs aobut "one of the greatest ever in wc3". He is THE greatest... His micro and macro are both so amazing. Plus his mind is made for strategy. get a clue + Show Spoiler + are you serious? Grubby has been the most consistent WC3 player of all time. Moon has only a few top finishes in the big tourneys in the last 2 year, and the last was NGL One where he came in 1st, his last good 1st place finish was IEF in 2008, pretty much the end of his good streak.
listen to yourself idiot.. 'only a few top finishes in the big tourneys in the last 2 years'.. wc3 has died down considerably in the last 2 years and the life of wc3 goes LONG beyond a span of only 2 years.. you dont mention 06-07 when grubby was copping anal from euro trash elves for a whole year?
you also just brush aside his NGL win because it suits your argument.. lmfao what a fucking joke of a post and claim..
anyone who has any idea knows moon is far and away the greatest wc3 player of all time..
as for 2nd place? then maybe we can mention grubby
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On January 02 2011 14:30 hixhix wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2011 14:02 hewtrain wrote:ban inc but i dont give a shitOn January 01 2011 08:09 travis wrote:
did you wake up on the wrong side of the fucking bed? every single post you made in this thread you sound like a fucking whining asshat, i dont give a shit how many posts you have, you are a fucking douche.. P.S On January 01 2011 07:38 ffz wrote:
Stop with this bs aobut "one of the greatest ever in wc3". He is THE greatest... His micro and macro are both so amazing. Plus his mind is made for strategy. get a clue + Show Spoiler + You wont last long here with this attitude.
maybe you should read the posts you quote?
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I believe fatal1ty played several games at a top level throughout his career. I don't know anything about FPS games but if they are as different to one another as WC3 is to SC2, I don't see why it can't be done.
Maybe if he keeps up with popular timing attacks and all-ins and practises against those to get into the lategame, pure skill could take over and the lack of game knowledge would matter less.
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On January 01 2011 05:51 IPA wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2011 05:33 Kibibit wrote:
Hmm, that seems to be the fate of a decent number of top WC3 players. Moon's currently doing the same thing. I hope he doesn't do as (relatively) poorly as Moon has in trying to do both. Yeah making it deep in GSL 3 is pretty lousy. (?) Idiotic. As an 8 year WC3 player, I welcome the legends! Now we need TilleRMan to come out of retirement...
Yes, but results alone are not impressive in and of themselves, it's also the manner in which you get those results, and as much as I gush about the guy like he was Warcraft 3 jesus, nothing there had that aura of one of the greatest legends in the history of RTS. Pardon me for having high hopes for the guy. No need to be a dick about it.
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I think no. I mean, it doesn't matter what you think of WC3, I don't think it's possible to be a top pro in ANY two games, period.
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I think that Grubby will be a force at sc2 in europe right from the beginning. But I dont think that he will be able to bring a race to a new level of play like he did with orc in warcraft 3.
Regardless of the skill Grubby will have in sc2 I think its so good for the whole esports scene that these well-known names(Grubby, Madfrog, Tod) compete in sc2 tournaments because it brings excitement to the game.
The hybrid-thing I think will only be a matter of scheduling issue for Grubby because tournaments in both scenes will collide at the same time.
PS: I hope some more wc3 players will enter starcraft 2 like "remind, th0000, infi"
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On January 01 2011 07:11 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2011 07:09 KiLL_ORdeR wrote:
If an athlete like Deon Sanders can play two sports and excel at a professional level, there's no reason why a gamer can't do the same. really? you REALLY think that's comparable?
Uh, yes? That's a fine comparison.
Do you think that what Sanders did is somehow less impressive than it would be to succeed in two RTS games at the same time?
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On January 02 2011 14:33 hewtrain wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2011 14:27 nGBeast wrote:On January 02 2011 14:02 hewtrain wrote:ban inc but i dont give a shit On January 01 2011 08:09 travis wrote:
did you wake up on the wrong side of the fucking bed? every single post you made in this thread you sound like a fucking whining asshat, i dont give a shit how many posts you have, you are a fucking douche.. P.S On January 01 2011 07:38 ffz wrote:
Stop with this bs aobut "one of the greatest ever in wc3". He is THE greatest... His micro and macro are both so amazing. Plus his mind is made for strategy. get a clue + Show Spoiler + are you serious? Grubby has been the most consistent WC3 player of all time. Moon has only a few top finishes in the big tourneys in the last 2 year, and the last was NGL One where he came in 1st, his last good 1st place finish was IEF in 2008, pretty much the end of his good streak. listen to yourself idiot.. 'only a few top finishes in the big tourneys in the last 2 years'.. wc3 has died down considerably in the last 2 years and the life of wc3 goes LONG beyond a span of only 2 years.. you dont mention 06-07 when grubby was copping anal from euro trash elves for a whole year? you also just brush aside his NGL win because it suits your argument.. lmfao what a fucking joke of a post and claim.. anyone who has any idea knows moon is far and away the greatest wc3 player of all time.. as for 2nd place? then maybe we can mention grubby
Your obviously an idiot who hasn't followed wc3, or his fanboyism is to far up your ass to take a look at the acheivements lmao. NGL One was a joke compared to what NGL use to be. Grubby has consistently placed in every top tourney every year he's been a pro gamer. Also if the game has "died" then how come the "greatest" player of all time isn't winning everything? Lmao nice logic, he was good in 07, winning pretty much everything, but he's never gained that form again.
He's never even won WCG lmao. Sorry bud, but your fanboyism only takes you so far.
Edit: Grubby shit on him in WEM finals in 2009, and in WCG 2008. Grubby is also the only player to win WCG and ESWC.
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He will undoubtedly be great once he makes a serious time commitment.
Moon is really damn good already, and is still mostly a WC3 player.
WC3 is on pretty steady decline, and once Moon and Grubby make the full switch I think we'll have ourselves a couple more top SC2 players.
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On January 02 2011 14:53 nGBeast wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2011 14:33 hewtrain wrote:On January 02 2011 14:27 nGBeast wrote:On January 02 2011 14:02 hewtrain wrote:ban inc but i dont give a shit On January 01 2011 08:09 travis wrote:
did you wake up on the wrong side of the fucking bed? every single post you made in this thread you sound like a fucking whining asshat, i dont give a shit how many posts you have, you are a fucking douche.. P.S On January 01 2011 07:38 ffz wrote:
Stop with this bs aobut "one of the greatest ever in wc3". He is THE greatest... His micro and macro are both so amazing. Plus his mind is made for strategy. get a clue + Show Spoiler + are you serious? Grubby has been the most consistent WC3 player of all time. Moon has only a few top finishes in the big tourneys in the last 2 year, and the last was NGL One where he came in 1st, his last good 1st place finish was IEF in 2008, pretty much the end of his good streak. listen to yourself idiot.. 'only a few top finishes in the big tourneys in the last 2 years'.. wc3 has died down considerably in the last 2 years and the life of wc3 goes LONG beyond a span of only 2 years.. you dont mention 06-07 when grubby was copping anal from euro trash elves for a whole year? you also just brush aside his NGL win because it suits your argument.. lmfao what a fucking joke of a post and claim.. anyone who has any idea knows moon is far and away the greatest wc3 player of all time.. as for 2nd place? then maybe we can mention grubby Your obviously an idiot who hasn't followed wc3, or his fanboyism is to far up your ass to take a look at the acheivements lmao. NGL One was a joke compared to what NGL use to be. Grubby has consistently placed in every top tourney every year he's been a pro gamer. Also if the game has "died" then how come the "greatest" player of all time isn't winning everything? Lmao nice logic, he was good in 07, winning pretty much everything, but he's never gained that form again. He's never even won WCG lmao. Sorry bud, but your fanboyism only takes you so far. Edit: Grubby shit on him in WEM finals in 2009, and in WCG 2008. Grubby is also the only player to win WCG and ESWC.
wrong..
for a start, NGL use to be a team league before it became solo, how can you compare the two?
grubby "winning pretty much everything" in 07? and im the one who is "obviously an idiot who hasn't followed wc3, or his fanboyism is to far up your ass to take a look at the acheivements lmao"
grubby was getting raped in 07 by every top 5 elf..
also read my post, i didnt say the game has died, i said it has died DOWN, meaning the scene is far weaker than it use to be (never stated it was dead)..
even if wc3 had died already, why does that mean the "greatest player of all time" would be winning everything? you clearly have no idea of the difference between current best and greatest of all time..
stating he has never won WCG as an argument is an absolute joke, taking into consideration grubby gets auto qualification to the finals every year, meanwhile in korea moon has to fight tooth and nail just to get qualification year after year against top names such as lyn, remind, lucifer, fov, focus, who etc..
allow me to ask you who grubby has EVER beaten to gain entry to the WCG finals? rotterdam? lmfao hardly comparible..
"Sorry bud, but your fanboyism only takes you so far."
1. im not even a moon fan, in fact he is not even in my favourite 5 players.
2. find a mirror
edit: you pretty much proved how much of a fucking moron you are by stating 2 matches where grubby defeated moon, like that has some sort of bearing on which of the 2 is the greater of ALL time..
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LMFAO.. couldnt help but respond again after rereading this..
On January 02 2011 14:53 nGBeast wrote:
how come the "greatest" player of all time isn't winning everything?
hahaha that is the most fucking stupid question/logic i have EVER seen..
if michael jordan is the "greatest" basketball player of all time, how come he isnt winning all the MVP awards and championships?
wake up and smell the roses
greatest of all time =/= current best.. hurr
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On January 02 2011 14:04 On_Slaught wrote:
OP should update the post with pics of Grubbys GF. The fact he has kept up his level of play with a model girlfriend shows his dedication to gaming.
Isn't she his wife now? That's what I'm worried about the most, with his recent marriage he probably won't have as much time as he did in his prime to practice for SC2, let alone SC2 + WC3.
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On January 02 2011 15:11 hewtrain wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2011 14:53 nGBeast wrote:On January 02 2011 14:33 hewtrain wrote:On January 02 2011 14:27 nGBeast wrote:On January 02 2011 14:02 hewtrain wrote:ban inc but i dont give a shit On January 01 2011 08:09 travis wrote:
did you wake up on the wrong side of the fucking bed? every single post you made in this thread you sound like a fucking whining asshat, i dont give a shit how many posts you have, you are a fucking douche.. P.S On January 01 2011 07:38 ffz wrote:
Stop with this bs aobut "one of the greatest ever in wc3". He is THE greatest... His micro and macro are both so amazing. Plus his mind is made for strategy. get a clue + Show Spoiler + are you serious? Grubby has been the most consistent WC3 player of all time. Moon has only a few top finishes in the big tourneys in the last 2 year, and the last was NGL One where he came in 1st, his last good 1st place finish was IEF in 2008, pretty much the end of his good streak. listen to yourself idiot.. 'only a few top finishes in the big tourneys in the last 2 years'.. wc3 has died down considerably in the last 2 years and the life of wc3 goes LONG beyond a span of only 2 years.. you dont mention 06-07 when grubby was copping anal from euro trash elves for a whole year? you also just brush aside his NGL win because it suits your argument.. lmfao what a fucking joke of a post and claim.. anyone who has any idea knows moon is far and away the greatest wc3 player of all time.. as for 2nd place? then maybe we can mention grubby Your obviously an idiot who hasn't followed wc3, or his fanboyism is to far up your ass to take a look at the acheivements lmao. NGL One was a joke compared to what NGL use to be. Grubby has consistently placed in every top tourney every year he's been a pro gamer. Also if the game has "died" then how come the "greatest" player of all time isn't winning everything? Lmao nice logic, he was good in 07, winning pretty much everything, but he's never gained that form again. He's never even won WCG lmao. Sorry bud, but your fanboyism only takes you so far. Edit: Grubby shit on him in WEM finals in 2009, and in WCG 2008. Grubby is also the only player to win WCG and ESWC. wrong.. for a start, NGL use to be a team league before it became solo, how can you compare the two? grubby "winning pretty much everything" in 07? and im the one who is "obviously an idiot who hasn't followed wc3, or his fanboyism is to far up your ass to take a look at the acheivements lmao" grubby was getting raped in 07 by every top 5 elf.. also read my post, i didnt say the game has died, i said it has died DOWN, meaning the scene is far weaker than it use to be (never stated it was dead).. even if wc3 had died already, why does that mean the "greatest player of all time" would be winning everything? you clearly have no idea of the difference between current best and greatest of all time.. stating he has never won WCG as an argument is an absolute joke, taking into consideration grubby gets auto qualification to the finals every year, meanwhile in korea moon has to fight tooth and nail just to get qualification year after year against top names such as lyn, remind, lucifer, fov, focus, who etc.. allow me to ask you who grubby has EVER beaten to gain entry to the WCG finals? rotterdam? lmfao hardly comparible.. " Sorry bud, but your fanboyism only takes you so far." 1. im not even a moon fan, in fact he is not even in my favourite 5 players. 2. find a mirror edit: you pretty much proved how much of a fucking moron you are by stating 2 matches where grubby defeated moon, like that has some sort of bearing on which of the 2 is the greater of ALL time..
Don't know where i said grubby won everything in 2007 lol, I said moon you illiterate retard. Grubby taking Moon out of 2 of the biggest tourneys of all time is nothing to be proud of right? Lol? Moon qualified for WCG countless times and only 1-2 made a top 3 finish (losing to Grubby ofc and getting out classed severely). Moon only dominated in 1 year (07) and has been on a decline ever since, even look at before 07, he was decent but Grubby still is more notable. Looking at Grubby history of tourneys, hes won EVERY major tourney. Not counting his team tourneys with 4K, his achievements far out weight Moon. Sorry bud, moon was only good for 1 year, Grubby has been great since he became big (2004 WCG win).
Hell, even I'd take Creo over both of them. That guy came out of retirement and raped beyond belief.
Edit: To your 2nd comment, if Moon can't even win tourneys on a game on a slow decline with less and less top players then how can you claim he's the greatest? Fuck even th0000 is mroe innovative then moon.
Sorry but your post is just riddled with personal attacks and no factual backing, your just a blithering idiot.
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On January 02 2011 15:35 zex66 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2011 14:04 On_Slaught wrote:
OP should update the post with pics of Grubbys GF. The fact he has kept up his level of play with a model girlfriend shows his dedication to gaming. Isn't she his wife now? That's what I'm worried about the most, with his recent marriage he probably won't have as much time as he did in his prime to practice for SC2, let alone SC2 + WC3.
Well it seem like she support him 100% so don't think it's a problem. He did proposal on stage @ blizzcon 09.
![[image loading]](http://www.fragyou.net/i/grubby_proposal1.jpg)
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"Grubby has consistently placed in every top tourney every year he's been a pro gamer. Also if the game has "died" then how come the "greatest" player of all time isn't winning everything? Lmao nice logic, he was good in 07, winning pretty much everything, but he's never gained that form again."
thats saying moon was winning everything? and im the illiterate retard? nice one..
no factual backing? heres some i gathered quickly just for you
Moon
+ Show Spoiler +3rd BlizzCon 2010(Battle.net Season 8 Final)
1st E-Stars Seoul 2010 King of the Game
3rd Extreme Masters 5 Shanghai
2nd ESWC 2010 Grand Final
2nd BlizzCon 2010(Battle.net Season 8 Final) Qualifier
1st NGL-ONE Season 6
2nd Nvidia Game Festival
2nd STG E-Sports Contest
2nd World E-Sports Masters
2nd Extreme Masters 4 ChengDu
1st World Cyber Games Korea National Final
3rd Norton Anti-Virus GOMTV World Invitational
1st IEF Wuhan
2nd IeSF Invitational
2nd World Cyber Games
2nd ESWC Masters of Athens
1st World Cyber Games Korea National Final
3rd NWL Season 1
1st ESWC Masters of Paris
1st Blizzard Worldwide Invitation 2008
2nd PGL Season 3
1st CEG Shaoxing Tour
1st PGL Season 2
3rd IEF Masters
2nd Make Game Colorful
3rd World Cyber Games
2nd Afreeca Warcraft III League Season 1
1st DigitalLife Pro/Am Chengdu
1st World Cyber Games Korea National Final
1st MBCGame World War Summer Grand Prix
1st Dreamhack (Sweden)
1st MBCGame World War III (Korea)
1st WSVG (China)
1st Neo Star League (China)
1st MBCGame World War II (Korea)
1st MBCGame World War I (Korea)
1st MBCGame World War III (Korea)
1st MBCGame World War II (Korea)
1st Lenovo IEST (China)
1st Superfight 2 (Korea)
1st Digital Life Gaming Tournament 2006 (USA)
1st World E-Sports Festival (China)
1st China Korea Cyber Games (China)
1st World E-Sports Games Season I (Korea)
1st World E-Sports Games Season II (Korea)
1st MBCGame Warcraft League Season I (Korea)
2nd OnGameNet War3 TFT Invitational (Korea)
1st MBCGame Prime League V (Korea)
3rd World Cyber Games Korea National Final(Korea)
2nd MBCGame Prime League III (Korea)
1st MBCGame Prime League II (Korea)
Grubby
+ Show Spoiler +1st place, WCG 2004
1st place, SEC 2005
1st place, Revelcell Masters
1st place, ESWC 2005
1st place, CPL Istanbul
1st place, Blizzcon 2005
3rd place, WCG 2005
2nd place, BWI
1st place, Samsung ECG
1st place, V-Sport All Stars
1st place, WEF 2006
2nd place, WEG Masters 2006
1st place, WSVG London
3rd place, KODE5
1st place, WSVG Finals New York 2006
3rd Battle.net Season IV Finals 2007
2nd MBCGame World War Season I 2007
3rd Electronic Sports World Cup 2007
3rd MBCGame World War Grand Prix 2007
1st Extreme Masters Winter 2007
3rd Extreme Masters Season 2 2008
1st place, Race War Season III
2nd place, NWL Season 1
3rd place, World e-Sports Masters
1st place, WCG 2008
1st place, ESL Continental Final Asia
2nd place, Extreme Masters 3 Continental Finals Asia
1st place, Norton Anti-Virus GOMTV World Invitational
1st place, E-Stars Seoul 2009 King of the Game
2nd place, BlizzCon 2009(Battle.net Season 7 Final)
1st place, WEM 2009
2nd place, NGL-ONE Season 6
2nd place, E-Stars Seoul 2010 King of the Game
2nd place, WCG 2010
2nd place, IeSF 2010
thats taking into account top 3 finishes only.. (excluding trash tournaments.. e.g zotac)
want some more? sk-gaming prize money stats
Moon
Total
$303026.00 (World rank: 1th, Home rank: 1th)
Grubby
Total
$164193.00 (World rank: 2th, Home rank: 1th)
moon with double the prize money? moon only dominated for one year, grubby has always been dominant? please explain..
now how about instead of running your mouth about my posts having no factual backing, you show me some of your own to prove grubby as the greater of the 2?
P.S one off wins against moon, and blasphemy about individual tournaments (without looking at the collective statistics from numerous tournaments/seasons) mean nothing.. and also FYI "most innovative" also has nothing to do with "greatest", try again
|
On January 02 2011 15:56 hewtrain wrote:"Grubby has consistently placed in every top tourney every year he's been a pro gamer. Also if the game has "died" then how come the "greatest" player of all time isn't winning everything? Lmao nice logic, he was good in 07, winning pretty much everything, but he's never gained that form again."thats saying moon was winning everything? and im the illiterate retard? nice one.. no factual backing? heres some i gathered quickly just for you Moon+ Show Spoiler +3rd BlizzCon 2010(Battle.net Season 8 Final)
1st E-Stars Seoul 2010 King of the Game
3rd Extreme Masters 5 Shanghai
2nd ESWC 2010 Grand Final
2nd BlizzCon 2010(Battle.net Season 8 Final) Qualifier
1st NGL-ONE Season 6
2nd Nvidia Game Festival
2nd STG E-Sports Contest
2nd World E-Sports Masters
2nd Extreme Masters 4 ChengDu
1st World Cyber Games Korea National Final
3rd Norton Anti-Virus GOMTV World Invitational
1st IEF Wuhan
2nd IeSF Invitational
2nd World Cyber Games
2nd ESWC Masters of Athens
1st World Cyber Games Korea National Final
3rd NWL Season 1
1st ESWC Masters of Paris
1st Blizzard Worldwide Invitation 2008
2nd PGL Season 3
1st CEG Shaoxing Tour
1st PGL Season 2
3rd IEF Masters
2nd Make Game Colorful
3rd World Cyber Games
2nd Afreeca Warcraft III League Season 1
1st DigitalLife Pro/Am Chengdu
1st World Cyber Games Korea National Final
1st MBCGame World War Summer Grand Prix
1st Dreamhack (Sweden)
1st MBCGame World War III (Korea)
1st WSVG (China)
1st Neo Star League (China)
1st MBCGame World War II (Korea)
1st MBCGame World War I (Korea)
1st MBCGame World War III (Korea)
1st MBCGame World War II (Korea)
1st Lenovo IEST (China)
1st Superfight 2 (Korea)
1st Digital Life Gaming Tournament 2006 (USA)
1st World E-Sports Festival (China)
1st China Korea Cyber Games (China)
1st World E-Sports Games Season I (Korea)
1st World E-Sports Games Season II (Korea)
1st MBCGame Warcraft League Season I (Korea)
2nd OnGameNet War3 TFT Invitational (Korea)
1st MBCGame Prime League V (Korea)
3rd World Cyber Games Korea National Final(Korea)
2nd MBCGame Prime League III (Korea)
1st MBCGame Prime League II (Korea) 1st place, WCG 2004
1st place, SEC 2005
1st place, Revelcell Masters
1st place, ESWC 2005
1st place, CPL Istanbul
1st place, Blizzcon 2005
3rd place, WCG 2005
2nd place, BWI
1st place, Samsung ECG
1st place, V-Sport All Stars
1st place, WEF 2006
2nd place, WEG Masters 2006
1st place, WSVG London
3rd place, KODE5
1st place, WSVG Finals New York 2006
3rd Battle.net Season IV Finals 2007
2nd MBCGame World War Season I 2007
3rd Electronic Sports World Cup 2007
3rd MBCGame World War Grand Prix 2007
1st Extreme Masters Winter 2007
3rd Extreme Masters Season 2 2008
1st place, Race War Season III
2nd place, NWL Season 1
3rd place, World e-Sports Masters
1st place, WCG 2008
1st place, ESL Continental Final Asia
2nd place, Extreme Masters 3 Continental Finals Asia
1st place, Norton Anti-Virus GOMTV World Invitational
1st place, E-Stars Seoul 2009 King of the Game
2nd place, BlizzCon 2009(Battle.net Season 7 Final)
1st place, WEM 2009
2nd place, NGL-ONE Season 6
2nd place, E-Stars Seoul 2010 King of the Game
2nd place, WCG 2010
2nd place, IeSF 2010 thats taking into account top 3 finishes only.. (excluding trash tournaments.. e.g zotac) want some more? sk-gaming prize money stats MoonTotal $303026.00 (World rank: 1th, Home rank: 1th) GrubbyTotal $164193.00 (World rank: 2th, Home rank: 1th) moon with double the prize money purely from earnings? moon only dominated for one year, grubby has always been dominant? please explain.. now how about instead of running your mouth about my posts having no factual backing, you show me some of your own to prove grubby as the greater of the 2? P.S one off wins against moon, and blasphemy about individual tournaments (without looking at the collective statistics from numerous tournaments/seasons) mean nothing.. and also FYI "most innovative" also has nothing to do with "greatest", try again
As those are "estimated" earnings and on wikipedia it list Grubby money even higher I'll take that as those have no factual backing and is just an estimate. And his prize earnings =/= greatest of all time. His currently salary for WMF was listed at what? 585k USD, according to wikipedia for his contract. Oh look that just proved the totals you posted are outdated bull shit.
2nd Take a look at the dates of those tourney wins, Moon has 1st place finishes consistent with 07, the rest is a few in the other 6 years are just sporadic 1st placements.
3rd, are you kidding me? If you lose 2 of the biggest tourneys how does he deserve the title? Grubby has shown him up every single time when its mattered lmao. Moon is like the 19-1 Patriots, he was just never good enough to win the big games.
Edit: Also Moon won a good chunk of his prize money at GameX, where from what I see grubby didn't even play in it. iirc it conflicted with another tourney.
|
On January 02 2011 16:04 nGBeast wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2011 15:56 hewtrain wrote:"Grubby has consistently placed in every top tourney every year he's been a pro gamer. Also if the game has "died" then how come the "greatest" player of all time isn't winning everything? Lmao nice logic, he was good in 07, winning pretty much everything, but he's never gained that form again."thats saying moon was winning everything? and im the illiterate retard? nice one.. no factual backing? heres some i gathered quickly just for you Moon+ Show Spoiler +3rd BlizzCon 2010(Battle.net Season 8 Final)
1st E-Stars Seoul 2010 King of the Game
3rd Extreme Masters 5 Shanghai
2nd ESWC 2010 Grand Final
2nd BlizzCon 2010(Battle.net Season 8 Final) Qualifier
1st NGL-ONE Season 6
2nd Nvidia Game Festival
2nd STG E-Sports Contest
2nd World E-Sports Masters
2nd Extreme Masters 4 ChengDu
1st World Cyber Games Korea National Final
3rd Norton Anti-Virus GOMTV World Invitational
1st IEF Wuhan
2nd IeSF Invitational
2nd World Cyber Games
2nd ESWC Masters of Athens
1st World Cyber Games Korea National Final
3rd NWL Season 1
1st ESWC Masters of Paris
1st Blizzard Worldwide Invitation 2008
2nd PGL Season 3
1st CEG Shaoxing Tour
1st PGL Season 2
3rd IEF Masters
2nd Make Game Colorful
3rd World Cyber Games
2nd Afreeca Warcraft III League Season 1
1st DigitalLife Pro/Am Chengdu
1st World Cyber Games Korea National Final
1st MBCGame World War Summer Grand Prix
1st Dreamhack (Sweden)
1st MBCGame World War III (Korea)
1st WSVG (China)
1st Neo Star League (China)
1st MBCGame World War II (Korea)
1st MBCGame World War I (Korea)
1st MBCGame World War III (Korea)
1st MBCGame World War II (Korea)
1st Lenovo IEST (China)
1st Superfight 2 (Korea)
1st Digital Life Gaming Tournament 2006 (USA)
1st World E-Sports Festival (China)
1st China Korea Cyber Games (China)
1st World E-Sports Games Season I (Korea)
1st World E-Sports Games Season II (Korea)
1st MBCGame Warcraft League Season I (Korea)
2nd OnGameNet War3 TFT Invitational (Korea)
1st MBCGame Prime League V (Korea)
3rd World Cyber Games Korea National Final(Korea)
2nd MBCGame Prime League III (Korea)
1st MBCGame Prime League II (Korea) 1st place, WCG 2004
1st place, SEC 2005
1st place, Revelcell Masters
1st place, ESWC 2005
1st place, CPL Istanbul
1st place, Blizzcon 2005
3rd place, WCG 2005
2nd place, BWI
1st place, Samsung ECG
1st place, V-Sport All Stars
1st place, WEF 2006
2nd place, WEG Masters 2006
1st place, WSVG London
3rd place, KODE5
1st place, WSVG Finals New York 2006
3rd Battle.net Season IV Finals 2007
2nd MBCGame World War Season I 2007
3rd Electronic Sports World Cup 2007
3rd MBCGame World War Grand Prix 2007
1st Extreme Masters Winter 2007
3rd Extreme Masters Season 2 2008
1st place, Race War Season III
2nd place, NWL Season 1
3rd place, World e-Sports Masters
1st place, WCG 2008
1st place, ESL Continental Final Asia
2nd place, Extreme Masters 3 Continental Finals Asia
1st place, Norton Anti-Virus GOMTV World Invitational
1st place, E-Stars Seoul 2009 King of the Game
2nd place, BlizzCon 2009(Battle.net Season 7 Final)
1st place, WEM 2009
2nd place, NGL-ONE Season 6
2nd place, E-Stars Seoul 2010 King of the Game
2nd place, WCG 2010
2nd place, IeSF 2010 thats taking into account top 3 finishes only.. (excluding trash tournaments.. e.g zotac) want some more? sk-gaming prize money stats MoonTotal $303026.00 (World rank: 1th, Home rank: 1th) GrubbyTotal $164193.00 (World rank: 2th, Home rank: 1th) moon with double the prize money purely from earnings? moon only dominated for one year, grubby has always been dominant? please explain.. now how about instead of running your mouth about my posts having no factual backing, you show me some of your own to prove grubby as the greater of the 2? P.S one off wins against moon, and blasphemy about individual tournaments (without looking at the collective statistics from numerous tournaments/seasons) mean nothing.. and also FYI "most innovative" also has nothing to do with "greatest", try again As those are "estimated" earnings and on wikipedia it list Grubby money even higher I'll take that as those have no factual backing and is just an estimate. And his prize earnings =/= greatest of all time. His currently salary for WMF was listed at what? 585k USD, according to wikipedia for his contract. Oh look that just proved the totals you posted are outdated bull shit. 2nd Take a look at the dates of those tourney wins, Moon has 1st place finishes consistent with 07, the rest is a few in the other 6 years are just sporadic 1st placements. 3rd, are you kidding me? If you lose 2 of the biggest tourneys how does he deserve the title? Grubby has shown him up every single time when its mattered lmao. Moon is like the 19-1 Patriots, he was just never good enough to win the big games.
grats on making a fool of yourself again:
His currently salary for WMF was listed at what? 585k USD, according to wikipedia for his contract. Oh look that just proved the totals you posted are outdated bull shit.
prize money =/= salary hurrdurr..
you also continue to believe that the only matches that matter in this debate are moon vs grubby.. anyone can dig through the records and find individual matches of one player triumphing over another.. that means nothing at all here.. i still see no facts from you proving grubby as the greater player over moon.. none at all
|
On January 02 2011 16:09 hewtrain wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2011 16:04 nGBeast wrote:On January 02 2011 15:56 hewtrain wrote:"Grubby has consistently placed in every top tourney every year he's been a pro gamer. Also if the game has "died" then how come the "greatest" player of all time isn't winning everything? Lmao nice logic, he was good in 07, winning pretty much everything, but he's never gained that form again."thats saying moon was winning everything? and im the illiterate retard? nice one.. no factual backing? heres some i gathered quickly just for you Moon+ Show Spoiler +3rd BlizzCon 2010(Battle.net Season 8 Final)
1st E-Stars Seoul 2010 King of the Game
3rd Extreme Masters 5 Shanghai
2nd ESWC 2010 Grand Final
2nd BlizzCon 2010(Battle.net Season 8 Final) Qualifier
1st NGL-ONE Season 6
2nd Nvidia Game Festival
2nd STG E-Sports Contest
2nd World E-Sports Masters
2nd Extreme Masters 4 ChengDu
1st World Cyber Games Korea National Final
3rd Norton Anti-Virus GOMTV World Invitational
1st IEF Wuhan
2nd IeSF Invitational
2nd World Cyber Games
2nd ESWC Masters of Athens
1st World Cyber Games Korea National Final
3rd NWL Season 1
1st ESWC Masters of Paris
1st Blizzard Worldwide Invitation 2008
2nd PGL Season 3
1st CEG Shaoxing Tour
1st PGL Season 2
3rd IEF Masters
2nd Make Game Colorful
3rd World Cyber Games
2nd Afreeca Warcraft III League Season 1
1st DigitalLife Pro/Am Chengdu
1st World Cyber Games Korea National Final
1st MBCGame World War Summer Grand Prix
1st Dreamhack (Sweden)
1st MBCGame World War III (Korea)
1st WSVG (China)
1st Neo Star League (China)
1st MBCGame World War II (Korea)
1st MBCGame World War I (Korea)
1st MBCGame World War III (Korea)
1st MBCGame World War II (Korea)
1st Lenovo IEST (China)
1st Superfight 2 (Korea)
1st Digital Life Gaming Tournament 2006 (USA)
1st World E-Sports Festival (China)
1st China Korea Cyber Games (China)
1st World E-Sports Games Season I (Korea)
1st World E-Sports Games Season II (Korea)
1st MBCGame Warcraft League Season I (Korea)
2nd OnGameNet War3 TFT Invitational (Korea)
1st MBCGame Prime League V (Korea)
3rd World Cyber Games Korea National Final(Korea)
2nd MBCGame Prime League III (Korea)
1st MBCGame Prime League II (Korea) 1st place, WCG 2004
1st place, SEC 2005
1st place, Revelcell Masters
1st place, ESWC 2005
1st place, CPL Istanbul
1st place, Blizzcon 2005
3rd place, WCG 2005
2nd place, BWI
1st place, Samsung ECG
1st place, V-Sport All Stars
1st place, WEF 2006
2nd place, WEG Masters 2006
1st place, WSVG London
3rd place, KODE5
1st place, WSVG Finals New York 2006
3rd Battle.net Season IV Finals 2007
2nd MBCGame World War Season I 2007
3rd Electronic Sports World Cup 2007
3rd MBCGame World War Grand Prix 2007
1st Extreme Masters Winter 2007
3rd Extreme Masters Season 2 2008
1st place, Race War Season III
2nd place, NWL Season 1
3rd place, World e-Sports Masters
1st place, WCG 2008
1st place, ESL Continental Final Asia
2nd place, Extreme Masters 3 Continental Finals Asia
1st place, Norton Anti-Virus GOMTV World Invitational
1st place, E-Stars Seoul 2009 King of the Game
2nd place, BlizzCon 2009(Battle.net Season 7 Final)
1st place, WEM 2009
2nd place, NGL-ONE Season 6
2nd place, E-Stars Seoul 2010 King of the Game
2nd place, WCG 2010
2nd place, IeSF 2010 thats taking into account top 3 finishes only.. (excluding trash tournaments.. e.g zotac) want some more? sk-gaming prize money stats MoonTotal $303026.00 (World rank: 1th, Home rank: 1th) GrubbyTotal $164193.00 (World rank: 2th, Home rank: 1th) moon with double the prize money purely from earnings? moon only dominated for one year, grubby has always been dominant? please explain.. now how about instead of running your mouth about my posts having no factual backing, you show me some of your own to prove grubby as the greater of the 2? P.S one off wins against moon, and blasphemy about individual tournaments (without looking at the collective statistics from numerous tournaments/seasons) mean nothing.. and also FYI "most innovative" also has nothing to do with "greatest", try again As those are "estimated" earnings and on wikipedia it list Grubby money even higher I'll take that as those have no factual backing and is just an estimate. And his prize earnings =/= greatest of all time. His currently salary for WMF was listed at what? 585k USD, according to wikipedia for his contract. Oh look that just proved the totals you posted are outdated bull shit. 2nd Take a look at the dates of those tourney wins, Moon has 1st place finishes consistent with 07, the rest is a few in the other 6 years are just sporadic 1st placements. 3rd, are you kidding me? If you lose 2 of the biggest tourneys how does he deserve the title? Grubby has shown him up every single time when its mattered lmao. Moon is like the 19-1 Patriots, he was just never good enough to win the big games. grats on making a fool of yourself again: His currently salary for WMF was listed at what? 585k USD, according to wikipedia for his contract. Oh look that just proved the totals you posted are outdated bull shit.
prize money =/= salary hurrdurr.. you also continue to believe that the only matches that matter in this debate are moon vs grubby.. anyone can dig through the records and find individual matches of one player triumphing over another.. that means nothing at all here.. i still see no facts from you proving grubby as the greater player over moon.. none at all
If Grubby winning the biggest, and best competitions that moon has never won doesn't even make him better then what does? Keep your /b/ logic on /b/. I proved several facts that he's won tourneys moon hasn't and you go WELL HERP DERP IT DOESN"T MATTER HERP. Am i right or does that not qualify him as the greatest? lol you don't even know how to categorize that. All you do is take your wikipedia knowledge and try and prove that moon is better, when he's been out classed several times, like vs Zacard in 04, and by Freedom in Ongamenet War3 TFT Invitational.
And seeing as were debating about Moon and grubby you would think grubby out classing him on the big stages several times would account for something, but no, not by your logic!
|
On January 02 2011 16:14 nGBeast wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2011 16:09 hewtrain wrote:On January 02 2011 16:04 nGBeast wrote:On January 02 2011 15:56 hewtrain wrote:"Grubby has consistently placed in every top tourney every year he's been a pro gamer. Also if the game has "died" then how come the "greatest" player of all time isn't winning everything? Lmao nice logic, he was good in 07, winning pretty much everything, but he's never gained that form again."thats saying moon was winning everything? and im the illiterate retard? nice one.. no factual backing? heres some i gathered quickly just for you Moon+ Show Spoiler +3rd BlizzCon 2010(Battle.net Season 8 Final)
1st E-Stars Seoul 2010 King of the Game
3rd Extreme Masters 5 Shanghai
2nd ESWC 2010 Grand Final
2nd BlizzCon 2010(Battle.net Season 8 Final) Qualifier
1st NGL-ONE Season 6
2nd Nvidia Game Festival
2nd STG E-Sports Contest
2nd World E-Sports Masters
2nd Extreme Masters 4 ChengDu
1st World Cyber Games Korea National Final
3rd Norton Anti-Virus GOMTV World Invitational
1st IEF Wuhan
2nd IeSF Invitational
2nd World Cyber Games
2nd ESWC Masters of Athens
1st World Cyber Games Korea National Final
3rd NWL Season 1
1st ESWC Masters of Paris
1st Blizzard Worldwide Invitation 2008
2nd PGL Season 3
1st CEG Shaoxing Tour
1st PGL Season 2
3rd IEF Masters
2nd Make Game Colorful
3rd World Cyber Games
2nd Afreeca Warcraft III League Season 1
1st DigitalLife Pro/Am Chengdu
1st World Cyber Games Korea National Final
1st MBCGame World War Summer Grand Prix
1st Dreamhack (Sweden)
1st MBCGame World War III (Korea)
1st WSVG (China)
1st Neo Star League (China)
1st MBCGame World War II (Korea)
1st MBCGame World War I (Korea)
1st MBCGame World War III (Korea)
1st MBCGame World War II (Korea)
1st Lenovo IEST (China)
1st Superfight 2 (Korea)
1st Digital Life Gaming Tournament 2006 (USA)
1st World E-Sports Festival (China)
1st China Korea Cyber Games (China)
1st World E-Sports Games Season I (Korea)
1st World E-Sports Games Season II (Korea)
1st MBCGame Warcraft League Season I (Korea)
2nd OnGameNet War3 TFT Invitational (Korea)
1st MBCGame Prime League V (Korea)
3rd World Cyber Games Korea National Final(Korea)
2nd MBCGame Prime League III (Korea)
1st MBCGame Prime League II (Korea) 1st place, WCG 2004
1st place, SEC 2005
1st place, Revelcell Masters
1st place, ESWC 2005
1st place, CPL Istanbul
1st place, Blizzcon 2005
3rd place, WCG 2005
2nd place, BWI
1st place, Samsung ECG
1st place, V-Sport All Stars
1st place, WEF 2006
2nd place, WEG Masters 2006
1st place, WSVG London
3rd place, KODE5
1st place, WSVG Finals New York 2006
3rd Battle.net Season IV Finals 2007
2nd MBCGame World War Season I 2007
3rd Electronic Sports World Cup 2007
3rd MBCGame World War Grand Prix 2007
1st Extreme Masters Winter 2007
3rd Extreme Masters Season 2 2008
1st place, Race War Season III
2nd place, NWL Season 1
3rd place, World e-Sports Masters
1st place, WCG 2008
1st place, ESL Continental Final Asia
2nd place, Extreme Masters 3 Continental Finals Asia
1st place, Norton Anti-Virus GOMTV World Invitational
1st place, E-Stars Seoul 2009 King of the Game
2nd place, BlizzCon 2009(Battle.net Season 7 Final)
1st place, WEM 2009
2nd place, NGL-ONE Season 6
2nd place, E-Stars Seoul 2010 King of the Game
2nd place, WCG 2010
2nd place, IeSF 2010 thats taking into account top 3 finishes only.. (excluding trash tournaments.. e.g zotac) want some more? sk-gaming prize money stats MoonTotal $303026.00 (World rank: 1th, Home rank: 1th) GrubbyTotal $164193.00 (World rank: 2th, Home rank: 1th) moon with double the prize money purely from earnings? moon only dominated for one year, grubby has always been dominant? please explain.. now how about instead of running your mouth about my posts having no factual backing, you show me some of your own to prove grubby as the greater of the 2? P.S one off wins against moon, and blasphemy about individual tournaments (without looking at the collective statistics from numerous tournaments/seasons) mean nothing.. and also FYI "most innovative" also has nothing to do with "greatest", try again As those are "estimated" earnings and on wikipedia it list Grubby money even higher I'll take that as those have no factual backing and is just an estimate. And his prize earnings =/= greatest of all time. His currently salary for WMF was listed at what? 585k USD, according to wikipedia for his contract. Oh look that just proved the totals you posted are outdated bull shit. 2nd Take a look at the dates of those tourney wins, Moon has 1st place finishes consistent with 07, the rest is a few in the other 6 years are just sporadic 1st placements. 3rd, are you kidding me? If you lose 2 of the biggest tourneys how does he deserve the title? Grubby has shown him up every single time when its mattered lmao. Moon is like the 19-1 Patriots, he was just never good enough to win the big games. grats on making a fool of yourself again: His currently salary for WMF was listed at what? 585k USD, according to wikipedia for his contract. Oh look that just proved the totals you posted are outdated bull shit.
prize money =/= salary hurrdurr.. you also continue to believe that the only matches that matter in this debate are moon vs grubby.. anyone can dig through the records and find individual matches of one player triumphing over another.. that means nothing at all here.. i still see no facts from you proving grubby as the greater player over moon.. none at all If Grubby winning the biggest, and best competitions that moon has never won doesn't even make him better then what does? Keep your /b/ logic on /b/. I proved several facts that he's won tourneys moon hasn't and you go WELL HERP DERP IT DOESN"T MATTER HERP. Am i right?
simply, no, you are not right.. grubby winning 1-2 major tournaments (1 where he gets auto qualification, while moon has to battle 10+ players that could easily make top 3 at finals), proves nothing.. nothing at all..
how does a one off match/tournament prove anything? moon roflstomped grubby constantly for about 18 months.. grubby would be lucky to have ever gone 6 months without losing to moon, guess what.. that doesnt mean jack, because individual matchups have no bearing on overall greatness because the fact is both players can and have got the job done for years now.. so saying grubby has won a tournament moon hasnt is pointless.. WAKE UP.. moon has won tournaments grubby hasnt too
Edit: also.. WCG Korea > WCG Finals.. in terms of difficulty.. any non-retarded wc3 follower (or sc follower.. or basically any rts follower) knows that.. so how is grubby winning wcg proof of him being greater? when moon has to win an even harder tournament to even qualify? you continue to ignore grubby's auto qualifcation every year, and then use it as some sort of non-proof of his superiority..
|
simply, no, you are not right.. grubby winning 1-2 major tournaments (1 where he gets auto qualification, while moon has to battle 10+ players that could easily make top 3 at finals), proves nothing.. nothing at all..
how does a one off match/tournament prove anything? moon roflstomped grubby constantly for about 18 months.. grubby would be lucky to have ever gone 6 months without losing to moon, guess what.. that doesnt mean jack, because individual matchups have no bearing on overall greatness because the fact is both players can and have got the job done for years now.. so saying grubby has won a tournament moon hasnt is pointless.. WAKE UP.. moon has won tournaments grubby hasnt too
Edit: also.. WCG Korea > WCG Finals.. in terms of difficulty.. any non-retarded wc3 follower (or sc follower.. or basically any rts follower) knows that.. so how is grubby winning wcg proof of him being greater? when moon has to win an even harder tournament to even qualify? you continue to ignore grubby's auto qualifcation every year, and then use it as some sort of non-proof of his superiority...
I'm glad your entire argument is "no your wrong I'm right" lol. Winning WCG > WCG Korea. Grubby has to play good players to make it to the finals right? Nope he auto qualified to the tourney so of course he auto qualifies to the finals!!!1111
The only tourneys moon has really won were Korean/chinese tourneys that weren't available to foreigners, but looking at the major international tourneys Grubby outright dominates Moon. Theres no criteria for G.O.A.T, and its basically your preference. Creo could have wiped the floor with moon and grubby, had he gave 2 shits about being a pro gamer. But you just keep going on and on about me being wrong and you right cause its just a circular argument now.
|
On January 02 2011 16:31 nGBeast wrote:Show nested quote + simply, no, you are not right.. grubby winning 1-2 major tournaments (1 where he gets auto qualification, while moon has to battle 10+ players that could easily make top 3 at finals), proves nothing.. nothing at all..
how does a one off match/tournament prove anything? moon roflstomped grubby constantly for about 18 months.. grubby would be lucky to have ever gone 6 months without losing to moon, guess what.. that doesnt mean jack, because individual matchups have no bearing on overall greatness because the fact is both players can and have got the job done for years now.. so saying grubby has won a tournament moon hasnt is pointless.. WAKE UP.. moon has won tournaments grubby hasnt too
Edit: also.. WCG Korea > WCG Finals.. in terms of difficulty.. any non-retarded wc3 follower (or sc follower.. or basically any rts follower) knows that.. so how is grubby winning wcg proof of him being greater? when moon has to win an even harder tournament to even qualify? you continue to ignore grubby's auto qualifcation every year, and then use it as some sort of non-proof of his superiority...
I'm glad your entire argument is "no your wrong I'm right" lol. Winning WCG > WCG Korea. Grubby has to play good players to make it to the finals right? Nope he auto qualified to the tourney so of course he auto qualifies to the finals!!!1111 The only tourneys moon has really won were Korean/chinese tourneys that weren't available, but looking at the major international tourneys Grubby outright dominates Moon. Theres no criteria for G.O.A.T, and its basically your preference. Creo could have wiped the floor with moon and grubby, had he gave 2 shits about being a pro gamer. But you just keep going on and on about me being wrong and you right cause its just circular logic you use.
if you really think WCG finals are harder than WCG Korea you need your head checked..
Grubby basically has to play rotterdam to get qualification year after year.. and then only has to go through 3-4 TOP players to make it to the WCG grand final.. Moon has to go through 5-6 TOP players to qualify for the main stage.. and THEN has to go through another 3-4 TOP players to make it to the grand finals..
if you also think moon has only won tournaments that were unavailable for grubby i have nothing more to say..
give me some fucking facts, not some trash talking bullshit, bringing up creo (who i have mad respect for.. and dont disagree with you about him), and belittling moons tournament wins..
you say my entire argument is "no your wrong im right".. ive given you facts.. a list of tournament top 3, prize money, etc.. what have you given me? nothing other than this absolute horse shit that your spewing about WCG finals..
time and time again that is all you mention
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Australia8532 Posts
This is pretty crazy.. if he has the ability to be a hybrid player there will be a lot of respect for this guy.. saying that i assume that the hours of dedication from a Fruitdealer will trump this kid any day of the weekend..
Nevertheless - good luck to him, i am excited to see another Pro Toss player
edit; intentionally ignoring the flame fest above me
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On January 02 2011 16:31 nGBeast wrote:Show nested quote + simply, no, you are not right.. grubby winning 1-2 major tournaments (1 where he gets auto qualification, while moon has to battle 10+ players that could easily make top 3 at finals), proves nothing.. nothing at all..
how does a one off match/tournament prove anything? moon roflstomped grubby constantly for about 18 months.. grubby would be lucky to have ever gone 6 months without losing to moon, guess what.. that doesnt mean jack, because individual matchups have no bearing on overall greatness because the fact is both players can and have got the job done for years now.. so saying grubby has won a tournament moon hasnt is pointless.. WAKE UP.. moon has won tournaments grubby hasnt too
Edit: also.. WCG Korea > WCG Finals.. in terms of difficulty.. any non-retarded wc3 follower (or sc follower.. or basically any rts follower) knows that.. so how is grubby winning wcg proof of him being greater? when moon has to win an even harder tournament to even qualify? you continue to ignore grubby's auto qualifcation every year, and then use it as some sort of non-proof of his superiority...
I'm glad your entire argument is "no your wrong I'm right" lol. Winning WCG > WCG Korea. Grubby has to play good players to make it to the finals right? Nope he auto qualified to the tourney so of course he auto qualifies to the finals!!!1111 The only tourneys moon has really won were Korean/chinese tourneys that weren't available to foreigners, but looking at the major international tourneys Grubby outright dominates Moon. Theres no criteria for G.O.A.T, and its basically your preference. Creo could have wiped the floor with moon and grubby, had he gave 2 shits about being a pro gamer. But you just keep going on and on about me being wrong and you right cause its just a circular argument now.
based on your only argument the top 5 greatest wc3 players of all time would look roughly like this:
1. grubby
2. sky
3. remind
4. infi
5. creo
so i guess moon isnt even a top 5 player? lmfao
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On January 02 2011 14:35 kuresuti wrote:
I believe fatal1ty played several games at a top level throughout his career. I don't know anything about FPS games but if they are as different to one another as WC3 is to SC2, I don't see why it can't be done.
Maybe if he keeps up with popular timing attacks and all-ins and practises against those to get into the lategame, pure skill could take over and the lack of game knowledge would matter less.
Fatal1ty is kind of an anomaly. He was able to be in the top for when the games first came out because he started an industry around himself and was able to not have to actually hold a stable job outside of gaming, thus acting as true "progamer" while others couldn't. The games he played all were similar, and he wasn't exactly a hybrid player (he didn't play different games at the same time, just switched a lot), and also tons of players switched games along with him, contented for top spots alongside him, and eventually came to dominate the scene over him.
For example, fatal1ty, Cooller, and toxjq all played Quake 3, and transitioned to Quake 4.
In Q3 fat was good for first 2 years of the game, toxiq was the best at TDM for the whole time when TDM was popular (every form, 2v2, 3v3, 4v4), fat quit Q3 and switched to Painkiller in 2004+2005 and Cooller dominated for 2003 -> 2006. Then Q4 came out. Fat dominated in the first year, then toxjq started dominating, fat quit, then Cooller and his protege av3k dominated after that.
In Fat's painkiller switch, 2004, the first year, he got dominated by vo0, the best cpm player (a quake 3 mod with different physics, physics that were similar to painkiller's physics), then in 2005 vo0 dominated but lost in a very close match in the CPL finals (it was a world tour, and vo0 won pretty much every other event that year).
Fatal1ty was never a hybrid player, and got dominated after he lost his advantage of being able to grind out more games than everyone else.
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This thread is getting trolled hard, but all I got to say is GL to Grubby and hope to see him in GSL and other tournies soon.
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On January 02 2011 15:36 nGBeast wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2011 15:11 hewtrain wrote:On January 02 2011 14:53 nGBeast wrote:On January 02 2011 14:33 hewtrain wrote:On January 02 2011 14:27 nGBeast wrote:On January 02 2011 14:02 hewtrain wrote:ban inc but i dont give a shit On January 01 2011 08:09 travis wrote:
did you wake up on the wrong side of the fucking bed? every single post you made in this thread you sound like a fucking whining asshat, i dont give a shit how many posts you have, you are a fucking douche.. P.S On January 01 2011 07:38 ffz wrote:
Stop with this bs aobut "one of the greatest ever in wc3". He is THE greatest... His micro and macro are both so amazing. Plus his mind is made for strategy. get a clue + Show Spoiler + are you serious? Grubby has been the most consistent WC3 player of all time. Moon has only a few top finishes in the big tourneys in the last 2 year, and the last was NGL One where he came in 1st, his last good 1st place finish was IEF in 2008, pretty much the end of his good streak. listen to yourself idiot.. 'only a few top finishes in the big tourneys in the last 2 years'.. wc3 has died down considerably in the last 2 years and the life of wc3 goes LONG beyond a span of only 2 years.. you dont mention 06-07 when grubby was copping anal from euro trash elves for a whole year? you also just brush aside his NGL win because it suits your argument.. lmfao what a fucking joke of a post and claim.. anyone who has any idea knows moon is far and away the greatest wc3 player of all time.. as for 2nd place? then maybe we can mention grubby Your obviously an idiot who hasn't followed wc3, or his fanboyism is to far up your ass to take a look at the acheivements lmao. NGL One was a joke compared to what NGL use to be. Grubby has consistently placed in every top tourney every year he's been a pro gamer. Also if the game has "died" then how come the "greatest" player of all time isn't winning everything? Lmao nice logic, he was good in 07, winning pretty much everything, but he's never gained that form again. He's never even won WCG lmao. Sorry bud, but your fanboyism only takes you so far. Edit: Grubby shit on him in WEM finals in 2009, and in WCG 2008. Grubby is also the only player to win WCG and ESWC. wrong.. for a start, NGL use to be a team league before it became solo, how can you compare the two? grubby "winning pretty much everything" in 07? and im the one who is "obviously an idiot who hasn't followed wc3, or his fanboyism is to far up your ass to take a look at the acheivements lmao" grubby was getting raped in 07 by every top 5 elf.. also read my post, i didnt say the game has died, i said it has died DOWN, meaning the scene is far weaker than it use to be (never stated it was dead).. even if wc3 had died already, why does that mean the "greatest player of all time" would be winning everything? you clearly have no idea of the difference between current best and greatest of all time.. stating he has never won WCG as an argument is an absolute joke, taking into consideration grubby gets auto qualification to the finals every year, meanwhile in korea moon has to fight tooth and nail just to get qualification year after year against top names such as lyn, remind, lucifer, fov, focus, who etc.. allow me to ask you who grubby has EVER beaten to gain entry to the WCG finals? rotterdam? lmfao hardly comparible.. " Sorry bud, but your fanboyism only takes you so far." 1. im not even a moon fan, in fact he is not even in my favourite 5 players. 2. find a mirror edit: you pretty much proved how much of a fucking moron you are by stating 2 matches where grubby defeated moon, like that has some sort of bearing on which of the 2 is the greater of ALL time.. Don't know where i said grubby won everything in 2007 lol, I said moon you illiterate retard. Grubby taking Moon out of 2 of the biggest tourneys of all time is nothing to be proud of right? Lol? Moon qualified for WCG countless times and only 1-2 made a top 3 finish (losing to Grubby ofc and getting out classed severely). Moon only dominated in 1 year (07) and has been on a decline ever since, even look at before 07, he was decent but Grubby still is more notable. Looking at Grubby history of tourneys, hes won EVERY major tourney. Not counting his team tourneys with 4K, his achievements far out weight Moon. Sorry bud, moon was only good for 1 year, Grubby has been great since he became big (2004 WCG win). Hell, even I'd take Creo over both of them. That guy came out of retirement and raped beyond belief. Edit: To your 2nd comment, if Moon can't even win tourneys on a game on a slow decline with less and less top players then how can you claim he's the greatest? Fuck even th0000 is mroe innovative then moon. Sorry but your post is just riddled with personal attacks and no factual backing, your just a blithering idiot.
Did u know that wc3 proscene had been existed before 2007 ?
Do u know how the hell could Grubby & european like ToD & Chinese like Sky could get out of noob mode ? Go to Korea and getting raped. I still laugh seeing back how the European allstars (which included then fresh WCG winner Grubby) getting annihilated 0-5, 1-5 by the Korean all-stars, and no one could afford to get past the groupstage of any Korean Starleague they attended cuz there were at least 15 Koreans who were better than the top1 European and WCG winner aka Grubby. On a side note Moon won 2 MBCs and went depth in OGNs
Furthermore, so feared of the aforementioned constant rapes, Grubby even dodged his invitation to three World Esport Games in 2005, which were possibly the biggest and most competitive wc3 tourneys in the history, gathering Korea's best and world's best. And guess what, Moon won two editions of WEG and grabbing yet another MBC gold
Yea I wanna point out WCG & ESWC achievement are bullshit. I guess no one could debate the fact that Korean qualifiers are brazillion times harder than the actual league, It's like comparing OSL/MSL level with WCG level. Winning one bo3 against random top Korean and u get gold, whats the deal ? Moon did not qualify for WCG countless of times retard cuz there were ppl who'r even better than Moon at times like Freedom in 2004 and Fov in 2006
Talking about teamleagues, since the era of Korean invading every teams (season VIII) Moon's MYM won 2 editions of WC3L, as many as Grubby's 4Kings. Moon's MYM even won another NGL League (winnerleague-like of wc3) over 4Kings. Your arguement about team-achievement fails, as much as your individual achievement one.
Lastly how could TH000 be more innovative than Moon when he just re-used weird strat by some oldschool Koreans (like going MountainKing 1st - his only notable so-called innovation). Oh wait, u probably hadnt picked up the CD-key until 2007
Sky won 2 WCGs & numerous leagues too, and I respected him much more than Grubby cuz he's not a dodger and he didnt find excuse, whine or write emo linkinpark blog every he lost.
Get a clue kid, I could teach u a lesson or two about the history of WC3
edit:
The only tourneys moon has really won were Korean/chinese tourneys that weren't available to foreigners, but looking at the major international tourneys Grubby outright dominates Moon. Theres no criteria for G.O.A.T, and its basically your preference. Creo could have wiped the floor with moon and grubby, had he gave 2 shits about being a pro gamer. But you just keep going on and on about me being wrong and you right cause its just a circular argument now.
as I said before, Korean tourney did invite Europeans (they woulda probably fallen short in the qualification though) but they epicly failed lol. Talking about international tourney, the only tour Grubby won and Moon didnt is WCG, but the ones Moon won and Grubby didnt are too many ( for example a GameX tourney in Russia with 100K prize for 1st place, way better than WCG huh ?). Creo is an one-hit wonder btw, just like how randomly WCG can be won.
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On January 01 2011 06:25 chobopeon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2011 06:16 HollowLord wrote:
Kind of cocky if you ask me. Pick a side Grubby, war is coming. Winter is coming
Winter never changes.
I never played WC3 so I'm curious what all the fuss is about. I saw a picture of his wife and I must see he played well there. We'll see how he does anyway, why should we care whether he plays one game and one game only - or two? A bit boring, this advance praise&flame. Patience, guys, patience.
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I think its the logical thing to do. He will prolly play ALOT sc2 and just wc3 on occasion ´for the tournaments. He can still make money of wc3 so why shouldnt he?
It will take a very long time for him to get deep in a sc2 tournament anyways, but P seems the right race for him and he might make it in a GSL this or next year and maybe in 1-2 years he might be good.
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Succesful hybrid player? Elky of course (meanwhile playing poker too). But he also didn't come from just any RTS.
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grubby should get a teamliquid account^^
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If the korean wcg qualifiers are so much harder than the actual league howcome remind was the first korean to ever win wcg (2010) when they get the most spots in wcg aswell (maybe china gets same).. get a clue please. WCG world finals has the best korean players and the best chinese players (who are as good or better than korean players) aswell as the top europeans who are as good as the koreans/chinese (tod/grubby/insomnia/creo/hot/sase etc).
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On January 02 2011 14:27 nGBeast wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2011 14:02 hewtrain wrote:ban inc but i dont give a shit On January 01 2011 08:09 travis wrote:
did you wake up on the wrong side of the fucking bed? every single post you made in this thread you sound like a fucking whining asshat, i dont give a shit how many posts you have, you are a fucking douche.. P.S On January 01 2011 07:38 ffz wrote:
Stop with this bs aobut "one of the greatest ever in wc3". He is THE greatest... His micro and macro are both so amazing. Plus his mind is made for strategy. get a clue + Show Spoiler + are you serious? Grubby has been the most consistent WC3 player of all time. Moon has only a few top finishes in the big tourneys in the last 2 year, and the last was NGL One where he came in 1st, his last good 1st place finish was IEF in 2008, pretty much the end of his good streak.
Oh man... /facepalm.
Moon has been on top level since 2002 which is longer than Grubby. He's one of the most consistent players since the beginning and he's in the top 5 for winning the most amount of prize money which doesn't even include money from sponsorship deals and contracts.
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Just realised this has turned into a Moon vs Grubby fanboy shitstorm.
I feel like I'm on SK-Gaming forums all over again.
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On January 03 2011 05:31 Lennon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2011 14:27 nGBeast wrote:On January 02 2011 14:02 hewtrain wrote:ban inc but i dont give a shit On January 01 2011 08:09 travis wrote:
did you wake up on the wrong side of the fucking bed? every single post you made in this thread you sound like a fucking whining asshat, i dont give a shit how many posts you have, you are a fucking douche.. P.S On January 01 2011 07:38 ffz wrote:
Stop with this bs aobut "one of the greatest ever in wc3". He is THE greatest... His micro and macro are both so amazing. Plus his mind is made for strategy. get a clue + Show Spoiler + are you serious? Grubby has been the most consistent WC3 player of all time. Moon has only a few top finishes in the big tourneys in the last 2 year, and the last was NGL One where he came in 1st, his last good 1st place finish was IEF in 2008, pretty much the end of his good streak. Oh man... /facepalm. Moon has been on top level since 2002 which is longer than Grubby. He's one of the most consistent players since the beginning and he's in the top 5 for winning the most amount of prize money which doesn't even include money from sponsorship deals and contracts.
/facepalm
TFT has only been out since 2003, and he started playing in 03, so check your dates broski. Grubby has been the best player when orc was considered the weakest race also, while night elf is the only race that was never considered weak. Grubby and Moon both started around the same time.
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good luck grubby wc3 is terrible. imo.
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On January 03 2011 05:34 Lennon wrote:
Just realised this has turned into a Moon vs Grubby fanboy shitstorm.
I feel like I'm on SK-Gaming forums all over again. So true... Can't we just agree that they both are fucking amazing wc3 players.
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8748 Posts
I don't think there's anything particularly difficult about this. Everyone is practicing different amounts of time due to different commitments and levels of interest. Just because Grubby's reason is being a progamer at another game doesn't make him special. If he plays 4 hours of sc2 a day and 4 hours of wc3 a day, he can get top 3 in major tournaments in both as long as he's talented. If he does relatively poorly at sc2, I hope no one makes any excuses for him :o
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I dont think that wc3 players can be very successful sc players , so until there is wc3 scene it is very smart descision by grubby imo.
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On January 03 2011 06:34 Weavel wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2011 05:34 Lennon wrote:
Just realised this has turned into a Moon vs Grubby fanboy shitstorm.
I feel like I'm on SK-Gaming forums all over again. So true... Can't we just agree that they both are fucking amazing wc3 players.
First reasonable post since 2 pages back.
Geez
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On January 03 2011 06:39 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
I don't think there's anything particularly difficult about this. Everyone is practicing different amounts of time due to different commitments and levels of interest. Just because Grubby's reason is being a progamer at another game doesn't make him special. If he plays 4 hours of sc2 a day and 4 hours of wc3 a day, he can get top 3 in major tournaments in both as long as he's talented. If he does relatively poorly at sc2, I hope no one makes any excuses for him :o
I wonder though. It's not just the time, it's that playing two different games which require different strategies, mechanics and thought processes might be a difficult balance. I don't know! I look forward to seeing how he does.
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he's only a hybrid player as long as there are wc3 tournaments to play ^^
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I am just wondering how do you get back to War3 after a quick session of SC2. I played WC3 for 8 years and after a few months of SC2 I can't even remember an opening. WC3 and SC2 are the complete oposites and the only thing in common between these games is the interface. Having said that I wish Grubby the best of luck in SC2 and I hope he becomes among the best players of this game. After all if there is a non-Korean player I would root for till the end, that's Grubby. I just remembered all the good times I had watching this guy play .
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Orc player in wc3!!! GRUBBY HFGHTING
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On January 03 2011 06:39 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
I don't think there's anything particularly difficult about this. Everyone is practicing different amounts of time due to different commitments and levels of interest. Just because Grubby's reason is being a progamer at another game doesn't make him special. If he plays 4 hours of sc2 a day and 4 hours of wc3 a day, he can get top 3 in major tournaments in both as long as he's talented. If he does relatively poorly at sc2, I hope no one makes any excuses for him :o
haha, you say that just because you don't play that much and can rape most people. But I wonder if you (or Grubby, for exemple), played like 8h a day, how would it be?
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I really hope Grubby is successful in Sc2. I really loved watching him in Wc3. But one things for sure, hes gonna have insane micro.
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On January 03 2011 07:15 Inex wrote:I am just wondering how do you get back to War3 after a quick session of SC2. I played WC3 for 8 years and after a few months of SC2 I can't even remember an opening. WC3 and SC2 are the complete oposites and the only thing in common between these games is the interface. Having said that I wish Grubby the best of luck in SC2 and I hope he becomes among the best players of this game. After all if there is a non-Korean player I would root for till the end, that's Grubby. I just remembered all the good times I had watching this guy play .
Moon and Lyn are doing it well enough to have reached Open GSL2 so I doubt a player of similar caliber has trouble switching between the games. Playing games at that level for so long probably gives you an edge.
I hope to see more of Grubby I always loved his Orc playstyle in WC3 and can't wait to see how he does in SC2.
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So far just about every amazing wc3/sc1 player has been pretty disappointing in sc2 so I don't expect to see Grubby winning gsl or anything.
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On January 03 2011 10:18 nathangonmad wrote:
I really hope Grubby is successful in Sc2. I really loved watching him in Wc3. But one things for sure, hes gonna have insane micro.
The idea that WC3 players have super amazing micro is completely false as far as I have seen. I refuse to believe that anybody on the planet has micro as good as Jaedong, not to mention his macro.
I didn't see anything out of the ordinary from Moon in the GSL.
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On January 03 2011 10:30 Xolo wrote:
So far just about every amazing wc3/sc1 player has been pretty disappointing in sc2 so I don't expect to see Grubby winning gsl or anything.
The most amazing SC1 players are still playing BW, the less amazing ones have won all GSL's
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On January 03 2011 10:34 Saechiis wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2011 10:30 Xolo wrote:
So far just about every amazing wc3/sc1 player has been pretty disappointing in sc2 so I don't expect to see Grubby winning gsl or anything. The most amazing SC1 players are still playing BW, the less amazing ones have won all GSL's
I never really followed the sc scene but I'm almost certain that Boxer and Nada were supposed to be some of the best sc1 players, and while they're obviously not doing completely horrible in sc2, they're not dominating by any mean.
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Boxer and Nada (even moreso for Boxer) aren't at their prime anymore.
Also I think it's to early to judge players like Moon and Lyn like I have said earlier.
As for the Grubby vs Moon, it's like fighting over Bryant vs James or Manning vs Brady, let's just say they are both good and keep it at that.
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On January 03 2011 06:26 nGBeast wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2011 05:31 Lennon wrote:On January 02 2011 14:27 nGBeast wrote:On January 02 2011 14:02 hewtrain wrote:ban inc but i dont give a shit On January 01 2011 08:09 travis wrote:
did you wake up on the wrong side of the fucking bed? every single post you made in this thread you sound like a fucking whining asshat, i dont give a shit how many posts you have, you are a fucking douche.. P.S On January 01 2011 07:38 ffz wrote:
Stop with this bs aobut "one of the greatest ever in wc3". He is THE greatest... His micro and macro are both so amazing. Plus his mind is made for strategy. get a clue + Show Spoiler + are you serious? Grubby has been the most consistent WC3 player of all time. Moon has only a few top finishes in the big tourneys in the last 2 year, and the last was NGL One where he came in 1st, his last good 1st place finish was IEF in 2008, pretty much the end of his good streak. Oh man... /facepalm. Moon has been on top level since 2002 which is longer than Grubby. He's one of the most consistent players since the beginning and he's in the top 5 for winning the most amount of prize money which doesn't even include money from sponsorship deals and contracts. /facepalm TFT has only been out since 2003, and he started playing in 03, so check your dates broski. Grubby has been the best player when orc was considered the weakest race also, while night elf is the only race that was never considered weak. Grubby and Moon both started around the same time.
There were RoC tournaments too.
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On January 03 2011 11:05 Lennon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2011 06:26 nGBeast wrote:On January 03 2011 05:31 Lennon wrote:On January 02 2011 14:27 nGBeast wrote:On January 02 2011 14:02 hewtrain wrote:ban inc but i dont give a shit On January 01 2011 08:09 travis wrote:
did you wake up on the wrong side of the fucking bed? every single post you made in this thread you sound like a fucking whining asshat, i dont give a shit how many posts you have, you are a fucking douche.. P.S On January 01 2011 07:38 ffz wrote:
Stop with this bs aobut "one of the greatest ever in wc3". He is THE greatest... His micro and macro are both so amazing. Plus his mind is made for strategy. get a clue + Show Spoiler + are you serious? Grubby has been the most consistent WC3 player of all time. Moon has only a few top finishes in the big tourneys in the last 2 year, and the last was NGL One where he came in 1st, his last good 1st place finish was IEF in 2008, pretty much the end of his good streak. Oh man... /facepalm. Moon has been on top level since 2002 which is longer than Grubby. He's one of the most consistent players since the beginning and he's in the top 5 for winning the most amount of prize money which doesn't even include money from sponsorship deals and contracts. /facepalm TFT has only been out since 2003, and he started playing in 03, so check your dates broski. Grubby has been the best player when orc was considered the weakest race also, while night elf is the only race that was never considered weak. Grubby and Moon both started around the same time. There were RoC tournaments too.
RoC and TFT are 2 WAY different games with different unit cost, units and build all together, so no, they don't count.
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Just to clear up that ridiculous argument: Moon is the best Warcraft III player of all time. He has by far the most achievements, there is no comparison. Anyone who tells you that Grubby is better has no knowledge of WC3 at all. Grubby is however generally considered the second best.
On January 03 2011 10:32 FrostedMiniWeet wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2011 10:18 nathangonmad wrote:
I really hope Grubby is successful in Sc2. I really loved watching him in Wc3. But one things for sure, hes gonna have insane micro. The idea that WC3 players have super amazing micro is completely false as far as I have seen. I refuse to believe that anybody on the planet has micro as good as Jaedong, not to mention his macro. I didn't see anything out of the ordinary from Moon in the GSL.
Absolutely baseless opinion, nothing else.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
No more moon vs grubby please...
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On January 03 2011 10:44 Xolo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2011 10:34 Saechiis wrote:On January 03 2011 10:30 Xolo wrote:
So far just about every amazing wc3/sc1 player has been pretty disappointing in sc2 so I don't expect to see Grubby winning gsl or anything. The most amazing SC1 players are still playing BW, the less amazing ones have won all GSL's I never really followed the sc scene but I'm almost certain that Boxer and Nada were supposed to be some of the best sc1 players, and while they're obviously not doing completely horrible in sc2, they're not dominating by any mean.
They were the best SC1 players years and years ago.
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On January 03 2011 12:19 nGBeast wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2011 11:05 Lennon wrote:On January 03 2011 06:26 nGBeast wrote:On January 03 2011 05:31 Lennon wrote:On January 02 2011 14:27 nGBeast wrote:On January 02 2011 14:02 hewtrain wrote:ban inc but i dont give a shit On January 01 2011 08:09 travis wrote:
did you wake up on the wrong side of the fucking bed? every single post you made in this thread you sound like a fucking whining asshat, i dont give a shit how many posts you have, you are a fucking douche.. P.S On January 01 2011 07:38 ffz wrote:
Stop with this bs aobut "one of the greatest ever in wc3". He is THE greatest... His micro and macro are both so amazing. Plus his mind is made for strategy. get a clue + Show Spoiler + are you serious? Grubby has been the most consistent WC3 player of all time. Moon has only a few top finishes in the big tourneys in the last 2 year, and the last was NGL One where he came in 1st, his last good 1st place finish was IEF in 2008, pretty much the end of his good streak. Oh man... /facepalm. Moon has been on top level since 2002 which is longer than Grubby. He's one of the most consistent players since the beginning and he's in the top 5 for winning the most amount of prize money which doesn't even include money from sponsorship deals and contracts. /facepalm TFT has only been out since 2003, and he started playing in 03, so check your dates broski. Grubby has been the best player when orc was considered the weakest race also, while night elf is the only race that was never considered weak. Grubby and Moon both started around the same time. There were RoC tournaments too. RoC and TFT are 2 WAY different games with different unit cost, units and build all together, so no, they don't count.
Regardless of your opinion, there were RoC tournaments in which Moon was successful in.
That's similar to saying all pro gamer success during SC2: Wings of Liberty didn't count when Heart of the Swarm is released.
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first time poster but been following TeamLiquid.net since Starcraft 2 release....just wanted to say GL to Grubby, i understand the differences between WC3 and SC2 but feel someone with his talent if he wants to be a top player in both games he will find a way to do so and that the one thing this thread has proven is all eyes will be on him come February....no pressure
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On January 03 2011 10:44 Xolo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2011 10:34 Saechiis wrote:On January 03 2011 10:30 Xolo wrote:
So far just about every amazing wc3/sc1 player has been pretty disappointing in sc2 so I don't expect to see Grubby winning gsl or anything. The most amazing SC1 players are still playing BW, the less amazing ones have won all GSL's I never really followed the sc scene but I'm almost certain that Boxer and Nada were supposed to be some of the best sc1 players, and while they're obviously not doing completely horrible in sc2, they're not dominating by any mean.
Why do people make crappy posts like this?
1. Look at the right panel of this webpage and ask yourself if guys like stork, flash and jaedong currently play sc2 - not professionally.
2. Look at the 3 winners of gsl so far. All ex-bw pros - none dominant in bw.
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On January 03 2011 10:44 Xolo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2011 10:34 Saechiis wrote:On January 03 2011 10:30 Xolo wrote:
So far just about every amazing wc3/sc1 player has been pretty disappointing in sc2 so I don't expect to see Grubby winning gsl or anything. The most amazing SC1 players are still playing BW, the less amazing ones have won all GSL's I never really followed the sc scene but I'm almost certain that Boxer and Nada were supposed to be some of the best sc1 players, and while they're obviously not doing completely horrible in sc2, they're not dominating by any mean.
Boxer and Nada are historical figures as far as BW scene goes. They couldn't even qualify for OSL/MSL near the end of their sc1 careers.
If any of top BW players were to switch, they would surely dominate SC2 scene.
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On January 03 2011 12:25 Lefnui wrote:Just to clear up that ridiculous argument: Moon is the best Warcraft III player of all time. He has by far the most achievements, there is no comparison. Anyone who tells you that Grubby is better has no knowledge of WC3 at all. Grubby is however generally considered the second best. Show nested quote +On January 03 2011 10:32 FrostedMiniWeet wrote:On January 03 2011 10:18 nathangonmad wrote:
I really hope Grubby is successful in Sc2. I really loved watching him in Wc3. But one things for sure, hes gonna have insane micro. The idea that WC3 players have super amazing micro is completely false as far as I have seen. I refuse to believe that anybody on the planet has micro as good as Jaedong, not to mention his macro. I didn't see anything out of the ordinary from Moon in the GSL. Absolutely baseless opinion, nothing else.
Not really. Quite a few agree with him. Marineking for example seems to be able to dance circles around anyone when it comes to micro in SC2. With that being said I am not very impressed by WC3 players micro. Kiwikaki would be an exception to this at his level (top foreigner). I think his micro has won him quite a few games,
And I sign the comment about Jaedong, except that Bisu is even better in my opinion.
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I never really cared for Warcraft 3... hell I never even played it, but I know that Grubby coming to SC2 will be BIG. I think the more Warcraft 3 pros that convert over the better... just means more publicity and talent pool for SC2.
I'm always open to seeing more people that are eager to learn the game properly
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Grubby is a boss, hopefully he does well.
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On January 03 2011 13:28 Silver_Thor wrote:first time poster but been following TeamLiquid.net since Starcraft 2 release....just wanted to say GL to Grubby, i understand the differences between WC3 and SC2 but feel someone with his talent if he wants to be a top player in both games he will find a way to do so and that the one thing this thread has proven is all eyes will be on him come February....no pressure
haha true, :-) Same like in wc3 - the hype around his person already swept over to sc2.
once again i hope he does well
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On January 03 2011 18:15 Squeegy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2011 12:25 Lefnui wrote:Just to clear up that ridiculous argument: Moon is the best Warcraft III player of all time. He has by far the most achievements, there is no comparison. Anyone who tells you that Grubby is better has no knowledge of WC3 at all. Grubby is however generally considered the second best. On January 03 2011 10:32 FrostedMiniWeet wrote:On January 03 2011 10:18 nathangonmad wrote:
I really hope Grubby is successful in Sc2. I really loved watching him in Wc3. But one things for sure, hes gonna have insane micro. The idea that WC3 players have super amazing micro is completely false as far as I have seen. I refuse to believe that anybody on the planet has micro as good as Jaedong, not to mention his macro. I didn't see anything out of the ordinary from Moon in the GSL. Absolutely baseless opinion, nothing else. Not really. Quite a few agree with him. Marineking for example seems to be able to dance circles around anyone when it comes to micro in SC2. With that being said I am not very impressed by WC3 players micro. Kiwikaki would be an exception to this at his level (top foreigner). I think his micro has won him quite a few games, And I sign the comment about Jaedong, except that Bisu is even better in my opinion.
If you think Kiwikaki's micro is good, who was a subpar WC3 player (no insult to him, but he wasn't a top player) then how can you not be impressed with the best of the best, like Grubby, Moon, FoV ect. There micro is 100x better then Kiwis.
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On January 04 2011 08:25 nGBeast wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2011 18:15 Squeegy wrote:On January 03 2011 12:25 Lefnui wrote:Just to clear up that ridiculous argument: Moon is the best Warcraft III player of all time. He has by far the most achievements, there is no comparison. Anyone who tells you that Grubby is better has no knowledge of WC3 at all. Grubby is however generally considered the second best. On January 03 2011 10:32 FrostedMiniWeet wrote:On January 03 2011 10:18 nathangonmad wrote:
I really hope Grubby is successful in Sc2. I really loved watching him in Wc3. But one things for sure, hes gonna have insane micro. The idea that WC3 players have super amazing micro is completely false as far as I have seen. I refuse to believe that anybody on the planet has micro as good as Jaedong, not to mention his macro. I didn't see anything out of the ordinary from Moon in the GSL. Absolutely baseless opinion, nothing else. Not really. Quite a few agree with him. Marineking for example seems to be able to dance circles around anyone when it comes to micro in SC2. With that being said I am not very impressed by WC3 players micro. Kiwikaki would be an exception to this at his level (top foreigner). I think his micro has won him quite a few games, And I sign the comment about Jaedong, except that Bisu is even better in my opinion. If you think Kiwikaki's micro is good, who was a subpar WC3 player (no insult to him, but he wasn't a top player) then how can you not be impressed with the best of the best, like Grubby, Moon, FoV ect. There micro is 100x better then Kiwis.
I'm talking about micro in SC2. I don't follow WC3 at all.
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Micro is a lot different in sc2 than in bw, as in the unit movements in sc2 are a lot more fluid (for example the Terran Bio-Balls "stickyness" to eachother) so a lot of the little micro things that people do can be lost on spectators, but the big flashy splits of Foxer are noticed by all. Not taking anything away from Marineking, I think he IS the best microer currently in sc2, but a lot more little things that players do goes unnoticed by spectators.
Also I think it was the opinion of most that NaDa had the best overall micro of BW, or at least had other skills to back it up not like say a player like Iris. And I know that's just an opinion but you can look back at all the old BW threads and the general opinion was NaDa at the top with Jaedong and others right up there with him. NaDa definitely had the highest average APM though.
That being said, NaDa in the opinion of most is NOT the best micro'er of sc2 so,
Amazing Micro in one game ≠ Amazing Micro in another. WC3 is more micro orientated yes, but that doesn't mean that directly correlates into another game, but in some cases it could.
I think a WC3 player with exceptionally good micro for that game should rank high among sc2 players, but saying ALL WC3 players have high micro is stupid because that would be including WC3 players that had poor micro compared to other WC3 players.
I think that the thought that WC3 players have better micro comes from the fact that WC3 was more focused on individual unit control, rather than the economy based Starcraft, so when WC3 players switched over the mindset of using all your units to their fullest might carry over.
Also I <3 Grubby 
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On January 04 2011 08:30 Squeegy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2011 08:25 nGBeast wrote:On January 03 2011 18:15 Squeegy wrote:On January 03 2011 12:25 Lefnui wrote:Just to clear up that ridiculous argument: Moon is the best Warcraft III player of all time. He has by far the most achievements, there is no comparison. Anyone who tells you that Grubby is better has no knowledge of WC3 at all. Grubby is however generally considered the second best. On January 03 2011 10:32 FrostedMiniWeet wrote:On January 03 2011 10:18 nathangonmad wrote:
I really hope Grubby is successful in Sc2. I really loved watching him in Wc3. But one things for sure, hes gonna have insane micro. The idea that WC3 players have super amazing micro is completely false as far as I have seen. I refuse to believe that anybody on the planet has micro as good as Jaedong, not to mention his macro. I didn't see anything out of the ordinary from Moon in the GSL. Absolutely baseless opinion, nothing else. Not really. Quite a few agree with him. Marineking for example seems to be able to dance circles around anyone when it comes to micro in SC2. With that being said I am not very impressed by WC3 players micro. Kiwikaki would be an exception to this at his level (top foreigner). I think his micro has won him quite a few games, And I sign the comment about Jaedong, except that Bisu is even better in my opinion. If you think Kiwikaki's micro is good, who was a subpar WC3 player (no insult to him, but he wasn't a top player) then how can you not be impressed with the best of the best, like Grubby, Moon, FoV ect. There micro is 100x better then Kiwis. I'm talking about micro in SC2. I don't follow WC3 at all.
Oh my bad :<
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On January 04 2011 08:25 nGBeast wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2011 18:15 Squeegy wrote:On January 03 2011 12:25 Lefnui wrote:Just to clear up that ridiculous argument: Moon is the best Warcraft III player of all time. He has by far the most achievements, there is no comparison. Anyone who tells you that Grubby is better has no knowledge of WC3 at all. Grubby is however generally considered the second best. On January 03 2011 10:32 FrostedMiniWeet wrote:On January 03 2011 10:18 nathangonmad wrote:
I really hope Grubby is successful in Sc2. I really loved watching him in Wc3. But one things for sure, hes gonna have insane micro. The idea that WC3 players have super amazing micro is completely false as far as I have seen. I refuse to believe that anybody on the planet has micro as good as Jaedong, not to mention his macro. I didn't see anything out of the ordinary from Moon in the GSL. Absolutely baseless opinion, nothing else. Not really. Quite a few agree with him. Marineking for example seems to be able to dance circles around anyone when it comes to micro in SC2. With that being said I am not very impressed by WC3 players micro. Kiwikaki would be an exception to this at his level (top foreigner). I think his micro has won him quite a few games, And I sign the comment about Jaedong, except that Bisu is even better in my opinion. If you think Kiwikaki's micro is good, who was a subpar WC3 player (no insult to him, but he wasn't a top player) then how can you not be impressed with the best of the best, like Grubby, Moon, FoV ect. There micro is 100x better then Kiwis.
I'm getting tired of hearing about WC3 players and their micro. It's just nothing special, WC3 is the easier game and they are not even close to the level of top SC:BW players, they're probably not even close to the SC:BW B-teamers that are currently at the top in SC2 right now like Nestea, Marineking, MVP and MC. There's a reason why SC:BW players have like three or four times the APM of top WC3 players, and it's not just macro.
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On January 04 2011 08:52 pezit wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2011 08:25 nGBeast wrote:On January 03 2011 18:15 Squeegy wrote:On January 03 2011 12:25 Lefnui wrote:Just to clear up that ridiculous argument: Moon is the best Warcraft III player of all time. He has by far the most achievements, there is no comparison. Anyone who tells you that Grubby is better has no knowledge of WC3 at all. Grubby is however generally considered the second best. On January 03 2011 10:32 FrostedMiniWeet wrote:On January 03 2011 10:18 nathangonmad wrote:
I really hope Grubby is successful in Sc2. I really loved watching him in Wc3. But one things for sure, hes gonna have insane micro. The idea that WC3 players have super amazing micro is completely false as far as I have seen. I refuse to believe that anybody on the planet has micro as good as Jaedong, not to mention his macro. I didn't see anything out of the ordinary from Moon in the GSL. Absolutely baseless opinion, nothing else. Not really. Quite a few agree with him. Marineking for example seems to be able to dance circles around anyone when it comes to micro in SC2. With that being said I am not very impressed by WC3 players micro. Kiwikaki would be an exception to this at his level (top foreigner). I think his micro has won him quite a few games, And I sign the comment about Jaedong, except that Bisu is even better in my opinion. If you think Kiwikaki's micro is good, who was a subpar WC3 player (no insult to him, but he wasn't a top player) then how can you not be impressed with the best of the best, like Grubby, Moon, FoV ect. There micro is 100x better then Kiwis. I'm getting tired of hearing about WC3 players and their micro. It's just nothing special, WC3 is the easier game and they are not even close to the level of top SC:BW players, they're probably not even close to the SC:BW B-teamers that are currently at the top in SC2 right now like Nestea, Marineking, MVP and MC. There's a reason why SC:BW players have like three or four times the APM of top WC3 players, and it's not just macro.
Trying to compare BW and WC3 is like comparing apples to oranges, or console gamers to PC gamers, with alot of opinion thrown in there. Let not derail this thread any further. I don't want to hear about your biased opinion, and neither do a lot of people.
Edit: The 10 year old game is designed for higher APM, since its void of auto mining ect, its not like APM = Skill.
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High effective APM = Skill. If you think anything else you're just delusional. And high effective APM is pretty much the only factor in micro, or do you think anyone would have trouble microing on slowest?
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On January 04 2011 08:52 pezit wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2011 08:25 nGBeast wrote:On January 03 2011 18:15 Squeegy wrote:On January 03 2011 12:25 Lefnui wrote:Just to clear up that ridiculous argument: Moon is the best Warcraft III player of all time. He has by far the most achievements, there is no comparison. Anyone who tells you that Grubby is better has no knowledge of WC3 at all. Grubby is however generally considered the second best. On January 03 2011 10:32 FrostedMiniWeet wrote:On January 03 2011 10:18 nathangonmad wrote:
I really hope Grubby is successful in Sc2. I really loved watching him in Wc3. But one things for sure, hes gonna have insane micro. The idea that WC3 players have super amazing micro is completely false as far as I have seen. I refuse to believe that anybody on the planet has micro as good as Jaedong, not to mention his macro. I didn't see anything out of the ordinary from Moon in the GSL. Absolutely baseless opinion, nothing else. Not really. Quite a few agree with him. Marineking for example seems to be able to dance circles around anyone when it comes to micro in SC2. With that being said I am not very impressed by WC3 players micro. Kiwikaki would be an exception to this at his level (top foreigner). I think his micro has won him quite a few games, And I sign the comment about Jaedong, except that Bisu is even better in my opinion. If you think Kiwikaki's micro is good, who was a subpar WC3 player (no insult to him, but he wasn't a top player) then how can you not be impressed with the best of the best, like Grubby, Moon, FoV ect. There micro is 100x better then Kiwis. I'm getting tired of hearing about WC3 players and their micro. It's just nothing special, WC3 is the easier game and they are not even close to the level of top SC:BW players, they're probably not even close to the SC:BW B-teamers that are currently at the top in SC2 right now like Nestea, Marineking, MVP and MC. There's a reason why SC:BW players have like three or four times the APM of top WC3 players, and it's not just macro.
MVP was NOT a B-teamer lol, shows how much you know, and 3 to 4 times as much APM? lolexxageration
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On January 04 2011 08:52 pezit wrote:
I'm getting tired of hearing about WC3 players and their micro. It's just nothing special, WC3 is the easier game and they are not even close to the level of top SC:BW players, they're probably not even close to the SC:BW B-teamers that are currently at the top in SC2 right now like Nestea, Marineking, MVP and MC. There's a reason why SC:BW players have like three or four times the APM of top WC3 players, and it's not just macro.
There should be a rule on the internet that you have to post your account information when you call out entire player bases on their gaming ability, just so we know how hard to laugh when the dodge occurs.
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On January 04 2011 08:52 pezit wrote:
I'm getting tired of hearing about WC3 players and their micro. It's just nothing special, WC3 is the easier game and they are not even close to the level of top SC:BW players, they're probably not even close to the SC:BW B-teamers that are currently at the top in SC2 right now like Nestea, Marineking, MVP and MC. There's a reason why SC:BW players have like three or four times the APM of top WC3 players, and it's not just macro.
Did you follow the WC3 scene at all? Have you watched a replay since 2006? If you don't think their micro is simply amazing, you sir are a damned fool.
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On January 04 2011 08:52 pezit wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2011 08:25 nGBeast wrote:On January 03 2011 18:15 Squeegy wrote:On January 03 2011 12:25 Lefnui wrote:Just to clear up that ridiculous argument: Moon is the best Warcraft III player of all time. He has by far the most achievements, there is no comparison. Anyone who tells you that Grubby is better has no knowledge of WC3 at all. Grubby is however generally considered the second best. On January 03 2011 10:32 FrostedMiniWeet wrote:On January 03 2011 10:18 nathangonmad wrote:
I really hope Grubby is successful in Sc2. I really loved watching him in Wc3. But one things for sure, hes gonna have insane micro. The idea that WC3 players have super amazing micro is completely false as far as I have seen. I refuse to believe that anybody on the planet has micro as good as Jaedong, not to mention his macro. I didn't see anything out of the ordinary from Moon in the GSL. Absolutely baseless opinion, nothing else. Not really. Quite a few agree with him. Marineking for example seems to be able to dance circles around anyone when it comes to micro in SC2. With that being said I am not very impressed by WC3 players micro. Kiwikaki would be an exception to this at his level (top foreigner). I think his micro has won him quite a few games, And I sign the comment about Jaedong, except that Bisu is even better in my opinion. If you think Kiwikaki's micro is good, who was a subpar WC3 player (no insult to him, but he wasn't a top player) then how can you not be impressed with the best of the best, like Grubby, Moon, FoV ect. There micro is 100x better then Kiwis. I'm getting tired of hearing about WC3 players and their micro. It's just nothing special, WC3 is the easier game and they are not even close to the level of top SC:BW players, they're probably not even close to the SC:BW B-teamers that are currently at the top in SC2 right now like Nestea, Marineking, MVP and MC. There's a reason why SC:BW players have like three or four times the APM of top WC3 players, and it's not just macro.
MVP was a B-Teamer? wut??! that is news to me -_-;; Shows how much you know.
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On January 04 2011 15:17 IPA wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2011 08:52 pezit wrote:
I'm getting tired of hearing about WC3 players and their micro. It's just nothing special, WC3 is the easier game and they are not even close to the level of top SC:BW players, they're probably not even close to the SC:BW B-teamers that are currently at the top in SC2 right now like Nestea, Marineking, MVP and MC. There's a reason why SC:BW players have like three or four times the APM of top WC3 players, and it's not just macro.
Did you follow the WC3 scene at all? Have you watched a replay since 2006? If you don't think their micro is simply amazing, you sir are a damned fool.
Best not turn this into a WC3 vs BW thread. Although, it's probably too late.
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I am excited to say the least - Grubby is without a doubt one of the most talented RTS players i've ever watched play. With more room for creativity in SC2 compared to WC3, I have a good feeling Grubby is going to dominate.
You read it right here! DOMINATE!
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On January 04 2011 08:52 pezit wrote:I'm getting tired of hearing about WC3 players and their micro. It's just nothing special, WC3 is the easier game and they are not even close to the level of top SC:BW players, they're probably not even close to the SC:BW B-teamers that are currently at the top in SC2 right now like Nestea, Marineking, MVP and MC. There's a reason why SC:BW players have like three or four times the APM of top WC3 players, and it's not just macro.
are you serious?
honestly go watch a recent wc3 replay from grubby. the micro is so insane.
also no, BW is not the easier game. you cant say one game is either than the other.
the Wemadefox IH stats were released for 09, and moon (the wc3 pro) had a 40% win rate. In BW. not wc3, BW. he was competing with the WMF sc1 players, while being a boss at wc3.
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On January 04 2011 15:52 L3g3nd_ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2011 08:52 pezit wrote:I'm getting tired of hearing about WC3 players and their micro. It's just nothing special, WC3 is the easier game and they are not even close to the level of top SC:BW players, they're probably not even close to the SC:BW B-teamers that are currently at the top in SC2 right now like Nestea, Marineking, MVP and MC. There's a reason why SC:BW players have like three or four times the APM of top WC3 players, and it's not just macro.
are you serious? honestly go watch a recent wc3 replay from grubby. the micro is so insane. also no, BW is not the easier game. you cant say one game is either than the other. the Wemadefox IH stats were released for 09, and moon (the wc3 pro) had a 40% win rate. In BW. not wc3, BW. he was competing with the WMF sc1 players, while being a boss at wc3.
You realise Wemadefox has a BW player called Moon who isn't the same as the WC3 Moon on the same team right? There are two Moons on wemadefox.
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On January 04 2011 08:25 nGBeast wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2011 18:15 Squeegy wrote:On January 03 2011 12:25 Lefnui wrote:Just to clear up that ridiculous argument: Moon is the best Warcraft III player of all time. He has by far the most achievements, there is no comparison. Anyone who tells you that Grubby is better has no knowledge of WC3 at all. Grubby is however generally considered the second best. On January 03 2011 10:32 FrostedMiniWeet wrote:On January 03 2011 10:18 nathangonmad wrote:
I really hope Grubby is successful in Sc2. I really loved watching him in Wc3. But one things for sure, hes gonna have insane micro. The idea that WC3 players have super amazing micro is completely false as far as I have seen. I refuse to believe that anybody on the planet has micro as good as Jaedong, not to mention his macro. I didn't see anything out of the ordinary from Moon in the GSL. Absolutely baseless opinion, nothing else. Not really. Quite a few agree with him. Marineking for example seems to be able to dance circles around anyone when it comes to micro in SC2. With that being said I am not very impressed by WC3 players micro. Kiwikaki would be an exception to this at his level (top foreigner). I think his micro has won him quite a few games, And I sign the comment about Jaedong, except that Bisu is even better in my opinion. If you think Kiwikaki's micro is good, who was a subpar WC3 player (no insult to him, but he wasn't a top player) then how can you not be impressed with the best of the best, like Grubby, Moon, FoV ect. There micro is 100x better then Kiwis.
Uh kiwi wasn't a subpar war3 player. To imply that there is any major skill discrepancy between the top level warcraft 3 players is just far-fetched. The only thing I'll say is there were about 7 top level NA war3 players that have already or could trade games with the 'top' korean/chinese/european players.
I'm not going to name drop but almost all of the players that most of the common community considered the 'top' NA players for war3 were actually not. publicity/popularity != good.
Every purely NA based war3 team to this day has been a miserable failure (I can tell you this from experience, as anyone at the top of the war3 scene was on a new team every month it seemed like.) Getting everyone that needed to be on one team to make a footprint was next to impossible, so I can see how perceptions can be misguided from somebody that didn't really have a true following of war3.
Also I'll refrain from placing a token on Moon vs Grubby since, NE vs Orc was heavily NE favored for the majority of the games release (dryads only level 2 units and not 3 for xp, no CD on hero staff trading). The fact that Grubby was trading games and even beating moon in some matches during all of this is pretty impressive.
Just wanted to shed some light,
to be more on topic with the OP, war3 isn't a game that requires near the hours of practice once you reach a certain level. If anything sc2 can potentially only improve war3 play, just higher alertness.
also might as well, war3 and sc2 micro are not the same. the only thing that can be said as a whole is that war3 players have better unit control/management/'care' of their units.
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Seeing this new thread is already 12 pages, and the old one was pretty big as well, I have to say a lot of people might be disappointed (and still, ready to find excuses) if Grubby fails.
Something tells me, he will devote more than half of his time for SC2. After all, he can just win WC3 tourneys without practicing so much, and even if he has to face Koreans, the likes of Moon and Lyn are themselves playing SC2. So yeah, please, do not prepare excuses if he fails.
And just a hint, there is no SINGLE thing that tells me why he should be more than an average SC2 player. This is just a side-note.
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would be great if he can be great hybrid
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On January 04 2011 08:44 Kazzabiss wrote:
Also I think it was the opinion of most that NaDa had the best overall micro of BW, or at least had other skills to back it up not like say a player like Iris. And I know that's just an opinion but you can look back at all the old BW threads and the general opinion was NaDa at the top with Jaedong and others right up there with him. NaDa definitely had the highest average APM though.
That being said, NaDa in the opinion of most is NOT the best micro'er of sc2 so,
Amazing Micro in one game ≠ Amazing Micro in another. WC3 is more micro orientated yes, but that doesn't mean that directly correlates into another game, but in some cases it could.
Uhh... what? How did no one stop to mention that this sentence is just completely wrong. I don't mean to insult you, but the "facts" you have are just dead wrong. Here, lets just get a basic source that's usually correct (here it is) and is easy to read, liquipedia.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/NaDa
"He is known for his excellent macromanagement, mechanics, and his innovative strategies leading to his nickname, 'Genius Terran.'"
Nada was a macro player, known for just having more units than everyone else and steamrolling them. That doesn't mean he couldn't micro, but he was not the best micro player at all and in fact was not known for microing.
Now if you look at old BW threads, yes, Nada was on the top. However, you must be looking pretty far back because the last starleague he qualified for was back in 2007. Which means he wasn't in the group of top players for the last 3-4 years. Yes, his accomplishments are talked about with Jaedong because he still has won the most awards, but remember that these were won back in 2007. Nada was still playing for 3 years after that but was unable to qualify for individual leagues after that and his proleague experience was pretty lackluster.
So, by 2010, Nada was a lackluster BW player who was known 3 years ago as the greatest macro player and started a macro revolution. This in no way shows that he was an amazing micro player that can be compared to as one of the best in BW. So because the entire basis of that paragraph is just not right, the conclusion cannot be inferred from the premises. In fact you can almost say he's not amazing at micro in either games, but by watching his GSL games, he sure had solid macro and walked over people with more units. Maybe there is a correlation? Who knows.
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On January 04 2011 19:22 rackdude wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2011 08:44 Kazzabiss wrote:
Also I think it was the opinion of most that NaDa had the best overall micro of BW, or at least had other skills to back it up not like say a player like Iris. And I know that's just an opinion but you can look back at all the old BW threads and the general opinion was NaDa at the top with Jaedong and others right up there with him. NaDa definitely had the highest average APM though.
That being said, NaDa in the opinion of most is NOT the best micro'er of sc2 so,
Amazing Micro in one game ≠ Amazing Micro in another. WC3 is more micro orientated yes, but that doesn't mean that directly correlates into another game, but in some cases it could.
Uhh... what? How did no one stop to mention that this sentence is just completely wrong. I don't mean to insult you, but the "facts" you have are just dead wrong. Here, lets just get a basic source that's usually correct (here it is) and is easy to read, liquipedia. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/NaDa"He is known for his excellent macromanagement, mechanics, and his innovative strategies leading to his nickname, 'Genius Terran.'" Nada was a macro player, known for just having more units than everyone else and steamrolling them. That doesn't mean he couldn't micro, but he was not the best micro player at all and in fact was not known for microing. Now if you look at old BW threads, yes, Nada was on the top. However, you must be looking pretty far back because the last starleague he qualified for was back in 2007. Which means he wasn't in the group of top players for the last 3-4 years. Yes, his accomplishments are talked about with Jaedong because he still has won the most awards, but remember that these were won back in 2007. Nada was still playing for 3 years after that but was unable to qualify for individual leagues after that and his proleague experience was pretty lackluster. So, by 2010, Nada was a lackluster BW player who was known 3 years ago as the greatest macro player and started a macro revolution. This in no way shows that he was an amazing micro player that can be compared to as one of the best in BW. So because the entire basis of that paragraph is just not right, the conclusion cannot be inferred from the premises. In fact you can almost say he's not amazing at micro in either games, but by watching his GSL games, he sure had solid macro and walked over people with more units. Maybe there is a correlation? Who knows.
Um, NaDa was generally known for his multitask, being able to both Macro and Micro at the same time. For example, NaDa's signature Tornado Terran style was based around micro-harass with vultures while at the same time macroing up for a massive tank push. Iloveoov was the one known for putting macro above micro and starting the real macro revolution.
Also, NaDa not qualifying for an individual league since 2007? Hello? Nada's most recent accomplishment was making it to the Lost Saga MSL quarterfinals in march 2009, barely losing 2-3 to one of the top PvT players at the time. Otherwise you're mostly correct though...
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On January 04 2011 15:52 L3g3nd_ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2011 08:52 pezit wrote:I'm getting tired of hearing about WC3 players and their micro. It's just nothing special, WC3 is the easier game and they are not even close to the level of top SC:BW players, they're probably not even close to the SC:BW B-teamers that are currently at the top in SC2 right now like Nestea, Marineking, MVP and MC. There's a reason why SC:BW players have like three or four times the APM of top WC3 players, and it's not just macro.
are you serious? honestly go watch a recent wc3 replay from grubby. the micro is so insane. also no, BW is not the easier game. you cant say one game is either than the other. the Wemadefox IH stats were released for 09, and moon (the wc3 pro) had a 40% win rate. In BW. not wc3, BW. he was competing with the WMF sc1 players, while being a boss at wc3.
Only that it was 24% and not 40%. He was definitely not competing with them but getting dominated while winning a game here and there. Don't get me wrong, it is still impressive as he did not play BW that much.
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On January 04 2011 16:17 Xxavi wrote:
And just a hint, there is no SINGLE thing that tells me why he should be more than an average SC2 player. This is just a side-note.
Well the fact that he was one of the best war3 players of all time is a SINGLE thing that tells you why he should be more than an average SC2 player.
Not saying he will be, but between a random guy picking up SC2 and a top war3 player picking up SC2, I'll vote on the war3 pro becoming better than your average pro.
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On January 04 2011 08:52 pezit wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2011 08:25 nGBeast wrote:On January 03 2011 18:15 Squeegy wrote:On January 03 2011 12:25 Lefnui wrote:Just to clear up that ridiculous argument: Moon is the best Warcraft III player of all time. He has by far the most achievements, there is no comparison. Anyone who tells you that Grubby is better has no knowledge of WC3 at all. Grubby is however generally considered the second best. On January 03 2011 10:32 FrostedMiniWeet wrote:On January 03 2011 10:18 nathangonmad wrote:
I really hope Grubby is successful in Sc2. I really loved watching him in Wc3. But one things for sure, hes gonna have insane micro. The idea that WC3 players have super amazing micro is completely false as far as I have seen. I refuse to believe that anybody on the planet has micro as good as Jaedong, not to mention his macro. I didn't see anything out of the ordinary from Moon in the GSL. Absolutely baseless opinion, nothing else. Not really. Quite a few agree with him. Marineking for example seems to be able to dance circles around anyone when it comes to micro in SC2. With that being said I am not very impressed by WC3 players micro. Kiwikaki would be an exception to this at his level (top foreigner). I think his micro has won him quite a few games, And I sign the comment about Jaedong, except that Bisu is even better in my opinion. If you think Kiwikaki's micro is good, who was a subpar WC3 player (no insult to him, but he wasn't a top player) then how can you not be impressed with the best of the best, like Grubby, Moon, FoV ect. There micro is 100x better then Kiwis. I'm getting tired of hearing about WC3 players and their micro. It's just nothing special, WC3 is the easier game and they are not even close to the level of top SC:BW players, they're probably not even close to the SC:BW B-teamers that are currently at the top in SC2 right now like Nestea, Marineking, MVP and MC. There's a reason why SC:BW players have like three or four times the APM of top WC3 players, and it's not just macro.
Your entire post is nonsense but the portion in bold is blatantly wrong. It's a shame that so many people on this forum feel the need to degrade a game that they know absolutely nothing about. The APM of BW pros was not "three or four times" that of WC3 pros. To even say it was twice as much would be an exaggeration. 200-250 APM was typical of the highest level WC3 players. In fact, many Korean players had APMs way above that. A very strong Human player named Rainbow would routinely have 380+ APM.
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On January 03 2011 15:05 scion wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2011 10:44 Xolo wrote:On January 03 2011 10:34 Saechiis wrote:On January 03 2011 10:30 Xolo wrote:
So far just about every amazing wc3/sc1 player has been pretty disappointing in sc2 so I don't expect to see Grubby winning gsl or anything. The most amazing SC1 players are still playing BW, the less amazing ones have won all GSL's I never really followed the sc scene but I'm almost certain that Boxer and Nada were supposed to be some of the best sc1 players, and while they're obviously not doing completely horrible in sc2, they're not dominating by any mean. Boxer and Nada are historical figures as far as BW scene goes. They couldn't even qualify for OSL/MSL near the end of their sc1 careers.
If any of top BW players were to switch, they would surely dominate SC2 scene.
I don't agree with this, since if this were true then the more recent of the former BW progamers now active in SC2 would be the dominant players. We would be talking about how JulyZerg is so good and not even considering the likes of MC, Fruitdealer and Nestea as top-calibre players.
However with the current crop of ladder maps encouraging 1-2 base builds from Protoss and Terran, the improved AI of SC2, the skillcap of SC2 is currently lower than BW. So if players like Flash and Jaedong were to transfer to SC2 now, they wouldn't dominate because SC2 simply isn't complex enough.
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On January 04 2011 16:00 tangwhat wrote:
You realise Wemadefox has a BW player called Moon who isn't the same as the WC3 Moon on the same team right? There are two Moons on wemadefox.
I only see one Moon on their roster across all of WMF's teams.
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On January 04 2011 16:00 tangwhat wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2011 15:52 L3g3nd_ wrote:On January 04 2011 08:52 pezit wrote:I'm getting tired of hearing about WC3 players and their micro. It's just nothing special, WC3 is the easier game and they are not even close to the level of top SC:BW players, they're probably not even close to the SC:BW B-teamers that are currently at the top in SC2 right now like Nestea, Marineking, MVP and MC. There's a reason why SC:BW players have like three or four times the APM of top WC3 players, and it's not just macro.
are you serious? honestly go watch a recent wc3 replay from grubby. the micro is so insane. also no, BW is not the easier game. you cant say one game is either than the other. the Wemadefox IH stats were released for 09, and moon (the wc3 pro) had a 40% win rate. In BW. not wc3, BW. he was competing with the WMF sc1 players, while being a boss at wc3. You realise Wemadefox has a BW player called Moon who isn't the same as the WC3 Moon on the same team right? There are two Moons on wemadefox.
This is true, but WC3 Moon does occasionally play BW matches against FOX players. Pure said he's good enough that he can take games off their B team.
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On January 04 2011 19:00 Redunzl wrote:
ToD will crush him...
ToD's account is YoanM on the EU server and it isn't impressive. He's obviously playing for fun though.
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Australia8532 Posts
On January 05 2011 06:00 bruteMax wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2011 15:05 scion wrote:On January 03 2011 10:44 Xolo wrote:On January 03 2011 10:34 Saechiis wrote:On January 03 2011 10:30 Xolo wrote:
So far just about every amazing wc3/sc1 player has been pretty disappointing in sc2 so I don't expect to see Grubby winning gsl or anything. The most amazing SC1 players are still playing BW, the less amazing ones have won all GSL's I never really followed the sc scene but I'm almost certain that Boxer and Nada were supposed to be some of the best sc1 players, and while they're obviously not doing completely horrible in sc2, they're not dominating by any mean. Boxer and Nada are historical figures as far as BW scene goes. They couldn't even qualify for OSL/MSL near the end of their sc1 careers.
If any of top BW players were to switch, they would surely dominate SC2 scene. I don't agree with this, since if this were true then the more recent of the former BW progamers now active in SC2 would be the dominant players. We would be talking about how JulyZerg is so good and not even considering the likes of MC, Fruitdealer and Nestea as top-calibre players. However with the current crop of ladder maps encouraging 1-2 base builds from Protoss and Terran, the improved AI of SC2, the skillcap of SC2 is currently lower than BW. So if players like Flash and Jaedong were to transfer to SC2 now, they wouldn't dominate because SC2 simply isn't complex enough.
You realise TSL_Rain is the only non-BW progamer to make a GSL final.. Once JulyZerg figures out the new gameplay i am sure he will be a dominant force. MC (iron), Fruitdealer (Cool) and Nestea (ZergBong) are all BW Progamers that weren't "nobodies" (except for maybe Nestea) .. If a flash or jaedong were to transfer i guarantee you they would be near the top; maybe not winning every competition but definately a dominant force in the game..
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On January 05 2011 06:00 bruteMax wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2011 15:05 scion wrote:On January 03 2011 10:44 Xolo wrote:On January 03 2011 10:34 Saechiis wrote:On January 03 2011 10:30 Xolo wrote:
So far just about every amazing wc3/sc1 player has been pretty disappointing in sc2 so I don't expect to see Grubby winning gsl or anything. The most amazing SC1 players are still playing BW, the less amazing ones have won all GSL's I never really followed the sc scene but I'm almost certain that Boxer and Nada were supposed to be some of the best sc1 players, and while they're obviously not doing completely horrible in sc2, they're not dominating by any mean. Boxer and Nada are historical figures as far as BW scene goes. They couldn't even qualify for OSL/MSL near the end of their sc1 careers.
If any of top BW players were to switch, they would surely dominate SC2 scene. I don't agree with this, since if this were true then the more recent of the former BW progamers now active in SC2 would be the dominant players. We would be talking about how JulyZerg is so good and not even considering the likes of MC, Fruitdealer and Nestea as top-calibre players. However with the current crop of ladder maps encouraging 1-2 base builds from Protoss and Terran, the improved AI of SC2, the skillcap of SC2 is currently lower than BW. So if players like Flash and Jaedong were to transfer to SC2 now, they wouldn't dominate because SC2 simply isn't complex enough.
No it would more be because neither of them know how to play the game yet.
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The weird thing is im pretty sure if we gave flash or jaedong the game for 48 hours .. Maybe with a Maka or a Nestea behind them teaching them the basics of each MU i have NO fucking doubt they would be as good as 99.9% of all players in just that time peroid.
I guess that 0.1% is whats most important tho.
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Perhaps the best thing about the GSL is that first prize is around 80k. Every 1-2 months, yes? This tells me, quite clearly, that Flash, Jaedong, etc. (assuming they're legally allowed to compete; they are, right?) themselves don't think they can make the switch to sc2 without a lot of difficulty.
I suppose it wouldn't be all that surprising, though. The top sc1 players started well after "most" thinking on the game had already been developed; perhaps their real strengths are in finding very subtle ways to produce/macro/micro slightly better than the competition? On the other hand, Boxer's success early in sc1 is "consistent" with his success in sc2 (even despite being 30 years old!).
To be honest, I'm surprised the top sc1 players haven't stepped up to sc2, if for no other reason than to prove to themselves and/or others that their abilities are "universal." But again, perhaps the explanation is that the current top sc1 players thrive in games that are very well developed.
In any case, whether due to money, love of competition, or just pride, the incentives are there for anyone capable to compete in sc2 (excepting legal constraints).
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Gosh, you are all so wrong, Grubby, if he so wished can easily be one of the top players. Next to be known for insane micro he was rather the king of strategy. How often did he play with his back to the wall and just purely outsmarted his opponent. These are skills that you rarely observe on SC2 players. Sure, the game is not designed for this but I still believe that Grubby's skills are unique. And I'm by no means a Grubby fan-boy.
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On January 13 2011 20:40 Charlemagne wrote:
Perhaps the best thing about the GSL is that first prize is around 80k. Every 1-2 months, yes? This tells me, quite clearly, that Flash, Jaedong, etc. (assuming they're legally allowed to compete; they are, right?) themselves don't think they can make the switch to sc2 without a lot of difficulty.
I suppose it wouldn't be all that surprising, though. The top sc1 players started well after "most" thinking on the game had already been developed; perhaps their real strengths are in finding very subtle ways to produce/macro/micro slightly better than the competition? On the other hand, Boxer's success early in sc1 is "consistent" with his success in sc2 (even despite being 30 years old!).
To be honest, I'm surprised the top sc1 players haven't stepped up to sc2, if for no other reason than to prove to themselves and/or others that their abilities are "universal." But again, perhaps the explanation is that the current top sc1 players thrive in games that are very well developed.
In any case, whether due to money, love of competition, or just pride, the incentives are there for anyone capable to compete in sc2 (excepting legal constraints).
I'm pretty sure if people like zergbong and iron can dominate in SC2, Flash and Jaedong would mop the floor if they ever decided to switch. It's not skill holding them back, there are a lot of other factors (contracts, salary, etc).
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Not hating on WC3 players but I haven't seen any of kind of supposedly amazing micro from them either. Moon should have better micro than Grubby and he hasn't shown any godlike control so far in SC2.
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On January 13 2011 20:54 JustQuitWarcraftIII wrote:
Not hating on WC3 players but I haven't seen any of kind of supposedly amazing micro from them either. Moon should have better micro than Grubby and he hasn't shown any godlike control so far in SC2.
Did u see checkprime vs Boxer in last GSL or something? Then watch it and delete your post.....
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Yeah I did but it wasn't as amazing as MarineKing's micro even though by logic ex-WC3 players should be outmicro'ing all ex-BW players consistently.
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On January 13 2011 20:40 Charlemagne wrote:
To be honest, I'm surprised the top sc1 players haven't stepped up to sc2, if for no other reason than to prove to themselves and/or others that their abilities are "universal." But again, perhaps the explanation is that the current top sc1 players thrive in games that are very well developed.
In any case, whether due to money, love of competition, or just pride, the incentives are there for anyone capable to compete in sc2 (excepting legal constraints).
Yeah, well, if you are a top sc1 player, why not stay in sc1 and keep dominating? Why switch to sc2 which is a different game? Honestly, if you have the kind of character to reach the top of BW mountain, then I doubt you're a type of person who follows money. Love of competition? They may love to compete in BW, but not sc2. (ex: I love to compete in chess, but I careless about golf) Plus, as of right now, I'm sure there is way more competition in top BW than sc2. Pride? If you are a top BW player, you've done something very few people can achieve and nobody can take that away. (ex: Usain Bolt is the best sprinter in the world, and I bet he careless about the fact that he's not the best marathon runner.) Once again, I use these examples, because sc2 is a different game from BW.
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On January 13 2011 20:58 JustQuitWarcraftIII wrote:
Yeah I did but it wasn't as amazing as MarineKing's micro even though by logic ex-WC3 players should be outmicro'ing all ex-BW players consistently.
No, that's not logical at all. Micro in WC3 was extremely different than in SC and you can't expect it to translate that well. The expectations placed upon WC3 players on this forum are absolutely ridiculous.
No one gives any credit to the fact that this is SC2 and not WC4. Of course if it was WC4 all you would hear on this forum is "BW players need more time to adjust, you can't judge them at all yet".
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Loving this topic , and did remind me a little bit of sk forums as well, those good old days :D
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On January 13 2011 20:54 JustQuitWarcraftIII wrote:
Not hating on WC3 players but I haven't seen any of kind of supposedly amazing micro from them either. Moon should have better micro than Grubby and he hasn't shown any godlike control so far in SC2.
what are you expecting to see? 16 pronged attacks and never losing a unit?
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On January 13 2011 23:35 Smackfools wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2011 20:54 JustQuitWarcraftIII wrote:
Not hating on WC3 players but I haven't seen any of kind of supposedly amazing micro from them either. Moon should have better micro than Grubby and he hasn't shown any godlike control so far in SC2. what are you expecting to see? 16 pronged attacks and never losing a unit?
He also plays the race that has the shortest range and the fewest high-hp units. I've seen some pretty good micro from WC3 players who play protoss.
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On January 13 2011 23:38 MorefaSho wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2011 23:35 Smackfools wrote:On January 13 2011 20:54 JustQuitWarcraftIII wrote:
Not hating on WC3 players but I haven't seen any of kind of supposedly amazing micro from them either. Moon should have better micro than Grubby and he hasn't shown any godlike control so far in SC2. what are you expecting to see? 16 pronged attacks and never losing a unit? He also plays the race that has the shortest range and the fewest high-hp units. I've seen some pretty good micro from WC3 players who play protoss.
I've seen some good micro but nothing that made me actually say damn. That happened all the time in BW and the very few games of WC3 I watched.
And I think he will fail if he tries to do both things at once. Dedicate your time to one thing or you will start to suck at what you're good at and never get good at the other.
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I hope he switch full time to SC2.
The hybrid status can only hurt his performance on both games, let´s be honest here...no one can be top player sharing playtime like that. These games require full time commitment if you really want to be pro.
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Australia8532 Posts
Is anyone else watching JP's channel at the moment?
+ Show Spoiler +It was grubby vs some random zerg where Grubby was playing significantly bad.. ih ope it wasn't the real grubby
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United Kingdom2950 Posts
On January 19 2011 14:25 bkrow wrote:
Is anyone else watching JP's channel at the moment?
That was a hilarious game - we seriously need a confirmation on whether or not that was Grubby~
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I seriously doubt that that was the real Grubby.
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On January 19 2011 14:25 bkrow wrote:Is anyone else watching JP's channel at the moment? + Show Spoiler +It was grubby vs some random zerg where Grubby was playing significantly bad.. ih ope it wasn't the real grubby
I feel there's a bigger chance that I'm the real Fruitdealer than that being the real Grubby.
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On January 20 2011 07:49 TheBanana wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2011 14:25 bkrow wrote:Is anyone else watching JP's channel at the moment? + Show Spoiler +It was grubby vs some random zerg where Grubby was playing significantly bad.. ih ope it wasn't the real grubby I feel there's a bigger chance that I'm the real Fruitdealer than that being the real Grubby.
I didn't even knew you spoke english
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Hows grubby doing? Haven't read anything of him when the year started. I'm quite curious about what he's doing right now and if he's doing it well.
Did he enter some SC2 tourneys yet?
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On January 13 2011 20:40 Charlemagne wrote:
Perhaps the best thing about the GSL is that first prize is around 80k. Every 1-2 months, yes? This tells me, quite clearly, that Flash, Jaedong, etc. (assuming they're legally allowed to compete; they are, right?) themselves don't think they can make the switch to sc2 without a lot of difficulty.
No, it's because 80k isn't attractive enough for them. Flash made like 500k last year why would he switch
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I really hope the Grubbstar (haha) will get huge in Sc2. It was so much fun watching him in Wc3 and because he is a super friendly guy also.
If he focuses completly on sc2 he can and will have great succes because grubbys greatest skill is his tactical knowledge and his decisionmaking.
And hell yeah you need that in sc2
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Not to mention his strength to practice well, he would always win the first game in a series, just by having a greater strategy planned out.
To all the BW more apm than WC3, it's true it does require more apm.
But that doesn't stop some players.
Focus with average of 450 apm and going up to 630 apm in battles.
Happy would also always be over the 400 apm bar.
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Well everyone can have 500 apm in wc3 or Bw, difference is what you gona do with it, if your just switching control groups etc
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I've seen plenty good and even great SC1 players have terrible micro in SC2. Does that mean that all sc1 players suck at micro? The answer is obvious, so why draw such paralles for WC3 players?
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The fact that the apm increases during battles, tells you how intense micro it requires.
I've seen Fly not losing a single unit in huge head on battles vs talons.
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On January 20 2011 21:39 ejozl wrote:
The fact that the apm increases during battles, tells you how intense micro it requires.
I've seen Fly not losing a single unit in huge head on battles vs talons. Warcraft III surely gave us some great moments
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuugycc71Pw[/youtube]
This one's awesome as well. And looks rather funny too.
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United States13896 Posts
Grubby: #802 on registered players for the TL Open this weekend!
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On January 22 2011 08:22 p4NDemik wrote:
Grubby: #802 on registered players for the TL Open this weekend!
Oh em gee. :D
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oh. hell. yes.
i cant wait to see him play :D
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I really think assembly will be a scary event for Grubby, thats a beast of a lineup....
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^ you sure thats grubby? I was under the impression he was keeping his account secret for the time being.. making an account called "grubby" isnt exactly the most inconspicuous thing in the world.
Nvm looking at who he teams with it does look like its grubby.
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Grubby lost round 1 today in TL Open to yoichibow. Not sure who that is.
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I beat Grubby on ladder today, he went for a proxy gate build on steppes. Heres to hoping he won't follow certain other WC3 players down the cheesy route!
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I'm pretty sure there are some fake grubbys going around.
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Well, same account as listed above ^^
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Pretty sure that's Grubby considering his teammate :'d and for the amount of games he played he isn't bad already in Master. Give him some time to adjust and I think we might see him going far.
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That's probably his account, given his teammate for 2s is named cassandra. But with little over 100 1v1's played you can't expect him to be anything special. Can you post the replay?
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Hahaha he is awesome for the amount of games he played he will be really good just give him 3 month and he will be one of the tip top european players.
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Nice! i loved Grubby's play in WC3, and i am especially excited for him to come into the SC2 scene! I don't think it will be too much of an issue being a "hybrid" player. He is solid at WC3 and his mechanics are amazing and i think that with time he will be a great player
<3 Grubby, I will cheer for him everywhere :D
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Yes that was grubby, and it was my teammate REQTheognis that eliminated him from todays tlopen
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On January 23 2011 10:41 RESTRiCT wrote:
Nice! i loved Grubby's play in WC3, and i am especially excited for him to come into the SC2 scene! I don't think it will be too much of an issue being a "hybrid" player. He is solid at WC3 and his mechanics are amazing and i think that with time he will be a great player
<3 Grubby, I will cheer for him everywhere :D
his mechanics are actually quiet terrible, and always were compared to others : /
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On January 23 2011 11:11 Elefanto wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2011 10:41 RESTRiCT wrote:
Nice! i loved Grubby's play in WC3, and i am especially excited for him to come into the SC2 scene! I don't think it will be too much of an issue being a "hybrid" player. He is solid at WC3 and his mechanics are amazing and i think that with time he will be a great player
<3 Grubby, I will cheer for him everywhere :D his mechanics are actually quiet terrible, and always were compared to others : /
Don't flamebait, keep your hate to your anti-Grubby shrine.
As for Grubby not kicking ass immediately, that shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. No-one picks up a game and competes at the highest level after a hundred games, even if you're a gifted RTS player. I don't expect Grubby to compete with he big boysuntil at least 2 months from now, probably longer. I just hope he sticks with playing SC2.
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he never will. He will be able to go pretty high off his natural rts ability alone, but he was never half as good as the other progamers in wc3. Not to mention he joined a team with infi and th00? for cepl which is a 6month league where you MUST life in china and he will be focusing on wc3 there i assume.
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On January 23 2011 11:52 peachsncream wrote:
he never will. He will be able to go pretty high off his natural rts ability alone, but he was never half as good as the other progamers in wc3. Not to mention he joined a team with infi and th00? for cepl which is a 6month league where you MUST life in china and he will be focusing on wc3 there i assume.
Firstly, what in the world makes you think he wasn't half as good as other progamers in WC3? Completely dumbfounded claim considering he is among some of the most consistent and accomplished pro-gamers of all time, let alone WC3 players. He was dominating up until the downfall of WC3 in countries other than China, we haven't seen much from him in either game lately, which leads me to believe he's trying to decide how he's going to pursue his gaming career.
Also, he didn't join a team with INfi and th00 (you're referring to tyloo), those claims were found untrue by a post from Cassandra who said that they were making shit up.
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Well sorry, that is why i put the question marks. He was dominating due to one thing, orc. I've personally played him 30-50 times and i can tell you he is just an average top level player. He knows how to abuse his race very well, but his actual skill just is nowhere near the other players i've played. Think terran vs zerg on jungle basin and multiply that by 3 or 4 and thats what grubbys games have been like.
User was temp banned for this post.
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I'm pretty sure none of those people you're talking about are actually Grubby. He's most likely laddering on a smurf account and he definitely didn't compete in the TL Open.
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On January 23 2011 12:07 hmunkey wrote:
I'm pretty sure none of those people you're talking about are actually Grubby. He's most likely laddering on a smurf account and he definitely didn't compete in the TL Open.
i can tell you guys that grubby was around 2500 before the reset. like 800 ladder games played and his name on the ladder before the "masters league" was grubby.
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On January 23 2011 12:04 peachsncream wrote:
Well sorry, that is why i put the question marks. He was dominating due to one thing, orc. I've personally played him 30-50 times and i can tell you he is just an average top level player. He knows how to abuse his race very well, but his actual skill just is nowhere near the other players i've played. Think terran vs zerg on jungle basin and multiply that by 3 or 4 and thats what grubbys games have been like.
no you're completely wrong. grubby has dominated for a lonnnng time in war3 through ALL periods of balance changes, how about 2004-5 when Grubby was owning with Orc when Night Elf was considered broken?
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On January 23 2011 12:04 peachsncream wrote:
Well sorry, that is why i put the question marks. He was dominating due to one thing, orc. I've personally played him 30-50 times and i can tell you he is just an average top level player. He knows how to abuse his race very well, but his actual skill just is nowhere near the other players i've played. Think terran vs zerg on jungle basin and multiply that by 3 or 4 and thats what grubbys games have been like.
an american who've met grubby between 30 - 50 times, I lol`d. Especially seeing as ur calling him an "average top level player". Might I ask what level players such as Kiwikaki (i know hes canadian) and so on is at ?
And I even highly doubt any person have played that grubby that many times outside of europe / korea. And if they have, they would certainly not call the guy average top player. Rofl.
And out of interest, who are u ?~~
PS , No american nor Canadian for that matter even came close to Grubbys skill level in wc3.
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On January 23 2011 12:04 peachsncream wrote:
Well sorry, that is why i put the question marks. He was dominating due to one thing, orc. I've personally played him 30-50 times and i can tell you he is just an average top level player. He knows how to abuse his race very well, but his actual skill just is nowhere near the other players i've played. Think terran vs zerg on jungle basin and multiply that by 3 or 4 and thats what grubbys games have been like.
yeah he was the only dude playing orc so that explains everything hehehehe
and when he started dominating orc was considered pretty weak, so I can safely say that, you sir, are an idiot.
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On January 23 2011 12:04 peachsncream wrote:
Well sorry, that is why i put the question marks. He was dominating due to one thing, orc. I've personally played him 30-50 times and i can tell you he is just an average top level player. He knows how to abuse his race very well, but his actual skill just is nowhere near the other players i've played. Think terran vs zerg on jungle basin and multiply that by 3 or 4 and thats what grubbys games have been like.
Nice one try troll.
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On January 23 2011 08:07 WAAA wrote:
^ you sure thats grubby? I was under the impression he was keeping his account secret for the time being.. making an account called "grubby" isnt exactly the most inconspicuous thing in the world.
Nvm looking at who he teams with it does look like its grubby.
It's Grubby. I actually played him. I was really amazed when I met someone called Grubby on the ladder. As he was Dutch (like me) I was fairly confident I got the real one.
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No way to tell, the link for Grubby doesn't link to his Bnet account whatsoever.
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On January 23 2011 22:36 Darkomicron wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2011 08:07 WAAA wrote:
^ you sure thats grubby? I was under the impression he was keeping his account secret for the time being.. making an account called "grubby" isnt exactly the most inconspicuous thing in the world.
Nvm looking at who he teams with it does look like its grubby. It's Grubby. I actually played him. I was really amazed when I met someone called Grubby on the ladder. As he was Dutch (like me) I was fairly confident I got the real one.
And he has played 2v2's with someone named Cassandra, which happens to be the name of his wife/girlfriend.
Edit: sorry for double post, i just noticed it.
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Yeah I think thats him, since his match history says that he beat nukestrike as do the brackets.
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Cool thanks for saying, too bad that it's German though.
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You truely held that off with very little issue
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I think it's important to mention that Moon and Grubby are both past their prime as gamers. Not as much as Boxer is, but still to a significant degree. From what I observed, Moon's results in WC3 had already been dropping for a while when he switched, with Grubby's less so. This doesn't mean that they won't be able to compete in the still infantile SC2 scene, but it is significant.
I think that Grubby might have more staying power, so while Moon will definitely have the skills to go to the top, I fear that he will not be a constant figure. While Grubby, if he succeeds, will most likely duke it out at the top of the SC2 scene for quite a while. It's important to understand that both are engenious players in each their way, and that the hope that this rubs off in SC2 is definitely worth something. SC2 has the gameplay to allow for just as much magic as WC3, I think, so hopefully their will enrichen the scene with some extremely clever play.
Both were my favourite players back when I followed the WC3 scene. Moon perhaps a bit more so, because he was always a bit more magical, with Grubby at later stages seeming a bit mechanical. Moon, the most successful WC3 player ever, was always amazing with his perfection of micro moves, and uses micro were creatively. He plays cleverly, and while he was not as solid as other top players in all aspects, his ability to multitask and perfectly execute mass-expansions and clever little tactics often got him the edge when his micro couldn't. Grubby, meanwhile, was a player whose games I just loved watching when I started the game, and quickly became my favourite back then. He is just so intelligent in the way he plays, and is always able to turn mechanics into his favour. He was so solid and just seemed to make perfect use of everything. I hope these things translate in SC2, but I really don't know where they have left off in WC3, since watching thousands of WC3 replays became tedious to me in the end, and play had simply become too abusive and monotonous as it evolved.
Edit: Oh, last thing. I would say that prize money definitely doesn't come too easy for Grubby and Moon in WC3. While they are obviously hanging in there because the chances are good, it seems from the results that the strong Chinese scene is now dominating, and the best Chinese have actually surpassed the other top players. So, while Moon and Grubby finishing top is not out of the picture, I wouldn't think it's expected anymore.
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at some BlizzCon, when SC2 was in Alpha stage, I saw Grubby play vs some korean BW progamer, I think it was Yellow - the real one, not Yarnc, but I don't remember exactly.
In that game, Grubby was zerg and Yellow was Toss.
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On January 23 2011 23:51 MindRush wrote:
at some BlizzCon, when SC2 was in Alpha stage, I saw Grubby play vs some korean BW progamer, I think it was Yellow - the real one, not Yarnc, but I don't remember exactly.
In that game, Grubby was zerg and Yellow was Toss.
Pretty sure that was Sonkie against Yellow (yeah the real yellow). Neither player had much of an idea what they were doing, but Yellow at least had a gameplan. Made blink stalkers and attacked, using blink to massacre the zergling army. gg
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everyone else has been going hardcore with sc2 for a bunch of months now
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On January 13 2011 20:54 JustQuitWarcraftIII wrote:
Not hating on WC3 players but I haven't seen any of kind of supposedly amazing micro from them either. Moon should have better micro than Grubby and he hasn't shown any godlike control so far in SC2.
It's a silly assumption to think that because WC3 players have exhibited great micro in WC3 that they should have any different micro than old SC:BW players. The latter had great micro as well when they tried, WC3 just focused more on micro. Those whose micro constantly in SC2 will probably fail, since SC2 has less emphasis on micro than WC3 did. Maybe some of the old WC3 players will be more micro-oriented in the first few months of playing SC2, but I doubt there is ever going to be a big difference.
Moon has been playing at absolutely top level for a long time. It's not surprising if he's not able to micro as well as his "young" days. I seem to recall that he even had problems with a mouse injury as well one or two years ago. Apart from lower reaction times from getting older, you would think that such things would hamper him as well. Obviously, Moon know he will not be able to macro his way to victory, and from what I've read in the LR threads, he does a decent job trying to out-think the opponent instead.
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On January 02 2011 15:36 nGBeast wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2011 15:11 hewtrain wrote:On January 02 2011 14:53 nGBeast wrote:On January 02 2011 14:33 hewtrain wrote:On January 02 2011 14:27 nGBeast wrote:On January 02 2011 14:02 hewtrain wrote:ban inc but i dont give a shit On January 01 2011 08:09 travis wrote:
did you wake up on the wrong side of the fucking bed? every single post you made in this thread you sound like a fucking whining asshat, i dont give a shit how many posts you have, you are a fucking douche.. P.S On January 01 2011 07:38 ffz wrote:
Stop with this bs aobut "one of the greatest ever in wc3". He is THE greatest... His micro and macro are both so amazing. Plus his mind is made for strategy. get a clue + Show Spoiler + are you serious? Grubby has been the most consistent WC3 player of all time. Moon has only a few top finishes in the big tourneys in the last 2 year, and the last was NGL One where he came in 1st, his last good 1st place finish was IEF in 2008, pretty much the end of his good streak. listen to yourself idiot.. 'only a few top finishes in the big tourneys in the last 2 years'.. wc3 has died down considerably in the last 2 years and the life of wc3 goes LONG beyond a span of only 2 years.. you dont mention 06-07 when grubby was copping anal from euro trash elves for a whole year? you also just brush aside his NGL win because it suits your argument.. lmfao what a fucking joke of a post and claim.. anyone who has any idea knows moon is far and away the greatest wc3 player of all time.. as for 2nd place? then maybe we can mention grubby Your obviously an idiot who hasn't followed wc3, or his fanboyism is to far up your ass to take a look at the acheivements lmao. NGL One was a joke compared to what NGL use to be. Grubby has consistently placed in every top tourney every year he's been a pro gamer. Also if the game has "died" then how come the "greatest" player of all time isn't winning everything? Lmao nice logic, he was good in 07, winning pretty much everything, but he's never gained that form again. He's never even won WCG lmao. Sorry bud, but your fanboyism only takes you so far. Edit: Grubby shit on him in WEM finals in 2009, and in WCG 2008. Grubby is also the only player to win WCG and ESWC. wrong.. for a start, NGL use to be a team league before it became solo, how can you compare the two? grubby "winning pretty much everything" in 07? and im the one who is "obviously an idiot who hasn't followed wc3, or his fanboyism is to far up your ass to take a look at the acheivements lmao" grubby was getting raped in 07 by every top 5 elf.. also read my post, i didnt say the game has died, i said it has died DOWN, meaning the scene is far weaker than it use to be (never stated it was dead).. even if wc3 had died already, why does that mean the "greatest player of all time" would be winning everything? you clearly have no idea of the difference between current best and greatest of all time.. stating he has never won WCG as an argument is an absolute joke, taking into consideration grubby gets auto qualification to the finals every year, meanwhile in korea moon has to fight tooth and nail just to get qualification year after year against top names such as lyn, remind, lucifer, fov, focus, who etc.. allow me to ask you who grubby has EVER beaten to gain entry to the WCG finals? rotterdam? lmfao hardly comparible.. " Sorry bud, but your fanboyism only takes you so far." 1. im not even a moon fan, in fact he is not even in my favourite 5 players. 2. find a mirror edit: you pretty much proved how much of a fucking moron you are by stating 2 matches where grubby defeated moon, like that has some sort of bearing on which of the 2 is the greater of ALL time.. Hell, even I'd take Creo over both of them. That guy came out of retirement and raped beyond belief.
OMG ! dude I almost forgot about Creo ! he was a sick player ! I think that guy made the best exit out of e-sports with the best image anyone can ever have , his 2007 wcg victory was the most exciting Human vs Night elf game i've ever seen.....the way he farmed all the exp to reach level 6 demon hunter in a situation where everyone thought he was dead , and going on rampage against sky back when everyone thought he was unbeatable.....ahhhhh the memories , good times man.
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On January 24 2011 00:43 Tchado wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2011 15:36 nGBeast wrote:On January 02 2011 15:11 hewtrain wrote:On January 02 2011 14:53 nGBeast wrote:On January 02 2011 14:33 hewtrain wrote:On January 02 2011 14:27 nGBeast wrote:On January 02 2011 14:02 hewtrain wrote:ban inc but i dont give a shit On January 01 2011 08:09 travis wrote:
did you wake up on the wrong side of the fucking bed? every single post you made in this thread you sound like a fucking whining asshat, i dont give a shit how many posts you have, you are a fucking douche.. P.S On January 01 2011 07:38 ffz wrote:
Stop with this bs aobut "one of the greatest ever in wc3". He is THE greatest... His micro and macro are both so amazing. Plus his mind is made for strategy. get a clue + Show Spoiler + are you serious? Grubby has been the most consistent WC3 player of all time. Moon has only a few top finishes in the big tourneys in the last 2 year, and the last was NGL One where he came in 1st, his last good 1st place finish was IEF in 2008, pretty much the end of his good streak. listen to yourself idiot.. 'only a few top finishes in the big tourneys in the last 2 years'.. wc3 has died down considerably in the last 2 years and the life of wc3 goes LONG beyond a span of only 2 years.. you dont mention 06-07 when grubby was copping anal from euro trash elves for a whole year? you also just brush aside his NGL win because it suits your argument.. lmfao what a fucking joke of a post and claim.. anyone who has any idea knows moon is far and away the greatest wc3 player of all time.. as for 2nd place? then maybe we can mention grubby Your obviously an idiot who hasn't followed wc3, or his fanboyism is to far up your ass to take a look at the acheivements lmao. NGL One was a joke compared to what NGL use to be. Grubby has consistently placed in every top tourney every year he's been a pro gamer. Also if the game has "died" then how come the "greatest" player of all time isn't winning everything? Lmao nice logic, he was good in 07, winning pretty much everything, but he's never gained that form again. He's never even won WCG lmao. Sorry bud, but your fanboyism only takes you so far. Edit: Grubby shit on him in WEM finals in 2009, and in WCG 2008. Grubby is also the only player to win WCG and ESWC. wrong.. for a start, NGL use to be a team league before it became solo, how can you compare the two? grubby "winning pretty much everything" in 07? and im the one who is "obviously an idiot who hasn't followed wc3, or his fanboyism is to far up your ass to take a look at the acheivements lmao" grubby was getting raped in 07 by every top 5 elf.. also read my post, i didnt say the game has died, i said it has died DOWN, meaning the scene is far weaker than it use to be (never stated it was dead).. even if wc3 had died already, why does that mean the "greatest player of all time" would be winning everything? you clearly have no idea of the difference between current best and greatest of all time.. stating he has never won WCG as an argument is an absolute joke, taking into consideration grubby gets auto qualification to the finals every year, meanwhile in korea moon has to fight tooth and nail just to get qualification year after year against top names such as lyn, remind, lucifer, fov, focus, who etc.. allow me to ask you who grubby has EVER beaten to gain entry to the WCG finals? rotterdam? lmfao hardly comparible.. " Sorry bud, but your fanboyism only takes you so far." 1. im not even a moon fan, in fact he is not even in my favourite 5 players. 2. find a mirror edit: you pretty much proved how much of a fucking moron you are by stating 2 matches where grubby defeated moon, like that has some sort of bearing on which of the 2 is the greater of ALL time.. Hell, even I'd take Creo over both of them. That guy came out of retirement and raped beyond belief. OMG ! dude I almost forgot about Creo ! he was a sick player ! I think that guy made the best exit out of e-sports with the best image anyone can ever have , his 2007 wcg victory was the most exciting Human vs Night elf game i've ever seen.....the way he farmed all the exp to reach level 6 demon hunter in a situation where everyone thought he was dead , and going on rampage against sky back when everyone thought he was unbeatable.....ahhhhh the memories , good times man.
Norwegian player Creolopolus or wtf ?
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On January 24 2011 01:19 Sqq wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2011 00:43 Tchado wrote:On January 02 2011 15:36 nGBeast wrote:On January 02 2011 15:11 hewtrain wrote:On January 02 2011 14:53 nGBeast wrote:On January 02 2011 14:33 hewtrain wrote:On January 02 2011 14:27 nGBeast wrote:On January 02 2011 14:02 hewtrain wrote:ban inc but i dont give a shit On January 01 2011 08:09 travis wrote:
did you wake up on the wrong side of the fucking bed? every single post you made in this thread you sound like a fucking whining asshat, i dont give a shit how many posts you have, you are a fucking douche.. P.S On January 01 2011 07:38 ffz wrote:
Stop with this bs aobut "one of the greatest ever in wc3". He is THE greatest... His micro and macro are both so amazing. Plus his mind is made for strategy. get a clue + Show Spoiler + are you serious? Grubby has been the most consistent WC3 player of all time. Moon has only a few top finishes in the big tourneys in the last 2 year, and the last was NGL One where he came in 1st, his last good 1st place finish was IEF in 2008, pretty much the end of his good streak. listen to yourself idiot.. 'only a few top finishes in the big tourneys in the last 2 years'.. wc3 has died down considerably in the last 2 years and the life of wc3 goes LONG beyond a span of only 2 years.. you dont mention 06-07 when grubby was copping anal from euro trash elves for a whole year? you also just brush aside his NGL win because it suits your argument.. lmfao what a fucking joke of a post and claim.. anyone who has any idea knows moon is far and away the greatest wc3 player of all time.. as for 2nd place? then maybe we can mention grubby Your obviously an idiot who hasn't followed wc3, or his fanboyism is to far up your ass to take a look at the acheivements lmao. NGL One was a joke compared to what NGL use to be. Grubby has consistently placed in every top tourney every year he's been a pro gamer. Also if the game has "died" then how come the "greatest" player of all time isn't winning everything? Lmao nice logic, he was good in 07, winning pretty much everything, but he's never gained that form again. He's never even won WCG lmao. Sorry bud, but your fanboyism only takes you so far. Edit: Grubby shit on him in WEM finals in 2009, and in WCG 2008. Grubby is also the only player to win WCG and ESWC. wrong.. for a start, NGL use to be a team league before it became solo, how can you compare the two? grubby "winning pretty much everything" in 07? and im the one who is "obviously an idiot who hasn't followed wc3, or his fanboyism is to far up your ass to take a look at the acheivements lmao" grubby was getting raped in 07 by every top 5 elf.. also read my post, i didnt say the game has died, i said it has died DOWN, meaning the scene is far weaker than it use to be (never stated it was dead).. even if wc3 had died already, why does that mean the "greatest player of all time" would be winning everything? you clearly have no idea of the difference between current best and greatest of all time.. stating he has never won WCG as an argument is an absolute joke, taking into consideration grubby gets auto qualification to the finals every year, meanwhile in korea moon has to fight tooth and nail just to get qualification year after year against top names such as lyn, remind, lucifer, fov, focus, who etc.. allow me to ask you who grubby has EVER beaten to gain entry to the WCG finals? rotterdam? lmfao hardly comparible.. " Sorry bud, but your fanboyism only takes you so far." 1. im not even a moon fan, in fact he is not even in my favourite 5 players. 2. find a mirror edit: you pretty much proved how much of a fucking moron you are by stating 2 matches where grubby defeated moon, like that has some sort of bearing on which of the 2 is the greater of ALL time.. Hell, even I'd take Creo over both of them. That guy came out of retirement and raped beyond belief. OMG ! dude I almost forgot about Creo ! he was a sick player ! I think that guy made the best exit out of e-sports with the best image anyone can ever have , his 2007 wcg victory was the most exciting Human vs Night elf game i've ever seen.....the way he farmed all the exp to reach level 6 demon hunter in a situation where everyone thought he was dead , and going on rampage against sky back when everyone thought he was unbeatable.....ahhhhh the memories , good times man. Norwegian player Creolopolus or wtf ?
Yes, that's the guy. After being a semi-top player for a long while, he had a breakthrough and apparently did amazingly ((had stopped watching myself at that point) for a period (almost a year, I think) before he retired, only having been semi-active around his greatest victory at WCG.
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Related to this topic, SK Gaming just posted an interview with Grubby in which Grubby states that there pretty much aren't any WC3 tournaments back and it's time for him to move on to SC2, "pretty much focusing on SC2"
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EPT
