On December 22 2010 20:36 Askesis wrote: So, most importantly, did Sjow win the first tournament?
It would be funny if after "being a lock for the finals in all 18", he didn't win the first one.
Someone wrote somewhere in this thread that neither of them played in the first one.
Oh? I thought I had read that only one (Sjow) competed.
If neither competed, i think it's a bit suspicious. Why would they go from trying to cooperate to run through the easy field, and then in response have NEITHER of them play? I figured one of them dropped out in order for the other to have an easy run through the gauntlet. If both of them dropped out, then....well, I would not think they would both voluntarily sit out of this easy-field tournament for a very significant grand prize, let's put it that way.
I tried to find the post I was talking about but I found a lot of contradicting posts, and since neither has any sources I have no idea what's true.
This never would have happend if Sjow posted his confession, it would all merely be groundless accusation given the lack of strong evidence. I think people are being too harsh. He says he has no evil intentions. You can't just lump him with your average matchfixer. He also has a good point: the injustice of matchfixing is originated from the conflicting interests of the audience.
Also whoever designed the tournament this way should stop thinking off his ass. The prize ladder is pretty much an extra incentive for matchfixing.
Lesson to be learnt, if your gonna do something pragmatic, keep it as secret as you can and don't be so complacent as to show it on stream or public areas (which is not that hard to do).
On December 22 2010 20:36 Askesis wrote: So, most importantly, did Sjow win the first tournament?
It would be funny if after "being a lock for the finals in all 18", he didn't win the first one.
Someone wrote somewhere in this thread that neither of them played in the first one.
Oh? I thought I had read that only one (Sjow) competed.
If neither competed, i think it's a bit suspicious. Why would they go from trying to cooperate to run through the easy field, and then in response have NEITHER of them play? I figured one of them dropped out in order for the other to have an easy run through the gauntlet. If both of them dropped out, then....well, I would not think they would both voluntarily sit out of this easy-field tournament for a very significant grand prize, let's put it that way.
I tried to find the post I was talking about but I found a lot of contradicting posts, and since neither has any sources I have no idea what's true.
Yea, the post I was referring to was one of Sjow's replies, now posted in the OP.
On December 22 2010 15:30 SjoW wrote: Lets make this clear. We both wanted to participate on this league and if both would participate on this tournament it would decrease our chances of winning the grandprize (a computer).
The league consists of 18 tournaments and is played once a day. For every first place you get a prize and climb one step closer to the grandprize. You ultimatly need to win 11 tournament to get the grandprize and when there is only 18 tournaments, only one can get the grandprize.
So we both agreed it would be better if we split the prizes and just let one of us win everyone. (we assumed we would go to the finals everytime since we would be in diffrent part of brackets because of seeds, we didnt see any harm in it.
We talked with the organisation and they didnt allow us to do fixed matches. Now only one of us gonna play
On December 22 2010 20:56 Askesis wrote: It's not the thieves fault! It's the homeowners's fault for having valuables in the house!
Many of the comments here are indeed going in this direction..."wtf stupid tournament host for making a system that encourages matchfixing"
"wtf stupid pretty girl walking around alone in a skirt in a park in the evening" "wtf stupid rich man walking around alone in an expensive suit with an expensive watch alone on the street"
I seriously have to stop reading this thread, so many comments that make me nearly throw up in the literal way.
On December 22 2010 21:00 ace246 wrote: This never would have happend if Sjow posted his confession, it would all merely be groundless accusation given the lack of strong evidence. I think people are being too harsh. He says he has no evil intentions. You can't just lump him with your average matchfixer. He also has a good point: the injustice of matchfixing is originated from the conflicting interests of the audience.
Matchfixing ruins the sport, period. If there's no guarantee that players are competing honestly then there's no motivation to watch.
And so what if this is a tournament where there won't be an audience or whatever. If these two top players are willing to matchfix even once, then how are you supposed to be sure they won't go ahead and matchfix in a bigger tournament. There's just no way of condoning it. Matchfixing should never be done under any circumstance ever.
On December 22 2010 20:50 Eka wrote: Dont this kind of deal happend in poker alot? Two player going heads up and just shaking hands on splitting the 1st and 2nd price equally between each other and just folding the hand ending the tournament.
TBH, who cares? The tournament format is VERY open to stuff like this, why be surprised that they want to earn money and a computer. Instead of just going away with a few bucks each they both can get alot more by just "tweaking" their play abit.
Im not surprised, nor upset. I blame the tournament, not the players.
No, this thing does not happen in poker regularly. It's strictly prohibited.
Yes it does, to the extent that there's an automated procedure for it in PokerStars:
Deal Making Deal making is allowed in PokerStars tournaments, unless otherwise specified in the tournament lobby. If all remaining players in a tournament agree to split the prize money according to a formula of their choosing, PokerStars will accept this agreement, transfer the funds upon completion of the event, and send transfer receipts to all parties to the agreement. If all players remaining wish to make a deal, please email support@pokerstars.com with the subject line: ‘URGENT Tournament # (insert tournament number) chop’ and a PokerStars staff member will come to the table to ensure a smoothly arranged deal. PokerStars cannot guarantee that a staff member will arrive in a timely fashion although every effort will be made to avoid delays. All players must indicate their willingness to take part in a deal negotiation before PokerStars will pause the tournament clock.
On December 22 2010 20:43 Sorkoas wrote: What sickens me the most is how SjoW refuses to believe he's acting wrong by going through with this. After all discussions at IRC, at rakaka and here at TL he still doesn't understand that he's abusing Inferno Online's promotion by making it much easier to secure a prize which is not supposed to be easy to reach. He's also ignoring the fact that if a third skilled player would show up aiming at winning as many tournaments as possible, he wouldn't compete on the same terms as Sjow and MorroW when they agree on not giving each other a fight for it but instead lose to each other, especiall during later stages of the tournament while they give their best versus a supposed third player. Besides them having a much easier way to getting all those 11 tournament wins...
While I agree what they did/wanted to do is wrong, its dosent effect the other players (3rd)..
Of course it does. Let's say MorroW and SjoW get to play each other in the semi finals then it's a free way to the final for one of them while the players in the other semi final actually have to win to reach the final and compete for the grand prize. This affects all tourneys when the one they decide is going to get to win against the other has a much easier way to win each single tournament.
On December 22 2010 20:43 Sorkoas wrote: What sickens me the most is how SjoW refuses to believe he's acting wrong by going through with this. After all discussions at IRC, at rakaka and here at TL he still doesn't understand that he's abusing Inferno Online's promotion by making it much easier to secure a prize which is not supposed to be easy to reach. He's also ignoring the fact that if a third skilled player would show up aiming at winning as many tournaments as possible, he wouldn't compete on the same terms as Sjow and MorroW when they agree on not giving each other a fight for it but instead lose to each other, especiall during later stages of the tournament while they give their best versus a supposed third player. Besides them having a much easier way to getting all those 11 tournament wins...
While I agree what they did/wanted to do is wrong, its dosent effect the other players (3rd)..
Sure it does - if I wanted to win this thing I would have to defeat both Morrow and Sjow. They themselves don't have to really "beat" each other.
no, because regardless of whether they match fix or not, no one is going to beat them. if they match fix, youre 3rd, if they dont match fix, youre 3rd.
You got it wrong. MorroW and SjoW wouldn't have to be favorites. I meant a thrird player at their level showing up not the third best player who will play. But they are still of course not giving the other players the same chance as they have, as was mentioned above.
On December 22 2010 20:48 alexpnd wrote: You're raping face and helping out a friend? Who wouldn't agree to that? seriously. Are your feelings hurt cause they want to share something ?
No my feelings arent hurt. I just know if I watch a sport I want to know theres 2 teams/persons actually competing.
If theres any doubt about the legitimacy of the sport and the integrity of the competition it has serious effects. You will lose fans. You will lose sponsors. It stunts the growth of the sport.
And yes I am absolutely aware this is "just one tournament and its not like its the GSL" but thats besides the point. If you start condoning it then it can pop up in any context and you have a tradition of rigging the sport.
To talk about helping a friend is completely bizarre. Its in fact not taking it seriously as a sport. Its just something that you and your buddies do then.
I agree with the want of legitimacy in a tournament. However helping a friend is bizarre? Strange world. It's all about priorities. If you have a tournament in the bag why not. I still see no problem. Anyways I'm done here, with any decent tournament this won't be happening. The format will be superior and the rules cold and clean for match fixing.
On December 22 2010 20:50 Eka wrote: Dont this kind of deal happend in poker alot? Two player going heads up and just shaking hands on splitting the 1st and 2nd price equally between each other and just folding the hand ending the tournament.
TBH, who cares? The tournament format is VERY open to stuff like this, why be surprised that they want to earn money and a computer. Instead of just going away with a few bucks each they both can get alot more by just "tweaking" their play abit.
Im not surprised, nor upset. I blame the tournament, not the players.
No, this thing does not happen in poker regularly. It's strictly prohibited.
Wtf are you on about, every online casino/live casino allow people to split prizes if all agree. It's in every rulebook thats its fine.
On December 22 2010 20:43 Sorkoas wrote: What sickens me the most is how SjoW refuses to believe he's acting wrong by going through with this. After all discussions at IRC, at rakaka and here at TL he still doesn't understand that he's abusing Inferno Online's promotion by making it much easier to secure a prize which is not supposed to be easy to reach. He's also ignoring the fact that if a third skilled player would show up aiming at winning as many tournaments as possible, he wouldn't compete on the same terms as Sjow and MorroW when they agree on not giving each other a fight for it but instead lose to each other, especiall during later stages of the tournament while they give their best versus a supposed third player. Besides them having a much easier way to getting all those 11 tournament wins...
While I agree what they did/wanted to do is wrong, its dosent effect the other players (3rd)..
Sure it does - if I wanted to win this thing I would have to defeat both Morrow and Sjow. They themselves don't have to really "beat" each other.
no, because regardless of whether they match fix or not, no one is going to beat them. if they match fix, youre 3rd, if they dont match fix, youre 3rd.
If they do not stick together the chances of a third winning the price is small, if they do the chance is virtually non-existent. Just as an example (Morrow: 5, Sjow:5, new strong player: 8) The "new strong player" needs to beat the sum of both instead of both indivudally. Seems to me to be a very obvious disadvantage to other players. It's clear that lowering the chances of other players was not the intended goal of the cooperation. But this is one more reason why it is absolutely not ok.
EDIT: Ok, i just realized that the overall winner may not be determined that way - if it's only about the 'size' of your prize, i don't see a disadvantage to other players. (Which still does not make it ok because then the organizer is the one which is abused).
But i agree that the tournament format is stupid, and because of it players are encouraged to think about abuse. If they were to dish out a price pool, they should simply give it according to some overall rank. Awarding special prices based on 'exceptional' performance will always invite abuse.(Which does not make the organizers at fault for the players abusing it, but they are the ones who make the abuse possible.)
On December 22 2010 20:56 Askesis wrote: It's not the thieves fault! It's the homeowners's fault for having valuables in the house!
Many of the comments here are indeed going in this direction..."wtf stupid tournament host for making a system that encourages matchfixing"
"wtf stupid pretty girl walking around alone in a skirt in a park in the evening" "wtf stupid rich man walking around alone in an expensive suit with an expensive watch alone on the street"
I seriously have to stop reading this thread, so many comments that make me nearly throw up in the literal way.
If it wouldn't have been so damn hard to find the site and the prices, I'd say the arrangers were borderline on false advertisement. Having a price that is nigh impossible to win (but not advertising about the last part).
A grocery in my town got sued for having a huge sign that said "CHEAPEST IN TOWN!" (with veeeery small print underneat: "On 5 select items each week").
So foul play on both ends. Considering the tournament costs money to enter.
This is cheating, how are people fine with this? I dont care if the prize was a million $, they still cheated by matchfixing. I would say they are on the same level as maphackers, cheating is cheating. Lost all respect for both of them.
How hard is it not to cheat? Goddamn people are stupid
On December 22 2010 20:43 Sorkoas wrote: What sickens me the most is how SjoW refuses to believe he's acting wrong by going through with this. After all discussions at IRC, at rakaka and here at TL he still doesn't understand that he's abusing Inferno Online's promotion by making it much easier to secure a prize which is not supposed to be easy to reach. He's also ignoring the fact that if a third skilled player would show up aiming at winning as many tournaments as possible, he wouldn't compete on the same terms as Sjow and MorroW when they agree on not giving each other a fight for it but instead lose to each other, especiall during later stages of the tournament while they give their best versus a supposed third player. Besides them having a much easier way to getting all those 11 tournament wins...
While I agree what they did/wanted to do is wrong, its dosent effect the other players (3rd)..
Of course it does. Let's say MorroW and SjoW get to play each other in the semi finals then it's a free way to the final for one of them while the players in the other semi final actually have to win to reach the final and compete for the grand prize. This affects all tourneys when the one they decide is going to get to win against the other has a much easier way to win each single tournament.
On December 22 2010 20:43 Sorkoas wrote: What sickens me the most is how SjoW refuses to believe he's acting wrong by going through with this. After all discussions at IRC, at rakaka and here at TL he still doesn't understand that he's abusing Inferno Online's promotion by making it much easier to secure a prize which is not supposed to be easy to reach. He's also ignoring the fact that if a third skilled player would show up aiming at winning as many tournaments as possible, he wouldn't compete on the same terms as Sjow and MorroW when they agree on not giving each other a fight for it but instead lose to each other, especiall during later stages of the tournament while they give their best versus a supposed third player. Besides them having a much easier way to getting all those 11 tournament wins...
While I agree what they did/wanted to do is wrong, its dosent effect the other players (3rd)..
Sure it does - if I wanted to win this thing I would have to defeat both Morrow and Sjow. They themselves don't have to really "beat" each other.
no, because regardless of whether they match fix or not, no one is going to beat them. if they match fix, youre 3rd, if they dont match fix, youre 3rd.
You got it wrong. MorroW and SjoW wouldn't have to be favorites. I meant a thrird player at their level showing up not the third best player who will play. But they are still of course not giving the other players the same chance as they have, as was mentioned above.
On December 22 2010 21:14 Deadlyfish wrote: This is cheating, how are people fine with this? I dont care if the prize was a million $, they still cheated by matchfixing. I would say they are on the same level as maphackers, cheating is cheating. Lost all respect for both of them.
Well, for one thing it never happened. It's a hypothetical match fix they didnt go trough with,
On December 22 2010 17:19 CanucksJC wrote: Meanwhile in Korea, Savior: Hey Luxury, I betted $1,000 on you to lose tonight, so you should throw away the game. Luxury: Only if I get half share. Savior: Ok, deal.
Now this, SjoW: Hey Morrow, one of us gets a computer if we fix matches, so let's do it. Morrow: Only if you throw the games and I get computer. SjoW: Ok, pay me back later.
What's so different? I don't even understand how some people are actually defending these assholes. Competition is a competition, and they tried to fix it, now everyone knows, so they drop the plan. Pathetic.
thanks, already thought that tl.net users lost their brain somewhere
This is kind of amusing because I was there watching Morrow's stream when he asked us if we could read the chat properly. What an inocuous sounding question at the time. I don't get why Sjow would even particpate in such a deal anyway. Isn't Morrow like a notch below Sjow's skill level atm?
I think people are being too harsh. He says he has no evil intentions. You can't just lump him with your average matchfixer. He also has a good point: the injustice of matchfixing is originated from the conflicting interests of the audience.
Intentions means precisely squat. I don't care what they "intended" to do; I care about what they did.
Match fixing is wrong. Whether it's in a game nobody will see, or a game seen by millions across the world. It cheapens and denigrates the game. It turns a legitimate sport into a pile of crap. It is wrong, period.
Wtf are you on about, every online casino/live casino allow people to split prizes if all agree. It's in every rulebook thats its fine.
Then that's fine. Because it's within the rules. Unless the rules specifically allow this, it is cheating.
If both players want to play with maphacks, that doesn't mean they can.
On December 22 2010 20:56 Askesis wrote: It's not the thieves fault! It's the homeowners's fault for having valuables in the house!
Many of the comments here are indeed going in this direction..."wtf stupid tournament host for making a system that encourages matchfixing"
"wtf stupid pretty girl walking around alone in a skirt in a park in the evening" "wtf stupid rich man walking around alone in an expensive suit with an expensive watch alone on the street"
I seriously have to stop reading this thread, so many comments that make me nearly throw up in the literal way.
If it wouldn't have been so damn hard to find the site and the prices, I'd say the arrangers were borderline on false advertisement. Having a price that is nigh impossible to win (but not advertising about the last part).
A grocery in my town got sued for having a huge sign that said "CHEAPEST IN TOWN!" (with veeeery small print underneat: "On 5 select items each week").
So foul play on both ends. Considering the tournament costs money to enter.
Eh? Have you seen any advertisement? And google is your friend: inferno online First link that comes up. First page when you click that has the full setup explained.
EPT
