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I think it's important to mention that Moon and Grubby are both past their prime as gamers. Not as much as Boxer is, but still to a significant degree. From what I observed, Moon's results in WC3 had already been dropping for a while when he switched, with Grubby's less so. This doesn't mean that they won't be able to compete in the still infantile SC2 scene, but it is significant.
I think that Grubby might have more staying power, so while Moon will definitely have the skills to go to the top, I fear that he will not be a constant figure. While Grubby, if he succeeds, will most likely duke it out at the top of the SC2 scene for quite a while. It's important to understand that both are engenious players in each their way, and that the hope that this rubs off in SC2 is definitely worth something. SC2 has the gameplay to allow for just as much magic as WC3, I think, so hopefully their will enrichen the scene with some extremely clever play.
Both were my favourite players back when I followed the WC3 scene. Moon perhaps a bit more so, because he was always a bit more magical, with Grubby at later stages seeming a bit mechanical. Moon, the most successful WC3 player ever, was always amazing with his perfection of micro moves, and uses micro were creatively. He plays cleverly, and while he was not as solid as other top players in all aspects, his ability to multitask and perfectly execute mass-expansions and clever little tactics often got him the edge when his micro couldn't. Grubby, meanwhile, was a player whose games I just loved watching when I started the game, and quickly became my favourite back then. He is just so intelligent in the way he plays, and is always able to turn mechanics into his favour. He was so solid and just seemed to make perfect use of everything. I hope these things translate in SC2, but I really don't know where they have left off in WC3, since watching thousands of WC3 replays became tedious to me in the end, and play had simply become too abusive and monotonous as it evolved.
Edit: Oh, last thing. I would say that prize money definitely doesn't come too easy for Grubby and Moon in WC3. While they are obviously hanging in there because the chances are good, it seems from the results that the strong Chinese scene is now dominating, and the best Chinese have actually surpassed the other top players. So, while Moon and Grubby finishing top is not out of the picture, I wouldn't think it's expected anymore.
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at some BlizzCon, when SC2 was in Alpha stage, I saw Grubby play vs some korean BW progamer, I think it was Yellow - the real one, not Yarnc, but I don't remember exactly.
In that game, Grubby was zerg and Yellow was Toss.
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On January 23 2011 23:51 MindRush wrote:
at some BlizzCon, when SC2 was in Alpha stage, I saw Grubby play vs some korean BW progamer, I think it was Yellow - the real one, not Yarnc, but I don't remember exactly.
In that game, Grubby was zerg and Yellow was Toss.
Pretty sure that was Sonkie against Yellow (yeah the real yellow). Neither player had much of an idea what they were doing, but Yellow at least had a gameplan. Made blink stalkers and attacked, using blink to massacre the zergling army. gg
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everyone else has been going hardcore with sc2 for a bunch of months now
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On January 13 2011 20:54 JustQuitWarcraftIII wrote:
Not hating on WC3 players but I haven't seen any of kind of supposedly amazing micro from them either. Moon should have better micro than Grubby and he hasn't shown any godlike control so far in SC2.
It's a silly assumption to think that because WC3 players have exhibited great micro in WC3 that they should have any different micro than old SC:BW players. The latter had great micro as well when they tried, WC3 just focused more on micro. Those whose micro constantly in SC2 will probably fail, since SC2 has less emphasis on micro than WC3 did. Maybe some of the old WC3 players will be more micro-oriented in the first few months of playing SC2, but I doubt there is ever going to be a big difference.
Moon has been playing at absolutely top level for a long time. It's not surprising if he's not able to micro as well as his "young" days. I seem to recall that he even had problems with a mouse injury as well one or two years ago. Apart from lower reaction times from getting older, you would think that such things would hamper him as well. Obviously, Moon know he will not be able to macro his way to victory, and from what I've read in the LR threads, he does a decent job trying to out-think the opponent instead.
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On January 02 2011 15:36 nGBeast wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2011 15:11 hewtrain wrote:On January 02 2011 14:53 nGBeast wrote:On January 02 2011 14:33 hewtrain wrote:On January 02 2011 14:27 nGBeast wrote:On January 02 2011 14:02 hewtrain wrote:ban inc but i dont give a shit On January 01 2011 08:09 travis wrote:
did you wake up on the wrong side of the fucking bed? every single post you made in this thread you sound like a fucking whining asshat, i dont give a shit how many posts you have, you are a fucking douche.. P.S On January 01 2011 07:38 ffz wrote:
Stop with this bs aobut "one of the greatest ever in wc3". He is THE greatest... His micro and macro are both so amazing. Plus his mind is made for strategy. get a clue + Show Spoiler + are you serious? Grubby has been the most consistent WC3 player of all time. Moon has only a few top finishes in the big tourneys in the last 2 year, and the last was NGL One where he came in 1st, his last good 1st place finish was IEF in 2008, pretty much the end of his good streak. listen to yourself idiot.. 'only a few top finishes in the big tourneys in the last 2 years'.. wc3 has died down considerably in the last 2 years and the life of wc3 goes LONG beyond a span of only 2 years.. you dont mention 06-07 when grubby was copping anal from euro trash elves for a whole year? you also just brush aside his NGL win because it suits your argument.. lmfao what a fucking joke of a post and claim.. anyone who has any idea knows moon is far and away the greatest wc3 player of all time.. as for 2nd place? then maybe we can mention grubby Your obviously an idiot who hasn't followed wc3, or his fanboyism is to far up your ass to take a look at the acheivements lmao. NGL One was a joke compared to what NGL use to be. Grubby has consistently placed in every top tourney every year he's been a pro gamer. Also if the game has "died" then how come the "greatest" player of all time isn't winning everything? Lmao nice logic, he was good in 07, winning pretty much everything, but he's never gained that form again. He's never even won WCG lmao. Sorry bud, but your fanboyism only takes you so far. Edit: Grubby shit on him in WEM finals in 2009, and in WCG 2008. Grubby is also the only player to win WCG and ESWC. wrong.. for a start, NGL use to be a team league before it became solo, how can you compare the two? grubby "winning pretty much everything" in 07? and im the one who is "obviously an idiot who hasn't followed wc3, or his fanboyism is to far up your ass to take a look at the acheivements lmao" grubby was getting raped in 07 by every top 5 elf.. also read my post, i didnt say the game has died, i said it has died DOWN, meaning the scene is far weaker than it use to be (never stated it was dead).. even if wc3 had died already, why does that mean the "greatest player of all time" would be winning everything? you clearly have no idea of the difference between current best and greatest of all time.. stating he has never won WCG as an argument is an absolute joke, taking into consideration grubby gets auto qualification to the finals every year, meanwhile in korea moon has to fight tooth and nail just to get qualification year after year against top names such as lyn, remind, lucifer, fov, focus, who etc.. allow me to ask you who grubby has EVER beaten to gain entry to the WCG finals? rotterdam? lmfao hardly comparible.. " Sorry bud, but your fanboyism only takes you so far." 1. im not even a moon fan, in fact he is not even in my favourite 5 players. 2. find a mirror edit: you pretty much proved how much of a fucking moron you are by stating 2 matches where grubby defeated moon, like that has some sort of bearing on which of the 2 is the greater of ALL time.. Hell, even I'd take Creo over both of them. That guy came out of retirement and raped beyond belief.
OMG ! dude I almost forgot about Creo ! he was a sick player ! I think that guy made the best exit out of e-sports with the best image anyone can ever have , his 2007 wcg victory was the most exciting Human vs Night elf game i've ever seen.....the way he farmed all the exp to reach level 6 demon hunter in a situation where everyone thought he was dead , and going on rampage against sky back when everyone thought he was unbeatable.....ahhhhh the memories , good times man.
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On January 24 2011 00:43 Tchado wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2011 15:36 nGBeast wrote:On January 02 2011 15:11 hewtrain wrote:On January 02 2011 14:53 nGBeast wrote:On January 02 2011 14:33 hewtrain wrote:On January 02 2011 14:27 nGBeast wrote:On January 02 2011 14:02 hewtrain wrote:ban inc but i dont give a shit On January 01 2011 08:09 travis wrote:
did you wake up on the wrong side of the fucking bed? every single post you made in this thread you sound like a fucking whining asshat, i dont give a shit how many posts you have, you are a fucking douche.. P.S On January 01 2011 07:38 ffz wrote:
Stop with this bs aobut "one of the greatest ever in wc3". He is THE greatest... His micro and macro are both so amazing. Plus his mind is made for strategy. get a clue + Show Spoiler + are you serious? Grubby has been the most consistent WC3 player of all time. Moon has only a few top finishes in the big tourneys in the last 2 year, and the last was NGL One where he came in 1st, his last good 1st place finish was IEF in 2008, pretty much the end of his good streak. listen to yourself idiot.. 'only a few top finishes in the big tourneys in the last 2 years'.. wc3 has died down considerably in the last 2 years and the life of wc3 goes LONG beyond a span of only 2 years.. you dont mention 06-07 when grubby was copping anal from euro trash elves for a whole year? you also just brush aside his NGL win because it suits your argument.. lmfao what a fucking joke of a post and claim.. anyone who has any idea knows moon is far and away the greatest wc3 player of all time.. as for 2nd place? then maybe we can mention grubby Your obviously an idiot who hasn't followed wc3, or his fanboyism is to far up your ass to take a look at the acheivements lmao. NGL One was a joke compared to what NGL use to be. Grubby has consistently placed in every top tourney every year he's been a pro gamer. Also if the game has "died" then how come the "greatest" player of all time isn't winning everything? Lmao nice logic, he was good in 07, winning pretty much everything, but he's never gained that form again. He's never even won WCG lmao. Sorry bud, but your fanboyism only takes you so far. Edit: Grubby shit on him in WEM finals in 2009, and in WCG 2008. Grubby is also the only player to win WCG and ESWC. wrong.. for a start, NGL use to be a team league before it became solo, how can you compare the two? grubby "winning pretty much everything" in 07? and im the one who is "obviously an idiot who hasn't followed wc3, or his fanboyism is to far up your ass to take a look at the acheivements lmao" grubby was getting raped in 07 by every top 5 elf.. also read my post, i didnt say the game has died, i said it has died DOWN, meaning the scene is far weaker than it use to be (never stated it was dead).. even if wc3 had died already, why does that mean the "greatest player of all time" would be winning everything? you clearly have no idea of the difference between current best and greatest of all time.. stating he has never won WCG as an argument is an absolute joke, taking into consideration grubby gets auto qualification to the finals every year, meanwhile in korea moon has to fight tooth and nail just to get qualification year after year against top names such as lyn, remind, lucifer, fov, focus, who etc.. allow me to ask you who grubby has EVER beaten to gain entry to the WCG finals? rotterdam? lmfao hardly comparible.. " Sorry bud, but your fanboyism only takes you so far." 1. im not even a moon fan, in fact he is not even in my favourite 5 players. 2. find a mirror edit: you pretty much proved how much of a fucking moron you are by stating 2 matches where grubby defeated moon, like that has some sort of bearing on which of the 2 is the greater of ALL time.. Hell, even I'd take Creo over both of them. That guy came out of retirement and raped beyond belief. OMG ! dude I almost forgot about Creo ! he was a sick player ! I think that guy made the best exit out of e-sports with the best image anyone can ever have , his 2007 wcg victory was the most exciting Human vs Night elf game i've ever seen.....the way he farmed all the exp to reach level 6 demon hunter in a situation where everyone thought he was dead , and going on rampage against sky back when everyone thought he was unbeatable.....ahhhhh the memories , good times man.
Norwegian player Creolopolus or wtf ?
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On January 24 2011 01:19 Sqq wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2011 00:43 Tchado wrote:On January 02 2011 15:36 nGBeast wrote:On January 02 2011 15:11 hewtrain wrote:On January 02 2011 14:53 nGBeast wrote:On January 02 2011 14:33 hewtrain wrote:On January 02 2011 14:27 nGBeast wrote:On January 02 2011 14:02 hewtrain wrote:ban inc but i dont give a shit On January 01 2011 08:09 travis wrote:
did you wake up on the wrong side of the fucking bed? every single post you made in this thread you sound like a fucking whining asshat, i dont give a shit how many posts you have, you are a fucking douche.. P.S On January 01 2011 07:38 ffz wrote:
Stop with this bs aobut "one of the greatest ever in wc3". He is THE greatest... His micro and macro are both so amazing. Plus his mind is made for strategy. get a clue + Show Spoiler + are you serious? Grubby has been the most consistent WC3 player of all time. Moon has only a few top finishes in the big tourneys in the last 2 year, and the last was NGL One where he came in 1st, his last good 1st place finish was IEF in 2008, pretty much the end of his good streak. listen to yourself idiot.. 'only a few top finishes in the big tourneys in the last 2 years'.. wc3 has died down considerably in the last 2 years and the life of wc3 goes LONG beyond a span of only 2 years.. you dont mention 06-07 when grubby was copping anal from euro trash elves for a whole year? you also just brush aside his NGL win because it suits your argument.. lmfao what a fucking joke of a post and claim.. anyone who has any idea knows moon is far and away the greatest wc3 player of all time.. as for 2nd place? then maybe we can mention grubby Your obviously an idiot who hasn't followed wc3, or his fanboyism is to far up your ass to take a look at the acheivements lmao. NGL One was a joke compared to what NGL use to be. Grubby has consistently placed in every top tourney every year he's been a pro gamer. Also if the game has "died" then how come the "greatest" player of all time isn't winning everything? Lmao nice logic, he was good in 07, winning pretty much everything, but he's never gained that form again. He's never even won WCG lmao. Sorry bud, but your fanboyism only takes you so far. Edit: Grubby shit on him in WEM finals in 2009, and in WCG 2008. Grubby is also the only player to win WCG and ESWC. wrong.. for a start, NGL use to be a team league before it became solo, how can you compare the two? grubby "winning pretty much everything" in 07? and im the one who is "obviously an idiot who hasn't followed wc3, or his fanboyism is to far up your ass to take a look at the acheivements lmao" grubby was getting raped in 07 by every top 5 elf.. also read my post, i didnt say the game has died, i said it has died DOWN, meaning the scene is far weaker than it use to be (never stated it was dead).. even if wc3 had died already, why does that mean the "greatest player of all time" would be winning everything? you clearly have no idea of the difference between current best and greatest of all time.. stating he has never won WCG as an argument is an absolute joke, taking into consideration grubby gets auto qualification to the finals every year, meanwhile in korea moon has to fight tooth and nail just to get qualification year after year against top names such as lyn, remind, lucifer, fov, focus, who etc.. allow me to ask you who grubby has EVER beaten to gain entry to the WCG finals? rotterdam? lmfao hardly comparible.. " Sorry bud, but your fanboyism only takes you so far." 1. im not even a moon fan, in fact he is not even in my favourite 5 players. 2. find a mirror edit: you pretty much proved how much of a fucking moron you are by stating 2 matches where grubby defeated moon, like that has some sort of bearing on which of the 2 is the greater of ALL time.. Hell, even I'd take Creo over both of them. That guy came out of retirement and raped beyond belief. OMG ! dude I almost forgot about Creo ! he was a sick player ! I think that guy made the best exit out of e-sports with the best image anyone can ever have , his 2007 wcg victory was the most exciting Human vs Night elf game i've ever seen.....the way he farmed all the exp to reach level 6 demon hunter in a situation where everyone thought he was dead , and going on rampage against sky back when everyone thought he was unbeatable.....ahhhhh the memories , good times man. Norwegian player Creolopolus or wtf ?
Yes, that's the guy. After being a semi-top player for a long while, he had a breakthrough and apparently did amazingly ((had stopped watching myself at that point) for a period (almost a year, I think) before he retired, only having been semi-active around his greatest victory at WCG.
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Related to this topic, SK Gaming just posted an interview with Grubby in which Grubby states that there pretty much aren't any WC3 tournaments back and it's time for him to move on to SC2, "pretty much focusing on SC2"
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EPT
