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United Kingdom16710 Posts
On November 18 2010 17:08 boaecho wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2010 17:05 Nihilnovi wrote:On November 18 2010 16:56 Baarn wrote:
Are you seriously crying over $1.50? Just let it go and watch the free stream next time. If you would take your time to read the OP and not troll you would know it's about the principle and not the actual amount. Well think about it this way. GomTV is a pretty good company. They do their work honestly and listen to their customer's suggestions. It's not like they are some crooked or dishonest organization. Sure, you didn't what you ask for but it will surely help them provide a better service in the future.
This is extremely idealistic. People have complained about the HQ stream lagging and stuttering constantly since the beginning of season 2. GomTV has yet to even acknowledge this issue. What makes you think they're suddenly working on fixing this?
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On November 18 2010 21:23 Telcontar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2010 17:08 boaecho wrote:On November 18 2010 17:05 Nihilnovi wrote:On November 18 2010 16:56 Baarn wrote:
Are you seriously crying over $1.50? Just let it go and watch the free stream next time. If you would take your time to read the OP and not troll you would know it's about the principle and not the actual amount. Well think about it this way. GomTV is a pretty good company. They do their work honestly and listen to their customer's suggestions. It's not like they are some crooked or dishonest organization. Sure, you didn't what you ask for but it will surely help them provide a better service in the future. This is extremely idealistic. People have complained about the HQ stream lagging and stuttering constantly since the beginning of season 2. GomTV has yet to even acknowledge this issue. What makes you think they're suddenly working on fixing this?
As I have already included in this thread...
GOMtv Support [Nov 05, 2010 19:46:18 / 115.93.55.93]
We are currently working on improving Live stream and VOD quality in the European region. We hope the process will improve the connection and the lagging issues. We will do our best to provide you with more better service as soon as we can. We apologize for your inconvenience and thank you for your patience.
This is an obvious form of acknowledgement wouldn't you say?
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
On November 18 2010 21:27 aike wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2010 21:23 Telcontar wrote:On November 18 2010 17:08 boaecho wrote:On November 18 2010 17:05 Nihilnovi wrote:On November 18 2010 16:56 Baarn wrote:
Are you seriously crying over $1.50? Just let it go and watch the free stream next time. If you would take your time to read the OP and not troll you would know it's about the principle and not the actual amount. Well think about it this way. GomTV is a pretty good company. They do their work honestly and listen to their customer's suggestions. It's not like they are some crooked or dishonest organization. Sure, you didn't what you ask for but it will surely help them provide a better service in the future. This is extremely idealistic. People have complained about the HQ stream lagging and stuttering constantly since the beginning of season 2. GomTV has yet to even acknowledge this issue. What makes you think they're suddenly working on fixing this? As I have already included in this thread... Show nested quote +GOMtv Support [Nov 05, 2010 19:46:18 / 115.93.55.93]
We are currently working on improving Live stream and VOD quality in the European region. We hope the process will improve the connection and the lagging issues. We will do our best to provide you with more better service as soon as we can. We apologize for your inconvenience and thank you for your patience. This is an obvious form of acknowledgement wouldn't you say?
Well, my bad for not reading the entire thread. I'm surprised it took them so long to even make a statement about this but better late than never i guess. It's a shame i don't trust them enough to buy a season ticket again (bought for both previous seasons). The one for S2 was a complete waste and while this goes some way in showing their good intetions, i'm not risking my money on a fragile promise.
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I bought season 2, could not watch any HQ stream at all, very depressed that their treat Europe customers this way. I have awesome connection.
Atleast I got to see HQ vods.
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I didn't expect that much feedback. Especially not the amount of comments telling me to suck it up or that it must be my fault somehow. Thanks for the huge number of the positive comments, though. Of course I ran the test stream, which worked just fine. Of course my bandwidth is sufficient for the HD pass or I wouldn't have bothered buying it in the first place.
While it's nice that GomTV acknowledged the issue in general, that doesn't help me. I want my money back (yeah, 1,50€ is spare change for me as well, but this one's a matter of principle), and I won't buy a GSL3 season pass as long as I don't know for sure that it'll be worth it and that I'll get the service I pay for.
One comment here made my jaw just drop to the floor btw.
On November 18 2010 20:03 masterbreti wrote:
... if you want gomtv to get better stuff for streams then let them keep the dollar fifty [...] not only does that go towards buying new stuff for a better watching experince for all, it helps esports and the sc2 tournament scene.
Wow. Just ... wow. That's like going to a restaurant, paying for food you don't receive and being told to be happy with it, because the next customer may benefit from it.
I guess I'll just wait a while longer for any reaction from the GomTV support, they'll probably have a huge amount of work to do with clearing up S2 related issues and organizing S3 stuff. If I get my money back, alright, I know they care. If I don't, I won't buy any season tickets there, easy as that.
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On November 18 2010 20:06 T0fuuu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2010 16:31 Shockk wrote:The GomTV refund policy says: Refund is possible until 1 hour before the actual beginning of the Live stream, only if you do not have any history of using the HQ Live stream service that day. Full refund will be given to those who experience problems in their streaming process for more than 1 hour, due to the problems related with the service provision of GOMtv.net. In other cases the transaction fee will be deducted from the amount of the refund given. So I'm pretty sure I'm eligible for refund No. Im sure "roblems for more than one hour" means if they have problems on their end an example would be the boxer effect or if they ran out room and you couldnt connect. Not if your internet connection cannot sustain the stream at what you would consider satisfactory.
It's not his internet connection, it's GOMtv's routing to Europe. I purchased a season ticket for season 2 and I could watch maybe 25% of it (high estimate) in HQ. I ran the connection test before I bought it and it capped out. But lo and behold after having problems I run it during game hours and I end up getting barely 200kbps to them. While I'm on a 30/8Mbps connection.
The problem is their routing to Europe/bandwith, for sure.
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On November 18 2010 19:53 Leon-bw wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2010 19:37 aike wrote:
Also, you do not fall under their terms. It says you are eligible for a refund if the problem was on their end. And as far as I know it wasn't. I watched teh finals with no stream problems at all. So any problems were with your connection to gom and not gom's streaming. Obviously they have a problem with there output towards Europe... Do understand that bandwith is both for upload and download and that it can be assigned to different lines which themselves are specific per region... I bought a season ticket, couldn't watch any live game in HD while I still can watch other streaming sources in HD without any issues (e.g MLG) As far as you know, how do you explain that if its not on their side ?
Because this is the Internet. And I'm not being flippant about it; that's the explanation.
Between the place where GOM uploads the packets of data containing the image, and the place you download them, is the Internet. How those packets get to you is, for all intents and purposes, entirely random. If there is congestion on those paths, then you will not have consistent streaming, through no fault of GOM's own.
They could be feeding you data at 2GB/sec, and it wouldn't matter, because the problem is with network traffic between them and you.
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Their routing to Europe is garbage.
If they still take money off Europeans for GSL 3 without actually being able to deliver what they're charging for then they're a bunch of crooks.
I certainly won't be paying for another season ticket so I can watch every game in SQ.
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On November 18 2010 21:59 NicolBolas wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2010 19:53 Leon-bw wrote:On November 18 2010 19:37 aike wrote:
Also, you do not fall under their terms. It says you are eligible for a refund if the problem was on their end. And as far as I know it wasn't. I watched teh finals with no stream problems at all. So any problems were with your connection to gom and not gom's streaming. Obviously they have a problem with there output towards Europe... Do understand that bandwith is both for upload and download and that it can be assigned to different lines which themselves are specific per region... I bought a season ticket, couldn't watch any live game in HD while I still can watch other streaming sources in HD without any issues (e.g MLG) As far as you know, how do you explain that if its not on their side ? Because this is the Internet. And I'm not being flippant about it; that's the explanation. Between the place where GOM uploads the packets of data containing the image, and the place you download them, is the Internet. How those packets get to you is, for all intents and purposes, entirely random. If there is congestion on those paths, then you will not have consistent streaming, through no fault of GOM's own. They could be feeding you data at 2GB/sec, and it wouldn't matter, because the problem is with network traffic between them and you.
In the end, if they choose a host with shit routing to Europe thats GomTVs fault. I was unable to watch even the LQ stream and vods this season. MLG, ESL, Youtube, Ustream, Livestream, Blip, Own3d and every other streaming site I've tried work great. Except GomTV.
GOM needs to sign up with a proper CDN provider instead of just getting a couple of servers in the US.
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On November 18 2010 22:19 cuppatea wrote:
Their routing to Europe is garbage.
If they still take money off Europeans for GSL 3 without actually being able to deliver what they're charging for then they're a bunch of crooks.
I certainly won't be paying for another season ticket so I can watch every game in SQ.
Watch the VoDs then, like I did. I am happy to pay every month for it.
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On November 18 2010 19:37 aike wrote:
Just curious. Did you run the stream tests before you purchased the ticket? Because if it doesn't work on there and you bought it anyways it is your fault and not GOM's. If you did the test and it worked fine and then the real stream didn't work then yes you deserve a refund.
*edit*
Also, you do not fall under their terms. It says you are eligible for a refund if the problem was on their end. And as far as I know it wasn't. I watched teh finals with no stream problems at all. So any problems were with your connection to gom and not gom's streaming.
I know you all don't agree with what I said, but he does not qualify for a refund. Again I ask, did you run the stream test before making a purchase? If you didn't run the test then Gom has no need to refund your money, because it would be YOUR FAULT that you wasted your money and not theirs .
They prepared for this by saying "YOU HAVE TO RUN THIS STREAM TEST AND BANDWIDTH TEST TO VERIFY THAT YOU CAN ACTUALLY VIEW THIS STREAM WITHOUT ANY ISSUES" so obviously if you pass the stream test (Which is streaming from the same server) you should have no issues. Nobody in this thread has yet said they have even taken the stream test, let alone pased.
So by your own admission the problem was on your end and not theirs. You couldn't connect to their server because of a firewall on your router or with your ISP or some other issue with your computer. That error is not caused by anything on their end, but by your computer. Don't blame GomTV for not having your computer set up right to allow their program to stream to you.
Example, did you try restarting your computer? Did you do any troubleshooting? Did you check Gom's forums for help with this issue?
You have a 100Mbit Up and 10Mbit down constant internet connection... to your ISP. The speed your ISP tells you isn't the speed you connect to various servers around the world. So your speed from ISP is irrelevant. Did you run the speed test AND the HQ stream test? If you believe the problem is with Gom's European servers and not your ISPs, try using a proxy server in the US and connect to Gom's live stream and see if it works any better
Enough of your silly arguing.
The problem is very much existant, as I can tell from who complains about it here on TL, its mainly people in Germany, Denmark, Sweden and Norway who have the issues, could be all of Europe though, doesnt matter, it's there.
First of all the problem is not local enough to be the users problem, really its most of Europe, not quite the users problem is it? I dont see how any user or ISP is to blame here.
Second, I am one of those that repeatedly have run tests and mailed GOMTV about the results. No reply from them but whatever. The problem occurs durring streaming which means that I often in the first minutes of a stream could get up to 700kbit, enough for the HQ stream, then as ppl joined the stream it would drop to 400-500. I normally also get a good result when the stream is offline. That seems to have changed though as lately I've had sometimes less then 350 while stream is off.
What this practically means is that if you bought a ticket early or preseason you would have a great result as long as it werent streaming and I beleive that a majority didnt buy premium while it was live. There werent any signs saying "You must test your connection WHILE the stream is ON to get the correct result."
I have mailed GOMTV with as much information as I could, test results exact location etc. in order to help them solve the issue. No response, no fix.
I don't know why you want this to be the users problem. Aike, you are sitting more then 3000 miles pretending to be Mr. I-know-it-all and for some reason has some great desire to make it the users problem just because it doesnt occur to you.
Really leave this debate of what you know absolutely nothing and all in all doesnt concern you.
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I payed for season 2, 3 or 4 days latter I sent an email complaining and received a FULL REFUND, no questions asked.
Turns out a week later I rebought it, because I could watch the VODs, even though Stream was terrible for me.
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I'm in Canada and had similar issues with the HQ and SD VODs. It was very annoying.
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As a European I will be paying for GSL Season 3, for the HD vods and for a guaranteed slot on the standard quality stream, but I do begrudge the purchase a little knowing that GOM will not deliver on their HQ streaming service. I would feel too guilty NOT paying for it though, as I have derived multiple hundreds of hours of entertainment from the GSL and understanding that their business model and any efforts to improve the service will rely on paying customers.
At this point I pretty much find it analogous to donating money to day9 in appreciation for his dailies or something.
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On November 18 2010 19:37 aike wrote:
Just curious. Did you run the stream tests before you purchased the ticket? Because if it doesn't work on there and you bought it anyways it is your fault and not GOM's. If you did the test and it worked fine and then the real stream didn't work then yes you deserve a refund.
The problem with this is for me:
Take the test during off hours: 1577kbit/s.
Take the test during a stream: 240kbit/s.
When you consider purchasing - when do you take the test? Obviously before the tournament starts -> off hour.
On November 18 2010 19:46 waterglen wrote:
Even if GOM doesn't give you your dollar fifty back you shouldn't get pissed off at them. They are a great company running a great tournament and are constantly trying to improve their service. So far my experience with GOM has been awesome.
GomTV wrote on their forum (on 19th October):
"We are constantly checking the streams as the games are being broadcasted. Currently we are not having any problems with the streams. Our server is located in the US so the stream may lag due to your location and network connection. If you can not watch all of our live stream broadcast please consider watching our VODs. We will upload the VODs as soon as possible. We are very sorry for your inconvenience and we will keep on looking into this problem. Thank you."
The problems exist since S1 (S1 was actually better on non hype days, because they got their US servers for S2). Over a month ago they said they will keep looking into this problem.
Has anything changed?
Yes, they now lock & move threads containing this problem to their "hidden" Q&A forum (can you find it via navigating? http://www.gomtv.net/qna/).
I have the impression they want to sweep the problems under the rug. I - as an EU user - dont see a "great company which constantly tries to improve its service". Sure, as a US person I'd probably see it a bit different, but I think you can understand that the EU users are disappointed.
I bought S1 + S2 ticket. I will wait with the S3 one until someone can confirm it's working for EU.
When I have to watch SQ I honestly dont need to pay.
@Airship:
There's no guaranteed slot on the SQ stream. I received "User limit reached" messages.
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It as your responsibility to do research and know that their streaming service is absolute shit for Europe. In fact, it's usually posted all over the place on their forum, TL, and I have even seen complaints on the reddit board.
I don't even know why you expect a refund. Their stream worked, and in no place does it say it's guaranteed to work for you in real-time.
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On November 18 2010 23:25 Fa1nT wrote:
It as your responsibility to do research and know that their streaming service is absolute shit for Europe. In fact, it's usually posted all over the place on their forum, reddit, and I have even seen complaints on the reddit board.
I don't even know why you expect a refund. Their stream worked, and in no place does it say it's guaranteed to work for you in real-time.
... Seriously? I have no words for such an amount of arrogance. If you have nothing to contribute to this topic, then please don't troll.
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As a recommendation for the EU people with crappy streams: The "SQ Test" stream worked flawless for me throughout the entire season 2. Whatever it is they're testing, it seems to be working.
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On November 18 2010 23:45 Shockk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2010 23:25 Fa1nT wrote:
It as your responsibility to do research and know that their streaming service is absolute shit for Europe. In fact, it's usually posted all over the place on their forum, reddit, and I have even seen complaints on the reddit board.
I don't even know why you expect a refund. Their stream worked, and in no place does it say it's guaranteed to work for you in real-time. ... Seriously? I have no words for such an amount of arrogance. If you have nothing to contribute to this topic, then please don't troll.
You are complaining that a high quality stream is not loading fast enough (but is still working, no?) for you when you are on the other side of the world?
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On November 18 2010 20:24 aike wrote:
They prepared for this by saying "YOU HAVE TO RUN THIS STREAM TEST AND BANDWIDTH TEST TO VERIFY THAT YOU CAN ACTUALLY VIEW THIS STREAM WITHOUT ANY ISSUES" so obviously if you pass the stream test (Which is streaming from the same server) you should have no issues. Nobody in this thread has yet said they have even taken the stream test, let alone pased.
That stream test it to make sure you have enough throughput period, this does NOT account for heavy loads on the service (ie. when games are being played), and for all we know, may be run through a server completely seperate from those hosting the stream. This test is not a reliable representation of what to expect during a stream, just that you have enough throughput to view an HD stream. In other words just because the test works for customer x doesn't mean it's going to work well for customer x when thousands of people are connecting to stream servers worldwide.
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EPT
