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Diamond i'd like to state that I think I know what that means about custom maps like iCCup maps being " too complicated " ,or them wanting easy maps only. I remember in the beta of SC2 or maybe even before the beta, Blizzard talking about the maps, they said I believe in one of the battle reports that they designed the maps all 'smaller ' than in BroodWar because they want more fast paced games, they want games to not last to long, like on average I think they said a normal game would last 15-20 minutes.
Unfortunatly I think this is one of Blizzard's goals with they're small maps. Even a considerably large map like shakuras plateau can have relatively rush short distances, where for instance in TvZ, I still think it's pretty risky to hatch before pool vs terran's who will send alot of SCVS, and just 2/3rax before orbital. So this limits the amount of game play options for each race.
Although i'm just bassically trying to sum up the reason why I think they don't use ICCup / other Custom maps, the too complicated part comes from the fact that it would make gameplay more dynamic ( and alot more like BroodWar, if you've ever played these iCCup maps, it really gives you that awesome feeling playing on the map, really SO similar to BW)
The reason I think all the SC2 maps could be considered "Easy" by them is because it's pretty simple to all in on these maps, while on the iCCup maps, you are going to have to try ALOT harder to succeed with some gimmicky all in build, Why? because I think these maps are more balanced.
P.S. signing that thread on Bnet about custom maps you made Diamond, nice thread.
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On December 01 2010 09:51 GGzerG wrote:
Diamond i'd like to state that I think I know what that means about custom maps like iCCup maps being " too complicated " ,or them wanting easy maps only. I remember in the beta of SC2 or maybe even before the beta, Blizzard talking about the maps, they said I believe in one of the battle reports that they designed the maps all 'smaller ' than in BroodWar because they want more fast paced games, they want games to not last to long, like on average I think they said a normal game would last 15-20 minutes.
Unfortunatly I think this is one of Blizzard's goals with they're small maps. Even a considerably large map like shakuras plateau can have relatively rush short distances, where for instance in TvZ, I still think it's pretty risky to hatch before pool vs terran's who will send alot of SCVS, and just 2/3rax before orbital. So this limits the amount of game play options for each race.
Although i'm just bassically trying to sum up the reason why I think they don't use ICCup / other Custom maps, the too complicated part comes from the fact that it would make gameplay more dynamic ( and alot more like BroodWar, if you've ever played these iCCup maps, it really gives you that awesome feeling playing on the map, really SO similar to BW)
The reason I think all the SC2 maps could be considered "Easy" by them is because it's pretty simple to all in on these maps, while on the iCCup maps, you are going to have to try ALOT harder to succeed with some gimmicky all in build, Why? because I think these maps are more balanced.
P.S. signing that thread on Bnet about custom maps you made Diamond, nice thread.
This is very true but I think maybe they are having a HuK like tunnel vision when it comes to our maps. Not all of them are macro based BW remakes. Sungsu Crossing and Starlight Breaker are two maps in this months pool that are very small, same with Obsidian Inferno. We have a great vareity, so while excuses like that may have cut it before when our mappool was mainly very large macro maps, it does not hold water any more.
Thank you for the support everyone! That thread is at 28 pages now with no blue response or a close (since I found out after I posted it that the name was against the rules), they have to break eventually.
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Smaller maps in general can be very good. But the problem with Blizzard's small maps are, that some of them are not small but ridiculous tiny and others are just imbalanced.
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I think if you remove iCCup from the map name and creator Blizzard might some day include them in the ladder pool.
Or they will just keep making fag maps by themselves and continue to screw us like they are doing rightnow.
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How do you play the Iccup maps? Do I just go into Custom Games or what?
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<3 iccup team. the maps look pretty nice and pretty refined in terms of balance and design (at least the ones i played on. at first when i saw them i was pretty skeptical, but after seeing a game on devotion, everything changed =].
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Diamond im curious what is your favorite or favorites if you cant pick one Iccup map?
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I've been playing the iCCup maps quite a bit and they're really good. Blizzard tries to take risks and add gimmicks to each of their maps, and produces a range of good maps and poor maps. iCCup takes Blizzard's successful ideas and incorporates them into their maps. That way you have a whole bunch of balanced maps that you can play on rather than just the very few. My favorite ones are sanshorn mists, neo river point, and matchpoint.
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I thought I read something around Blizzcon that they knew the maps were an issue, but they wanted to keep them as-is for balancing reasons. Which does kinda make sense, limiting variables will make balance analysis more accurate. And to be fair, they've done a good job thus far...imbalances haven't gone past 20% in pretty much any measure you choose. On the other hand, because maps themselves are an important element of balance, that can throw stuff out of whack. GSL3 is a great example, with a ton of zergs qualifing partly because of the Zerg-friendly map pool, and subsequently tanking in the actual season from getting anti-zerg maps.
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On December 01 2010 12:05 RoboBob wrote:
I thought I read something around Blizzcon that they knew the maps were an issue, but they wanted to keep them as-is for balancing reasons. Which does kinda make sense, limiting variables will make balance analysis more accurate. And to be fair, they've done a good job thus far...imbalances haven't gone past 20% in pretty much any measure you choose. On the other hand, because maps themselves are an important element of balance, that can throw stuff out of whack. GSL3 is a great example, with a ton of zergs qualifing partly because of the Zerg-friendly map pool, and subsequently tanking in the actual season from getting anti-zerg maps.
So you balance the game based on bad maps? Seems sort of counter intuitive to me....
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I really wish more people would play these maps with me, or them to be integrated into the ladder.
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Blizzard just doesn't want a 3rd party to make maps for them. Think how it would look that blizzard had to get help for their own game. But hopefully they will see past that.
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i signed the blizz thread a while ago.
i'll voice my support for iccup maps.
they are fantastic!
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I don't play them. I would, but half the time I'm playing custom games I'm playing with random people, and it's impossible to find a random person to join an iCCup game. I wish their custom game lobby wasn't to terrible.
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We love the iCCup maps here in eP :D... I'd love to see enigma, valhalla, and sungsu crossing in the ladder pool 
I'm still playing through a few of the iccup maps too so I might be missing some - although tbh the brood war ports are pretty much universally awful (including temple >.>), no offense.
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I play them with friends almost exclusively over Blizzard maps. They're just more varied, and we get enough of Blizzard maps on the ladder. One of the greatest aspects of brood war was the diverse and dynamic map pool. I really hope Blizzard includes some of them in the ladder pool 
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Edit: nvm can a mod delete this post plx
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
I don't play any of them because I don't really like them. Except superouman's maps - he's made a few good ones.
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@Diamond: Is there any chances that you guys contacted Blizzard about the iccup map? If so, do you guys have any copyright problem re-making these maps? I believe that Korean maps in BW are copyrighted to Kespa which no way in hell they will let Blizzard use these maps.
I guess you next big things is a map making company which contracted with Blizzard to make maps for ladder in SC2. If thats true, I'm so so so grateful :D.
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EPT
