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Fraidnot, what you say contradicts what that Gomtv guy is saying.
Fact is Kespa didn't ban Gomtv from using their players for several seasons/tournaments. Only some of the teams did. I actually remember that there was news that Kespa would actually authorize the league officially. Then Blizzard suddenly appeared all over Gomtv's league and of course that triggered a reaction. I don't know if at that point the teams that still participated also pulled all by themselves or if they were forced by Blizzard. Fact is no player was ever punished from playing in a Gomtv league.
Why should Blizzard be allowed to use Gom get to undermine Kespa with expensive Kespa-funded players?
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On November 14 2010 22:00 Fraidnot wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2010 21:38 IntoTheEmo wrote:
Wow, every post in this thread keeps making bigger and bigger assumptions of evil stuff that KeSPA has done. And most of this has been discussed before, are people too busy watching GSL to follow what has been said around the forums?
Accusing KeSPA of shutting down GOM classic when they let their players play for 4 seasons, really.... Well it looks like you haven't followed it either, there were 3 seasons not 4, unless you count the invitational(which clearly wasn't a season). And it's been said before that all 7 teams backed off after GOM didn't pay kespa for broadcasting reasons. When lilsusie asked about season 4 she was told that Blizzard was negotiating with Kespa about it, implying that Kespa was somehow involved with the processes and not just the teams deciding their players couldn't manage the busy schedules. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=101934¤tpage=20(half way down page)
Yeah I counted GSI in it. Seemed pretty big of an event to me. Anyway I don't see anything of the sort that you are implying, just that lilsusie stated that KeSPA was involved in the negotiations (why wouldn't they be, they represent BW esports and the players). If KeSPA didn't like GOM in the first place, they would not have allowed the players to play at all - also in Blizzcon and WCG amongst other things.
What I did find though, on the next page... a link to http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=104250!!!
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feel like kespa is a actually a gangster lol hope this matter get solved asap.
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Wow, That really opened my eyes, I always figured it was Blizzard being the bully, but it actually seems like Kespa is being unreasonable.
Thanks for the translation.
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Great post. Cleared out alot of stuff I was confused about.
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Wow, to the OP, you provided some very interesting information. I had no idea how many underhanded things KeSPA has tried. KeSPA and the people that think they are in the right should be ashamed, now that so much is known about the wrong they've attempt to do.
The shutting down of GOM classic, the wiping of Nada's record, the hiring of fake journalist, the banning of programmers from playing SC2 are inexcusable.
It seems Blizzard went out of their way to help the players and seek the input of Koreans. They unveiled the game in Korea and over the development process was always seeking feedback from professional players. The Blizzard CEO even made a special trip to Korea to talk with anyone in hopes of resolving the situation. KeSPA responded by warning people to not go to Mike Morhaime hotel room, presumably through threats.
KeSPA attempts to control who can be professional gamers, and then threatens and intimidates these people by preventing them from speaking up or showing interest in other games or by wiping records. Oh and don't forget they biggest game fixing scandal of all time happened with their players under their watch.
Blizzard helps support open tournaments, like the GSL, where anyone can show up and play, and if they're good enough and work their way through qualifiers they can end up on TV or on an professionally casted Internet stream.
At this point any KeSPA supporters still left should feel ashamed.
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I've been around TL since 2003, and I remember there being nothing but hate for KeSPA during those past 7 years up until just recently. There was always minimal support for KeSPA in the foreign community as far as I could tell, and I don't see what has happened in the past year that could have changed that.
If people have forgotten what TL used to think about KeSPA, go back and read this thread (about GOM Classic S4 being canceled due to KeSPA); http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=101934
Here's a selection of post from the first few pages;
On September 14 2009 17:24 Chrispy wrote:
Well then.
I think I speak for the entirety of Foreign Broodwar fans when I say...
Fuck you, Kespa!
On September 14 2009 18:04 SpiritWolf wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2009 17:52 FabledIntegral wrote:On September 14 2009 17:40 SpiritWolf wrote:
The blacklisting of gom really doesn't surprise me. Gom is supported by blizzard. Kespa doesn't want blizzard to encroach on their market so they are discouraging players from doing gom. When SC2 comes out kespa will get owned and back down or gom will become the main source for sc2. GOM decided not to cooperate with Kepsa before Blizzard even got involved from what I'm aware. Blizzard supported GOM in season 3, after a lot of teams decided not to participate. True, but before gom wasnt large enough to be a real threat. With blizzards backing and starcraft 2 on the horizon gom has the potential to expand massively. kespa is putting alot of pressure on teams to not compete in gom in order to kill it before it can hurt their korean esports monopoly.
On September 14 2009 18:33 Alethios wrote:
Fuck KeSPA. I haven't heard anything positive about this idiots in so long. Seems every time I look they're disqualifying another gamer for coughing too loudly.
I don't care whether or not they're fighting to keep themselves relevant or not. Companies have the right to increase their profit margins by dubious practices, and we have the right not to buy their products. Seriously, fuck them.
Blizzard should release a SC patch specifically aimed to fuck these wankers.
On September 14 2009 18:38 fearus wrote:
Blizzard should flex its legal muscele against Kespa.
On September 14 2009 18:51 Matoo- wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2009 18:29 ZeitgeistMovie wrote:
Look, no one is in the "wrong" here. All parties are fighting for their interests. I wish people would stop being ignorant fools and stop blaming KeSPA. Every esthablishment will fight to keep themselves relevant. Nothing one is to blame here, maybe except the system because this is how the system works. This is just business/politics, and innocent people will suffer along the way. That's just the reality of it all. No one has all the information on the matter so picking sides is just jumping the gun and really useless. Just see how things play out and hope Esports survive in Korea, and grow everywhere else. The reason why many people hate KeSPA is that, beyond being just another greedy corporation, it was supposed to be promoting korean e-sports in general, and doing stuff like helping out new leagues, defending players' rights etc - but in reality KeSPA is doing the exact opposite.
These quotes might be out if context, but still this seemed to be the general opinion about KeSPA a little over a year ago. While this may not be relevant to the current discussion, I'm just wondering if people could point out what's changed about KeSPA now. It' still the same organization that people used to hate. Have people forgotten all their their past "deeds"? Before SC2, KeSPA was the devil, has anything happened to change that? Sure, some might not like Blizzard, but I don't so how KeSPA was ever any better. I'm not trying to argue that KeSPA is good or bad, I'm just curious as to WHY people's opinion have swung.
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If Blizzard wasn't trying as hard as possible to piss off their fans with the money-grubbing shenanigans they've been pulling with the release of SC2, it would be hard to imagine anyone rooting for Kespa. But as it is, many people see Kespa as the lesser of 2 evils.
Imagine that Blizzard decided to pursue their current line of action immediately after the cancellation of GOMTV Classic 3, I'm sure TL would be supporting Blizzard almost unanimously. But instead, their legal moves against Kespa now looks like an attempt to kill SC:BW.
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Dominican Republic913 Posts
wow i really understand now very well whats the deal with kespa and blizzard, this post explain in fewpoints something i could not get right by my me bc my english s...
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On November 14 2010 14:48 doothegee wrote:
Koreans love to hate on anything that is Korean (e.g. Kespa) and love to worship anything that's foreign (Blizzard). I wouldn't be too surprised by any of this.
Really? I was under the impression that they were an extremely megalomaniac people and fiercely proud of themselves esp. in relation to SC... Maybe you know more than I do about this... though I seriously doubt the veracity of your statements.
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Isn't KeSPA supposed to be a non-profit organisation?
I heard it, somewhere...
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On November 14 2010 14:54 CanucksJC wrote:
Right now, on every article on fomos, there's flame wars going on between scbw fans and sc2 fans.
Also, it's the nature of Koreans. We're known to be furious keyboard warriors and like to participate in discussions that may lead to people killing each other or themselves. We love to rip on others that we don't agree with. Obviously, scbw fans are not happy with the release of sc2. Their popular opinion is that sc2 will die and all the success is so far is credited to SlayerSBoxeR and NaDa, while the sc2 fans like to make fun of scbw by calling them illegal gamers. Pretty funny to observe actually.
Pretty sad and extremely counter-productive imo. Also ANYONE who cuts Nada is EVIL to me. Am really surprised that they wud go against one of their most manner players without whom BW would be a pale ghost of what it is. To me atleast.
Nada got me and my friends interested in the professional BW scene and I cant see any reason to support Kespa after this. This is the straw that breaks the camels back for me. I'm officially not going to follow Proleague and MSL this year as a small sign of protest.
P.S: I know Kespa doesn't care what I do. So dont reply and tell me something I already know thanks.
P.P.S:I'll prob still follow the battle-reports..Heh..
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On November 14 2010 14:55 mustache wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2010 14:46 LG)Sabbath wrote:do soccer players pay the soccer ball manufacturers for a match isn't this actually a good argument though? no it isnt, the ball is to the keyboard as the game is to the stadium. EDIT: double beat -_-
not to mention that the players might not pay for the balls... but someone is.... usually the club.
Also someone is paying the Football Association for the right to broadcast since they own the rights, in this case blizzard are the FA.
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On November 14 2010 15:08 keV. wrote:
I'm glad someone posted this, it will give new users who don't know what the hell they are talking about some context, on both sides.
Personally I've always been 100 percent behind gom/blizz since KeSPA fucked up the GOM classic.
Actually I found this to be a pretty one-sided recap of KeSPA's dealings, which is pretty accurate when you get rid of the author's personal bias. There is a lot of over exaggeration as well. Karma is definitely a bitch.
This thread is definitely in the wrong section though.
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On November 14 2010 14:46 LG)Sabbath wrote:isn't this actually a good argument though?
In football (soccer) there are 8 people who says what may and what may not be done by fifa uefa etc.
4 of those people are from schotland due to the fact that they created football.
a majority of those 8 people have to agree on every rule change and great tournament etc.
So the creators of football are in a way still the owners of the game.
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I don't believe Blizzard is trying to kill off BW. I believe that Blizzard is trying to secure the future of the SC2 franchise going forward. There is not a lot of money changing hands (corporately speaking) in esports IP licensing. There is, however, a lot of future revenue forcasting, and "final say" going on, and who has it.
If kespa can successfuly take total control of BW in Korea, what's to say they won't take control of SC2 as well? Since Blizzard doesn't make much money from battle.net as a continuous revenue stream, the only money they make will be from expansions. If kespa can derail the SC2 scene, or marginalize it, in Korea, that makes a big, big difference in the Blizzard's income statement for the future. Not only that, but Blizz should have the final say in a lot of decisions that have to do with broadcasting any of their games. That in itself is a moral rule. Like not exploit teenagers so old men in suits can live lavishly in a "not for profit" wrapper.
Does anyone else see the raw emotion of the players in the GSL? As a spectator, it trumps by far anything i've ever seen in proleague. In every round you have jubilation of winning and the sting of loss evident on screen without even understanding Korean. I believe this is because the players can really be who they are, and not puppets of a old boy's corporation.
Blizzard may not always look smart, but I do believe they have the global player base's best interests at heart.
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THIS IS HUUUGE!
Kespa sure sounds greedy, I thought they were the 'good' guys :/
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Another note to why Kespa will fail eventually is their business model. They basically rely on raping MBC and OGN and sponsorships without creating hardly any recurring revenue. It was said basically in another milkis article that the sponsorships don't get a lot of patronage from progaming fans anyhow.
The model of GSL and MLG, although not perfect, creates a much more sustainable income for executives to look at and say, "yes this is working, let's expand it." The kespa officials are either too short sighted, stubborn, or ignorant to realize the greatest source of revenue is a global viewer base, who now as young professional adults can afford to sub monthly events.
If Blizzard or Gomtv wants to really stick it to Kespa, they'll form a players union. When there are certain guaranteed living conditions/rules in place, along with these outrageous prize pools, and the possibility of a much longer career, it would take an intensly pro BW die hard to stick to the kespa model then, regardless of how fewer apm(lol) SC2 takes.
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Does anyone else see the raw emotion of the players in the GSL? As a spectator, it trumps by far anything i've ever seen in proleague. In every round you have jubilation of winning and the sting of loss evident on screen without even understanding Korean. I believe this is because the players can really be who they are, and not puppets of a old boy's corporation.
You are a lier today Leta und Flash thumbs down was pretty funny. Stork Jaedong finals, while Jaedong loosing he has this baby face no expression of emotions? lol
There are tons of Stories in the proleague where Player express their emotion. Seriesly dont write retarded stuff.
P.S: I know Kespa doesn't care what I do. So dont reply and tell me something I already know thanks.
Well it is dumb if you have fun to watch Proleague. I dont really know what you want accomplish with that, you neither harm Kespa with or help your beloved Nada.
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On November 14 2010 22:07 Gonodactylus wrote:
Why should Blizzard be allowed to use Gom get to undermine Kespa with expensive Kespa-funded players?
And then there is question why KeSPA should have all rights to Blizzard games.
On November 14 2010 23:14 TymerA wrote:
Isn't KeSPA supposed to be a non-profit organisation?
I heard it, somewhere...
It might. But the fact is that organizations behind it (sponsors, teams) do make profit
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EPT
